'The Perfect Neighbor' Nominated for Best Documentary Feature

Summary

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Podcast Episode Summary:

All Of It with Alison Stewart
Episode: 'The Perfect Neighbor' Nominated for Best Documentary Feature
Date: March 6, 2026
Guest: Director Geeta Gandbhir

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Overview

This episode centers on the Oscar-nominated documentary The Perfect Neighbor. Director Geeta Gandbhir joins Alison Stewart to discuss the making of this powerful film, which chronicles the fatal 2023 shooting of Ajike Owens in Ocala, Florida. The story is told entirely through police body camera footage and related materials, examining the buildup of neighborhood tensions, the racial dynamics at play, and the aftermath for the tight-knit community. The conversation explores the unique process behind the film, its focus on bearing witness, and the hope for social change.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Connection to the Owens Family

[03:06]

• Geeta Gandbhir details her deep ties to Ajike Owens, explaining that Ajike was a close friend of her relatives, Takima Robinson (an executive producer) and Kimberly Robinson Jones.
• Kimberly previously lived in the same house as Ajike and recommended the community as a safe, friendly place for Owen’s young family:

  “She believed that community was perfect for Ajika and her young children. Again, an idyllic street with close knit neighbors and children playing freely and watched over by the whole community.” (Geeta Gandbhir, 03:24)

2. From Activism to Documentary Filmmaking

[03:56]

• Initially, the team did not intend to make a documentary; instead, they wanted to support the family and ensure the case received media attention:

  "As soon as Ajika was murdered, we sprang into action to support the family... We were not sure if Susan Lawrence would walk from what she had done." (Geeta Gandbhir, 03:59)

• The film's origins lay in constructing a narrative timeline from jumbled footage—body cams, cell phones, security videos—received through the family’s legal efforts:

  “It was both detective work and grief work for me. It was a way to process.” (Geeta Gandbhir, 05:20)

• The unique breadth of footage spanned two years—rare for a story about violence in America:

  "We often only see the direct aftermath... But you don't get to see the lead up. And for us, that's when we realized there might be a bigger story here and possibly a film." (Geeta Gandbhir, 05:42)

3. The Immersive Power of Body Cam Footage

[06:12]

• Gandbhir was moved by the candid window the footage offered into everyday life and community dynamics:

  “We got to see this beautiful community living together... a really tight social network.” (Geeta Gandbhir, 06:23)

• Crucially, the footage resists the adultification or criminalization of Black children, allowing them to simply be seen as children:

  “The children, again, you cannot adultify them in this footage. They are definitely children.” (Geeta Gandbhir, 07:19)

• The material also outlines how that safety and neighborly care was disrupted by one person with a gun.

4. Understanding Susan Lawrence’s Motives and Behavior

[07:57 & 09:08]

• Not much is factually known about Lawrence beyond her church attendance, previous residences, and persistent complaints.
• Gandbhir bluntly assesses Lawrence’s actions:

  "I think Susan tried to weaponize her race and privilege against the community... Her sort of rage at children who... are mostly under 12, seems incredibly misplaced and frankly, strange." (Geeta Gandbhir, 09:08 & 10:37)

5. Police Response and Community Dynamics

[09:38]

• The local police grew weary of Lawrence’s repeated, baseless complaints:

  "There is no criminal justification for her calls. And I think one of them says... 'there's a certain point where you have to just, you know, come to terms with the fact that you live around a bunch of kids.'" (Geeta Gandbhir, 09:43)

6. Explicit Racial Hostility

[10:45]

• The documentary captures Lawrence admitting on tape to calling her Black neighbors the N-word, and neighborhood children and others discuss repeated hateful speech:

  "By the time she admitted to it... frankly, she had already shot Ajika through a locked door. So nothing surprised me." (Geeta Gandbhir, 11:05)

• The children, despite the abuse, remain respectful and polite even describing the slurs.

