← All Of It with Alison Stewart
All Of It with Alison Stewart
'The Ghosts Of Gwendolyn Montgomery,' By Clarence A. Hayes
00:20:53
A mystical adventure awaits Gwendolyn Montgomery, an NYC power publicist, who finds herself caught in web of murder.
Loading summary
Transcript47 lines
- [00:00]
Alison Stewart
All of it is supported by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. What is a super publicist supposed to do when she seems to be the target of ghosts? The answer, hook up with a broadcast psychic to help her find out why she is their target. Coming up, author Clarence Haynes joins us to discuss his new book, the Ghosts of Gwendolyn Montgomery. That's next.
- [00:49]
Clarence Haynes
I'm Al Letson and we're celebrating a decade of reveal.
- [00:53]
Alison Stewart
Congratulations on 10 years and keep those compelling stories. Just keep them coming so we will all as human beings understand what other people have gone through in this society.
- [01:08]
Clarence Haynes
10 years of great stories on the next reveal tonight at 9 on WNYC.
- [01:18]
Alison Stewart
WNYC supporters include the Sanitation foundation, the official non profit partner of the New York City Department of Sanitation, reminding listeners to help keep the city clean by not littering. Don't do New York City dirty trash.
- [01:32]
Clarence Haynes
Your trash, Hudson river park, partner of Westside Fest celebrating arts and culture on Manhattan's west side July 11th to 13th with the Whitney, Dia Chelsea and more details at WestsideFest NYC City Harvest who are on the road every day rescuing 77 million pounds of nutritious food a year for New Yorkers in need. Transforming surplus food into sustenance and sustainability. They that's how they feed Good. More@CityHarvest.org this is WNYC 93.9 FM and AM820, NPR News and the New York Conversation.
- [02:26]
Alison Stewart
This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. It is day two of our Beach Read series. We're looking at books you can't put down while you're at the beach or in the park or on your own staycation wherever you are. Today, we take you to New York City. We also spend time in the space between life and death, sort of a purgatory where ghosts can get stuck and boy, do they want out. The book is called the Ghosts of Gwendolyn Montgomery by Clarence Haynes. It starts as Gwendolyn is excited about the man man she's seeing and more excited about her thriving career. She is a superstar publicist and she is booked and busy, that is until her events start to go awry in a bad way. Blood is splattered everywhere at a fashion show. She is repping at another event. Her client is Outed as a homophobe with screen images as a big press availability. And then there's always a message which seems to be aimed at her. Gwendolyn needs to get to the bottom of what is going on. For this she turns to a queer Latinx psychic from the South Bronx who knows what is. What Kirkus Reviews said of the book, Haines has created a mystical, sensuous, dangerous world of spirits and power, while also making characters that feel three dimensional and knowledgeable friendships feel real. Family problems have the weight of generations of fights and secrets behind them. Like the best fantasy novels, there is room for a million more stories to be told to see how things progressed after the last PA with both the characters and the world itself. Clarence Haynes will be at sisters uptown in 1942Amsterdam this Friday, but he joins me now in studio. It's nice to meet you.
- [04:07]
Clarence Haynes
It's lovely to meet you as well, Alison. Thank you so much for that wonderful introduction. Wow.
- [04:13]
Alison Stewart
You started as a copywriter, you've co written books about young historical adult books. I mean, young historical adult. This is your first adult novel, I should say. When did you know you wanted to write an adult novel and why?
- [04:29]
Clarence Haynes
I had always known that my debut novel for adults would be speculative fiction. It was something that had been in my heart for a while and it was really when I was speaking to my publisher, Chrisean Trotman. My imprint is Legacy Lit. Shout out to Legacy lit about the idea that she gave me the green light. She thought it was wonderful and she thought it would. That would be an asset to the imprint. And so once I sort of had the green light from her, I was able to go there and do what I needed to do. I also wanted to make sure to pay tribute to my roots as a native New Yorker.
- [05:10]
Alison Stewart
I was gonna say that they say write what you know. What did you know? What did you want to write about?
- [05:15]
Clarence Haynes
I grew up in the Bronx during the 1970s and 80s, a proud gen Xer, and my family immigrated here from Panama. And so I wanted write something again that would be speculative fiction, that would really honor our roots, that would really pay tribute, pay homage to how I grew up. The scenes, the food, the sensibilities, the language, the style, the swag, all of that. So I worked really hard to get that on the page and to capture a piece of New York that I think isn't as centered as it once was.
