'The Brutalist' Cinematographer on Shooting in VistaVision (The Big Picture)

Summary

Podcast Summary: All Of It – "The Brutalist" Cinematographer on Shooting in VistaVision (The Big Picture)
Host: Alison Stewart
Guest: Lal Crowley, Cinematographer
Release Date: February 4, 2025

---

Introduction to "The Brutalist" and Lal Crowley

In this episode of All Of It, hosted by Alison Stewart, the spotlight is on Lal Crowley, the Oscar-nominated cinematographer for the film "The Brutalist." The conversation delves into Crowley's collaboration with director Brady Courbet, the innovative use of VistaVision technology, and the creative challenges faced during the film's production.

Collaboration with Director Brady Courbet

Timestamp: [02:50]

Lal Crowley discusses his long-standing collaboration with director Brady Courbet, highlighting that "The Brutalist" is their third film together. Crowley praises Courbet's assuredness and pragmatism, noting his willingness to explore different creative avenues to serve the story's themes effectively. This mutual respect and aligned vision have made their partnership both productive and enjoyable.

Embracing VistaVision Technology

Timestamp: [04:03]

A significant focus of the episode is the use of VistaVision, a film division technology from the 1950s, which made a rare comeback in "The Brutalist" as the first American film in over six decades to employ it. Crowley expresses his excitement about using VistaVision, recalling his previous experience with the cameras during his early career. The choice of VistaVision was driven by the film's ambition to capture expansive architectural spaces without distortion, allowing for a larger negative area and a wider field of view essential for portraying the protagonist Laszlo Toth's architectural creations.

Creative Advantages and Technical Challenges

Timestamp: [05:54]

Crowley explains how VistaVision facilitated the accurate portrayal of brutalist architecture by avoiding the distortions typically caused by wider lenses. This technology enabled the team to maintain true architectural lines while capturing the grandeur of the settings. Despite its benefits, Crowley acknowledges the technical challenges, such as the camera's bulkiness and noise. However, the superior visual outcome justified overcoming these hurdles. Additionally, the team occasionally supplemented VistaVision with other camera systems for specific scenes requiring more flexibility.

Time Constraints and Minimal Coverage Filming

Timestamp: [09:19]

"The Brutalist" was shot over an intense 33-day schedule with a budget of approximately $10 million. Crowley attributes their ability to meet these tight timelines to strong support from producers and a cohesive team aligned with the project's vision. The film employs minimal coverage techniques, often relying on single or limited shots per scene. This approach not only streamlined the shooting process but also mirrored the stylistic choices of 1950s melodramas, contributing to the film's authentic period feel.

Lighting as a Storytelling Element

Timestamp: [12:31]

Lighting plays a crucial role in "The Brutalist," representing the thematic dichotomy of light and dark that parallels the protagonist's journey. Crowley emphasizes the importance of lighting in conveying the emotional states of characters, particularly Laszlo Toth. Collaborating closely with production designer Judy Becker, the cinematography reflects the evolving architectural designs within the film. Crowley also discusses his philosophy of balancing artificial lighting with available light to enhance authenticity without overstepping into manipulation.

Notable Scenes and Cinematic Techniques

Timestamp: [17:15]

One of the standout discussions revolves around the film's opening scene, where the Statue of Liberty is depicted upside down. Crowley explains the creative decision to alter this iconic image, drawing parallels to reinterpretations seen in other films like "Ghostbusters" and "Planet of the Apes." This symbolic inversion serves to reflect the protagonist's altered perception and the overarching themes of transformation and instability within the narrative.

Overcoming Shooting Challenges

Timestamp: [20:09]

Crowley recounts the challenges faced while filming a pivotal scene where the characters traverse a hill to a property intended to become a community center. Shooting this during a limited time frame as daylight faded required precise coordination and exceptional performance from the cast and crew. The successful execution of this scene, achieved within the constraints, underscores the team's dedication and adaptability under pressure.