7. Bearing Witness and the Decision to Show Grief

[12:12]

• Gandbhir discusses her decision to include footage of the children learning about their mother’s death:

  “I first asked [Pamela Dias, Ajike's mother] if she wanted me to do this or if it was too painful... She said, no, I want you to do it.” (Geeta Gandbhir, 12:33)

• Pamela, inspired by Mamie Till’s example, insisted on sharing even the most wrenching moments as an act of truth-telling and a call for societal change:

  “Her hope is that Ajika's death can mean something, that it won't be in vain, and that by asking the audiences to bear witness with us and share the grief, that they will also be called to take action.” (Geeta Gandbhir, 13:52)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It was both detective work and grief work for me. It was a way to process.”
  (Geeta Gandbhir, 05:20)

• “We got to see this beautiful community living together, taking care of each other, a really tight social network.”
  (Geeta Gandbhir, 06:23)

• “The children… you cannot adultify them in this footage. They are definitely children. And how that was all disrupted ultimately by one person and their access to a gun.”
  (Geeta Gandbhir, 07:19)

• “Susan tried to weaponize her race and privilege against the community... her sort of rage at children... seems incredibly misplaced and frankly, strange.”
  (Geeta Gandbhir, 09:08 & 10:37)

• “Her hope is that Ajika's death can mean something, that it won't be in vain… by asking the audiences to bear witness with us and share the grief, that they will also be called to take action.”
  (Geeta Gandbhir, 13:52)

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Segment Timestamps

• 01:30 – Introduction and summary of the film’s story
• 03:06 – Gandbhir’s personal connection to Ajike Owens and the beginnings of the project
• 03:56 – Initial media activism and turning raw materials into a film
• 06:12 – Insights gained from reviewing immersive body cam footage
• 07:57 – What is known about Susan Lawrence prior to the incident
• 09:08 – 10:45 – Lawrence’s fixation, use of race, and the community’s and police’s response
• 10:45 – Discussion of explicit racist language and its impact on neighborhood children
• 12:12 – Decision-making about including painful moments on film, and the goal of bearing witness

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Conclusion

This episode provides a profound look into the making and meaning of The Perfect Neighbor. Gandbhir’s insights reveal how documentary can turn personal tragedy and raw, often overlooked evidence into a lens for understanding systemic issues around race, privilege, and violence. The conversation foregrounds the power of bearing witness—and the hope that bringing painful truths to light can help drive broader social change. The episode is essential listening for anyone interested in documentary film, community dynamics, or the ongoing fight against racial injustice in America.

Transcript

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[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Thank you for joining us for part of your day. We'll continue now with another conversation about an Oscar nominated film. In the documentary film the Perfect Neighbor, the story of a fatal shooting is told entirely through police body camera footage. Ajika Owens was a mother living with her kids in a tight knit community in Ocala, Florida. Also living nearby was a woman named Susan Lawrence. Lawrence really did not like the sounds of kids playing in an empty lot near her home or really anything else the kids did. Lawrence made multiple complaints to the police and the police told her there was nothing they could do if the kids weren't trespassing. Lawrence kept calling and calling the police and sometimes lying. The kids were mostly black and Lawrence was a white woman. It all changed one night in 2023. Owens went to Lawrence's house. After an altercation with the kids, Lawrence shot her through a locked door. Owens died. Lawrence claims she felt her life was

[Interviewer]

in danger using the stand your ground defense. The story of how a neighborhood's tensions boiled over to violence is told by director Geeta Gandbier. She won a directing award for the film at Sundance and now it's nominated for the best documentary feature at this year's Academy Awards. When she joined us to talk about the film, I started by asking Gita about the personal connection she had with the family at the center of the film, the Owens family.

[Geeta Gandbier]

Ajika Owens was a dear friend of two relatives of mine, Takima Robinson, who is an executive producer on the film, and Kimberly Robinson Jones. Kimberly lived in the community where Adjika lived and she was actually the person who directed Ajika to that street. Kimberly used to live in the house that Adjuka was living in when the confrontations with Susan started. And she believed that community was perfect for Ajica and her young children. Again, an idyllic street with close knit neighbors and children again playing freely and watched over by the whole community.

