Podcast Summary: All Of It (WNYC)

Episode: The Forgotten History of The 1970 Women's World Cup

Date: June 20, 2024

Host: Kusha Navadar (in for Alison Stewart)

Guests:

• Rachel Ramsey & James Erskine (Co-directors, Copa71)
• Carol Wilson (Captain, 1971 England Women's Team)

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the lost and intentionally suppressed history of the 1971 Women’s World Cup in Mexico—Copa71—an unofficial, international soccer tournament that shattered records and challenged the boundaries for women athletes, but which was all but erased from cultural memory. The discussion centers around the making of the new documentary film Copa71 and features insightful reflections from co-directors Rachel Ramsey and James Erskine, as well as personal stories from Carol Wilson, captain of the England team that competed in the tournament.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Historical Erasure of the 1971 Women's World Cup (04:11–05:08)

• Active Suppression, Not Just Forgetting:
  • Rachel Ramsey describes how the event wasn’t simply forgotten but “really actively repressed” (04:11).

    "This is a tournament and a movement that was really actively repressed...the establishment...thought, you know, this is not something that they wanted to be supporting any further." (04:11, Rachel Ramsey)

• How the Story Came to Light:
  • James Erskine recounts that the project began after a teammate’s radio appearance in the UK aired on the Danny Baker show, prompting them to investigate the story (04:36).

The Players' Perspective & Lasting Impact (05:39–08:59)

• Players' Shock & Gratitude:
  • Carol Wilson remarks on her surprise at the renewed attention, emphasizing that women who participated had not even shared these stories with their own families.

    "We didn't expect anything like this because women's football was repressed. We haven't spoken about it for 50 years. A lot of us didn't even tell our families." (05:59, Carol Wilson)

  • Wilson shares personal anecdotes, including her son discovering her involvement only through television, and reflects on the humility, humor, and sadness found in their experiences.
• Shared Experience Across Borders:
  • Wilson valued the documentary’s exploration of teams from other countries, noting,

    "It was really great to see the other teams experiencing the same repression that we did." (08:03, Carol Wilson)

The Origins and Enforcement of the Ban (09:43–12:21)

• Why Was Women’s Soccer Banned?
  • James Erskine argues the bans stemmed from men’s desire for control and fabricated concerns about fertility.

    "The big reason was because the men wanted to control, control, control, control women...They didn't want to share." (09:43, James Erskine)

• Growing Up Under the Ban:
  • Carol Wilson shares that adults frowned upon girls playing soccer, and she wasn’t allowed to play in schools in England until she joined the Air Force as a young adult (10:40).

From Dream to Reality: The 1971 Tournament (11:49–12:57)

• The Improbable Journey:
  • Wilson conveys her disbelief that the World Cup could actually happen, recalling even the surprise of making it to qualifiers in Sicily.

    "No, I thought it was pipe dreams, if I'm honest." (11:49, Carol Wilson)

Global Parallels and Media Mockery (14:00–15:07)

• Media Derision:
  • Ramsey highlights a headline dismissing women’s football as “like watching a dog walk on its hind legs” (14:00).

    "Women being related to dogs if they were to play something like this...it really hits you in the gut." (14:00, Rachel Ramsey)

• Shared Isolation:
  • Interviewees from multiple continents believed themselves to be anomalies, the "only girl in the world who wants to play football."

The Making of a Spectacle—Business & Media (17:51–19:03)

• Why Mexico Hosted:
  • James Erskine explains Azteca Stadium owners and TV moguls saw opportunity following the success of the 1968 Olympics and the 1970 Men's World Cup.

    "They were like, we've got this big Stadium...what can we put on next?...We're gonna do it in a big way." (17:51, James Erskine)

• Support from TV and print media ensured the event went forward despite FIFA opposition.

Representation Gaps & World Context (19:19–20:00)

• Absence of African/Caribbean Teams:
  • Rachel Ramsey responds to a listener asking about underrepresented regions, citing women's soccer bans and practical challenges.
  • James Erskine notes women’s soccer remained a "criminal offense" in Brazil until 1986 (19:52).

