The Life and Times of Folk Legend Janis Ian

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The Life and Times of Folk Legend Janis Ian"

All Of It is a captivating episode hosted by Alison Stewart on WNYC's ALL OF IT podcast, which delves into the rich tapestry of culture and its creators. In this episode, released on March 27, 2025, Stewart engages in an enlightening conversation with folk legend Janis Ian and the documentary's director, Varda Barkar, discussing the newly released documentary "Janis Breaking Silence."

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Introduction to the Documentary

The episode kicks off with Alison Stewart introducing Janis Ian, highlighting her early success with songs like "Society's Child," "Fly Too High," and "At 17." Stewart provides context about the documentary, emphasizing its role in chronicling Ian's journey through the transformative decades of the 1960s and 70s.

Notable Quote:

"Society's Child is a song she wrote when she was just 13 years old." [00:52]

The Timing and Relevance of the Documentary

Stewart poses a crucial question about the significance of releasing the documentary in the current era. Janis Ian responds by drawing parallels between the social upheavals of the 60s and today's societal challenges, underscoring the timeless nature of resilience and individual impact on societal change.

Notable Quote:

"Having a story that is pretty much based on resilience and what one human can do to effect change in a society is very relevant." [02:04]

Depicting the Era Through Personal Narrative

Janis Ian elaborates on the documentary's aim to reflect not just her personal experiences but also the broader cultural and social dynamics of the times. She emphasizes that the film offers younger audiences insights into the struggles and triumphs of being a woman, an artist, and an individual with a distinct identity during the mid to late 20th century.

Notable Quote:

"You walk out with a real sense of what it was to be a woman, to be gay, to be an artist in the United States." [03:27]

Navigating Personal Privacy in Public Storytelling

A significant portion of the conversation centers on Ian's willingness to expose her private life through the documentary. She reflects on her history of candid songwriting, noting the challenges and surreal feelings of seeing her personal stories portrayed on screen.

Notable Quote:

"It's very strange. It's disconcerting when people tell you about parts of your life and you realize it's in a movie." [04:08]

The Making of the Documentary

Director Varda Barkar shares her personal connection to Janis Ian's music, recounting how Ian's album "Between the Lines" deeply influenced her during high school. Barkar details her persistent efforts to collaborate with Ian, eventually aligning their visions for a film that honors both Ian's legacy and the cultural context of her music.

Notable Quote:

"Janice's music sort of became part of my DNA." [05:13]

Collaborative Synergy Between Ian and Barkar

The dialogue highlights the organic collaboration between Ian and Barkar, emphasizing mutual respect and a shared vision for the documentary. Janis expresses gratitude for Barkar's understanding of her desire to focus on the broader societal impact of her work rather than a self-celebratory narrative.

Notable Quote:

"Varda understood that I wanted it to reflect the times, that the work would reflect the times." [05:41]

Inclusion of Feminist Icons and Broader Cultural Figures

Ian discusses the documentary's inclusion of interviews with prominent feminist figures like Joan Baez, Jean Smart, Lily Tomlin, and herself, reinforcing the film's intent to portray a collective cultural movement.

Notable Quote:

"We were asking people like Joan Baez who had stopped doing interviews, and they said yes for me." [06:30]

The Impact of Artists on Society

The conversation delves into the profound role artists play in shaping and reflecting societal values. Ian emphasizes her view of artists as servants to the community, using her music to give voice to underrepresented and marginalized experiences.

Notable Quote:

"Artists have a lineage that goes back to the very first person who told a story around a campfire." [09:00]

Audience Engagement and Personal Stories

Throughout the episode, listeners' stories are interwoven, adding a personal dimension to the discussion. Janis shares anecdotes about her early performances and the emotional realization of her audience truly listening to her music, highlighting pivotal moments in her career.

Notable Quote:

"When I was 16, I realized firsthand that people were really listening to every word." [12:35]

Reflections on Musical Evolution and Activism

Ian reflects on her artistic growth from adolescence into adulthood, discussing the deliberate evolution of her songwriting and vocal techniques. The conversation also touches on the enduring nature of protest music, with Ian praising contemporary artists like Kendrick Lamar and advocating for the importance of authentic, truth-driven lyrics.