[Interviewer]

When you put on your documentary filmmaker hat, how did you think about navigating your own position with the point of view while making a documentary?

[Geeta Gandbier]

So what's really interesting is that we initially didn't start out thinking that we were going to make a documentary. As soon as Ajika was murdered, we sprang into action to support the family and to really activate around the media because we were not sure if Susan Lawrence would walk from what she had done. She was not arrested for four days and we wanted to help get the news out into the media, being that we ourselves work in the media and to try to keep the case alive even after Susan's arrest. But basically, two months after we, after the incident, we got our hands on the police body camera footage along with a lot of other files. There was cell phone footage, there was ring camera footage, dash cam footage, detective interview that happened after the incident, as well as 911 calls. And all of that came to us through the family lawyers. Basically they had used the Freedom of Information act and gotten the police department, the Marin County Sheriff's Department, I should say, to release any of the files that pertain to the case. So that material was sent to us and we were asked to look through it to see if there was anything that would be useful for the news. But when we it came to us in a jumble. And I used to be an editor, so I spent a couple weeks stringing it out into a timeline. It was really challenging to do because there was no true organization to it and sort of figuring out the chronology. But it was both detective work and grief work for me. It was a way to process. And once I had it out strung out in a timeline, we realized that the material went back two years and this Is something we never see when there is a crime. We often only see the direct aftermath. We particularly with gun violence you might see, which happens unfortunately every week. We see the grieving family, we see the funeral, but you don't get to see the lead up. And for us, that's when we realized there might be a bigger story here and possibly a film.

[Alison Stewart]

When you looked at all of this footage, what was something that surprised you when you saw it?

[Geeta Gandbier]

I think what was incredible to me about the footage was how immersive it was. Again, this is footage that was never meant to be used for the purpose we are using it for. But what was so astonishing was how we got to see the community as they were before. Again, the police came into the community multiple times and some of the calls that they were on lasted for an hour, some two hours, some longer. And we got to see this beautiful community living together, taking care of each other, a really tight social network. And again, it's a diverse community that we got to see the children playing freely in the streets, street just being themselves. We were. Because we were not on the ground, right? With a camera being intrusive, directing anything. Again, they are of course talking to. They're interacting with the police. But they feel in a way, because the camera is so innocuous, the body camera for the police, they often are being themselves fully. And we really wanted to paint a picture with this footage of this community. Again, oftentimes when crimes happen to us as people of color, we are criminalized or somehow there is a question of how. How was this our fault, Right? And so with this footage, we wanted to be able to paint a picture of this community as they were. And the children, again, you cannot adultify them in this footage. They are definitely children. And how that was all disrupted ultimately by one person and their access to a gun.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest is director Geeta Gandabeer. We're discussing her new documentary, the Perfect

[Interviewer]

Neighbor, about a neighborhood dispute turned fatal.

[Alison Stewart]

What do we know about Susan Lawrence

[Geeta Gandbier]

and her life before the shooting? So honestly, not much. Susan told many stories about her life, but as far as being able to fact check them, there were certain things we could. She was a member of church of her church. There were again, perhaps the places she lived. But the rest of it was not something that honestly we. That. That the. The material got into that we were given that much. Nor was it something, to be honest, that we thought was that relevant to the. To the. The situation. Because ultimately it was about her behavior in the current situation and what it led up to.

[Interviewer]

It was very interesting just to. Like you said, you get to watch her before this all happens.

[Alison Stewart]

And she's.

[Interviewer]

She's sort of just obsessed with. About the kids in the neighborhood and playing on the lot and what they do with their dogs and just everything to do with the kids. She goes down to the police station to report something she has no evidence for. What do you make of her determination to keep filing these reports?

