Podcast Summary: "The Girls on the Bus" Follows Female Campaign Reporters

Podcast: All Of It (WNYC)
Host: Kusha Navadar (in for Alison Stewart)
Guest: Amy Chozick (journalist, author of "Chasing Hillary," creator of "The Girls on the Bus")
Date: March 11, 2024

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode explores the upcoming TV series The Girls on the Bus, inspired by journalist Amy Chozick’s campaign-trail memoir about covering Hillary Clinton and the broader dynamics of political journalism. The discussion delves into the show’s creation, its perspectives on female political reporters, representation of media evolution, and how both the show and real life illuminate the challenges, tensions, and camaraderie of women in media.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Genesis of the Series & Creative Approach

• The show is loosely based on Chozick's 2018 memoir Chasing Hillary, but is set in a fictional universe with no Trump or Hillary.
• Focused on the "found family" dynamic among women political journalists, drawing inspiration from both real events and imagined scenarios.
• “It was very fun to play in a fictional universe where we didn't have to kind of relive all of those things,” – Amy Chozick [02:05].

2. Translating Memoir to Screen: Challenges and Choices

• Decision to fictionalize the world came from early interest from Warner Bros., even before the memoir was finished.
• Difficulties included authentically portraying life on the campaign press bus and combining "soapiness and juiciness" with the realities of journalism.
• External challenges like COVID-19 and industry strikes impacted production.
• “Trying to kind of have soapiness and juiciness within the confines of them being also serious journalists... that was a challenge.” – Amy Chozick [03:50].

3. Homage to “The Boys on the Bus” – Then vs. Now

• The series references Timothy Crouse’s The Boys on the Bus, critiquing and updating its male-centric view of campaign journalism.
• Changes in the nature of journalism: continual deadlines, high-stress fact-checking, eroded public trust, and increased scrutiny.
• “By the time I got my dream job, no one believes what they read in newspapers, you know, and it looks very different.” – Amy Chozick [04:48].

Notable Clip: Discussion of the Romanticized Past

• [06:45] Sadie defends her emotional reporting style and invokes Hunter S. Thompson.
  • Editor: "You gotta stop romanticizing the boys on the bus. Hunter S. Thompson was a legend in 1973. Today, he would be an HR crisis."

4. Portraying the Realities & Camaraderie of the Press Corps

• The show depicts the unglamorous reality: constant travel, low-tier accommodations, unhealthy food, and sacrificed personal lives.
• Real-life friendships and mentor relationships, e.g., Andrea Mitchell and Abby Phillip, influenced storylines.
• Reporters compete but also share deep, personal bonds—even as rivals.

Quote:
“These are women who we shared everything with ... except she better not be looking at my screen to see what I'm working on.” – Amy Chozick [08:12]

5. Competition vs. Cooperation Among Journalists

• The series explores the tension of working alongside competitors—with examples drawn from real collaborative investigative work (e.g., Panama Papers).
• Sometimes, professional rivalries must be set aside for the greater good.

Quote:
“There is a story so big that it pulls them all in.” – Amy Chozick [09:19]

6. Reflecting Changes in Media: Old Guard vs. New Influencers

• Characters are deliberately varied: Sadie (traditional print), Grace (old-school), Lola (influencer/substack/TikTok era), Kimberlyn (conservative Black reporter).
• The Lola character personifies new media: lucrative substacks, influencer status, and viral information.
• News consumption shifting heavily to digital, social platforms.

Quote:
“It was like, especially Lola was. Grace is sort of like old school ... but certainly the Lola character, we were like, updating in real time.” – Amy Chozick [10:50]

7. Importance of Representation & Authenticity

• Natasha Benham (Lola) is Persian; scripts incorporate Farsi and reflect her real background.
• Her backstory nods to real-life activist-journalists like Emma Gonzalez.
• Decisions about character nuances were collaborative with actors for authenticity.

Quote:
“Lola started out in our minds like an Emma Gonzales: when the media has moved on to the next tragedy ... what do they do? So we thought, okay, well, Lola channels that into activism in the form of journalism.” – Amy Chozick [12:32]

8. Making Journalism Accessible & Relatable

• Lola’s "outsider" status serves as a narrative device to explain journalistic jargon and processes to the audience.
• Characters' learning moments double as exposition for viewers.

