The Return of Heavyweight

Summary

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All Of It with Alison Stewart: The Return of Heavyweight

Podcast: All Of It (WNYC)
Episode Air Date: October 20, 2025
Featured Guest: Jonathan Goldstein, Host and Creator of Heavyweight

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Overview

This episode of All Of It focuses on the highly anticipated return of the podcast Heavyweight, hosted by Jonathan Goldstein. After being canceled by Spotify in 2023, Heavyweight found a new home at Pushkin Industries and is now in its ninth season. The conversation delves into the show's evolution, its enduring appeal, and the challenges and triumphs of telling deeply personal stories. Goldstein and host Alison Stewart also discuss what makes a compelling story, the show’s subtle humor, the emotional stakes involved, and how the show adapted during the pandemic.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Heavyweight’s Return and Goldstein’s Perspective

Timestamps: 00:08–05:38

• Alison introduces the legacy and unique format of Heavyweight, known for revisiting pivotal moments and unpacking past regrets, forgiveness, and closure.
• Jonathan Goldstein reflects on the uncertainty after Heavyweight's cancellation and the importance of being able to continue the show at Pushkin Industries.
  • He considers Heavyweight more “documentary than podcast” due to its immersive, long-form narrative approach (03:43).
  • On the show’s future:

    “I felt like I would probably keep doing it on my own...maybe just putting out an episode a year or something...I didn’t know if we would find a new home.” (04:37, Jonathan Goldstein)

2. Evolution of the Show and What Makes a Heavyweight Story

Timestamps: 05:38–08:12

• Goldstein emphasizes the necessity of emotional stakes and relatability for a story to make it onto Heavyweight.
  • Memorable quote:

    “It has to have emotional stakes...for people to hear it and be able to relate to it and feel...it open up something in them is usually a good sign.” (06:15, Jonathan Goldstein)

• Noted that some episodes take years to produce and often require finding the right guest willing to “go there” emotionally.

3. Notable Season 9 Episodes

Timestamps: 06:50–08:12

• Discussion of a Season 9 story where a man, once a 14-year-old bank robber, seeks atonement decades later.
  • Goldstein notes the past’s persistence:

    “The thing that we learn over and over in every episode is just how close to the surface the past is...people are just living with things in the here and now...” (07:02 & 07:57, Jonathan Goldstein)

4. Balancing Humor and Depth

Timestamps: 08:12–09:37

• Listener comment observes Goldstein’s ability to be caring and funny even with rough material; Goldstein describes the challenge of striking that balance without seeming flippant.
  • He approaches stories “like telling a story to a friend...poking fun at yourself and the situation...constant, trying to find the right balance.” (08:28, Jonathan Goldstein)

5. Crafting Intimate Conversations

Timestamps: 10:20–11:53

• Goldstein shares how he approaches vulnerable guests, making space for emotion but encouraging breaks and privacy. Editing offers guests the security that “they don’t have to get it all out perfectly all at once.” (10:34, Jonathan Goldstein)

6. Listener Reflections

Timestamps: 11:53–13:52

• Listener shares that The Marshes episode helped give them hope and perspective during a search for biological family: > “It gave me hope that I might have positive experiences like the Marshes. In the end, I did. Thank you, Jonathan.” (11:53, listener text)
• Goldstein briefly summarizes The Marshes episode—a family discovering and reuniting with an unknown sibling.

7. The Jackie Cold Open

Timestamps: 13:04–13:52

• Goldstein clarifies his relationship to Jackie, the recurring character in the show’s cold opens:

  “Some people think it’s my sister or my wife. I mean, we’re just old friends...She seems to both enjoy my phone call at the beginning of the show and find it annoying. It’s kind of a paradox.” (13:12, Jonathan Goldstein)

8. Sober Living and Personal Essays

Timestamps: 13:52–15:41

• The host raises Goldstein’s “preseason” episode about his choice to stop drinking. He describes how he unpacked his relationship with alcohol—past family dynamics, social habits, and the ups and downs of abstaining after 20 years.

