← All Of It with Alison Stewart
All Of It with Alison Stewart
The Milk Carton Kids: 'I Only See the Moon' (Grammy Listening Party)
00:24:22
Folk duo The Milk Carton Kids are nominated for the Grammy for Best Folk Album for their latest LP, I Only See the Moon.
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- [00:00]
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- [00:27]
Casual Speaker
I'm going to put you on nephew.
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Alison Stewart
All right, unc, welcome to McDonald's. Can I take your order?
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Casual Speaker
Miss? Been hitting up McDonald's for years. Now it's back. We need snack wraps. What's a snack wrap? It's the return of something great. Snack wrap is back.
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Alison Stewart
This is all of it. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC Studios in soho. Thank you for sharing part of your day with us. Hey, the Screen Actors Guild award nominations were announced this week, and if you want to catch up on some of the films that made the list, check out some of our recent conversations. Earlier this week, I spoke with Jeffrey Wright, the lead of the film American Fiction, which is up for three awards. We recently spoke to Carrie Coon, who joined me. She's the star of the HBO series the Gilded Age, which is up for outstanding performance by an ensemble. Also nominated director Blitz Bazawulhe and Danielle Brooks from the Color Purple, the movie musical. They received a pair of nominations. You can find those conversations wherever you get your podcasts or head to our show page@wnyc.org all of it let's get this hour started with the Milk Carton Kids.
- [01:39]
Milk Carton Kids (Joey Ryan and Kenneth Pattengale singing)
The songs you love to sing they are still ringing in my ear the love you gave to me I am still holding on to all these I'll burn this little satchel before long the small will rise Carry our heart But I want to miss you when you're.
- [02:25]
Alison Stewart
Gone when you're gone that's when you're gone for the duo the Milk Carton kids off their 2023 album I Only See the Moon. It's nominated for the Grammy for Best Folk album. The duo second time in the category, which is a double accomplishment because they spent three weeks recording the whole thing, then tossed most of it and started again. The Grammys will be awarded on February 4th in LA, the same city where the band began more than a decade ago and where they recorded their nominated album I Only See the Moon. Before the award show, though, they'll be in our area, stopping at the Music hall of Williamsbur on January 27th. Joining us now for a Grammy listening party and a preview of the show is Joey Ryan. Hi, Joey.
- [03:07]
Milk Carton Kids (Joey Ryan and Kenneth Pattengale singing)
Hi.
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Alison Stewart
Hi. And Kenneth Pattengale. Hi, Kenneth.
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Kenneth Pattengale
Hey. How brave of you to play the banjo while people are trying to get their culture and get their news. Well, you know, you just broadcasted the banjo. That's.
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Alison Stewart
You know, we do it like that. It's public radio. You know where you are. Don't pretend like you don't know where you are. So, Kenneth, you served as producer on the album, and we checked our notes, the music nerds that we are. The last time a Milk Carton Kids album was self produced was about a decade ago. So what was the appeal of taking on the role?
- [03:44]
Kenneth Pattengale
Well, we needed a fresh kind of look at things, and honestly, it didn't change much. It was still just me doing all of the work. Now it's just me getting credit for that. No, in seriousness, it was just a little tweak on. We were trying to get back to what it felt like making music 10 years ago. And that was a point of departure when Joey and I had just met each other and things were fresh and things were alive and not overthought, and they were in motion and very present. And, you know, we've spent a decade traversing the depths of modern folk music, as it were, and that can become a sticky proposition at times. And so I thought I would take the reins and try to lead us back to this place where maybe we were able to rediscover what was that spark a decade ago. And so it was really just functionally just a little perspective shift that helped take us both out of our skin for a minute.
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Alison Stewart
Joey, what is Kenneth? What's a strong suit as a producer?
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Joey Ryan
Oh, strong suit as a producer. I would say letting the artist pursue his vision without getting in the way too much. You know what I mean? I really felt like I was able to finally express myself once Kenneth got out of the way as producer.
- [05:19]
Alison Stewart
How about as performer? How did Kenneth. Performer factor into that?
