← All Of It with Alison Stewart
All Of It with Alison Stewart
The Long Awaited Return of 'Severance'
00:29:54
"Severance" actors Tramell Tillman, who plays the charming yet sinister Mr. Milchik, and Britt Lower, who plays Helly, to discuss the new season.
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- [00:00]
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- [00:38]
David Fuerst
This is all of it. I'm David Fuerst in for Alison Stewart. On today's show, we speak with comedian and artist Sam Kisajukian about his new show, 300 Paintings, which is running at the Vineyard Theater. We'll learn about some upcoming Lunar New Year events happening in Queens, and we'll be joined by a New York Times reporter for a primer on the TikTok ban. That's the plan. But right now it's time to take the elevator down to the severed floor of Lumen Industries. After a three year wait, the series Severance has finally returned for its second season, and things at Lumen Industries are as unsettling and inscrutable as ever. The thriller follows office workers whose minds have undergone a procedure that splits them into two identities, their real life outtie and their innie, who exists only when they enter the office. Except by the end of the last season, those worlds began to blur. We got a little bit closer to the big mystery of whatever might be going on at their company, Lumen. Here is a clip from the first episode of the second season. This is featuring Adam Scott as Mark S. A Lumen employee, and our next guest, Tramell Tillman, as his recently promoted boss, Mr. Milchick. Milchick speaks first.
- [02:05]
Tramell Tillman
I locked you in a room like an animal, Mark as an unsevered man. I'll carry that knowledge the rest of my life. But for the past five months, we've been asking how a sadist like Harmony Cobell could take fertile root in Lumen soil and what that says about us. We also know Ms. Cobell was at your sister's home when you awoke there.
- [02:31]
David Fuerst
Yeah, why was that?
- [02:35]
Tramell Tillman
We believe she developed an erotic fixation on you and had plans to pursue both you and your Audi in what might be termed a throuple.
- [02:44]
Britt Lauer
What?
- [02:46]
David Fuerst
All right, so everything's all better now. Also joining us is Britt Lauer, who plays Helly R. Lumen employee. Season two, Episode two streams today on Apple tv. Tramiel and Brit, welcome to all of it.
- [03:02]
Tramell Tillman
Thank you. Glad to be here.
- [03:04]
Britt Lauer
Thank you for having us.
- [03:06]
David Fuerst
Tramiel. Season one of Severance came out in 2022. That is a long time to go between Seasons. And a lot of fans have been rewatching that first season to refresh their memories to get ready for this. You told the Hollywood Reporter that you did that yourself ahead of the press tour for this season. What surprised you going back and watching that now?
- [03:32]
Tramell Tillman
So much life has happened since we were filming. You know, I look at it, I was like, God, I look like five years younger in season one. We look like babies. But, you know, it was so grateful. I am grateful to be back and glad that we, the team, is all back together and that we get to tell this story on a whole nother level this year. For season two, I was excited about the twists and turns and the information that we're learning about Milchick, about. About Heli, about what the enies are learning about themselves and what we're learning about the company as well. And I'm eager to hear what the audience, how they will respond to it.
- [04:19]
David Fuerst
Well, I watched a bunch of episodes in a row at one point, and I sort of felt like my brain had been permanently altered. I mean, now when I get to work here at WNYC and go up the elevator, I wonder if that's when the work. David, part of my brain kicks in as we become the work version of ourselves and that part of our day begins. Britt, did you do a rewatch?
- [04:43]
Britt Lauer
I did do a rewatch. And to echo Tramiel, I feel like it was like watching a home video from high school or something, like it happened such a long time ago.
- [04:55]
David Fuerst
Well, the show is primarily directed by Ben Stiller, has an incredible cast, including both of you, along with Adam Scott, Zack Cherry, John Turturro, Patricia Arquette, Christopher Walken. Can you talk about working with this team?
- [05:13]
Britt Lauer
Yeah, it's an incredible group of people. Ben Stiller is such a collaborative artist and he brought so many artists who are just kind of at the top of their game and as obsessed with making the show as he is to each department. And yeah, showing up to set and getting to work with my heroes is a real. Is a real surreal experience. A real surreal experience.
- [05:44]
David Fuerst
Real surreal is, I think, appropriate.
- [05:47]
Britt Lauer
Maybe that's the title of the show.