Notable Quote:

"There is more protest music now than there ever was. It's just harder to find." [22:10]

Conclusion and Future Prospects

As the episode wraps up, both Ian and Barkar express their hopes that the documentary will not only resonate with existing fans but also attract new audiences. They highlight the richness of Ian's body of work and the documentary's role in showcasing lesser-known but powerful songs.

Notable Quote:

"There's so much in there that people are going to learn about." [17:31]

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Final Thoughts

Alison Stewart deftly navigates the conversation, allowing Janis Ian and Varda Barkar to explore the intersections of personal narrative, cultural context, and artistic legacy. The episode serves as both an informative and emotional journey, offering listeners a comprehensive understanding of Janis Ian's impact on music and society through the lens of her latest documentary.

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Listeners interested in exploring Janis Ian's life and contributions further are encouraged to watch "Janis Breaking Silence," opening on March 28 at IFC Center and New Plaza Cinema.

Transcript

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[WNYC Studios Announcer]

Listener Supported WNYC Studios Come to my.

[Janice Ian's Song]

Door baby faces clean and shining black as night. My mother went to answer you know that you look so fine now I could understand your tears and your shame.

[Host]

That is Grammy Award winning singer Janice Ian's Society's Child, a song she wrote when she was just 13 years old and went on to record other smash hits like Fly Too high and at 17. Throughout the 60s and 70s. There's a new documentary about her life and career out now. It's titled Janice Breaking Silence. The film starts with her demanding piano lessons from her father as a toddler. We also see her jamming with musicians like Pete Seeger, Jimi Hendrix, janis Joplin in 1960s Greenwich Village and pursuing a career in the music industry in the 70s. The documentary also features interviews with other feminist icons like Joan Baez, Jean Smart, Lily Tomlin, Janice Ian. Breaking Silence opens at IFC center and New Plaza Cinema tomorrow. That's Friday. Joining us to talk about the film is Janice Ian and the film's director, Varda Barkar. Welcome to both of you.

[Janice Ian]

Thank you. Good to be here.

[Varda Barkar]

Yeah.

[Host]

Let's talk about the documentary and why it's a good time to do it right now. Janice, why now?

[Janice Ian]

Well, it was actually three years in the making, so I don't know how.

[Host]

Now it is, why yesterday?

[Janice Ian]

But I think having something like this come out right now in a time of great social upheaval, certainly as upheaving as the 60s were, if not more. And having a story that is pretty much based on resilience and what one human can do to effect change in a society is very relevant. I think Varda is right with the.

[Host]

Zeitgeist and it does cover, of course, obviously your life, it's about you, but it does cover a very particular period in time that you mention is a lot like today, just paint a picture for folks who may not have lived through it.

[Janice Ian]

So I think one of the wonderful things about the film is that if you are young and we are getting a surprising amount of young people who only know me through Mean Girls or through Saturday Night Live's first episode, they're coming and they're walking out feeling like they have learned something about those eras that they're not getting from other places. Varda has done an amazing job. The goal originally was not to make it a puff piece about how fabulous I am, but to construct it so that the work would reflect the times and the times would reflect the work. So you walk out, I am told, with a real sense of what it was to be a woman, to be gay, to be an artist in the United states in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s.

[Host]

I wonder how it is to talk about your private life, though. It is about. It is some. About your private life. It is, yeah. And you haven't done it up to this point. So I'm just curious how that experience was.

[Janice Ian]

Well, I think I exposed a lot of myself when I came out. And I've always written songs like at 17, which are very much my life. The one thing that I do a little bit better than my contemporaries is talk about things that are difficult for people to talk about themselves. So at 17, Jesse, society's child, all serve that function. For me, seeing it on a big screen, I'm not gonna pretend it's very weird. It's disconcerting.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Janice Ian]

I more disconcerting when people come up and tell you about parts of your life and you go, oh, my God, how did you know that? And then you suddenly realize, oh, because it's in a movie. It's a very strange feeling.

