Podcast Summary

All Of It with Alison Stewart

Episode: The Intertwined Histories of Black and Jewish Americans
Date: February 3, 2026
Guests: Phil Bertelsen & Sarah Wolitzky (Co-directors of PBS documentary "Black and Jewish: An Interwoven History")

Episode Overview

This episode centers on the complex, interwoven history of Black and Jewish Americans as explored in the new PBS documentary "Black and Jewish: An Interwoven History." Host Alison Stewart converses with co-directors Phil Bertelsen and Sarah Wolitzky about shared struggles, mutual support, and points of conflict between these two communities over centuries in the United States. The discussion ranges from Biblical inspiration to civil rights collaboration, to moments of tension and societal change, highlighting how culture, activism, and allyship have ebbed and flowed against the backdrop of American history.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening the Conversation: A Modern Passover Seder

Timestamps: [00:53]–[03:50]

• The PBS series opens at a Passover Seder featuring prominent Black and Jewish intellectuals and artists (Michael Twitty, David Remnick, Jamaica Kincaid, Dr. Henry Louis Gates Jr., and others).
• The meal spotlights how the Exodus story of liberation resonates with both communities.
• Bertelsen notes, "That story from the Old Testament, that story of exodus and liberation is really at the foundation of our community stories." ([02:04], Phil Bertelsen)
• The Seder table is intentionally diverse, including Jews of different backgrounds, underscoring the reality that many individuals identify as both Black and Jewish.

2. Jewish Arrival in America & Early Parallels

Timestamps: [04:00]–[05:57]

• Wolitzky describes the United States as a "promised land" for Jewish immigrants fleeing persecution, while also highlighting early restrictions and the role of religious liberty in America’s founding.
• "This country...was really built on religious liberty, and its caste system was really developed around color and race." ([04:34], Sarah Wolitzky)

3. Old Testament Narratives and Black Liberation

Timestamps: [05:57]–[07:03]

• The Exodus story became a central source of hope for enslaved Black Americans who saw their struggle reflected in the tale of Moses and the Hebrews escaping bondage.
• Phil Bertelsen: "...that Bible story became the beacon of hope, really...It became the foundation and the bedrock of their faith, their faith in Christianity, but also their faith in their own freedom that it would one day come." ([06:16])

4. Migratory Parallels & Media Solidarity

Timestamps: [07:13]–[09:13]

• Between 1881 and 1924, 2.5 million Jews immigrate mainly from Eastern Europe, paralleling the Great Migration of Black Americans from the South.
• The Black and Yiddish press report on each other's struggles, drawing direct comparisons between racist pogroms in Europe and racial terror in America.
• "You'll see in African American papers them reporting on the pogroms in Europe...and Yiddish press will write about race riots and use the word pogrom to describe them." ([08:34], Sarah Wolitzky)
• Bertelsen adds, “There’s a shared understanding of the experience of racial violence and oppression that these two groups share.” ([09:02])

5. The Birth of the NAACP

Timestamps: [09:14]–[10:32]

• The NAACP was co-founded by Black and Jewish leaders after the 1908 Springfield race riot, in response to anti-Black violence and inspired by shared historical suffering.
• Wolitzky details: "At the beginning, it’s basically founded by white and black leaders...a disproportionate number of Jewish founders and board members and supporters in those early years." ([10:06])

6. Black-Jewish Legal Alliance & Unsung Heroes like Esther Brown

Timestamps: [10:37]–[13:06]

• The legal campaign against segregation (Brown v. Board of Education) was a collaborative effort, with Jewish and Black attorneys working together.
• Bertelsen: “...there were black attorneys like Thurgood Marshall and a Jewish attorney, Jack Greenberg, who stayed in the background and let the black leaders lead…” ([10:49])
• The case of Esther Brown, a Jewish housewife, illustrates grassroots allyship. She united with Black families to challenge school segregation in Kansas City.
• "It wasn’t motivated out of being a card carrying member of any organization. It was just seeing injustice." ([11:56], Sarah Wolitzky)
• Bertelsen: “It’s a great example of allyship, which I think the series overall is...promoting..." ([13:06])