- [05:50]
Alison Stewart
So let's talk about characters. Gwendolyn, she's a superstar publicist to clients everywhere. For example, who would be a client A real life client, let's say.
- [06:02]
Clarence Haynes
A real life client would be. That's a wonderful question. I'm going to go with Michael B. Jordan. Yeah. He would come to her for like, oh, I want to do something that would really. I mean, he's already well established and fabulous, but if he wanted something that was a little off the beaten path but would really nonetheless make him look great, really sparkle, add, like a different type of shimmer to his already wonderful image.
- [06:34]
Alison Stewart
What detail in the book did you put about Gwendolyn Lynn that lets us know who she is and what she's about?
- [06:40]
Clarence Haynes
So she is really obsessed with fashion, with things being just so in her home. Everything has a place. There's really no messiness in terms of her appearance. It's immaculate. And there's a reason for that. It's not just sort of, Wouldn't this be nice to have a glamorous, powerful black woman who's into these things? As we learn more about her past and her history, we learned there's a reason why she's so obsessed with looking good, with putting things together. It's something that she studied quite routinely during her teenage years.
- [07:19]
Alison Stewart
All right, we first meet her. She's putting on a fashion show at the Brooklyn Museum. Things are going really well. And then something wild happens, which is what I'm gonna get you to read a little bit about. This happens on page 19 of the book, so we're not giving you too much. You see where I wrote the purple mark? Okay. Read that till the end. This is Clarence Haynes reading from the Ghosts of Gwendolyn Montgomery.
- [07:43]
Clarence Haynes
Gwendolyn's phone vibrated in her skirt pocket. Media hits were coming in, she was sure. Notes of praise from people tuning in to the live broadcast. But more importantly, offers to hold meetings to shore up branding deals for Lamarque and Veronica. Potential clients peeping the show would soon be reaching out, asking for opportunities to work together. New income was on the horizon. Sublime would be okay. Financial woes over. Yes. James took Gwendolyn's hand and gently squeezed her fingers. She glanced over, sore tears streaming down his face as he gazed upon what she'd created. Confirmation that she'd brought awe and grace to others with her work. Yes. Gwendolyn felt rejuvenated, able to breathe for the first time in days, Energy pulsing beneath her skin. Energy she pushed down by instinct. She could refocus, enjoy the show, exult in her agency's future success, exult in being with her man. As the models walked out, craggy red streaks appeared at the Runway entrance flowing onto the floor. Some sort of paint. Gwendolyn let go of James's hand. This effect wasn't in the production dock. More crimson paint flanked the Runway as if being poured onto the platform. What's going on? James whispered. She gave a tiny shrug, mouthing, I don't know. Gwendolyn smelled something. The faint odor of copper. The models continued their walk. Undeterred. One model slipped on the paint and fell to the ground, letting out a tiny shriek as her feet were swept out from beneath her. Gwendolyn jumped from her feet and dashed to the Runway. Are you okay? She asked as she leaned over the platform and reached out for the young woman. A second model fell, pulling down another and then another. No, Gwendolin thought. Veronica kept singing, but looked over with a question in her eyes. Should we stop? The special black light filling the lobby was too dim for Gwendolyn to discern what was happening. She pivoted from the Runway and ran to the control booth, discreetly positioned behind the coat check. The technician responsible for the show's effects was still as a rock, dumbfounded. Turn on the lights. She shouted as she grabbed him by the arm, the air now so cold that her breath had begun to mist. The man glared briefly at Gwendolyn and flipped two buttons on his console. The entire museum flooded with light. Gwendolyn's heart pounded. She could see. Everyone could see. Veronica stopped singing. The musicians stopped playing. A statuesque man with long platinum hair and a flowy pantsuit rushed onto the Runway from backstage and bent down to assist the fallen model, Lamarque, his face crushed. Gwendolyn was just as horrified. The show a catastrophe. The Runway, the walls, the models, all covered in scarlet paint. No, that wasn't right. Not paint. Blood. The metallic scent in the air should have told Gwendolyn all she needed to know. The same scent that had permeated morning dreams. She blinked, looked down. Her linen suit splattered. Gwendolyn fought a wave of nausea. A multitude of sounds filled her ears as she absorbed everything around her. Lamarque was onstage, cursing the blood soaked models in tears. Jessica leapt onto the Runway to help. Veronica's jaw scraped the stage. Clive ran towards the museum's exit, bodyguard in tow. James was frozen in his chair, head buried in his chest, thick streaking crimson everywhere, cold numbing Grendelin's fingers. Something appeared on the back wall of the Runway, smeared, dripping, hard to read. She squinted. It was in Spanish letters, large and jagged, grotesque. Traidora Traitor.