  “I always just say it’s been two years without drinking and it’s been...OK.” (15:23, Jonathan Goldstein)

9. Listener Call-In: Unresolved Moments

Timestamps: 15:46–19:02

• Caller Alina shares her affection for episodes about friendship and closure, notably the episode with Gregor tracking down CDs lent to Moby.
  • Goldstein expands:

    “It’s sort of like the thing that a person is looking for in some ways is a MacGuffin...what he really...was looking for was to reignite his friendship with Moby.” (17:29, Jonathan Goldstein)

10. Storytelling After the Pandemic

Timestamps: 19:02–20:44

• Goldstein discusses the shift to remote interviews during COVID-19. Surprisingly, virtual recording let guests decompress in the safety of their own homes after emotional conversations.
  • Reflects on possible trends in listener emails and story pitches post-pandemic.

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Notable Quotes

• On Heavyweight's unique identity:

  “This comes more out of the tradition of, yeah, I guess, like, like long form audio documentary, which doesn’t sound all that exciting. But you know, it’s like the kind of like radio that I was educated in as a producer at this American Life...” (03:43, Jonathan Goldstein)

• On processing the past:

  “The past is just a word. Like people are just living with things in the here and now that are just as close as anything that’s happening on a daily basis.” (07:57, Jonathan Goldstein)

• On exchanging humor and seriousness:

  “You just don’t want to take things too seriously, but at the same time you don’t want to feel dismissive or glib...Oftentimes, I guess you just want to strike the right tone.” (08:28, Jonathan Goldstein)

• On listener impact:

  “It gave me hope that I might have positive experiences like the Marshes. In the end, I did. Thank you, Jonathan.” (11:53, Listener)

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Important Segments with Timestamps

• Introduction and Heavyweight’s premise (00:08–03:43)
• Documentary vs. podcast distinctions (03:43–04:31)
• The aftermath of cancellation and revival (04:31–06:07)
• Selecting and developing Heavyweight stories (06:07–07:02)
• Season 9 stories & the persistence of the past (07:02–08:12)
• Balancing humor and care (08:12–09:37)
• Preparing guests for vulnerability (10:20–11:53)
• Listener testimonials - “The Marshes” (11:53–13:04)
• Behind the scenes with Jackie in the cold open (13:04–13:52)
• Goldstein’s experience with sobriety (13:52–15:41)
• Listener call about closure and Gregor’s episode (15:46–19:02)
• Storytelling evolution post-pandemic (19:02–20:44)
• Farewell (20:46–20:58)

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Conclusion

This episode offers a candid and heartfelt exploration of Heavyweight's rebirth, the purpose and craft behind its distinctive brand of storytelling, and the meaning it carries for both creator and listeners. Goldstein’s humility and thoughtfulness shine as he discusses the power of small unresolved moments, the mechanics of emotional storytelling, and the ongoing conversation between podcast, subject, and audience.

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Transcript

[A]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Our October get lit with all of it book club event is just over one week away. We are reading the latest novel by SA Cosby. The New York Times called him, quote, a maestro of crime fiction. And after devouring the King of Ashes, I have to agree. The story follows a man named Roman. He he's left his small hometown of Jefferson Run, Virginia to become a successful financial advisor to celebrities in Atlanta. But Roman finds himself back at home after he learns that a tragic accident involving his father might not have been an accident at all. In fact, it might have been an act of retribution from a local gang and Roman siblings have found themselves in the crosshairs. Ken Roveman save his family from the gang and actually, what will be the cost? SA Cosby will be joining us for an in person and virtual event on Tuesday, October 28th along with very special musical guest Yaya Bae who will play a special acoustic set for us. It's going to be live at the nypl, the Stavros Niarchos Foundation Library. By the way, it is almost sold out, so to find out how to get your free tickets and to borrow your E copy of King of Ashes thanks to our partners at NYPL, you can head to wnyc.org getlit that is wnyc.org get lit get lit again. That's Tuesday, October 28th at 6pm at the Stavros Niarchos Foundation Library. We can't wait to see you there. Now let's get this hour started with Heavyweight. When heavyweight launched in 2016, it quickly became one of the standout narrative podcasts of the early podcast boom. Known for its mix of humor, heart and honesty, host and creator Jonathan Goldstein helped people revisit pivotal moments from their past, seeking answers, forgiveness and long delayed closure. Then in 2023, Spotify canceled it, leaving fans to wonder if their beloved series had reached its end. But this year, Heavyweight found a new home at Pushkin Industries and is now back for its ninth season, reigniting the same flame for narrative storytelling. The new season includes stories of a man trying to persuade his parents to downs a young actor discovering his big break was built on a lie and a woman searching for a toddler she babysat in 1959. The first five episodes of Heavyweight, season nine are available now, with new podcasts available on Thursdays. Wherever you get your podcast. Host and creator Jonathan Goldstein joins us now to talk about Heavyweight's return, how the show has evolved and what it's meant to tell someone else's story. Hi, Jonathan.