[Host]

Yeah, I'm sure. Varda talk about your introduction to Janice and her music. And I would assume you were a fan of her music long before you actually met her. But how did this all come together?

[Varda Barkar]

Oh, yes. When I was in high school, someone had given me the album between the Lines, and I probably was about 16 or 17 at that time. And I put it on and just started to cry. And I listened to it over and over and over again, and I cried because I felt so seen and heard by that music. And it was very affirming of the feelings and emotions that I was having at the time. So I think that her music, Janice's music, sort of became part of my DNA. So when it came time, when the idea to make the film arose, it came from a very deep place.

[Host]

How did you pitch the idea to her?

[Janice Ian]

Annoyingly, again and again and again and again and again.

[Varda Barkar]

Yes. I think eventually I wore Janice down in particular, because we are very aligned in the idea of doing her life. Her times and her music was something that Janice really related to and had the same desire. So there was a lot of alignment there.

[Janice Ian]

There was a great deal of harassment, actually. She called and she texted and she emailed, and she just kept saying she thought it was a great idea. And I had just walked away from another film that somebody wanted to make about my life. And I had decided that it wasn't in the cards. But the more that we talked, the more it made sense. Varda understood that I wanted it to reflect the times, that I wanted it to be a film and not have just to do with me. I understood that my job would be to do some interviews and then stay very far away and let her have her head. And it just came together pretty organically. As much as I dislike that word, yes, absolutely.

[Varda Barkar]

It really flowed. It was an amazing experience making the film. And I grew as a filmmaker and as a person by virtue of Janice's example. Really.

[Janice Ian]

Thank you. And we had great people. I mean, we were asking people to do it that had stopped doing interviews, like Joan Baez had stopped doing interviews for a period. But the moment that she heard it was for me, she said yes. And that was a surprise. Laurie Metcalfe was in the middle of half a dozen things, and she said yes. Arlo doesn't talk to anybody if he can avoid it, and he said yes. So everything kind of came together all at once in a perfect way during.

[Host]

COVID Yeah, a lot of things happened in Covid like this. Were you at the time, I mean, Janice mentioned the zeitgeist that you kind of tapped into. Were you at all thinking about that as you were pitching this to her?

[Varda Barkar]

Yes, most definitely. I mean, in particular, I was thinking about the female identity and how women are represented in film. And I really wanted to make a story about an artist who, you know, is intelligent, who is complex, who has agency, depth. And, you know, Janice was someone who I personally identified with and thought it was important also her Jewish heritage. At that time, there were people marching in the streets saying, Jews will not replace us, which I responded to in a very visceral manner. And I really wanted to tell the story also, not just of a woman, but a Jewish woman, to show her contribution to society and the importance of her contribution to our society.

[Janice Ian]

I think, for me, also, in watching it now, it's really important to remember the role that artists play in society and what an important function we have, and that basically, as I get older, I realize more and more I am in service to the community. That doesn't mean that I don't write what I want or say what I want, but the work is there for a purpose well beyond me earning a living. And if you have a song like seventeen, which has entered the public consciousness and is so important to so many people and has made so many young people, male and female, feel like somebody heard them, somebody sees them, then that's a great thing to bring to the screen because it gives people hope.

[Host]

To your point, Janice, we have a text here that says, Janice, I'm 70 and you were the soundtrack to my life. Your songs made me empathetic and a better person.

[Janice Ian]

Wow, that's a. That's a lovely thing to say.

[Host]

It is a lovely thing to say. How does that feel? Gosh, that's gotta feel good.

[Janice Ian]

It does feel good, and it reminds me of all the people that did that for me. I don't mean to sound disingenuous, but when I was growing up, I was watching people like Pete Seeger or Joan Baez or Billie Holiday or poets like Dylan Thomas and T.S. eliot. Whatever you think of them now, they are great artists. And I was watching them and being influenced by them. And I was watching the way Pete and Woody in particular, Ronnie Gilbert, people like that have tried to better the society and the people around them. So to be part of that lineage, it's extraordinary if you think of it artists, our lineage goes back to the very first person who told a story around a campfire. That's tens of thousands of years.