- [11:17]
Alison Stewart
Dun dun dun. That is from the ghosts of Gwendolyn Montgomery. My guest is Clarence Haynes. So that's pretty early in the novel. I wondered what you decided about pacing when you put such a big event in the beginning of the novel. And then you have to not repeat them, but you have to build on them throughout the novel.
- [11:39]
Clarence Haynes
So that was one of the challenges of writing the book in terms of figuring out the book is a fusion of genres. It's a bit romance, it's a bit horror, it's a bit urban fantasy, it's a bit mystery thriller. And then in terms of how to keep sort of those mysterious elements going in a propulsive way to end each one of the things I love to do is to end each chapter with a cliffhanger. And so I think I pulled it off except for a couple of chapters. And then being okay that what particular theme I might be writing to might shift as a result of the book being a fusion of genres.
- [12:19]
Alison Stewart
I've heard a few people, and I even said this to somebody, this reminds me of Sinners a little bit.
- [12:25]
Clarence Haynes
I am thrilled to hear.
- [12:28]
Alison Stewart
Well, just the idea there are so many different genres in the book and how they are seamless. I'm curious. You've heard that before.
- [12:38]
Clarence Haynes
So. Yes, thank you. So that's such high praise. I really appreciate that. I have heard that. What's been also quite interesting is that for some early readers, they're a bit thrown off and they're a bit. For instance, if you're a horror person and you expect your beats to come at a certain time in a certain way, and with this, it's not quite going to do that. And I'm hoping in our post Sinner's World that we get used to genre fusion, that we get used to stories being told that might utilize horror elements, for instance, in a way that's different. Sinners focus so much on characters, place, history, memory, you know, in the beginning of the movie. And then it got to the vampires. And so I, you know, obviously I wrote this before Sinners, but I was really heartened to see that a film like that could do so well. More stories are given the opportunity to shine as a result.
- [13:30]
Alison Stewart
Was it a hard sell? It was before Sinners. It was before everybody kind of got used to the idea.
- [13:36]
Clarence Haynes
It was not. But that's because I have a very, very supportive publisher. As I said before, Chrisean has just been wonderful. And she also doesn't come to genre in a. She knows her stuff when it comes to speculative fiction, but she doesn't come from it in a sort of rigid, traditional way. And so there was a lot of room to play. I didn't really feel like I had to do much convincing.
- [14:01]
Alison Stewart
So my guest is Clarence Haynes. The Ghosts of Gwendolyn Montgomery is our choice for a good beach read. All right, let's bring in another character, Fonzie. Who's Fonzie? Where do we meet him?
- [14:16]
Clarence Haynes
Fonzie is a Panamanian American psychic who runs a botanica in the South Bronx. He basically can commune with ghosts in his sleep. In this world, ghosts basically mostly tether themselves to objects that hold sentimental value or property. And he's also having a forbidden, shall we say forbidden physical intimacy with a spirit, which he's not supposed to do. He's reeling, he's hurting from a situation he just got out of with his ex, Raphael.
- [14:51]
Alison Stewart
You bring in the different roles of religion. He is sort of like a cross between Catholicism and Santeria. You write at one point, what is Fonzi's role within the religion?
- [15:01]
Clarence Haynes
So he's a guardian. I'm saying it in English, even though I use Spanish in the book, because my Spanish is so bad that I'm frightened of mispronouncing words on air. And so he belongs to a particular order that's inspired by real world spiritual traditions, but the rules of the order are its own thing. I wanted to be inspired by these traditions, but I didn't necessarily want to say that. What I'm writing is meant to be sort of like a legitimate interpretation of how these belief systems work. And so I sort of did my own thing, but at the same time referencing what we know in the real world.
- [15:38]
Alison Stewart
So Gwendolyn and Fonzie get together. We won't give too much away. But what they discover is there are ghosts who are not happy, there are ghosts who want out, or there's ghosts who've been kept inside. What did you learn about ghosts for this book? Did you do research? Did it come from your imagination?
- [15:58]
Clarence Haynes
A little. A bit of both. I did, you know, in terms of my upbringing, my mother certainly believed in and practiced certain spiritual traditions that I was able to put into the book. And then I did do some research, but then I also just allowed the. I know writers speak about this all the time as the story. If when you sit with it long enough, it tells you what it needs to be. And, you know, for years ago, I thought, oh, that's. Oh, what craziness are people talking about? But that really was the case for me as well. And so after a while, as I just immersed myself in the narrative, the world building just came. And just in terms of this concept of disgruntled ghosts being stuck in this in between place, it just made sense. And I was just able to sort of organically expand on that idea.