Arrival in Mexico: A Surreal Experience (20:21–23:28)

• “Like Beatlemania”:
  • Carol Wilson recounts being greeted by hordes of reporters and police escorts—an extraordinary contrast to playing in near-empty English fields.

    "We thought, wow, we were stunned...It was like being thrust into a parallel universe." (21:08, Carol Wilson)

• The newfound attention did not distract the players from their goal: playing football.

Facing Mexico: Emotional Highs (23:48–24:55)

• The excitement and anxiety were palpable:

  "It was really frightening going on to that...my legs were like jelly. But...once we were on the field, once we were on the park, it was absolutely fine." (23:48, Carol Wilson)

• Despite losing to Mexico, the experience was joyful and affirming.

The Final & Issues of Fairness (25:14–25:58)

• Players Nearly Strike:
  • The Mexican team almost refused to play the final due to withheld earnings.

    "They were, you know, they were...not treated fairly or correctly." (25:14, James Erskine)

The Aftermath: Silence and Suppression (26:17–28:06)

• Returning Home to Nothing:
  • Players arrived to no fans, press, or support, and soon internalized their silencing.

    "We arrived at the airport and I can't remember seeing one photographer there...And then we found out we got banned because we got banned inside ourselves." (26:17, Carol Wilson)

• Rachel Ramsey frames it as “punished for your success,” reflecting on how far-reaching the suppression was.

No Institutional Apology (28:06–28:20)

• When asked if FIFA ever apologized, the answer is blunt:

  "No." (28:16, Carol Wilson)

Seeing Progress and the Next Generation (28:20–29:02)

• Wilson describes visiting Wembley Stadium during a major women's match as “absolutely amazing,” but laments,

  "This should have happened 40 years ago." (28:30, Carol Wilson)

Why Show Today’s Players? (29:02–29:39)

• James Erskine wanted current soccer stars like Alex Morgan and Brandi Chastain to demonstrate even they were unaware of this pivotal history, underlining the importance of preserving and sharing these stories.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Suppression:

  "This is a tournament and a movement that was really actively repressed."
  — Rachel Ramsey (04:11)

• On Being Found:

  "A lot of us didn't even tell our families. In fact, my son came home one night and saw me on Sky News, and he rang me straight away and he said, what the hell?"
  — Carol Wilson (05:59)

• On Playing in Mexico:

  "It was like Beatlemania is the only way I can describe it...I've said it before, it was like being thrust into a parallel universe."
  — Carol Wilson (21:08)

• On Coming Home:

  "We arrived at the airport and I can't remember seeing one photographer there...nobody really wanting to know you."
  — Carol Wilson (26:17)

• On Institutional Apology:

  "No."
  — Carol Wilson (28:16)

• On Today’s Women’s Matches:

  “It was absolutely amazing. I mean, my feet were off the ground most of the time. It was just super is all I can say...but this should have happened 40 years ago.”
  — Carol Wilson (28:30)

Important Timestamps

• ESPN & 2023 Women's Cup vs. 1971 History: 02:17
• Active Repression of History: 04:11
• How the Story Was Rediscovered: 04:36
• Players’ Reactions to Rediscovery: 05:59
• Reasons for the Ban in the UK: 09:43
• Carol’s Childhood in Banned England: 10:40
• Disbelief Before the Tournament: 11:49
• Mocking Headlines & Experiences: 14:00
• Business & Azteca Stadium Decision: 17:51
• Global Absence, African/Caribbean Exclusion: 19:19
• Arrival in Mexico, Press Frenzy: 20:21
• Playing Against Mexico, Emotions: 23:48
• Final’s Labor Dispute: 25:14
• Return, Social Silencing: 26:17
• No Apology, Institutional Response: 28:16
• Watching Modern Women's Football at Wembley: 28:30
• Rationale for Including Modern Stars: 29:16

Closing Thoughts

This episode powerfully resurfaces the buried history of the 1971 Women's World Cup, offering listeners a rare and emotional glimpse into the struggles and triumphs of trailblazing women athletes. Through stirring personal anecdotes and cultural analysis, the podcast makes clear that far more than a sporting event was lost—it was a legacy, one that only now is beginning to claim its rightful stage.

Recommended for anyone interested in women’s sports, social justice, sports history, or the enduring impact of culture on memory and identity.