- [05:50]
David Fuerst
Well, Tramell, I mean, I want to hear your take on that, too. It's been fascinating to watch the evolution of the indie versions of some of these characters and the developing workplace relationships that somehow still happen even within the sealed off corporate worship universe of Lumen, including what seems to be a genuine love that grows between John Churturro and Christopher Walken. I mean, it's just so Great to see both of them in these roles.
- [06:20]
Tramell Tillman
I mean, it's a delight to watch them play with each other. They, in real life have a pure, wonderful, respectful relationship with each other. You can tell that they've. They've worked with each other, they're friends. They. They love one another. And to see that manifest on screen is. Is wonderful. You know, they take care of one another. I witnessed that firsthand in season one when we were filming Bert's retirement party. And the care that John had with Christopher and the play that Christopher had with John, it was. It was a delight. And I just wanted so badly to be a part of it, you know, an outsider. And that feeling really fueled Milchick's performance and how he tends to these innies that he himself is a bit of a outsider from the camaraderie that they are finding naturally.
- [07:17]
David Fuerst
It's a fascinating show, and I have so many millions of questions. But, Britt, do you somewhat dread talking about the show because it's a delicate dance right in what you can and cannot say, because you really need to watch the show from the beginning and watch the whole story arc evolve. Can you maybe share some of the wildest theories that you've heard from fans of the show about what they think might be going on?
- [07:43]
Britt Lauer
Well, there are so many. I will say, I feel like the audience has become the other part of our show, the other. It feels like we're having a real conversation from season one to season two, and even now, you know, the world of the show. And then I think it expands in the minds of our viewers and the questions and their engagement with the show really has an impact.
- [08:12]
David Fuerst
That's interesting. I mean, I have so many questions. Let me throw one out here. Maybe you both have a take on this, but these characters have sort of kidnapped themselves, right? Or another version of themselves. Tramiel. Aside from whatever we think about the motives of the company they work for, how morally culpable are they day for locking up this other version of themselves, you know, in the workplace, they. They never get to see the sky. They only live to work doing who knows what morally culpable.
- [08:48]
Tramell Tillman
You know, what's interesting is the more and more I stepped through this, this show, there's a lot of conversation around morality. There's conversation of whether or not who's good, who's bad, you know, the villain, the heroes, and so forth. What I think is interesting is that it is a question mark across the board. The first question that is asked in the season, we start with, who are you? You Know, and I think so much of this piece is about identity. When it comes to morality as it pertains to Milchick, I think it's less about morality and more about service. Service of this company. He is in service of Kier, and he enters this space with a blind faith, you know, and what makes it interesting is that it feels very human. These are qualities that I have seen, we have witnessed, you know, through religious movements, political movements, that There is this 100% commitment to an entity, to an idea, to a belief, to a faith. And they follow it 100%. They follow it wholeheartedly. And that, to me, is what's so interesting about how these characters are so present and. And engaging with the audience.
- [10:23]
David Fuerst
And when you say in service to Kier, this is the founder of the company they work for?
- [10:30]
Tramell Tillman
Yes, yes. Founder of Lumen. Yes.
- [10:33]
David Fuerst
And just to follow up on this with you too, Britt, in the very opening scene of the whole series, right, we see Heli unconscious on a table, locked in what seems to be a conference room, about to begin her severed work life. It feels to the audience and to her in that moment that she's being held prisoner against her will. But we are told her Audi made this choice. This was her own choice to come here to work.
- [11:03]
Britt Lauer
Yeah. Heli wakes up to a very hungry journey to find out what the hell is going on on the second floor, and primarily to find out that question that Tramel said, which is, who are you? You know, it's a journey of identity. And I think as season two jumps off of that glimpse that we get at the end of season one of all the characters finding out a little bit more of who they are on the outside, it's just exploded their world of like, well, what is my relationship to this other part of me? What is my relationship to myself? And what is my relationship to my given and my chosen family? And that's. Yeah, I'm so excited for people to see.
- [11:54]
David Fuerst
Exploded is a good word to use. I mean, it's an extreme version of what we all somewhat go through a little bit. Right. But, you know, Adam Scott in the first season, playing two versions of his character throughout the first season in Mark and Outy Mark, your outie reveal only happens in the last episode this season, we get to see a little bit more of who that person is. What was it like breaking up this character that you developed into the two characters?