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Joey Ryan
No, I. I will say that I think, you know, Kenneth is a wonderful producer who's produced records for a bunch of other artists which. Who I love. And the. Sometimes the producer's job is to get out of the way. Kenneth is obviously also the artist on this. On this project. But there was the huge point of departure that you mentioned for us was when we finished. We thought we finished the album, and then. And it was up to. It came down to Kenneth as the producer to say, hey, I don't think. I don't think this is actually good. I don't think this is what we were aiming for. I think we should basically scrap all of this and start again. And I think if. If there was an outside producer or even if we were making that decision by committee, the both of us, I don't think maybe either of us would have had the owners over the process to. To be able to say that. And that is what made all the difference, because we went back and wrote a new batch of songs that we really are proud of and became this record, and we didn't have that when we first finished the recordings.
- [06:26]
Alison Stewart
Kenneth, how did you know you. You'd missed the mark, that you hadn't quite gotten the album that you'd hoped it sounded bad?
- [06:37]
Kenneth Pattengale
No, it's not that. You know, making art is a. Is a complicated thing, especially when you're doing it with your best friend and your partner of many years. You know, what's. What's the common goal? And like I said earlier, if we've had these sort of nebulous moving targets or shifting goals as we've aged over 10 years and worked together, it really was clarifying. Just trying to come back to the thing that, like, what lights us up, what feels like, you know, what we want to sing and what we want to talk about and turn off the rest of the world and look inward, like, what is that thing that made us move to begin with? And, you know, one of the biggest litmus tests, as it were, in our band anyway, is that you go through this whole process and then inevitably you have to go take it to the people. That's another important part of that communion and that exchange of energy. And you really know that you've done a thing when that song goes seamlessly into your set list and becomes part of your live extension and becomes a part of the thing that you want to do with an audience. And the last couple records that we made, they never really got reflected in our live show the way that our first couple records did. And it was very clear to me after that first go around that none of the songs that we recorded, we gave it our best there. You know, it's a pretty decent thing. But if. If you're lying in bed late at night listening to it, trying to be transported to a different world, didn't feel like that. It felt like maybe a songwriting exercise or felt like another sort of meandering trip a little bit away from home. And I wanted to get to the stuff that felt like it felt 10 years ago, where it was the Core of our identity. And it's what we wanted to spend our time basking in and spend our time trying to communicate. And sure enough, after this record, all these shows that we got and do, you know, most of the records represented in our live set, and it fits in seamlessly, and it feels like it's connected to our audience and tapped back into our audience, who's been sort of faithfully with us for the better part of 10 years, which is a hell of a long time, especially in contemporary music. That's like. That's not lost on us. How lucky are we?
- [09:07]
Alison Stewart
My guests are the Milk Carton Kids, Joey Ryan and Kenneth Pattengale. The name of the album is I Only See the Moon, nominated for best folk album for the Grammy this year. Let's listen to a song. We can talk about it on the other side. This is running on Sweet Smile, Sam.
- [09:50]
Milk Carton Kids (Joey Ryan and Kenneth Pattengale singing)
And I can't fight back I can't even see what's hanging on my back Is it a targeting. Is it a beast of rage? Either way, I'm never at my age I'm running free I'm running a wild child I'm running still running child Running down my burden running out Sweet smile I mostly feel like hell you say.
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Alison Stewart
I'm doing well that's ruming on Sweet Smile from Milk Carton. So, Joey, what was a choice or a decision y' all made in that track that you remember, that you remember, that you remember really having to think about having to mull over, having to work on?
- [10:59]
Joey Ryan
The main thing is that that track is kind of the first one that Kenneth showed up. That song is the first one that Kenneth showed up with after we decided to redo the whole thing. That was the first that, you know, that was the first one that kind of, I think, achieved what we were going for in terms of reflecting something very true, personally and emotionally. Something a bit autobiographical from Kenneth's perspective and also, to be honest, felt like the first one that we knew, like, that's going to be one that we play every night in our. In our shows. It was the first single that we put out, which, as you can hear from the song, reflects our lack of. Of business sense because it's. It's not exactly a mainstream club hit, but that's not, I guess, ever been what we've been going for. We just wanted something with a really sort of true emotional center that. That felt very much like us. And so. And that was the first one that showed up and kind of gave the. The second half of this process A clear direction, Kathy.
- [12:13]
Alison Stewart
And hearing you guys talk about the record, it seems like you just really like this record. Like, you maybe like it more than other records.