[Geeta Gandbier]

I think Susan tried to weaponize her race and privilege against the community. I think she was absolutely irritated by the noise that the children make. And I'm not going to say that children are not noisy. I used to to live next to a high school and I will say, and I love loved them, but they were noisy. But I think that's just a factor that you have to take into consideration when you move into the neighborhood. It's. What's interesting is there's the police eventually tire of her.

[Interviewer]

It is interesting. They truly get tired of getting calls from her.

[Geeta Gandbier]

They do, because there is no criminal justification for her calls. And I think one of them says to the other in one of the conversations, there's a certain point where you have to just, you know, come to terms with the fact that you live around a bunch of kids, you know, And I want to point out that the yard they were playing in, which was next door to Susan's house, belonged to Susan's neighbor, and they had permission to be there. So there was actually a father who lived in that house whose child is one of the children who ran around the neighborhood playing, you know, playing football, playing games with the other kids, and he would coach football games with them on his own lawn. So really, Susan taking up issue with the children seems very misguided, if anything. Maybe you talk to the adult next door, right, who's hosting these kids. But her sort of rage at children who, as you can see in the footage, are mostly under 12, seems incredibly misplaced and frankly, strange.

[Interviewer]

It's interesting. It's a diverse community. Many of the kids street are black. There's white families as well. Susan is white. And it's interesting. Well, it's expected, frankly. Susan admits calling her neighborhoods the N word. Were you surprised to just see her like, say, yeah, I said it on tape.

[Geeta Gandbier]

By the time she admitted to it, and she was. It was during her interrogation that that comes up with the two detectives who had again, she had been at least brought in. And then she was being questioned, I believe, for a second time at that point, frankly, she had already shot Ajika through a Locked door. So nothing surprised me. And we also hear, heard from the neighbors about the ways that she would abuse the children. Hate speech against them. The children said it themselves. But the children are so polite. They don't say the words they say. She calls us the R word, the P word. To this day, I don't know what the P word is. Is. But they, you know, the children, the children spell out the curses. She called me a J, a Jack, a S.S. you know, they are incredibly polite to anyone who questions them. And again, and respectful in that way. So I would say that, no, at that point, I feel like we'd already seen who Susan was. So it didn't surprise me that much.

[Interviewer]

Final question. In one of the most devastating moments of the film, we see the children being told that their mother is not going to come home from the hospital. Why did you decide to show it? Yeah, why did you decide to show that?

[Geeta Gandbier]

Sure. So when we went to Pamela Dias, who's Ajika's mother, at the beginning of this, when I realized there was a film, I first asked her, did she want me to make a film? I have no other skills between us, I had nothing else to offer. So that is, you know, that's what I knew how to do. And I believed we could do with the material we had. I asked her if she wanted me to do this or if it was too painful and if she wanted to move on. And she said, no, I want you to do it. And she takes a lot of strength from Mamie Till, Emmett Till's mother, who had an open casket funeral for her son, who was lynch, because she wanted the world to know what happened to her baby. And she invited reporters in and had them take pictures which were shared again around the world. She believed that bearing witness was critical to making change. And Pamela is of the same mindset. And we talked about the fact that there are really painful things in the footage. There were this terrible, heartbreaking imagery. And she said, no, keep it in. The world needs to know that's the only way that we can maybe motivate change. And I would say we also talk about the video of George Floyd that circulated around the world and created a groundswell and a movement. Her hope is that Ajika's death can mean something, that it won't be in vain, and that by asking the audiences to bear witness with us and share the grief, that they will also be called to take action.

[Alison Stewart]

That was my conversation with director Geeta Ganbier. Her film the Perfect Neighbor has been nominated for best documentary feature at this year's Academy Awards. Coming up, Ethan Hawke will talk about his role as Lauren's Hart in the film Blue Moon, which turns a magnifying glass onto the songwriter's professional and artistic breakup with Richard Rodgers. The role landed Hawke a best actor nomination at this year's Oscars. Stay tuned to hear him talk about it. This is all of it.

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