[B]

Hi.

[A]

So glad to have you.

[B]

Thank you. Thank you. Good to be here, listeners.

[A]

We'd love to hear from you. Are you a fan of the podcast Heavyweight? Which episode stayed with you and why? What did you take away from the conversations that Jonathan has with his guests about regret or forgiveness or closure? Our phone number is 2124-3396-9221-2433 wnyc. Or if you have a question for Jonathan, you can shout that out as well. Our number, 212-433-33-4392. You can call us on that number or you can reach out via text. So you described Heavyweight as more documentary than podcast. What does that distinction mean to you?

[B]

Well, I guess nowadays it means that, you know, everything falls under the heading of podcasts and that encompasses, you know, four hour chit chat shows. I mean, not, not, not to, not to put them down. I like a lot of those shows, interview shows, and this comes more out of the tradition of, yeah, I guess, like, like long form audio documentary, which doesn't sound all that exciting. But you know, it's like the kind of like radio that I was educated in as a producer at this American Life, like that kind of thing, you know, where sometimes some of these episodes end up taking years to make. So I don't know, I wish there was like a different kind of word for it, you know, to, to I guess distinguish them.

[A]

When Spotify canceled your show, did you think it was the end of Heavyweight?

[B]

I certainly thought it was possible. I mean, I, I don't know. I mean, I felt like I would probably keep doing it on my own, but it, I don't, I don't because I love doing it. And I, in some ways I feel like, I've said, I feel like even when the show started off, it wasn't, you know, like the very first episode was me trying to solve the relationship between my father, Buzz, who at the time was 80 with his 85 year old brother Sheldon. And it didn't feel like, I don't know, like they were both, these men were octogenarians. It felt like, what is it? It's going to be like attracting this much coveted over 70 demographic. I don't know, it didn't seem like it was gonna be a big hit. And so since that time, I feel a little bit like I've been doing some kind of like outsider art project in many ways. And I think I would have Continued to do it, but I don't know, like maybe just putting out an episode a year or something, you know, so I didn't, I didn't know. I didn't know if we would find a new home.

[C]

Well, what did its revival mean to you personally?

[B]

It meant that I keep to, you know, getting to do what I love to do with the people that I love making the show. And. Yeah, I mean, like there, there are some episodes that are coming out in this ninth season that have. That we've been kicking around in some cases for like three, four, possibly even like five years.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

So it means being able to resolve some of those.

[C]

You know, how do you decide what makes a good story for heavyweight?

[B]

I think it has to have emotional stakes. I think it has to be relatable enough that people listening to it will feel like, oh, I've been there. There are sometimes stories that have stuck with people. Some act of bullying that took place when they were 11 years old, that is still very present. And I think for people to hear it and to be able to relate to it and feel for it to open up something in them is usually a good sign.

[C]

Well, that's what happened in the second episode of season nine, Right?

[B]

The second episode of season nine.

[C]

Second or third or the boy who's the bank robber.

[B]

Yeah. In that case, it's about this boy who just shortly after his 14th birthday walked into a bank with a sawed off shotgun and. And stole $40,000. And now he's a man in his mid-40s and he still, like, people very close to him don't even know that this happened. And he was looking for some kind of resolution. He wanted to make amends for it. He wanted to revisit that day and look for forgiveness from the people whose lives he had interrupted in this violent way. So, yeah, I guess the best episodes require someone who is really willing to go there. And the thing that we learn over and over in every episode is just how close to the surface the past is. It's almost like the past is just a word. Like people are just living with things in the here and now that are just as, you know, just as close as. As anything that's happening on a daily basis. Like, this guy never put it to rest. He thinks about it every day.

[C]

You know, we got a text that says so many people of the episodes are. So many of the episodes are really deep and personal and deal with some rough material. And John is both so caring and yet so funny. How does he find the balance?