- [12:27]
Britt Lauer
Yeah, well, jumping off the idea that this is the same person who shares a body and a subconscious. This is a person who's Bringing the joy and trauma from either side of the innie or the outtie and in the becomes a question of what's bleeding through. So I kind of started from well, how are they similar? These are two sides of the same person who are both trapped within the same company. Helena, the Audi is trapped in a very different way because she was born into this family. And, and then I kind of differentiated it, it sound, they sound like different music in my head, almost like same musician but different albums or different sides of, of the album. You know, it's the same, it's the same person but you know, she has a different set of circumstances, much different set of circumstances on the inside than the outside.
- [13:25]
David Fuerst
It's fascinating to me how those different sets of circumstances feel totally different in the two different worlds. I love how the way a character perceives something in the outside world can feel very different for the versions of themselves that are cut off from the world. In this hermetically sealed environment of the severed basement floor of Lumen out there in the world. Mark views his brother in law, right, as something of a buffoon. He's this hugely self absorbed guy that Mark doesn't take seriously. But Tramiel, when Mark stumbles across his brother in law's self help book, the you you are at work, this hits him in a completely different way. This is contraband. I mean he might have mocked it in the real world, but here this is like the guidebook to the revolution.
- [14:15]
Tramell Tillman
Yeah, it is, it is. And you know, there's that scene where Milchick is sitting and he's reading the book and you see his response to it. It's ridiculous. But here it is, these innies and this is my take. And please correct me Brit, if I'm speaking out of turn, but they're hungry for information, they're hungry for knowledge. And here is this mysterious text that has nothing to do with Lumen, its color and its presentation. And now they're, they're this. The text is challenging everything that Lumen is standing for. So it is a threat.
- [14:55]
Britt Lauer
I mean, totally. And I think the inner child that you see kind of emerge from the, the enies when they wake up in their new consciousness is, is at odds with the inner crit that you see on the outside. You know, it's kind of that ego id, nature, nurture. So of course like a brand new consciousness is going to be kind of more open to a new idea than someone like Marx. Audi is a bit more jaded and maybe he's come across more self help books than is any well, 100% more.
- [15:31]
David Fuerst
100% more. Exactly right. We're speaking with Tramell Tillman and Brit Lauer. We're talking about season two of Severance which has final arrived. Season two Episode two streams today on Apple tv. We continue our conversation in just a moment here on wnyc. This is all of it.
- [15:50]
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- [16:10]
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- [16:33]
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- [17:10]
David Fuerst
This is all of it on WNYC. Season two of Severance is out now. Episode two streams today on Apple TV and we are here with two of the actors from the series, Tramell Tillman and Britt Lauer. It's great to have you with us. And Brit, I wanted to ask you, when you're an actor, when you go into work and adopt a different Persona, is there any analogy there for Severance, for innies and outies?
- [17:39]
Britt Lauer
Yeah, 100%. There's a meta quality of what we do as actors. Obviously we do put on a different costume and assume a different identity and there's a shared body. So what we go through at work sometimes carries over. I find that sometimes when I'm in my regular life, I start walking a bit more like Helly when we're in production. And yeah, in the same way that I play Heli, Heli plays me a.
- [18:14]
David Fuerst
Little bit too interesting. I have to ask about the Milchick character, Tramiel. He is not severed as far as we know, like his boss Kobel. He appears to be the same person inside and outside the company, but this is a guy who is all in right as we talked about earlier, he is a true believer in the corporate mission. As Milchick, you are eerily unflappable most of the time. Friendly but cold. Very corporate. There's something about your smile that is assuring but also terrifying. I feel like I should be apologizing to you right now so I can maybe avoid a trip to the break room. But how did you work on the look of Milchick, the way he carries himself and delivers? Friendly, but not friendly directions?
- [19:09]
Tramell Tillman
Sure. I. I go back to the initial breakdown that I received from Milchick, and it basically said, age 20 to 50. Enthusiastic corporate man, enthusiastic company man.
- [19:24]
David Fuerst
That's not a lot.
- [19:25]
Tramell Tillman
Yeah, that was it. So I had to do a lot of research to really figure out who this guy was. And I was digging into the script and just allowing my imagination to play. This is a man that has a lot of secrets. He has access to secrets. He doesn't know everything, but he knows enough, so there's a lot of power there. And from the scene that I auditioned with, which was the Red ball scene, I got the sense that he's a bit of a coach, he's a bit of a teacher. Right. So there's got to be a level of trust that he has to build. So from there, you kind of put together the pieces of the puzzle. You become a detective, if you will, to try to solve the mystery of who this guy is. And I don't have him completely figured out at all, because I'm learning so much as I step through, you know, filming season two. And. But what I did understand was that this is a guy that has a suit of armor that he wears. You know, he's very meticulous about his appearance, how he, you know, how he shows up to work, what he says. His diction is very assured. It's very measured. And so he carries himself in that way. You know, this is. He's a soldier. He's ready. He's, you know, armed for battle. And it was really a delight to be in a collaborative space with Dan and Ben to really craft how this. This guy moves and how he appears. I worked heavily with Jennifer Lord, who is my hairstylist, on the show, and Kathleen Brown is our makeup artist to craft how his mustache is and how his hair is teased in the right, proper shape. It was a collaborative effort, but really finding the heart of who he is, the pulse of this man has been quite a journey in of itself.