[Host]

Yeah. Listeners, if you have a story you'd like to share with Janice, or perhaps a song that you feel resonated with you, something inspires you, memories you have, you can call us, you can text us at 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. We open the film. We see in the films Open or close to the Open, the late conductor and composer Leonard Bernstein. Right. Introducing you right before you perform Society's child. It's in 1967. It's on the CBS television special Inside Pop the Rock Revolution. So I want to hear a little bit about that again, and I want to ask you about that experience.

[Janice Ian]

Bernstein was coming out of a culture that insisted that only Europe had real culture. Most Americans went abroad to study and to learn culture if they could, and it was considered somewhat nouveau riche. If you were a singer, songwriter, certainly that was beneath contempt. But if you were writing for Broadway, if you were a George and Ira Gershwin, for instance, that wasn't considered real music. It was considered something that ignorant young people enjoyed. And Bernstein really worked hard, not just with his young people's concerts, when they would expose a lot of American composers to audiences, but also with shows like this to insist that American music, not just jazz, but also folk music, was a proper form and was something that we needed as a community. And I think that's why he went ahead and featured the song is in looking back on it now. He features it for, I think, 10 minutes, which is an incredible slice of time in a 60 minute special on a Sunday night.

[Host]

Yeah, let's hear a little bit of it again.

[Janice Ian's Song]

She says I can't see you anymore I can't see you anymore Walk me down to school, baby Everybody's acting deaf on the line until they turn and say why don't you stick to your own kind? My teachers all laugh. They're smirking.

[Host]

Janice, you talk about understanding at this point in your life the lineage that you are a part of and how far back in time that goes. When. When you wrote that song, you were very young.

[Janice Ian]

I was 14.

[Host]

Did you understand. Have any concept of that thing? Yeah.

[Janice Ian]

No, I wanted to be a Beatle. I thought the cool thing would be to write songs and make a record and then get to walk down the street and have everybody want your autograph. And then when I was 16, I was doing the Berkeley Folk Festival, and I had just worked with Big Brother and the Holding Company in Joplin, and all of a sudden the audience got quiet. And I realized, it sounds ridiculous, but I realized for the first time that they were really listening to every word. And it scared me.

[Host]

Janice, I want to bring a fan, a caller, a listener into the conversation. Great. We have Tom in Manhattan. Hi, Tom.

[Tom (Caller)]

Hi, Janice.

[Janice Ian]

Hi, Tom.

[Tom (Caller)]

So. So I'm not sure if you even remember this, but. Cassie, cast your mind back to New Jersey. Cast your mind to your being. I can't imagine. You was. You were over 14 years old, and. And you were at what. What must have been a hoot. Nanny. I was there to see a bluegrass band of my friends, and you performed. And I don't think you were over 14. I think you were.

[Janice Ian]

Well, I left. I left New Jersey when I was 14, so I don't know. And the only gigs that I remember in New Jersey was, were that when I lived in East Orange, I used to force a bunch of student nurses to listen to me because they. Their dorms were across the street. And then my first gig in New Jersey was $39 a weekend for nine shows, and 38 of it went on bus fare. So I'm afraid I don't remember, but thank you, Tom.

[Host]

You were on stage. You had a sort of laundry list of folks there, and I'm sure you know, Tom remembers you playing along with other folks. What is it like to look back at that time in the Village or wherever, whenever, with those people, Pete Seeger, and now, looking back with the history that you have on those relationships and their music and what it meant, what it did for you? And I just. I think so many of us, me included, romanticized that time and how incredible it must have been to be on that stage with you and with those musicians. And it was such a.