Adrien Brody’s Performance and Visual Storytelling

Timestamp: [22:17]

The episode highlights Adrien Brody's portrayal of Laszlo Toth, emphasizing his magnetic and nuanced performance. Crowley discusses how Brody's expressive features and emotional depth bring authenticity to the character, making the cinematographic efforts to capture his essence both satisfying and impactful. The collaboration between Brody and Crowley ensures that every visual element complements the actor's performance, enhancing the storytelling.

Reception and Impact of "The Brutalist"

Timestamp: [24:08]

"The Brutalist" has garnered critical acclaim and audience appreciation, becoming a celebrated addition to contemporary cinema. Crowley reflects on the film's success, hoping it inspires other filmmakers to embrace film as a medium and pursue ambitious projects in terms of length and scope. The positive reception validates the team's creative choices and reinforces the relevance of traditional filmmaking techniques in modern storytelling.

Conclusion

Throughout the episode, Lal Crowley provides an in-depth look into the artistry and technical mastery behind "The Brutalist." His insights into collaboration, technological innovation, and the deliberate use of cinematic techniques offer valuable lessons for aspiring filmmakers and enthusiasts alike. The conversation underscores the enduring power of film as a medium for complex storytelling and cultural expression.

---

Note: This summary refrains from using direct quotes exceeding 70 characters to comply with copyright policies. Instead, it paraphrases key points and insights shared during the podcast episode.

Transcript

[Progressive Insurance]

All of it is supported by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the Name youe Price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match Limited by state law not available in all states.

[Lal Crowley]

Listener Supported WNYC Studios.

[Alison Stewart]

This is all of It. I'm Alison Stewart. It's time to start reading our February get lit with all of it book club pick. This month we'll be reading Imani Perry's new book, Black in How a Color Tells the Story of My People. It's an exploration of the relationship between black Americans and the color blue, from the role of indigo dye in the slave trade to R and B. Imani join us on the show yesterday to preview the conversation and she'll be joining us on Wednesday, February 26th for an in person and virtual event at the New York Public Library. New Yorkers can borrow an E copy of the book thanks to our partners at nypl and tickets to the event are free. They tend to go really fast, so make sure you reserve yours today. Head to wnyc.org getlit or go to our Instagram of it wnyc now that's in the future. Let's get this hour started with the Oscar nominated cinematographer of the Brutalist. Part of the magic of the movie the Brutalist is in its ambition. That ambition is in the size and scope of the story. It follows Hungarian architect Laszlo Toth over the course of many years, the highs and the lows. But that ambition is also in the technology used. Shoot the film. Technology handled by my next guest. That's aha. Oscar nominated cinematographer Lal Crowley. Lal and director Brady Courbet used this division on the Brutalist. The technology was invented in the 50s and used by filmmakers like Alfred Hitchcock before eventually falling out of use. The Brutalist is the first American film in more than 60 years to shoot with this division to achieve these epic scenes. Lal worked with this technology to shoot in Italian marble quarries, rainy work sites, empty furniture stores. He is nominated for an Oscar for Best Cinematography for his work on the film. The Brutalist has been nominated for 10 Academy Awards including Best Picture. Lal Crowley joins me now as part of our series the Big Picture. That's when we speak to Oscar nominees who work behind the camera to create amazing films of 2024. Lal, welcome.

[Lal Crowley]

Thank you Allison. It's very nice to very nice to be here. Nice to meet you.

[Alison Stewart]

Nice to meet you as well. This year, third movie with Brady Courbet. What makes him a good collaborator for you?

[Lal Crowley]

Yes, exactly. My third film. Very proud to say. Yeah, Brady is. From the very first time I worked with him, I realized what an assured filmmaker he is. He has. He's very. He's. He's incredibly assured, but also very pragmatic and sort of as long as the themes of the scene within the scene come across, he's very happy to. He's very strong collaborators, very happy to find different ways of achieving it. So he's not overly precious, you know, and as he would say, he kind of moves the sand around in the sandbox, you know, in order to sort of, you know, put the budget where he feels it needs to be to tell the story. Yeah, he's a fantastic collaborator to work with. It's a real honor.

[Brady Courbet]

All right, we're going to talk VistaVision for a while. What was your reaction to learning that Brady Courbet wanted to shoot this film on VistaVision?

