Podcast Summary: "The Gods of New York" Spotlights the '80s

Podcast: All Of It (WNYC)
Host: Alison Stewart
Guest: Jonathan Mahler (The New York Times Magazine Staff Writer, Author)
Air Date: September 4, 2025

Overview

This episode of "All Of It" explores the seismic changes in New York City from 1986 to 1990, a pivotal span of years that, as argued by guest Jonathan Mahler, birthed the modern city we recognize today. Bouncing off Mahler’s new book, The Gods of New York: Egotists, Idealists, Opportunists and the Birth of the Modern City, 1986-1990, the show travels through key social, political, cultural, and economic shifts—featuring everything from Wall Street’s explosive growth and the AIDS crisis, to race relations, gentrification, and the rise of outsized personalities like Ed Koch, Donald Trump, and Al Sharpton.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Framing the Era: Why 1986-1990 Matters

• Jonathan Mahler's Thesis:

  • “It was really a year where there was a kind of a struggle for the identity of New York. And the years, I would say, when New York really kind of made the transformation... into a city really powered by Wall Street, by finance, by real estate, and we're still living in that city today.” (03:07)
  • Koch's final term as mayor makes for a "narrative spine" (03:07)
  • The era marked the move from a working-class city to one defined by income extremes.

• Key Events Reference:

  • The Wall Street boom and bust (Black Monday)
  • AIDS crisis and activism
  • Crack epidemic and spikes in crime
  • Racialized incidents and legal cases: Howard Beach, Tawana Brawley, Yusuf Hawkins, Bernie Goetz, Preppy Murder (01:30-03:07)

Misconceptions About the Transformation

• People assume NYC was always a city of “rich and poor, with a hollowed out middle class,” but it crystallized in the 1980s due to deliberate policy choices:
  • “...big tax breaks to real estate developers, big tax breaks to corporations...” (07:06)
• Donald Trump’s real crucible was 1980s New York tabloid culture, not The Apprentice:
  • “You need to go back to 1980s New York, to the sort of tabloid culture of New York then, and to... that was really Donald Trump's crucible.” (04:42)

The Shadows of the Seventies

• “This book is kind of the chapter after the 70s... All the factories had closed... deindustrialization... And you know, everyone remembers the kind of iconic images of New York from the 70s...” (08:07)
• Recovery strategies included deregulation and courting big finance—a “rebirth” that was selective and left many behind.

Reaganomics Meets New York

• Deregulation and tax cuts from Washington (Reagan) fueled risk-taking on Wall Street and the rise of real estate wealth. Trickledown economics did not benefit most New Yorkers. (09:24)

Media and the Rise of Personality Politics

• The tabloid press (Post, Daily News, Newsday) empowered unelected figures—Trump, Sharpton—to shape the city's narrative:
  • “If you could kind of capture the tabloids, you could capture the city... that's sort of where Donald Trump learned how to... control a story, how to basically grab hold of the public's attention.” (10:18)
  • “I call them the gods of New York... They're like Greek gods with New York as their Mount Olympus.” (10:18-12:04)

Lived Memories: Callers & Listeners Respond

• Listeners describe firsthand experiences ranging from high school protests and hospital closures in the Koch era to volunteering with the Guardian Angels or working in the arts during the AIDS crisis. (12:43, 22:27, 28:14)
• “My kids cannot comprehend how seedy it was. It was crazy intriguing. And now it is all gone.” (12:13)

Ed Koch: From Celebrity Mayor to Target

• Koch was initially beloved and globally known but lost favor mid-to-late term as the costs and inequalities of the city’s “rebirth” emerged:
  • “He was the mayor of New York, but he was just known as the mayor all over the world... the city really turned on him.” (14:19)
• Hospital closures due to budget cuts left NYC unready for AIDS:
  • “...had to close hospitals... Of course, that happened just before the AIDS epidemic arrived... Koch gets blamed by the activist community and by others, too for having kind of failed to deal with the AIDS crisis.” (14:19)
• Koch’s sexuality and its political impact were discussed:
  • “He actually felt the need to come out and say, I am not a homosexual.” (17:23)
  • “At the time, I mean, the mayor of New York felt that he could not be out.” (18:09)

Scandal, Corruption, and the Press

• Parking Violations Bureau Scandal detailed—a suicide, FBI investigation, and city-wide speculation. (15:53)

Wall Street’s 1980s Boom

• “Wall Street starts going absolutely bonkers. It starts gobbling up... all the empty office space.... all that money, that Wall street and the bonuses, of course, drives the real estate market.” (20:51)
• Explains the origins of the real estate boom, stratification, and gentrification.

