Podcast Episode Summary
Podcast: All Of It (WNYC)
Host: Alison Stewart
Guest: Erica Hauser, Author of The Age of Deer: Trouble and Kinship with Our Wildest Neighbors
Air Date: January 11, 2024
Episode Focus: Exploring humanity’s complex, evolving relationship with deer, drawing on history, myth, culture, conservation, and lived experiences rooted in Erica Hauser’s acclaimed new book.
Overview
This episode dives into The Age of Deer, Erica Hauser’s deep exploration of the fraught, fascinating, and enduring relationship between humans and deer. Alison Stewart guides a conversation that weaves together personal stories, scientific inquiry, cultural touchstones (from cave paintings to Bambi), ecological realities, and modern day urban deer encounters. The episode invites listener stories and features insight into how deer have become both beloved and beleaguered participants in our lived environments.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. Personal Connections and Early Memories
- Erica Hauser’s earliest memory with deer involved exposure to rural hunting culture outside Pittsburgh. She recalls witnessing a friend’s father returning from the woods with a deer, describing it as “a pretty vivid sight” that has stuck with her since childhood.
- “It's something I can still see in my mind's eye.” (04:10, Erica Hauser)
- The catalyst for writing the book came gradually as Erica pondered the blurry lines between “nature” and humanity—realizing deer are a powerful lens to explore these entanglements.
- “I wanted to...use them as a lens to look at our connection to the natural world.” (05:30, Erica Hauser)
2. Deer Across History, Myth, and Cultures
- Hauser describes deer as one of the “signal species of our time," present in both wild and urban landscapes (01:46, Alison Stewart quoting Hauser’s book).
- Deer have profound mythological and utilitarian importance for humans: from cave paintings (as far back as Lascaux and Altamira, tens of thousands of years ago) to their centrality in subsistence and storytelling.
- “There's just this really ancient relationship that we have with them that has to do with receiving their gifts, you know, which happens through hunting.” (12:42, Erica Hauser)
- “Hunting is kind of the psychological thing that gets humans...We need to find mythologies and stories to contain that experience of killing a large animal.” (13:21, Erica Hauser)
- Hauser’s research led her to unexpected experiences, including observing the 800-year-old Abbotts Bromley Horn Dance in England, where “dancers wear reindeer antlers on their head...asking for a successful hunt.” (06:55, Erica Hauser)
3. The Bambi Effect: Culture, Sentiment, and Stigma
- Listener Sally recalls seeing Bambi as her first film and being traumatized; Alison and Erica use this to discuss the movie’s outsized impact on American attitudes toward deer and hunting.
- Hauser notes that even though Bambi is nearly 100 years old, it still shapes perceptions—particularly casting hunters as villains (“Bambi killer”) and amplifying sentimentality about deer.
- “It’s just amazing how many people have similar stories....Ever since then there’s been a sense...that hunters are evil and cruel.” (11:05, Erica Hauser)
- “Interesting because Bambi doesn’t die in the film—this is the baggage we carry from that movie.” (12:19, Erica Hauser)
4. Urban and Suburban Deer: Adaptation, Conflict, and Kinship
- Callers and the host reflect on seeing deer in highly urban areas, including New York City (e.g., City Island, Port Townsend, Washington), underlining how deer populations are increasingly shifting from wild landscapes to suburbs and cities.
- Hauser shares that deer numbers are declining in wilderness but thriving around humans—leading to new forms of conflict (e.g., vehicle collisions, garden damage) and frequent culling.
- “The balance of deer populations is shifting to human spaces...It leads to conflict.” (17:26, Erica Hauser)
- Urban adaptation is exemplified by a City Island resident who witnessed the rescue (and likely release) of a young deer that swam to the island (14:46, Caller Carol).
5. Animal Intelligence, Empathy, and Misunderstood Behavior
- A caller describes her special sense of “connection” with deer, which approach her and her dog peacefully. Hauser notes the modern trend toward recognizing animal intelligence and non-hierarchical interspecies relationships.