7. Pop Culture Intersections: Jazz & Creative Collaboration

Timestamps: [14:00]–[15:40]

• The 1920s saw Black and Jewish communities connecting in creative urban spaces, notably jazz.
• Jewish participation as producers and musicians (e.g., Gershwins, Irving Berlin) helped bring Black art to broader audiences but also introduced power imbalances.
• Bertelsen, quoting Ben Sindrin: "Jews...provided the lattice on which, you know, the ivy was allowed to flourish." ([14:23])
• Stories such as Joe Glaser managing Louis Armstrong reflect deep, complex collaborations.

8. Sources of Tension and Division

Timestamps: [15:40]–[18:28]

• The alliance began to strain post-World War II. Jews gained footholds in the white middle class while physical and socioeconomic distance from Black communities increased.
• Points of conflict: SNCC’s expulsion of white volunteers, debates over Israel post-Six Day War (1967), Ocean Hill-Brownsville school strikes.
• "Their geographic proximity to the black community in a lot of cities is dissipating..." ([16:51], Sarah Wolitzky)
• The rise of Black power sought more autonomous movement for Black Americans, reducing reliance on previous alliances.

9. Reflection, Difficult Questions, and Looking Forward

Timestamps: [19:07]–[20:41]

• Bertelsen reflects on his personal motivation: "A big question I had...was, what happened? How did we get here? ...What happened to [the] allyship?"
• He notes that understanding history is key to fostering hope and promoting new forms of allyship: "...my hope for the series is that it is a, you know, a tale of hope, you know, a cautionary one at worst, but one that suggests that we, you know, are better together than divided." ([19:15])
• The series ends by emphasizing the importance of dialogue and engaging difficult conversations around differences.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "That story from the Old Testament, that story of exodus and liberation is really at the foundation of our community stories."
  — Phil Bertelsen ([02:04])

• "This country...was really built on religious liberty, and its caste system was really developed around color and race."
  — Sarah Wolitzky ([04:34])

• "There’s a shared understanding of the experience of racial violence and oppression that these two groups share."
  — Phil Bertelsen ([09:02])

• "It’s a great example of allyship, which I think the series overall is...promoting the idea of it and the importance of it, particularly in these times."
  — Phil Bertelsen ([13:06])

• "Jews...provided the lattice on which, you know, the ivy was allowed to flourish."
  — Ben Sindrin, quoted by Phil Bertelsen ([14:23])

• "...my hope for the series is that it is a...tale of hope...one that suggests that we, you know, are better together than divided."
  — Phil Bertelsen ([19:15])

Central Timestamps & Segments

| Segment | Timestamps | |----------------------------------------------------|------------------| | Opening: Setting the Table, Passover Seder | [00:53]–[03:50] | | Jewish Arrival & Foundational Parallels | [04:00]–[05:57] | | Exodus in Black Spiritual Life | [05:57]–[07:03] | | Migration, Press & Media Solidarity | [07:13]–[09:13] | | Formation of the NAACP | [09:14]–[10:32] | | Civil Rights Legal Battles & Esther Brown | [10:37]–[13:06] | | Pop Culture & Jazz Collaborations | [14:00]–[15:40] | | Emergence of Tension, Postwar & Black Power | [15:40]–[18:28] | | Lessons, Reflections, and Moving Forward | [19:07]–[20:41] |

Closing Thoughts

This episode provides a nuanced, historically grounded look at the entwined stories of Black and Jewish Americans. Through the lens of the new PBS documentary, listeners gain insight into both the profound solidarities and the difficult divisions that have shaped— and continue to shape— the relationship between these communities. The conversation encourages dialogue about difficult topics, emphasizing that “we are better together than divided” ([19:15], Bertelsen).