Quote:
“For Lola to help us explain, hopefully taking viewers along into this world.” – Amy Chozick [13:43]

9. Navigating Political Division On-Screen

• The show includes scenes addressing campus hostility toward conservative journalists, inspired by real, timely issues.
• Research and consulting informed character development, particularly for Kimberlyn.
• The writing strives to fairly present debates around authenticity vs. objectivity, cancel culture, and free speech.

Notable Moment:

• [16:47] Kimberlyn: "Words are not violent. Get out of here."
• [17:01] Amy Chozick: “We really don't. I don't know the answer. ... These are debates that are sort of happening in the ether and we put them into these girls mouths.”

10. Idealism vs. Realism

• The show leans toward idealism, inspired partly by the uplifting tone of The West Wing.
• Offers hope, camaraderie, and escapism, balanced by admissions of the dark realities facing journalism.

Quote:
“I think we wanted an idealism and a hope and an escapism.” – Amy Chozick [18:30]

11. Unique Pressures on Women in Journalism

• The series confronts the gendered double-standards and personal sacrifices faced by women reporters, from work-life imbalance to social expectations.
• Chozick relates her own experiences: timing life events like pregnancy around election cycles, a consideration rarely made by male colleagues.

Quote:
“These women's lives are all completely ... their personal lives. Well, Sadie can't even really have a relationship, but she tells her mom, the road is my home. And her mom's like, okay, Jack Kerouac.” – Amy Chozick [20:37]

12. Reflecting on Contemporary Society

• The show addresses current, urgent topics: abortion access post-Dobbs, political polarization, continuing lack of a woman president.
• Writers had to continually adapt storylines as real-world laws and politics shifted.

Quote:
“We had to actually post-Dobbs, look at the map and figure out where to set this episode. So I think that is very relevant ... still no woman president.” – Amy Chozick [21:51]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On crafting fiction from reality:
  “As soon as the book reached Warner Brothers and Greg Berlanti, we decided, there's no Trump, there's no Hillary in this world. Let's just play in a fictional universe and focus on this chapter called the Girls on the Bus...” – Amy Chozick [02:05]

• On the press bus environment:
  “Yes, the job is prestigious, but it's totally unglamorous. Right. They're checking into a different Marriott every night … their personal lives are like a dumpster fire because they've committed their lives to covering these candidates.” – Amy Chozick [07:16]

• On debate around objectivity:
  “Every time Lola would make an argument and say objectivity … When you're coming for my rights, it's impossible to pretend to be objective. And ... Grace would say, if you're saying I can't be objective, I can't do my job … so I think that scene was one of those ... debates.” – Amy Chozick [17:01]

• On choosing idealism:
  “I certainly think there's no way you can watch our fictional primary and not think, ‘Oh, this is an escape.’” – Amy Chozick [18:30]

Timeline of Important Segments

• 00:24 – Introduction to the episode and guest Amy Chozick.
• 01:50 – How covering Hillary Clinton influenced Chozick’s worldview.
• 03:00 – Transition from memoir to potential TV series.
• 04:28 – Discussion of The Boys on the Bus influence and modern journalism’s evolution.
• 06:00 - 07:04 – Clip: Sadie debates her editor about emotion in journalism.
• 07:16 – Authentic, unglamorous life on the campaign press bus.
• 08:12 – Real-life press corps friendships and competition.
• 10:50 – Representation of emerging media and real-time script adaptations.
• 12:17 - 13:28 – The Lola character: authenticity, Farsi, and inspiration.
• 14:36 – Portraying behind-the-scenes journalism for the average viewer.
• 16:10 - 16:52 – Clip: Kimberlyn challenges candidates, faces political hostility.
• 17:01 – Writing into current political debates, giving all sides a voice.
• 18:13 - 19:25 – Idealism in portrayal of journalism vs. real-life realities.
• 20:26 - 21:30 – Unique gendered pressures for women on the campaign trail.
• 21:51 – Show’s direct reflection of current events, laws, and the ongoing lack of a woman president.

Tone & Language

Throughout the episode, the tone is warm, thoughtful, and occasionally humorous. Both host and guest stress authenticity and empathy, with Chozick's perspective balancing appreciation for the messiness, hardship, and importance of campaigning reporting with a belief in the power of storytelling and hope.