[B]

It's I don't know, it's constantly a struggle, you know, sometimes you just don't want to take things too seriously, but at the same time you don't want to feel dismissive or glib. Like there was one episode about this 20 something year old guy who was kicked out of his apartment that he shared in an artist's loft in, in downtown la. And he, you know, you kind of like, you know, coming at it from the position of being a 50 something year old, I felt a little bit like he's gonna be okay. And I wanted to. Oftentimes like you, I guess you just want to strike the right tone. You don't want to be overly maudlin or like just too self serious, you know, I don't know. I guess it's like when you're telling a story to a friend, you know what I mean? And you're um, you're kind of poking fun at yourself and the situation. It's, it's, I guess it's a constant, you know, trying to find the right balance.

[A]

We're talking about the widely acclaimed narrative podcast Heavyweight. It returns for a new season. It has a new home. Host and creator Jonathan Goldstein joins us now to discuss the podcast listeners. We'd like to hear from you. Are you a fan of Heavyweight? What episode stayed with you and why? Our number is 212-433-WNYC 212-433-9692. You can call in, you can join us on air or you can text that number or maybe you have a question for Jonathan about how he tells or finds stories. Our numbers 212433 WNYC 212-433-9692. What is one of the first things.

[C]

You tell someone as you're about to.

[A]

Approach, approach interviewing them about something that's, that's really personal?

[B]

Well, I, I, I think like sometimes, I mean we do end up interviewing a lot of people and a lot of times the stories don't end up, you know, becoming full stories. They just end after the interview. And sometimes things we want people to feel vulnerable and raw enough that like when you're hearing the story, they are back there. They are, you know, they are in that space of the bullied 10 year old. But at the same time sometimes we, we, we feel, we recommend like maybe you want to take this offline. Maybe they want to consult with a thera therapist first. We always tell them that they could back up and you know, take a break and maybe try to, you know, just feel like you know, as you probably tell by the way that I'm talking, I make great use of editing equipment and we offer the same service to them. You know, we let them, you know, stop and go back to what they originally telling and, you know, I don't know that, that, that kind of thing, you know, they don't have to get it all out perfectly all at once.

[C]

We got a text that said, my episode is the Marshes. I'm adopted. And heard it when I applied for my original birth certificate and was about to embark on looking for my biological family. It gave me hope that I might have a positive experiences like the Marshes. In the end, I did. Thank you, Jonathan.

[B]

Wow, that is wonderful to hear. I'll just give you a little thumbnail portrait of what that episode was about. It was this family that realized that they had a full sibling, an eldest sibling that their parents, their mother and their father had had before they were all born, that they were only finding out about as adults. And it only came out at a family get together where an aunt who was drunk started speaking out of turn and they ended up, after many, many years of deliberation and putting it off, they ended up seeking out this daughter. And it was a good reunion.

[C]

Another text says, question, what is the real story about his relationship with Jackie and the cold open? So happy to show up.

[B]

So each episode ends up, yeah, is me calling up my friend Jackie and her hanging up on me at a certain point. I don't know. There's not a tremendous backstory. I mean, we've been. Some people think it's my sister or my wife. I mean, we're just old friends. We've been friends since children. And I think I legitimately annoy her, but I also think I amuse her. I don't know. She seems to both enjoy my phone call at the beginning of the show and find it annoying. It's kind of a paradox, I guess. I don't know, maybe that says something about a lot of people's friendships where we kind of annoy each other, but we also sort of enjoy the annoyance. I don't know.

[C]

We're talking about the return of the narrative. Podcast heavyweight host and creator Jonathan Goldstein is here now to discuss season nine. We also. I did want to point this out only because I sort of stumbled in this. In researching. You were on a podcast about. About being sober.

[B]

Yeah. And you, You.

[C]

You chose to go to not drink.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was sort of like a preseason episode. It kind of broke format. We were doing these kind of shorter My producers and I were doing these sort of shorter personal essay type episodes, which originally started out as just an attempt to kind of during. During the show's cancellation when we were looking for a new home, we were making these little essays for each other to kind of entertain each other. And yeah, I kind of explored my relationship to alcohol and I ended up talking to my dad, who is now 90 and, you know, loves drinking and drinks every day and it's, you know, it was a part of our bonding for sure, drinking together and I talked to other people that I enjoy drinking with and. Yeah, just trying to tally the pluses and the minuses, the things that I've lost out on. After being a daily drinker for the past 20 odd years.