- [12:22]
Kenneth Pattengale
Yeah, definitely. Well, it's also the real exciting thing, artistically, is that we've always been a minimalist folk duo is kind of what it is. And I think the implications of that are there's a bit of a novelty of, you know, we get to stand up on stage and perform this magic trick that's just two guitars and two voices. There's only one microphone on stage. And the thing that comes out when we play is a little bit inconceivable from the audience because it feels like more than that. And we've always relied on that pretty heavily to frame the presentation of our band. And one of the things that happens 10, 12 years into that relationship is we get kind of bored of that magic trick. And we yearn for different tools and we yearn for different forms of expression. And, you know, the 2018 record that we put out, wherein there were 15 musicians on it and, you know, far more complex arrangements, our fans, I think what, you know, as history teases it out, will appreciate that phase, but it definitely was not utilizing those tools that feel really natural and feel basic to our project. And this record was, I think, the smartest time we ever approached a happy middle ground there, which was to retain that magic, but also have the freedom to push out a little bit, to paint the scene a little bit differently, to be a little more intentional so that we don't have to, you know. Our third record fully embraced that magic trick, where we recorded it live around the country at Soundchecks, and, you know, is essentially the best sounding version of our. Of our live show and our magic trick that could happen. But so this one also. All of those rules went out the window, and it's like it had to feel that way. But we could put it together in different ways, or we could experiment putting it together in different ways. And that was a really. That was a really nice process that felt like kind of baby steps forward into our evolution and tapped into different sides of his and my artistic expression that we hadn't before.
- [14:45]
Alison Stewart
There were two songs from that first round that made it one True Love and Wheels and Levers. We're gonna listen to a little bit of Wheels and Levers. Let's play it, and we can talk about it on the other side. This is Milk Carton Kids.
- [14:57]
Milk Carton Kids (Joey Ryan and Kenneth Pattengale singing)
Sam. Rising sun Found no one holding the reins the wheels and levers Face to the towering wind Hide My skin fighting the tears we held forever all disappears in gathering silence Time quickens patiently.
- [16:10]
Alison Stewart
I love how forward the vocals are on so many of the songs. Joey, what was different? Did anything change between the version that was on? We'll call it I Only see the moon 1 and I only see the moon 2.
- [16:26]
Joey Ryan
I think we rewrote the second verse and then there's a big, beautiful arrangement in the sort of guitar solo and outro, which that's. This is sort of. I think it's the fourth song on the album. And it leads right into the midpoint where there's like kind of a marked emotional and tonal shift through the outro of this song, which leads seamlessly into the next song. So I think, you know, one thing we've always strived for, and it's tough to do in like a minimalist instrumentation that we've usually confined ourselves to, is we wanted to, you know, create a narrative arc and a sort of emotional journey across the album, make it feel really like an album. And I think once we figured out the outro to this song and how it led into the intro for the title track, I Only See the Moon, it really felt like, okay, a demarcation point where the Act 1 of the album is over. And this is ushering you into sort of a darker kind of act two, more orchestral moment.
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Alison Stewart
Well, let's hear that segue into I Only See the Moon.
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Milk Carton Kids (Joey Ryan and Kenneth Pattengale singing)
Far away.
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Joey Ryan
From.
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Kenneth Pattengale
PR.
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Milk Carton Kids (Joey Ryan and Kenneth Pattengale singing)
I cry how I cry for you A broken croon in solitude.
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Kenneth Pattengale
I.
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Milk Carton Kids (Joey Ryan and Kenneth Pattengale singing)
Only see the moon Time stands still unto the wind Break over heaven.
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Alison Stewart
Kenneth, the strings.
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Kenneth Pattengale
Oh, yeah, the strings.
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Alison Stewart
Tell us about the strings.
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Kenneth Pattengale
Well, we had a budget to invite a bunch of our friends around all year to contribute to our album because we really yearned that connection. And then we finished the album, just kind of two of us. So I had this pile of money around and I thought, well, I'll just hire a giant orchestra.
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Joey Ryan
You didn't tell me there was a pile of money laying around.
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Kenneth Pattengale
Well, that was the purview of the producer.
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Joey Ryan
Well, you don't downplay it either. But this was. I. This is like a decade long dream of Kenneth. So he'd been working on this song and writing it, rewriting it, and literally for seven or eight years, maybe more. And I remember you talking since years ago about wanting to record it with an orchestra. And so this seemed like the. The realization. Yeah, we tried my perspective of like a long held dream for you on what this song would become.
- [19:32]
Kenneth Pattengale
Yeah, we recorded this song for three other of our Records and they never made it. And I remember that 2018 record, it was a real last minute. I pulled it off the album literally as sequence was happening, because it didn't feel right. I had. I wrote this song in 2014.