- [21:26]
David Fuerst
Do you find that some of those little, seemingly little details, like just how the hair is really informs your performance and who this character is.
- [21:35]
Tramell Tillman
100%. It's all storytelling. Every bit of it. You know, the suit, the suit color, the way his tie is tied, his shoes. Every bit of it is a piece of storytelling, and it really serves the idea of lumen and who. Who this guy is.
- [21:57]
David Fuerst
You mentioned in an interview with the Hollywood Reporter, when you're talking about rewatching season one, that you said at the time, when I was acting in season one, I was like, hey, this is all fun. But now I see that it's terrifying. I don't even recognize that guy as me.
- [22:13]
Tramell Tillman
That's true. That tracks.
- [22:16]
Britt Lauer
And it's great to work with Tramiel, too, because to watch his process is mesmerizing. And you watch him do this terrifying thing and then cut. And he's just the most warm and lovely and delightful person on the planet.
- [22:32]
David Fuerst
And also, Britt, you know, we're talking about rewatching the season now because, as we mentioned earlier, a lot of this was filmed a long time ago. And the new season started filming back in 2022, but had to break for the Screen Actors Guild and the Writers Guild of America strikes. Was it difficult, Britt, to leave and return to these characters in the middle of a season?
- [22:59]
Britt Lauer
You know, we all kind of got out on the picket lines together, so we stepped into that role for that time period. And there's something about, again, like, these costumes are so evocative. Like, you put them on, and I've got the heli heels, and, like, it just comes right back.
- [23:17]
David Fuerst
I read that in between seasons. Britt, you joined the circus. Do I have that right? Maybe two different circuses.
- [23:24]
Britt Lauer
I did, yeah. After season one and after season two, I joined two different circuses. And, yeah, the circus makes me incredibly happy.
- [23:35]
David Fuerst
And what does that mean? What were you doing with the circus?
- [23:40]
Britt Lauer
What was I doing in the most recent circus? I was sitting on top of the tent as the audience arrived, playing my ukulele. And when the show began, I was a ringmaster of sorts. And I just felt incredibly lucky to get to share a stage with my other heroes in the circus world, who are tightrope walking and swallowing swords and trapeze.
- [24:09]
David Fuerst
Absolutely fascinating. Are we to get you up on the tightrope at any point?
- [24:13]
Britt Lauer
Well, you know, I don't know if I do anything because impressive, but I'll talk to the audience. That's my brave act.
- [24:21]
David Fuerst
Tramel, how did you use the extra time between seasons? Any circus work?
- [24:26]
Tramell Tillman
No, I didn't do any circus work. I traveled a bit you know, I give myself the task to travel internationally at least once a year, so. And I like to travel solo. So it's really fun to be able to explore culture and go see art and museums and taste the food. I love cuisine. So I was in Spain during. During the breaks and I had a wonderful time.
- [24:56]
David Fuerst
I have so many questions. I try to get a few more in here because I'm just so curious. And I have to mention that the season was filmed all over New Jersey. The South Bronx, upstate New York. The exteriors of the Lumen building are at Bell Works in Holmdel, New Jersey. Do you spend a lot of times film a lot of time filming at these locations, Brit, or is most of it done in a film set where you have those long white hallways and those office spaces?
- [25:27]
Britt Lauer
Yeah, we do spend a lot of time at a Bronx studio where those labyrinth like hallways are actually built and do confuse us daily. But we.
- [25:38]
David Fuerst
I'm so glad because it's incredibly confusing to acquired.
- [25:42]
Britt Lauer
We're confused. Where are we? But we did get to spend some more time on location for this season and that was cool. To get to the breath. What is the line from to breathe fresh air or something from Rickon's book? I'm not sure.
- [26:00]
Tramell Tillman
Oh, yes, yes.
- [26:01]
Britt Lauer
To taste fresh air. Something.