[Lal Crowley]

I was incredibly excited. I mean, we've always shot 35 mil celluloid on. On. On the three films each. Each of the. Each film is a period film, obviously, in different periods, and Vox Lux made was a more recent period. But, you know, we've always felt that film helped to serve that purpose and tell that story. And we've always been interested in larger formats. And so when. When Brady invited me to shoot the Brutalist, he was very excited about the idea of VistaVision. Yeah. And so I had worked with Vista Vision cameras as a camera assistant on a Star wars movie a long time ago, 25 years ago, if not more. It could be that that same camera that I loaded was the same camera that I shot. No, there aren't. There aren't that. There aren't that many of those cameras around. So. Yeah. And also I think for a movie like this, you know, the VistaVision camera system, even though it's still 35 mil, it essentially shoots horizontally like a stills camera would. So you end up with a larger negative area and. And a. Subsequently a larger field of view to capture, as you said, the vistas and the. And the architecture that Laszlo Toth creates. You know, So I firmly believed from the very beginning that VistaVision was not an affectation or a gimmick, that it really earned its place with the Brutalist.

[Alison Stewart]

What did it allow you to do creatively as a cinematographer?

[Lal Crowley]

Yeah, so essentially, traditionally, if you were trying to photograph. If you were trying to photograph architecture, you'd work with a system called swing and tilt or swing and shift lenses. Which is basically a way of not distorting the true lines of the architecture. Now obviously, filming the Institute and filming these architectural spaces, when we used VistaVision, because you have this wider field of view, it meant that you weren't forced onto a wider angle lens in order to photograph it, if that makes sense. So you can work on a longer lens but still see far more of the space. So therefore, with Judy Becker's designs, which were obviously, you know, Laszlo's designs, and these concrete spaces, these brutalist spaces, these wonderful spaces of architecture, it meant that we could photograph it without distorting it by being forced onto a wider lens, you know, and so that was along, along with the side, the fact that Brady wanted to use a camera system from the 1950s to tell story that is largely, that largely takes place in the 1950s. It. They seem two incredible reasons to, to me to, to shoot the movie that way.

[Brady Courbet]

Do you understand why it isn't used as much at all?

[Lal Crowley]

Yeah, I mean, it's like all these things, I mean the, these things develop, you know, in terms of technology. It's, it's, it's a, it's a less ergonomic camera system, shall we say. You know, I mean, there are other camera systems that also became, you know, sort of fell out of favor, should we say, like, if you look at like the Nouvelle Vague, you know, the 1960s, smaller cameras. Smaller, smaller Artons cameras in Europe were being used by Goddard that then translated back across the Atlantic to, to America, you know, and, and informed Gordon Willis and, and sort of use of available lines. So there's always this back and forth in this. And this kind of evolution. And so unfortunately they're, they're quite, can be quite noisy, cameras can be quite cumbersome, you know, but you know, we successfully used it on the Brutalist, but we also supported it with other camera systems occasionally, like if I needed a very small handheld camera to follow Adrian through the ship, for example, early on then we were able to lean into those technologies as well. But it was the beauty of the VistaVision far outweighed some of the technical disadvantages or older technology we were forced to work with.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest is Lal Crowley, he is cinematographer. He is nominated for best cinematography in this year's Oscar race. It's part of our Big Picture series. You shot the film in a short amount of time. What challenges did those time constraints put on you?

[Lal Crowley]

Yeah, we shot the movie In I think 33 days. And budget budget wise, it was also around 10 million, which I know sounds a lot, but For a movie of this scope and scale, it's. It was very, very ambitious. It was very ambitious.

[Alison Stewart]

Ambitious has become another word for. Means something else. A little bit.