- [16:47]
Alison Stewart
When I read this, I thought it was so interesting because in the book, the idea is that maybe the ghosts were part of the Bronx burning down in 1979, that these were angry ghosts that caused the Bronx to go up in flames. Where did you get that idea?
- [17:05]
Clarence Haynes
I wanted as much as I could to honor real world history. And so I was like, okay, so it's interesting. An early reader, she asked me who I believe she lives in the Bronx. She was like, did this really happen? Was the Bronx really burning? At one point I was like, yes, it was. And so at the same time, I wanted to make reference to it. But then I couldn't fully sort of do a digression into real world history without incorporating what the book is, the narrative of the book. And so I just sort of did this thing that was gonna be a fusion. Fusion that keeps on coming up. That word keeps on coming up. A fusion of real world history and my imaginations.
- [17:45]
Alison Stewart
So. Well, to find out what happens to Gwendolyn and Fonzie and the ghost, you'll have to read the Ghosts of Gwendolyn Montgomery. We asked you, because you are a writer, you are somebody who deals with a lot of writers as a copywriter, to engage in our summer challenge to make some recommendations. So what is a classic that you've been meaning to get to?
- [18:10]
Clarence Haynes
I will say Tar Baby by Toni Morrison. So I have read all of Toni Morrison's novel except for Tar Baby and Paradise, and I think it's just been sitting Tar Baby. Both of those books have been sitting on my shelf because I'm so intimidated to get to them. To immerse yourself in a Morrison work, as people know, it's like, ah, ah, you have to give yourself over. And I think I've been a little frightened to go there.
- [18:33]
Alison Stewart
A book about or set in New York City, you can't use your book. Other people can read your book, but you can't use your book.
- [18:41]
Clarence Haynes
A Love Song for Ricky Wilde by Tia Williams, which is set in Harlem. Florist Musa Harlem. I'm sorry, A young woman, Musa Harlem to open up a flower shop. And there's a mysterious connection to the Harlem Renaissance as she meets a man. And that's all I'll say.
- [19:02]
Alison Stewart
All right. A memory, A memoir or a biography? What did you choose?
- [19:07]
Clarence Haynes
Zami by Audre Lorde. With Zami Lorde was challenging what the concept of memoir biography could be just really iconic work. I think everyone needs to to read Audre Lorde at some point in their life, whether you know her memoir or essays or anything. So that was like a no brainer for me.
- [19:28]
Alison Stewart
A recent debut novel, the Fantasies of.
- [19:32]
Clarence Haynes
Future Things by Doug Jones. Actually know Doug. We go way back to Columbia and this is about two gay men navigating their feelings for each other during in Atlanta Preparing for the 19. So it deals a lot with issues of gentrification, displacement, politics, that sort of thing. So sounds great. Beautiful and beautiful writing. He's a beautiful writer and I'm currently reading that. I wanted to choose something that I'm in the middle of and a book.
- [20:06]
Alison Stewart
Published in 2025, meet me at the.
- [20:09]
Clarence Haynes
Crossroads by Megan Giddings, which is I had to do a speculative fiction shout out. So it takes basically I'm also in the middle of reading this. Basically these mysterious doors appear and there's a lot of exploration around ideas of spirituality and religion and one's place in the world. And so I just again, this is another one where I just find the writing to be beautiful and really engaging. I'm not sure where it's going, but I have to give her props.
- [20:50]
Alison Stewart
People can find out more about our Summer Reading Challenge by going to WNYC SummerReading. You can add to your list a book out in 2025. It's the Ghosts of Gwendolyn Montgomery. It is by Clarence Haynes. He has an event Friday, July 11th at 6pm at Sisters Uptown. Thank you for coming into the studio.
- [21:12]
Clarence Haynes
Thank you so much for having me. Allison.
- [21:14]
Alison Stewart
Take the next 30 seconds to invest in yourself with Vanguard. Breathe in. Center your mind. Recognize the power you have to direct your financial future. Feel the freedom that comes with reaching your goals and building a life you love. Vanguard brings you this meditation because we invest where it matters most in you. Visit vanguard.com investinginyou to learn more. All investing is subject to risk. NYC now delivers breaking news, top headlines, and in depth coverage from WNYC and Gothamist every morning, midday and evening. By sponsoring our programming, you'll reach a community of passionate listeners in an uncluttered audio experience. Visit sponsorship wnyc.org to learn more.