[Janice Ian]

Like, I don't know that you can romanticize it, because it was a great time. And I don't think I am romanticizing it. The closest thing I've ever gotten back to it was when I moved to Nashville in 86, 88. It was a great time. You could be in the Village, and particularly if you were a performer, you could go club hopping. There was one night when I went and I saw John Sebastian and his band, and then I went to see Frank Zappa, and then I went to watch B.B. king, and then I went to watch Jimi Hendrix, and then I went to watch a couple of other bands, all in the space of eight hours. So it was an amazing time. And it was. It was a fantastic time for cross fertilization because you had people like Elizabeth Suedos starting out. You had people like Kathy Babarian starting out, Lucien Berio on the opposite end of the spectrum to people like me. And audiences were small. Nobody expected it to become what Dave Van Ronk called the great folk scare. You know, 80 people was considered a lot of people. Everybody knew everybody. It sounds romanticized, but it wasn't. Record companies were still full of people who loved music. And not that they were gonna give us any money because they loved music, but they did love music. People still signed people because they loved their work. And you have to remember also that we were fighting a whole bunch of battles nobody else was fighting. Like the guy who used to squire me around, Larry Martiri, who was a maid guy with the Mafia. Larry also would spend his vacations traveling across country with a trunk full of what were called race records, trying to get white stations to play black music. So there was all of that weirdness, too. It was a great time. I'm very grateful for it.

[Host]

Yeah. Let's talk with Edward in Manhattan. Hi, Edward.

[Edward (Caller)]

Hi. Hey, Janice.

[Janice Ian]

Hi.

[Edward (Caller)]

I don't know if you remember me, but back in the 70s, when you lived in the Philadelphia area, this is ages ago. You were. I met you through my friend Randy, and we used to hang out in your apartment after school.

[Janice Ian]

Sure. Jerry Weiss's and one time.

[Edward (Caller)]

Yeah, and one time we took you to high school.

[Janice Ian]

Entirely possible. But I have to say my memories of the 60s and 70s are vaguer than one would hope. But thank you.

[Host]

There's a lot of reasons that our memories are vaguer than we would hope.

[Janice Ian]

And it's not all age.

[Host]

And it's not all age related. All right, Barda, just getting back, circling back to the film for a second. So what, what will fans of Janis see in this film that they may not have seen or heard or thought about before?

[Varda Barkar]

Well, from what I've gathered from people who have seen the film during our festival run, there's a lot in there that people didn't know about and don't know about. And I'm hoping that her fans will enjoy the film. I'm sure her fans will enjoy the film, actually. And that people beyond her fans, she will now have many more fans beyond her fans at this point who can learn about her and her times and experience her music. In the film, we learn about aspects of her personal life, some of her struggles, ways she overcame them. There's so much in there that people are going to learn about. There's not enough time for me to describe it. So what I welcome is people come and see the film and discover for themselves.

[Host]

Janice, we have a text here. I just had to pull over after hearing Society's Child. Yes, Be safe immediately. Society's Child we're talking about. It immediately transported me back to 1988 when my 12 year old self first heard your work on a cassette tape called Singers and Songwriters. I was listening on my yellow Walkman in the backseat of a beat up Peugeot driving through France with my parents. At the time, I didn't know why the song resonated with me, but I knew I loved it.

[Janice Ian]

What a great story. In the back of a Peugeot driving through France.

[Varda Barkar]

Wow.

[Janice Ian]

Music's the great universal, you know, it's the invisible art. It's the only one that you can take everywhere. All it needs is one human being with a voice or a stick or a pair of hands, anything. It's great.

[Host]

Yeah. I mean, to your point, right. It goes back to the first time someone decided to like put a little lyric and whatever they want, tell a story with whatever they were. Well, we have been talking a little bit about some of your influential music, of course, Society's Child. One that I think a lot of folks will Remember is at 17. So let's just listen to a little clip and jangle some people's memories.

[WNYC Studios Announcer]

I learned the truth at 17 that love was meant for beauty queens and high school girls with clear skin smiles who married young and then retired. The Valentine's. I never.

[Host]

I was singing that all last night. Just so, you know, not nearly as good as that, but, you know, my dogs didn't care.

[Janice Ian]

Oh, my dog doesn't care either.

[Host]

Yeah. Okay, good. I hear a difference. I think a lot of people hear a difference in your voice. Obviously, you were 14 versus when you recorded at 17.

[Janice Ian]

Huge difference.

