The Art of the SNL Portrait

Summary

Podcast Summary: All Of It – "The Art of the SNL Portrait"

Episode Details:

• Title: The Art of the SNL Portrait
• Host: Alison Stewart
• Guest: Mary Ellen Matthews, Photographer
• Release Date: March 31, 2025

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of All Of It hosted by Alison Stewart, Mary Ellen Matthews, the esteemed photographer behind the iconic portraits seen on Saturday Night Live (SNL), joins the conversation to discuss her latest endeavor—a photography book titled The Art of the SNL Portrait. The discussion delves into the nuances of capturing the essence of celebrities, the creative process behind the scenes of a legendary show, and the evolution of photography in the digital age.

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Mary Ellen Matthews: A Journey into Photography

Mary Ellen Matthews shares her lifelong passion for photography, rooted in her childhood experiences. She credits her father’s amateur hobbyist pursuits for instilling a love for the craft.

Mary Ellen Matthews (03:03): "My dad was an amateur hobbyist. We had a darkroom at home and photography equipment around, photography books and, you know, so it was kind of in my DNA and I always just wanted to be in that world."

Her journey transitioned from still life to portraiture, eventually leading her to work on film sets and within the music industry as a publicist and photographer.

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Creating The Art of the SNL Portrait

Alison Stewart introduces Matthews' new book, highlighting its comprehensive collection of over 270 stunning images curated from thousands captured over 25 years on SNL.

Alison Stewart (02:05): "It's so exciting when you read this book because it's 272 pictures. They're gorgeous."

Matthews discusses the meticulous selection process, aided by her talented team, to distill approximately 4,000 photographs down to the book’s curated collection.

Mary Ellen Matthews (02:26): "I had a really good team around me... It was so hard in the beginning. But then it kind of showed itself that the Flow showed itself to us."

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Capturing the Essence of New York

A significant theme in Matthews' work is encapsulating the "essence of New York." She interprets this as embodying a sense of "cool," blended with edginess and intelligence.

Mary Ellen Matthews (07:10): "I think it's a sense of cool. That's what I think it is. You know, there's an edginess, there's an intelligence, there's intellectual, if I can make that word. Sure, sure. Why not?"

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Creative Process and Techniques

Matthews elaborates on her creative workflow, emphasizing the importance of fresh perspectives despite the repetitive nature of her work.

Mary Ellen Matthews (08:30): "I really like to keep it fresh and not do the same thing over and over again."

She discusses integrating new techniques and drawing inspiration from the vast creative content available on platforms like Instagram.

Mary Ellen Matthews (08:30): "There is so much out there now with Instagram and social media. So you are seeing so much talent and so much creativity..."

Color plays a pivotal role in her portraits, especially considering their primary display mediums—televisions and computer screens.

Mary Ellen Matthews (10:30): "It's such a gift, I guess, to have luminosity behind these images because they're on televisions and computer screens."

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Adapting During COVID-19

The COVID-19 pandemic presented unique challenges, prompting Matthews to adapt by conducting remote photoshoots. She creatively utilized household items and the support of friends to maintain the show's visual spirit during lockdowns.

Mary Ellen Matthews (16:02): "... got out the condiments and did a Jackson Pollock type thing. And my dog played a big part, Daphne."

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Iconic Portraits and Collaborations

Matthews recounts memorable experiences photographing legendary figures like Paul McCartney and Mick Jagger, highlighting the blend of professionalism and personal connection necessary for such high-profile shoots.

Mary Ellen Matthews (17:03): "I have to. I've had to do it. And it's so hard. I'm sure you know, too."

Her collaboration with comedian John Mulaney is particularly noteworthy, showcasing a dynamic and creative partnership that enhances the vibrancy of the portraits.

Mary Ellen Matthews (13:12): "He's such a collaborator. He's so enthusiastic and excited about this part of the show, doing our photos together."

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Welcoming the Next Generation

Emphasizing the importance of evolving with new talent, Matthews expresses admiration for young performers who bring fresh energy to SNL.