- “There’s a less hierarchical relationship maybe between humans and other species...we all have our own kinds of intelligence.” (23:20, Erica Hauser)
- Hauser debunks the myth that solitary fawns are abandoned, emphasizing education around deer behavior:
- "Please don't pick up fawns if you see them alone. The mother will come back...There is just something about them that fires up the parental instinct.” (19:06, Erica Hauser)
6. Conservation History: Near Extinction and Recovery
- Deer nearly went extinct in North America around the early 1900s, primarily due to overhunting and habitat loss from trade and Manifest Destiny expansion.
- “By the turn of the 20th century...their populations really did have this very sharp decline...It’s a sad episode in our history that we've largely forgotten.” (25:23, Erica Hauser)
- The turnaround came with the birth of the conservation movement, led notably by hunters like Teddy Roosevelt; reintroduction efforts led to today’s perceived overpopulation in many areas.
7. Overpopulation: Biological vs. Cultural Carrying Capacity
- Hauser explains the concepts:
- Biological Carrying Capacity: How many deer the environment can sustain ecologically (e.g., forest regeneration, habitat impact).
- Cultural Carrying Capacity: How many deer people are willing to tolerate (linked to collisions, Lyme disease, landscaping).
- “There are two measures...the cultural carrying capacity tends to be lower than the biological...Usually where you get into conversations about, 'We need to reduce the population.'” (27:39, Erica Hauser)
- Measuring deer populations and setting policy is complex and sometimes controversial—even among scientists.
Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments
On why humans are drawn to deer:
"Watching deer, we can see a picture of what we might be like if we were wild."
— Alison Stewart quoting Hauser’s book (01:46)
On ancient deer depictions:
“Those works of art really express just such a profound and ancient connection between humans and animals.”
— Erica Hauser (12:42)
On Bambi and public sentiment:
"It’s a trauma...the community of sportsmen saw it as a real PR problem for them...Ever since then there’s been a sense that hunters are evil and cruel."
— Erica Hauser (11:05)
On urban deer adaptation:
"Deer are becoming a more urban species...populations in suburbs and cities are thriving...the balance of deer populations is shifting to human spaces."
— Erica Hauser (17:26)
On helping fawns:
"Please don't pick up fawns if you see them alone...The mother will come back...There is just something about them that fires up the parental instinct."
— Erica Hauser (19:06)
On humans and animal intelligence:
“There’s a less hierarchical relationship maybe between humans and other species...we all have our own kinds of intelligence.”
— Erica Hauser (23:20)
On measuring overpopulation:
“There are two measures...Cultural carrying capacity [is] how many dear people can tolerate, and biological is the environment's limit. Usually, the cultural limit is lower.”
— Erica Hauser (27:39)
Important Timestamps
- 01:46 — Alison Stewart’s introduction and setup of deer’s imprint in human culture
- 04:10 — Erica Hauser’s earliest memory of deer and rural hunting exposure
- 06:55 — Hauser’s journey to England for the Abbotts Bromley Horn Dance
- 08:28 — Listener Sally’s Bambi trauma and urban deer stories
- 11:05 — Discussion of Bambi’s impact on public attitudes and hunters
- 12:42 — Ancient cave art and our enduring relationship with deer
- 14:46 — Urban deer rescue story from City Island, Bronx
- 17:26 — Urban adaptation, conflict, and deer management challenges
- 19:06 — PSA: Don’t interfere with fawns left alone
- 21:37 — Listener Dawn’s “deer whisperer” experience, animal intelligence
- 25:23 — Historical near-extinction and recovery of deer populations
- 27:39 — Ecological vs. cultural carrying capacity in deer management
Conclusion
The Age of Deer episode offers a nuanced, multidimensional look at how humans and deer shape one another—sometimes in harmony, sometimes in conflict. Through rigor, reflection, and a touch of awe, Hauser and Stewart unravel how these animals have moved from ancient art to our city sidewalks, from sustenance to symbolism, and from near extinction to notable neighbors. Listeners are left with a deepened appreciation for deer as both trouble and kin—“one of the largest wild animals we still live with in any widespread way.”