[Host]

Huge difference. I'm just curious how you look at your evolution as an artist from one song to another.

[Janice Ian]

Wow. That's a big question. I think as a songwriter, I draw lines from song to song. Like, I draw a definite line from Jesse to stars to at 17. I draw a line from at 17 to resist. On the last album, as a singer, one of the things that people don't usually realize is just how hard singers work to develop the voice that they hear in their heads so that they can hear it on tape. That takes a lot of work. Yeah.

[Host]

I mean, I think you said in the film, like, at first you were trying to sound like somebody else.

[Janice Ian]

Anybody else.

[Host]

Yeah, anybody. Then you were trying to sound like somebody. I mean, that's kind of what we. You know, isn't that a little bit of what we do when we're young is we try on all of these outfits and go, okay, which one of these selves am I?

[Janice Ian]

Yeah. That's why it's really important to let your children do that. One of the acting classes Stella Adler used to put us through was decide to be somebody else for the day. Go get some scrubs, get on the subway and be a doctor and just be a doctor for the day. Inhabit somebody else's skin and learn what it feels like to be that person. Because society looks at what you're wearing and identifies you. So then embrace all of that, and somehow you will find who you are through all of that.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Varda Barkar]

Listening to that, I just want to add, to answer your earlier question, I think one thing that fans will discover when watching the film is the breadth and depth of the body of Janice's music. Beyond these iconic songs that everyone talks about and knows about, there's a lot of songs that she's written that are so powerful and so incredible. Beyond these two amazing songs, I'm excited, you know, for audiences to discover those.

[Janice Ian]

I hope that people like Pink turn around and say, I want to record Resist. There you go. That's my pitch for the day.

[Host]

I like it.

[Janice Ian]

I know. Wouldn't that be Great.

[Host]

That actually would be really great.

[Janice Ian]

Yeah, she'd be perfect.

[Host]

She would. Well, let's hope she's listening. How do you feel? We touched a little bit on activism and music and how do you feel about. Speaking of resist, how do you feel about activism in music today?

[Janice Ian]

I think what Kendrick Lamar did was pretty astonishing. And I think that people my age have to be educated, just as my grandparents had to be educated to understand what was going on. I get a lot of people saying, oh, there's no real protest music. There's no real protest singers. And that's so wrong. That's so incorrect. There is more of that than there ever was. But there's also so much out there that very often it's hard to find it. You have to look for it. And then again, when I was 10 years old or 11 years old, there was only one station in all of New Jersey playing that music one hour a week. So I had to look for it, too.

[Host]

I want to go out on a song that's one of. Because I can. It's one of my personal favorites.

[Janice Ian]

Good for you.

[Host]

Only because I love the lyric. Some people's lives run down like clouds.

[Janice Ian]

I love that lyric.

[Host]

Just really quickly, in the last 45 seconds. What is it about that lyric that you and I both love and we know a whole bunch of other people love?

[Janice Ian]

I think one of the things that makes a song persist is there's an element of truth to it, and the truth resonates. You can tell when somebody is lying to you.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Janice Ian]

You can tell when somebody is lying in their music. And some people's lives. People who see the film will see the story was written for a very real person named Mary Miller.

[Host]

Right.

[Janice Ian]

And.

[Host]

And you'll see this in the film.

[Janice Ian]

Yeah. And we wrote it straight from the heart. We wrote it over four blindingly busy days. I have never worked that hard in that concentrated way over a song, and I. You picked one of my personal favorites.

[Host]

I might Cry Now.

[Janice Ian]

Oh, don't cry.

[Varda Barkar]

And this is one of those songs that I was talking about that people will discover.

[Host]

Yeah. The film is. And your chance to discover it is in Janice Ian, Breaking Silence. It's a new film that opens tomorrow, Friday, March 28, at IFC center and New Plaza Cinema. We've been talking with Janice Ian and director Varda Barkar. Thank you so much.

[Janice Ian]

Thank you.

[Varda Barkar]

Thank you.

[Janice Ian]

Good one.

[WNYC Studios Announcer]

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