AIDS Crisis and Activism

• AIDS described as “incredibly visible on the street... like a war zone,” allowing an “expression of homophobic violence” due to governmental neglect. (23:22)
• Personal accounts of activism, fear, homophobia, and survival from actors, artists, and those who became activists/lawyers. (28:14)

Benjamin Ward: First Black Police Commissioner

• Ward faced entrenched police racism, limited resources, and the crack epidemic:
  • “...just kind of barely able to keep his head above water.” (26:53)

Tompkins Square Park Riot

• Riot stemmed from the imposition of a curfew as East Village gentrified—“punks, anarchists, radicals” collided with police and gentrifiers. (29:33-31:27)
• “[Ward] courageously accused his own police department of real brutality.” (31:27)
• The aftermath saw the park close, signaling a broader social shift in the city.

Gentrification and Legacy

• The origins of citywide gentrification, as seen in the East Village, quickly spread:
  • “Like Domino's... that process started in the 80s with this... ‘rebirth.’ And it just spread across the city and has been spreading across the city ever since then.” (34:18)
• Today’s income inequality and political landscape “very much a direct reaction to this, to what started in 1980s New York...” (34:45)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the defining change:

  • “...decisions were made that kind of created this New York. And I think it's kind of important to, to identify that moment.” – Jonathan Mahler (04:42)

• On AIDS crisis and Koch’s closeted status:

  • “He actually felt the need to come out and say, I am not a homosexual... the mayor of New York felt that he could not be out. So we've come a long way since then.“ – Jonathan Mahler (17:23-18:09)

• On the transformation of New York:

  • “A city of skyscrapers, the city of Trump Tower... the 80s was a story of the rebirth of New York... but a lot of people were left out of this rebirth.” – Jonathan Mahler (08:07)

• Caller reflection:

  • “Some said that they were terrifying, but they were also joyous... friends were getting sick and dying, including a fellow cast member... here I am, 37 years later, still alive, still HIV positive, had quite a wonderful life.” – Eddie, Manhattan (28:14)

• On Wall Street's boom:

  • “Wall street starts going absolutely bonkers... New York kind of gradually becomes a Wall street city. And then all that money... drives the real estate market.” – Jonathan Mahler (20:51)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro & setting the stage – 00:08-02:52
• Mahler on choosing 1986-1990 as pivotal years – 03:07
• What people misunderstand about 80s NYC – 04:42
• The policy origins of income inequality – 07:06
• Connection to the 1970s & selective 'rebirth' – 08:07
• Impact of Reaganomics – 09:24
• The power of the tabloids and rise of 'gods' – 10:18
• Listener memory: seedy old Times Square – 12:13
• Callers recall 80s high school, city changes, activism – 12:43, 22:27, 28:14
• Ed Koch’s changing reputation and the AIDS crisis – 14:19
• Parking Violations Bureau scandal – 15:53
• Discussion of Koch’s sexuality – 17:23
• Wall Street boom, luxury living, & the rental-to-ownership shift – 20:51
• AIDS activism and visibility – 23:22, 28:14
• Benjamin Ward and policing challenges – 26:53
• Tompkins Square Park riot & gentrification’s start – 29:33
• Today's legacy: ongoing gentrification and politics – 33:25-34:45

Tone & Reflections

The episode blends nostalgia, critique, and lived testimony, with Alison Stewart’s curiosity and energy keeping the conversation lively and deeply rooted in story. Mahler provides perspective with the measured insight of a historian and journalist—always anchoring bold statements in fact and context. The callers, meanwhile, weave in the poignant, the irreverent, and the personal, providing a moving counterpoint to history’s big narrative arcs.

For Further Exploration

Read Jonathan Mahler’s The Gods of New York: Egotists, Idealists, Opportunists and the Birth of the Modern City, 1986-1990 for a deep dive into the period’s personalities, policies, and long-term impact.

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