Mary Ellen Matthews (17:35): "I'm so impressed by the level of professionalism."

She mentions emerging artists like Timothée Chalamet, appreciating the opportunity to document their growth over the years.

Mary Ellen Matthews (18:21): "He talked about that and he mentioned how many years it was. And I can't remember cause my brain's broken. But it's been a minute, like 10 years maybe."

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Conclusion: Celebrating a Legacy

As the conversation wraps up, Alison Stewart congratulates Matthews on her book, acknowledging the significant contribution her work makes to the cultural tapestry of New York City and beyond.

Mary Ellen Matthews (18:46): "Thank you so much. And it was so nice to see you. And thank you for having me in."

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Final Thoughts

This episode of All Of It offers an intimate look into the world of Mary Ellen Matthews, shedding light on the artistry and dedication required to capture the vibrant personalities that grace the SNL stage. Through her lens, Matthews not only documents but also shapes the cultural narrative of one of America's most enduring television institutions.

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Notable Quotes:

• Mary Ellen Matthews (03:03): "My dad was an amateur hobbyist... so it was kind of in my DNA and I always just wanted to be in that world."

• Alison Stewart (02:05): "It's so exciting when you read this book because it's 272 pictures. They're gorgeous."

• Mary Ellen Matthews (07:10): "I think it's a sense of cool... there's an edginess, there's an intelligence..."

• Mary Ellen Matthews (16:02): "... did a Jackson Pollock type thing. And my dog played a big part, Daphne."

• Mary Ellen Matthews (13:12): "He's such a collaborator. He's so enthusiastic and excited about this part of the show..."

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Conclusion

Mary Ellen Matthews’ extensive experience and creative vision have not only immortalized countless moments on SNL but also contributed significantly to the cultural landscape of New York City. Her new book, The Art of the SNL Portrait, serves as a testament to her artistry and the vibrant personalities she has captured over the years.

Transcript

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[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. SNL's 50th anniversary this year has encompassed a lot of big celebrations. A documentary, a major movie, a bio on Lorne Michaels, a live three hour special featuring every famous person alive. Well, not every famous person, but it seemed like it. For the past 25 years, photographer Mary Ellen Matthews has captured the images of hosts and musical guests on the show. On one hand, they have a useful purpose. The images appear as bumpers so that local stations have room a bumper to go in and out of commercial. On the other hand, the portraits show whimsical, emotional, sometimes cultural references to moments in time. Think John Mulaney dressed as Patti Smith on the COVID of Horses or Chance the Rapper flying like Superman. Or a glamour shot of Emma Stone. At the end of the day, the bumpers, like all of snl, capture the spirit of New York. Mary Ellen Matthews has compiled some of her favorite images for a new photography book called the Art of the SNL Portrait. SNL producer Molorum Michels writes in the book, quote, the bumpers are probably the least appreciated part of the show, but anybody who knows the show knows how much they mean. Mary Ellen Matthews is with me now in studio. It is so nice to see you.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

I am so happy to be here. I am such a big fan of public radio NPR of yours nyc. So I'm over the moon.

[Alison Stewart]

It's so exciting when you read this book because it's 272 pictures. They're gorgeous. But then you realize that you've taken about 380, 800 pictures have appeared on the air.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

Just about 4,000 of like this date. Yeah, a little bit around there, maybe over. I'm not sure. But yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

So what was your criteria for the book if you had to pick out of that many images?

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

It was tough. It was tough. I had a really good team around me. I had Emily Oberman at Pentagram and Alison Castle who was our writer. And the three of us and plus another little team helped us kind of call it down. It was so hard in the beginning. It was just like an impossibility. But then it's they kind of showed itself that the Flow showed itself to us. It goes from, you know, one person doing an action to the next person doing the same action, something like that. So it just had just a flow.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

How did you get into photography?

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

My dad was a amateur hobbyist. We had a darkroom at home and photography equipment around, photography books and, you know, so it was kind of in my DNA and I always just wanted to be in that world.

[Alison Stewart]

What did you take pictures of when you first started taking pictures, before you got paid for it?