[Lal Crowley]

Yeah. But you know, I have to say, never with the support of the producers and all of the heads of department really being aligned on this project to serve. You know, I've said it before, but everybody needs a director. It's not just about directing the performance. Everyone needs that singular vision. And you know, Brady is, I mean, having, having shot three films for Brady helps a lot because you. There's less contradiction on set. There's your esthetically aligned. The other thing is that what you see in the movie is largely what we shot. You know, so when, when, when practitioners in the industry talk about coverage, you're obviously talking about within a scene, the number of shots it takes to tell that, to tell that part of the story. Now with Brady, he'll often embrace one, one shot or maybe three shots, but it's very, very minimal coverage, which again is akin to that. What we've come to recognize within almost like 1950s melodramas of that time or what we regard as sort of, you know, that, that type of studio or American cinema of that era. So, so what I mean is that even though it was hard often to, to shoot an entire scene in one shot, once you kind of got it on its feet and you started shooting it, then the whole scene was complete. You know, there are some five minute long takes in this, in this movie that there's no cuts in there. You. I think that goes a long way. You know, just being very, very minimal in the coverage really, really helped us to get through each shooting, shooting day.

[Brady Courbet]

You got to love a one take, Jake.

[Lal Crowley]

Exactly. And Brady is always, as I say, thrown down the gauntlet to me. You know, he's like, this is what, what we are doing with this scene. You know, sometimes, sometimes, you know, with a collaborator there's a back and forth and you. And it evolves and goes somewhere else. Sometimes. You know, my job is to execute that, you know, that one intention and that one desire, and that's just fine. Like it's not, I'm not always there, you know, I certainly don't want to be there contradicting the director, you know, but a healthy, a healthy back and forth, forth and a robust collaboration is very nice.

[Brady Courbet]

I think people don't realize this, but a cinematographer, part of your, your job is lighting a scene. It's not just taking a picture of a scene or going after it. Tell people why it's important, the lighting.

[Lal Crowley]

Well, I mean, certainly within this film, it's incredibly important because the more I talk about this film and the more. The more distance I have from it in many subjects. I mean, it. The whole movie is about light and dark. It's kind of extraordinary. Like the. Even when. Even when Laszlo seems at his kind of most hedonistic or sort of joy, you know, sort of. Sort of joyful or having these kind of moments, he's actually kind of in a very, very dark space. So there's lots of, you know, scenes within a jazz club or seen early on where he's at a brothel or, you know, obviously at the beginning of the ship, the beginning of the scene where he's in the ship. So it's all about sort of being devoid of light and then sort of reaching for the light in some regards. So. So light within this film is incredibly important. And I had to work very closely with Judy Becker, our production designer, because all of those scenes kind of reflect the design of the institute that Laszlo eventually. Eventually constructs in the second half of the movie. But. But talking about light, as a cinematographer, I'm also somebody who. I learned early on that some of the time I'm booked as a. I'm employed as a cinematographer to leave the lighting truck doors closed. You know, it's not always about imposition. You know, in some regards, it's almost like having an insurance policy having a lighting truck I don't always have to use, you know, don't always have to make a claim. And I think part of my job is to recognize when it's appropriate to the scene to use available light, you know. But I've also been very heavily influenced by a lot of cinematographers that work the same way, like Robbie Mueller and Robbie Ryan, and people like. It's to. You know, sometimes the way the light is behaving, the natural daylight is more than enough.

[Alison Stewart]

You know, this might sound a little bit like a tangent, but I've heard you talk about the film, and it struck me that you might be someone who takes photographs. Do you?

[Lal Crowley]

Yes. Yeah, I am. I am. It's interesting, though, because I. I see some cinematographers taking photographs on set and I. And I think, oh, wow, what wonderful mementos. And people sometimes ask me if I do that, and I. I'm so sort of like. I mean, this isn't unusual for cinematographer. We all feel this way, but you're so focused, and in the moment of shooting 24 frames a second. 24. 24 photos. Every second, I Sometime that if I. If I sort of enjoy the moment of stepping back and taking a photo, something will go awry. You know, I need to sort of. If that makes sense, I need to. There's sort of two different headspaces for me. I enjoy taking photographs, but alongside the sort of responsibility and tension of shooting a scene, it's a little hard for me to do both.

[Alison Stewart]

How did you get into this business? How come? How. Are you a Cinemato cinematographer?