- [19:52]
Milk Carton Kids (Joey Ryan and Kenneth Pattengale singing)
And.
- [19:53]
Kenneth Pattengale
Then rewrote it in 2016. All of the words, it's been coming into focus for quite a while. And every time we tried it, we'd put down a version that was compelling and nice but didn't feel like the thing that I wanted to shake from my head. And so again, yeah, fast forward to when we're finishing this record. And, you know, I jest about the money, but also, it's totally true. Had we gotten to the end of the record and we used the budget on other things, I don't feel like I would have had the latitude to even endeavor that. But when we reached that point, I thought, well, maybe the universe is saying now's the time. And as it turns out, people from a former era of my life, dear friends from 15 years ago, so happened. You know, one of them happens to be the kind of foremost violin session player in the Southland. And my other friend Whitney contracts all the strings for every Hollywood production around. And it was sort of a funny phone call to friends I hadn't spoken to in a decade to say, hey, I want to do this thing and I want to do it like next Tuesday. Can we pull it off? And they said, yeah, cool. Let me see if I can slot it in. Around the, you know, the recording of whatever it was, I think it was, I don't know, is that they moved some big Hollywood movie session.
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Alison Stewart
Wow.
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Kenneth Pattengale
So that we could carve out two hours in the studio beforehand.
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Alison Stewart
That's a good friend.
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Joey Ryan
It doesn't matter if that's true.
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Kenneth Pattengale
Yeah. And Joey didn't show up.
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Joey Ryan
Yeah.
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Kenneth Pattengale
It was Avatar, the Way of Water. They bumped that back. Yeah.
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Alison Stewart
Hey, Cameron. Have a seat. Just have a seat.
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Joey Ryan
James Carton. Kids that need to come in, can we push this?
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Kenneth Pattengale
Yeah. It all worked out. Everybody got what they wanted.
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Joey Ryan
Yeah, that's a fantastic movie.
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Kenneth Pattengale
Joey didn't even show up that day. He. He, he stayed home. He's not on that song. It's just me playing with the orchestra in Glendale. And I gave him the option. He was invited, but I can't remember. Maybe somebody, somebody in your kid's preschool had a positive COVID test or something. So you're steering clear of people.
- [22:06]
Joey Ryan
No.
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Kenneth Pattengale
Or you just had laundry.
- [22:07]
Joey Ryan
I had to go to Costco that day.
- [22:11]
Alison Stewart
My guests are the milk carton kids. Joey Ryan and Kenneth Pattengale. So the track once you love features the banjo. Again, we talked about that. And it's got this, you know, the blues AAB pattern with the lyrics. I mean, I actually scrolled up to see if it was an old song, but it's one y' all wrote. So what do you keep in mind when you're writing a blues song? What's the challenge?
- [22:32]
Joey Ryan
That was the first song that I wrote on the banjo, I think ever the first song I ever wrote with the banjo as, you know, the, the, as the guide. And so I sort of fell in love with old time banjo and claw hammer style banjo playing like seven or eight years ago. And I've been working on it for this, for this moment, for the moment of one true love. And so all of the banjo songs I've learned are kind of old time banjo songs. And so I thought I want to write like a modern, somewhat autobiographical story. But it's, it's obviously going to follow that form, you know, so where you're sort of singing along the banjo plays the melody essentially and, and then there and then that's, you know, that same structure is just common amongst a lot of the first 20 songs I learned on the banjo. And so I just wanted to, I just wanted to write a modern autobiographical old time banjo song. And that was what came out.
- [23:37]
Alison Stewart
The name of the album is I only see the moon. It is nominated for best folk album. Milk carton kids will be at Music hall of Williamsburg on January 27th. My guests have been Kenneth Pattendale and Joey Ryan. So nice to see you guys.
- [23:51]
Kenneth Pattengale
Allison, great to see you. Thanks for talking.
- [23:53]
Joey Ryan
Thank you.
- [23:53]
Alison Stewart
Let's go out on one true love.
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Milk Carton Kids (Joey Ryan and Kenneth Pattengale singing)
Two, three. She awoke before the light. She woke before the light. Combed her hair back, tied it tight. She awoke before the light Kissed her sleep and kids goodbye. Kissed her sleep and kids goodbye. Let her shoes and a suit and tie. She kissed her sleep and kids goodbye. I won true love.
- [25:05]
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- [25:32]
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