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

I just, I think, like still lives. I was always fascinated by like a mayonnaise jar and the way that a light hit it. And then it was like, oh, well, people do that with people. So gradually went into more portraiture. And then I was working on film sets and did stills, you know, not for the production, but just behind the scenes for myself. And just with all the lights hit and just how the light was playing on different people. But then I started working at a record company and as a publicist. And so I would go out almost every night and see shows and take pictures of the bands.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

Then it's interesting because you have. I swear to God, I have it written really large. Mary Ellen Matthews instead of like Mary Ellen Marks.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

A very well known photographer. Who did you look up to as a photographer?

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

I mean, of course, all the great women, for sure. Diane Arbus, Marilyn Mark, Annie Leibovitz. You know, I was gravitated to the sort of comedy within photography also.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

Oh, interesting.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

So Mark Seliger was doing that and a lot of other greats, you know, movie posters, things like that. Always found that to be, you know, figuring out a puzzle. You have one shot to figure out a whole movie. And so I was very. I was very admired that.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

It's interesting because there is a great deal of humor in the book.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

What do you. I'm just gonna jump in. What happens when you get some person who is a little bit self serious in front of you and you've got to figure out how to find this essence in them, find the whimsical in them when they're sort of a self serious person.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

Yeah, yeah. I think it's sort of playing against type, so you kind of embrace that. But maybe there's a silly prop or maybe, you know, you kind of ease into that a little bit. But, you know, I think people who are. Who are self serious or one way know that, so.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

My guest is Mary Ellen Matthews. She makes portraits you see during snl. We're talking about her new book. The art of the SNL portrait. How do you get a gig being the SNL photographer?

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

Well, I was very lucky and I'm still honored to be there. I find each week we come back to the show a brand new start and, like, it's the first day again. And I'm not joking when I say that I have, you know, I'd find it just to be the most creative job. I mean, what a gift. But I was working at a record label and doing all the photography outside of there, and I think I got fired. I can't remember I got fired or I quit. Do you remember TVT Records? Yeah.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

It was there.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, yeah.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

Good times, but hard to say. But then I went and checked my answering machine. You know, you dial in and you check your answering machine. And I got a. I got a voicemail from somebody who had worked for Edie Baskin. This was in the same hour, so.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

It was sort of like, wow, wow, that's amazing.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

It was. And so she was leaving and she wanted to know if I wanted to interview with Edie Baskin, who was the then photographer who started all of the iconic photos back in the day.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

How was it explained to you what your job would be?

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

I don't know if it was. I mean, I started out as a photographer, as a support system, as an assistant, and just learned so much from Edie and, you know, gradually got to understand what the job is. So I don't think there was an explanation.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

When you're writing, when you're shooting these bumpers, it's important that they have sort of the essence of New York associated with them. What does that mean to you when they say the essence of New York?

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

I think it's a sense of cool. That's what I think it is. You know, there's an edginess, there's an intelligence, there's intellectual, if I can make that word. Sure, sure. Why not? So, yeah, that's how it comes across to me. That's how I like to portray it. Or have people sort of play around with that.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

What do you remember about the first time that you met with Lauren Michael? Ooh.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

He was very kind and I was very intimidated, but, you know, you have to rise to the occasion, as it were. And when I stepped into the job after edie left in 2000, you know, I wanted his approval for sure, but I also wanted his input as to how to move forward now that this was that and now this was going to be this.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

Yeah. It's interesting because in reading that bio of him.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

He talks about how the show is really about young people, and that's how you keep it fresh. Yeah. How have you evolved as a photographer from 2002 to 2025?

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

Yeah, well, again, I really like to keep it fresh and not do the same thing over and over again. However, in the parameters of what I do, it kind of is the same thing over and over again. So my challenge is, you know, maybe come up with new techniques or see, turn the box upside down and just keep it, you know, going in something different. To answer your question, I mean, there's so much out there now with Instagram and social media. So you are seeing so much talent and so much creativity, and that is always just something so important to do is just keep your eyes open and your heart.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, that's interesting. Your heart too. What does your week look like?