[Lal Crowley]

Yes. It's a good question. I mean, it was an evolution from, you know, I was in school, I loved. I loved art. And then art turned into photography and photography to moving image. And then I. I went to study in the northeast of England in Newcastle. Filmmaking. And they. At that time, they had 16 mil for cinematography. And so I really did that. And then. And then met some great people at university that I continued after we graduated, continued to shoot short films with, whilst also working in the industry. Because I realized that partly it's what, you know, okay, so what you're taught at university or wherever, you pick up that knowledge. The second thing is confidence. When you step onto a film set, you. You invariably. In somebody's way, because everyone's. Everyone knows their position and craft, and you're in. You're always in the way. And it took me time, and it takes, you know, it takes different people different time, and that's fine. But it took me a certain amount of time to have the authority, to have the confidence to be able to know what I'm saying, you know, and then the two kind of came together, you know.

[Alison Stewart]

I'm speaking with cinematographer Love Crowley.

[Brady Courbet]

His work on the Brutalist has earned him an Oscar nomination for best cinematography.

[Alison Stewart]

We're speaking to him as part of our series the Big Picture.

[Brady Courbet]

Let's talk about the opening scene. Well, people have seen it on the poster in the Statue of Liberty is Upside Down. I love this scene in the movie. First of all, what did it look like on paper? And how did you transfer that to. To cinema?

[Lal Crowley]

Yeah, well, I mean, again, again, it was a sort of evolution. I mean, it was definitely scripted in this way. I mean, the reality, as we all know, that if you. Oh, you know, all of us. But if you've been lucky enough to sort of see the Statue of Liberty from New York harbor, you'll know it's a very specific thing. And so if we had shot it in a way that had been a literal way and a. And a. And a continuation of what is quite a literal scene, handheld, following Adrian Brody's character Up to the. To the deck of the ship. That literal continuation would have been. It possibly would have been slightly underwhelming in the sense that. That you're seeing the Statue upon a plinth, upon a. An island, you know, and. Sure, of course, but it's. It's not as arresting as, I think, what we ultimately came up with. And the idea also of this. I mean, I was talking about it last night, but it's interesting because there. If you. I know this seems like a strange reference, but if you look at Ghostbusters or Planet of the Apes, the thing about those. And Brutalist. The thing is the three. Those three movies. The. The. The strangest thing is the way that the. The Statue of Liberty has been sort of reinterpreted, you know, and something is very much a miss when, you know, we. It's. I mean, I. I didn't grow up in America, and yet the Statue of Liberty represents such. Such a firm thing, you know, such a. Something that cannot be sort of like, ripped out from its moorings and cannot be upturned and end up in a beach in California or be untethered in the way that we did. You know, but. And. But it's so. I mean, it can't. You know, Brady sort of. The idea evolved, and then David Jancho, our editor, sort of flipped and rotated the image and. And, you know, so between us, we kind of had this idea, but it. But what's. What's interesting is that it's not a literal representation of what Laszlo would see, but it represents. You know, I mean, people have different theories of it, but, you know, it could represent. You know, it could be seen to represent that to an immigrant, the solidity, the. The. The. The hope, the. The stoic liberty that she represents is. Is not necessarily what will. What will evolve for Laszlo.

[Alison Stewart]

You told the Hollywood Reporter that one of the most difficult scenes for you to shoot was the scene where Van Buren is showing the group the property that he wants to turn into this community center that he wants Laszlo to design. And they're walking up this big hill and it's. It's. Well, people can't see my hands, but they're walking up a big hill. What was challenging about getting this scene right so that people could understand where they were and what was happening?

[Lal Crowley]

Yeah, I mean, the. The. The. The. Well, I mean, there wasn't necessarily anything geographically disorientating for the viewer, but the tricky thing. So the scene that precedes it, basically, it's. You know, the. The. The light is fading. The light is fading. And, you know, we're in this winter time, so it's kind of half an. In reality, it would be half an hour to 45 minutes of available light, you know, between sunset and darkness. Right. And then the group. Will Van Buren just says he has a. An announcement and they all leave the house. And so there's this one shot of them crossing the bridge, which we shot actually as the light was fading. Because you can. If it's one shot, you. You can. You can. You know, you can achieve that. It's very difficult to shoot a scene that. That follows in available light because there's lots, you know, there's lots of shots to achieve it, you know. However, in this one instance, we actually did. I mean, it's quite remarkable. We had an amazing Steadicam operator called Attila Feffer in. In Pest and a really amazing camera. Camera assisting team and fantastic performers that nailed this. I mean, the supporting actors. But, you know, obviously Guy. Guy Pierce and Adrian Brody nailed this scene under. Under Brady's direction in 45 minutes. So it was a rare thing where, had we not achieved it, we would have had to come back and the weather may have been different or, you know, but we managed to achieve it in that time. And it was extraordinary. It was a very exhilarating but, you know, stressful, stressful scene to shoot.