- [26:04]
David Fuerst
Anyway, it's such a disconcerting feeling that you have being lost in those endless white hallways. And Tramel, the aesthetics of the show. I mean, it's set in some kind of alternate present or maybe near future with those endless and confusing hallways. But the technology in the office looks like it comes from the 80s or maybe the 60s or 70s. The graphics on their computers seem hilariously stuck in the 1980s, especially when you get some visual reward and when they get a music reward. In the office, Milcik plays records on an old turntable. And it all seems to add to this sense of dislocation and being lost in time.
- [26:50]
Tramell Tillman
I think it's such a delight to have that quality in the show where you don't know the era that we're in. It feels timeless in that way. And speaking of the hallways, you know, I have to give credit to Jeremy Hindle, our production designer, for crafting such a beautiful set. And on the severed floor, even everybody piece, it's stunning. And Cat Miller, who is our prop master and with the instruments that you see in season one, you know, the. The computers, all of that, it's geniuses that are really crafting and telling this story to create that image, that feel that you're speaking to, that Timeless feel.
- [27:34]
Britt Lauer
And we're so lucky. It feels like we've been dropped into an art installation.
- [27:38]
David Fuerst
That's a great way to put it. That is what it feels like. Speaking of being dropped into an art installation, we're New York Public Radio, so we have to ask about the Grand Central stunt that you did recently. You and your cast members were stuck in this glass cube in Vanderbilt hall in Grand Central, acting out office scenes. Tramiel, how was this stunt pitched to you?
- [28:05]
Tramell Tillman
Well, I got a letter. I don't even want to call it a letter. I think it was just a line, and it just said installation cube. So I thought that I was just going to show up and stand by a severance cube along with the rest of my cast, and we just take pictures in Grand Central and then leave.
- [28:25]
David Fuerst
Oh, no.
- [28:25]
Tramell Tillman
It wasn't until a couple days prior to they said, no, this is a full production. You will be in costume. We're going to have hair, makeup. They. They have taken the. The. The desks and put them in Grand Central. And we had so many questions as to how this works. It's like, is there a door to get into the cube? Is it glass? Is it cold in the cube?
- [28:49]
David Fuerst
Will we be protected in there?
- [28:51]
Tramell Tillman
Protected? Like, how are people going to get in? You know? So it exceeded my expectations. I don't think I had any expectations. It just exceeded my imagination as to how it. How it was going to go. And the turnout was just amazing.
- [29:07]
David Fuerst
Britt, what was it like to play this character live, in person, in front of a crowd?
- [29:13]
Britt Lauer
It was incredible. We typically get into character, into costume, and it takes two years before it's delivered to our audience. We were performing moment for moment in front of people, and it was so fun. It's so rare that you get to get into character with your cast for a press tour. And, yeah, I think we hadn't been on set for, like, a year. Right, Tramell? So it's just nice to be together. And we had all these storylines going in there that you'll never know about.
- [29:47]
David Fuerst
Well, you're stuck in there. You got to do something, right? I mean, Tramell, you have theater experience. You were in the Great Society on Broadway until about a month ago. You were off Broadway in a show that we can't say the name of. And you're set to appear in Wine in the Wilderness at Classic Stage Company this spring. Was a live theater background helpful with this stunt?
- [30:11]
Tramell Tillman
Oh, absolutely. There's nothing like the magic of live theater, and there's nothing like having an audience around you you know, it's different with television and film because your audience is a bit smaller. But here we are gathered together, you know, instructed not to break the fourth wall and have spectators, you know, around us in the round, but I guess spectators in the cube, if you will, to really feed and give us energy. I remember there was a moment where we. I stepped Mark, or excuse me, I stepped Adam outside of the cube to basically give him a break. And one of the onlookers said, oh, you're gonna take it to the break room.
- [30:54]
David Fuerst
That's the first thing I thought of when you said break.
- [30:57]
Tramell Tillman
You know, so they were, like, really enthusiastic. They loved it. They were all in. It was really wonderful to feel and, you know, experience that.
- [31:08]
David Fuerst
I have so many more questions, but I'm gonna have to stop myself. But the way you finished by talking about being all in, I think that's the way a lot of us feel when we're watching Severance. It's an incredible series and it's been great. Season two of Severance has arrived. Episode two of season two streams today on Apple tv. Tramell Tillman and Britt Lauer, thank you for joining us.
- [31:33]
Tramell Tillman
Thank you.
- [31:35]
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