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

We shoot on Thursday afternoon with the host and musical guest, and that's Thursday. And then Friday is production day. Editing, start putting everything together. And then Saturday is continuation of that. And then during the week is, you know, I have a great staff. Will Roz and Alex shout out. But there's a lot of other photography that happens on the show besides that. So that's more of an administrative time. But I'm thinking and concepting and gathering props and talking to stylists and people who are gonna help on the creative side of what I do.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah, I was gonna ask on the creative side, when does that start? When do you start thinking about what it's gonna.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

Oh, Mike. Thinking. You know, I was just in your green room going, like, just looking. I make little folders of people for people. This is Jack Black is this week, so he hasn't been on in a minute, but he's amazing. So very excited for him and just looking through what some ideas I have now.

[Alison Stewart]

When you flip through the book, the colors really stand out and how you match the background with what the person's wearing. How do you think about the role of color in your work?

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

You know, it's such a. It's such a gift, I guess, to have luminosity behind these images because they're on televisions and computer screens. It's not a printed image, so the color space, there's much more room to play with.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

Oh, my gosh.

[Alison Stewart]

That's really interesting.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

Yeah. So when we were going to do this book, having to print, it was like, oh, no. You know, going from apples to an orange was not easy. But, you know, the publisher, Abrams, did a great job with that, and it Took a little minute to get it right.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

Let's talk about the COVID The COVID features Andy Samberg dressed as an olive. Relaxing, shall we say?

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

Yep.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

And he's in a martini glass. Mini kitteny glass.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

First of all, how did you decide that this would be the COVID There was no.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

There was no question. Really? Absolutely not. I can't go any farther without mentioning that he does have a pimento hat on.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

Yes, he does have a pimento.

[Alison Stewart]

Yes.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

Like a beret.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

It's a beret.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

Yes.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

But just there's a sense of ridiculousness, of joy, of presence that Andy's just being the olive. There's no question that he's not the olive there.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

And on the back, you have Scarlett.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

Johansson, gorgeous scarlet in that beautiful smile. And, you know, bookending it with the martini glasses, which is sort of the same way it goes through the book.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

It sort of makes sense that way.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

It's interesting. Cause some of the portraits are just wild, just like crazy imagination. And then some are just. It's almost a take on the person, on a moment that they're having at that moment. How do you make that call when to just be crazy and go over the edge or really like to just kind of capture somebody in an image?

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

Yeah, I really like to represent that side of somebody. And it's also good for the show because the show is just chaos. And you're coming in at a commercials and the band and this and that. And it's nice to come back to, like, a quiet moment once in a while. I mean, the comedy of the shots sometimes are perfect. But I do like that quiet portrait now and again because it's a little bit unexpected.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

My guest is photographer Mary Ellen Matthew. She makes the portrait you see during snl. We're speaking about her new book called the Art of the SNL Portrait. John Mulvaney. John Mulvaney gets this whole section in the book.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

Mulaney.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

Mulaney, sorry. John Mulaney gets his whole section of books. John Mulvaney, he's some guy. Why was he a person that you wanted to feature in your book?

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

We did a chapter, a case study on John Mulaney. Because he's such a collaborator. He's so enthusiastic and excited about this part of the show, doing our photos together. So weeks before I even know he's booked, he'll text me and be like, I'm coming in, and da, da, da. So, you know, he has a ton of ideas. I have a ton of ideas. And he's that type of person who's so rich for ideas. Like, you can just like, go where, you know, what's our theme? Like, we've done a couple themes, like a thematic show. Last one we did, which isn't in the book, old 70s commercials. And one was the Brooke Shields. Me and my Calvin.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

Oh, my gosh.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

Mikey likes it. So, you know, he's such a great actor, of course, and a comic mind.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

That's interesting. Do you find that actors become. Start acting when they're getting their picture again?