[Brady Courbet]

There are just all these beautiful, beautiful setups in the film. Whether it's the marble mines in Italy, whether it's a reunion scene, whether it's the gorgeous library. But I'm curious about Adrien Brody's face. What is it about Adrien Brody's face that a cinematographer loves?

[Lal Crowley]

I think. I mean, Brady has alluded to this and I would completely agree. Like, there's one of the. I think it's. I think it's an image that is on a lot of the press and the posters in the cinemas. But the moment where Adrian steps up in this kind of shower of sparks from his welded modernist furniture, you know, and he steps forward in the glow of that Brady has said, you know, he. He looks like a. A 50s icon. You know, he. He looks like that. And I think it's. It's an absolute pleasure to shoot. He just has this. I mean, he also has this arresting quality, magnetic quality. And I think. And obviously he. He. Yeah, he's. He just feels like Laszlo Toth. I mean, it's funny, I can't divide the two now. I mean, even though Laszlo is a fictitious character, which is also quite remarkable because it's such an Incredibly well rounded performance and well rounded piece of direction and writing from Brady and Mona. Yeah, it's just, it's just extraordinary. He just has incredible feature and I think there's a. He has wonderful features but he also just this, there's this real often sort of pathos or a kind of melancholy and just the torture, the sort of. You really get a sense through his expression really what this character has been through.

[Alison Stewart]

The film has been beloved by critics, beloved by audiences. It's three plus hours with an intermission. What has it been like seeing a film like the Brutalists become such a success?

[Lal Crowley]

It's been extraordinary. I mean, yeah, it's been so many things. I mean the awards and the nominations are one thing in themselves and of course they are wonderful to achieve. I've never experienced anything like this, but I really firmly hope that this film will be also some. An inspiration to other filmmakers that want to shoot on film, to other filmmakers that want to make a longer film, to. You know, I hope it'll be easier for Brady on it, on his, on his next film. You know, I, I think I'm really, really proud of that, you know, that hopefully it will be. It will it? You know, we love shooting film and there have been times, as we all know, of the last sort of 15. So that film has really, really had a tough time. And we've had wonderful filmmakers like Tarantino and Christopher Nolan and Paul Thomas Anderson, you know, and Brady who have all really, you know, have really kind of tried to shoot film. And the way to, to keep shooting, the way to keep film alive is to shoot film. Right? You know, use it or lose it, as they say. So yeah, I hope that, I mean, yes, the, the, the reception has been incredible and I think, I hope it makes the conversation a little easier about having a film of this length. And I think Brady has been unapologetic about just sort of really having. Embracing event cinema again. And guess what? People seem to be going and seeing it. So that's.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest has been Law Crowley.

[Brady Courbet]

His work on the Brutalists has earned him an Oscar nomination for best cinematography. It was really nice meeting you.

[Lal Crowley]

You too. Thank you so much, Alison. I appreciate it.

[WNYC]

If it's time for you to say goodbye to your car, truck, boat, motorcycle or rv, consider donating it to wnyc. We'll turn the proceeds from the sale of your vehicle or watercraft into the in depth news and programming that keeps our community informed. Donating is easy. The pickup is free and you'll get a tax deduction.

[Progressive Insurance]

Learn [e-mail] car Since WNYC's first broadcast in 1924, we've been dedicated to creating the kind of content we know the world needs. Since then, New York Public Radio's rigorous journalism has gone on to win a Peabody award and a DuPont Columbia Award, among others. In addition to this award winning reporting, your sponsorship also supports inspiring storytelling and extraordinary music that is free and accessible to all. To get in touch and find out more, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.