[A]

How is it working out for you?

[B]

I think it's doing okay. I'm coming up, thank you for asking. I'm coming up on two years. Two years without drinking. Yeah. I hesitate to use the word sober. I hesitate to say I don't drink, but I always just say it's been two years without drinking and it's been. Okay.

[A]

Okay. It's more words, but it's okay. We're gonna use more words.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Let's talk to Alina, who's calling in from Amaranik. Hi, Alina, thank you for making the time to call. All of it. You're on the air. Jonathan.

[D]

Hi. Yeah, I, I was rushing out, but when I heard this, I had to call because I really liked the podcast. I lost it when it went off the air and didn't know what had happened and was glad to find it again. I just, I mean, you asked for one. There's a lot of episodes I like. I particularly like the one he did with Jonathan. Sorry, you did with your friend Gregor and finding, I think, a musician. I can't remember all the details, but what that showed me in a lot of what the episodes show is, most people have something that's just unresolved in their lives. And for some it can really, you know, hang over them and change the way they think about themselves, their careers, the way they deal with people. And that seemed to be what Gregor. And it's not like necessarily people change their whole lives, but it gives them insight they didn't have otherwise into why they went in a certain direction or just what happened. I think you had one about why someone wasn't invited to the prom or something like that, or didn't invite someone, I can't recall. And I just. Or Valentine's Day or something along those lines. I mean, it can be minor things or it can be major things, but the minor things can be major. We all make them much bigger in our minds, certain specific things. Anyhow, I think you do a really good job and I like how self deprecating you are and I think it's funny. And, and I know your friend Gregor at the end of that one sort of said, you do these hallmark moments at the end, and I don't think they're hallmark. I think they're pretty poignant and insightful.

[B]

Oh, thank you. Yeah, yeah. Gregor will rib me over the course of the episode. Yeah. The idea behind the show really was to create a forum for these sort of, these moments that just don't die. You know what I mean? That you, you know, imaginary conversations you have with yourself, things that you wish you had said, things that you think about during those nights when you can't sleep. In the case with Gregor, I'll just say that, yeah, he, he had lent a whole bunch of CDs to the techno musician Moby, who ended up using those CDs, sampling those CDs to create his multi platinum selling CD play. And Gregor just wanted to get those. Like he wasn't looking for money, he wasn't looking for fame or accolades. He just actually wanted to get the CDs back. And after 20 odd years of Moby not responding to his messages, we went to Los Angeles and knocked on Moby's door so that Gregor could get back his CDs. And in the of that episode, it really became as, you know, most episodes become like. It's sort of like the thing that a person is looking for in some ways is a MacGuffin. You know, what he really, I think, was looking for was to reignite his friendship with Moby. And they were both able to sit down and rekindle their friendship. And that was really cool.

[C]

I'm curious if people stories, or at least how they approach their stories, changed at all since the pandemic.

[B]

Well, I know that it's, it's changed our modus operandi. We used to do a lot more reporting trips, like where I would go off and see people in person. And when Covid struck, we started doing things over Zoom. And in some ways, you know, I was reluctant. I thought that that would, you know, take away. But in some ways it actually, in ways that I didn't anticipate, it offered something too, because sometimes these were very heavy conversations. And at least the person, when we got off the zoom, was able to feel like they were at home in their in their personal space and they could walk into the other room and be among family and stuff like that. So, so that wasn't so bad. But how do you mean, like in terms more reflective?

[C]

After, after the pandemic, people are by themselves for a lot of time and a lot of time to think.

[B]

Yeah, I know. That's so true. You. Yeah, you would think that that would kind of like create an avalanche of, just of people writing in with, with ruminations and. I don't know. Actually, I wish that probably there must be some kind of like way to use AI to kind of like chart all of the emails and see if like there was an uptick in, in a certain kind of email post. Covid. It's, it's possible. I'm not, I'm not sure though.

[C]

That's an episode for you.

[B]

There you go. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

We're talking about Heavyweight. Season nine is airing now. I've been talking with Jonathan Goldstein. It is very nice to speak with you.

[B]

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

[C]

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