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

Sure, sure, sure. Yes, that's what we want. Of course. And, you know, to come up with these ideas instead of just standing there in front of a seamless. I mean, with all this press and stuff, I have to. I've had to do it. And it's so hard. It's really hard. I'm sure you know, too. So if you're given a setup or a scenario, you can kind of not be so awkward and kind of get into the thing and bring something to it.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

I think you took a picture of me once.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

I probably did.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

For NBC.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

Msnbc.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

Yeah, Yeah, I think you did, but. Great.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

Weren't we at MTV at the same time?

[Unnamed Interviewer]

Yeah, we were also. I remember and I remember feeling really comfortable with you. Oh, you know, some photographers don't always make you feel comfortable. And I was all dolled up and I had the, you know, I have to dig these out, msnbc, you know, makeup, the whole thing. But you made me feel very comfortable.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

So nice.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

And sometimes, how do you go about making someone feel comfortable? Cause those situations are weird. There's lighting and there's people putting light meters in front of your face. And it's weird.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

And it's like, perform. And here we go. You know, I have a great crew, like I said, and we have a great vibe and we try to neutralize that interesting and great music. Rolling Stones usually pops on or, you know, whatever they want to listen to, go plug in their ipod. But I also like to make it. You're not thinking about it too much, just sort of like go through it quickly, you know, not super fast, but, you know, have fun. Just. Just take. Not take ourselves too seriously. It's just have fun with this.

[Alison Stewart]

You also did SNL at home during.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

COVID Loved that so much.

[Alison Stewart]

That must have been actually a very hard thing to figure out how to capture New York during COVID Yeah. Tell us a little bit about that.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

Yeah, we did at home shows. So everybody was at their own place and everyone zoomed it in. And like, no one even said, like, this is why you might want to do this. Like, we need eight photos. What are you going to do? So I was, you know, got out the condiments and did a Jackson Pollock type thing. And my dog played a big part, Daphne. And then I had two friends around to. It's like we were tested. Don't worry. Nobody won't worry. So they helped me with the fabrication of the Little Cities. Sean Patrick Anderson and Lana Eddy. So that was really lucky to have that help. But, you know, it was such a great creative outlet at the time. I would love to do it again. Not with any pandemic, though.

[Alison Stewart]

Exactly. Something else. Yeah. Who was a person that you were supposed to photograph that you were a little nervous about?

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

Well, your rock gods, Paul McCartney and your Mick Jagger, for sure.

[Alison Stewart]

They're always nice. The bigger the star. I know, the nicer they are.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

That's the rule. I've told this story before, but when Paul McCartney was on the first time, he could tell I was just a wreck, you know. And he kind of like took the stool, put it in place, and he said, you know, my wife was a photographer. And so got like, broke the ice that way.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

So who was a young person who.

[Alison Stewart]

Came in, someone fairly new, who you thought, you know what? This person's got it.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

So many. I gotta say, because this is what's happening now. It's all these younger kids. YouTube, like, you know, a Tate McCray or, you know, Morgan Wallen was on. You know, they're all. I'm like, you know, we're at a different level of people that we've run with. And so this is exciting for me to get to know these younger performers. So I, you know, to answer your question, I think all of them. I'm so impressed by the level of professionalism.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

I'm actually wondered about Timothee Chalamet.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

Just watching him kind of grow up.

[Alison Stewart]

When he was on the show the.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

First time versus when he was on the last time. Yes. It's interesting. You get to see people at different stages in their career.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

And he talked about that and he mentioned how many years it was. And I can't remember cause my brain's broken. But it's been a minute, like 10 years maybe. But he talked about that. So. And I was like, right, you're right.

[Alison Stewart]

The name of the book is the.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

Art of the SNL Portrait. It is full of beautiful photograph by my guest, Mary Ellen Matthews. Congratulations on the book. Thank you.

[Mary Ellen Matthews]

Thank you so much. And it was so nice to see you. And thank you for having me in Absolutely.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

Coming up on tomorrow's show, we'll speak with some actors and writers behind the absurdly funny new Broadway musical Operation Minceme. I'm Alison Stewart. I appreciate you listening and I appreciate you. I will meet you back here tomorrow.

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