Loading summary
Transcript54 lines
- [00:00]
A
Foreign. This is all of it on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. As we celebrate the 250th anniversary of this country's independence from the British, we're looking back on the role New York played in the Revolution. Just a few weeks after signing the Declaration, the first major and largest battle of the American Revolution would be fought in Brooklyn. It did not go well for the young nation. The Continental army was, to quote a song from the musical Hamilton, outgunned, outmanned, outnumbered, out planned. Hundreds of Americans died. Thousands were captured and locked away in prison ships. George Washington had to retreat across the east river, and New York City would remain under British control until 1783. A new exhibit at the center for Brooklyn History revisits the battle and looks at how its story has been told or not over the centuries. It's titled the Battle of Brooklyn Fought and Remembered. It's now on display at the Brooklyn Public Library center for Brooklyn History. Joining us to talk about it is Dominique Jean Louis, the chief, the center's chief historian. Dominique, welcome back.
- [01:18]
B
Thank you so much. I'm so thrilled to be here.
- [01:21]
A
So why was Brooklyn the site of the largest battle of the Revolution?
- [01:25]
B
Well, why Brooklyn is really because it wasn't Manhattan. Right at the last minute, the British decided instead of launching a double attack, to just attack the island of Long island and spit, specifically the Brooklyn portion. And so the Continental army was really left scrambling because they were a little bit unprepared for this attack.
- [01:43]
A
What was at stake?
- [01:45]
B
Everything was at stake. I mean, this was the first time when the British and the American troops really met in battle formation, man to man. In some ways, of course, it's the, the outcome of the war, but it's also, is this thing going to continue? Is it going to end in humiliation? Is this going to be a war that drags on for a long time? And is this country going to get its entire independence? Basically, everything was at stake.
- [02:09]
A
Listeners, we want to invite you into this conversation. Do you have a question about the battle for Brooklyn? Give us a call at 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. You can also text to us at that number. Were you taught in school about the Battle of Brooklyn? Were you around during Brooklyn's bicentennial celebration? Call us at 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. Dominique, why do you think this battle doesn't loom as large in the public consciousness like Lexington or the Battle of Yorktown sure.
- [02:44]
B
In some ways, I don't know. It's a thrilling story. It's one of luck and perseverance and difficulty and being outnumbered, as you mentioned. So in some ways, I think this story is waiting to be embraced. But then also in the research, it came out that for a long time in Brooklyn's history, this wasn't a history that was really embraced. Brooklynites felt ashamed that their location was the site of a defense of a pretty major defeat and didn't want to talk about it at length. And I think that's starting to change now.
- [03:14]
A
Let's take a call. This is Tom, who's calling in from Manhattan. Hi, Tom, thanks for calling all of it.
- [03:20]
C
Hi, good afternoon. This great. That some more attention to the battle in Brooklyn. And it was a defeat, of course, but it was a defeat that blocked the British forces from advancing as quickly as they might have. And largely that's due to our, our friends and our fellow countrymen from Maryland. And the Marylanders were defending the blockhouse, which is now in Prospect park, and really stopped the British forces from advancing when a lot of the other Continentals had disappeared. And these, if we want to bring it up to data a little more, the Maryland National Guard were the first troops that arrived in the capital on January 6 to defend the country then as well. So a great call out to the Marylanders who fought in Brooklyn and fought in Washington.
- [04:04]
A
Again, thank you so much for the call. Thanks.
- [04:07]
B
Yeah, the Marylanders are a major part of this story. I mean, the exhibition is called the Battle of Brooklyn Fought and Remembered. And when we're thinking about commemorations across the borough of Brooklyn, you really see the Marylanders being one of the key stories that's featured. There's a monument in Prospect park, there are plaques. There's really a commitment to celebrating the story of the sacrifice of those soldiers.
- [04:30]
A
What did Washington and the Continental army, what did they learn from the Battle of Brooklyn?
- [04:36]
B
Oh, I think there are a lot of lessons learned. I mean, on the one hand, there's no substitute for preparation. Right. One of the reasons the Maryland soldiers were, you know, sacrificed for the battle is because they were the best trained. I think that one of the battles is really preparation or one of the lessons is really preparation, but also that this was going to be a long, drawn out fight. This wasn't going to be a quick victory. And I think a lot of, you know, solemnity came afterwards of, okay, this is really going to be a long fight, a difficult fight. Let's really dig in.
- [05:09]
A
Let's talk about the geography?
- [05:10]
B
Yes.
- [05:11]
A
What did the landscape of 18th century Brooklyn look like as compared to today? And how did that factor into the battle?
- [05:19]
B
This battle was in some ways defined by Brooklyn's landscape. So on the one hand you have this ridge, this backbone that runs along Brooklyn created by, you know, glaciers in the early ice age. And those, the passes through that ridge are really the hot points of the battle. Those would be the decisive places where a victory would be declared. And so, you know, the American army's inability to defend all four of the pathways between those ridges or through that ridge would really be how the British gained the advantage. And of course, Brooklyn's status on the waterfront and Washington's ability to escape across the east river due to a miraculous fog that covered his actions. Everything about the way that Brooklyn is situated on Long island, how it's geography as organized, really defined the way the battle played out.
- [06:09]
A
This caller who couldn't stand the line but wanted to know more about the role of the Old Stone House in the Battle of Brooklyn.
- [06:16]
B
Absolutely. So the Old Stone House, it's so amazing that we still have a site to really think about the events of this battle. So the site of the Old Stone House is where that stand of the Marylanders took place. Basically, those Maryland soldiers were sent to ward off the advancing, advancing British while the rest of the army fled. It's hard to imagine. Now, the Old Stone House is, you know, situated on Washington park and Park Slope, but that area used to have a big creek in it. So you have American forces swimming across the creek while the Marylanders were stationed at the Old Stone House fighting off the British. We have a beautiful painting in our collection that's on display now that shows that scene of absolute chaos. But the Old Stone House is kind of the. The grounding site, the grounding kind of site of memory that really lets remember that story.
- [07:05]
A
I'm speaking with Dominique Jean Louis, the chief historian at the center for Brooklyn History. We're talking about the new exhibit the Battle of Brooklyn Fought and Remembered. We want to invite you into this conversation. Do you have a question about the Battle for Brooklyn? Give us a call. 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC and we were curious, what were you taught in school about the Battle of Brooklyn? 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC this text says black slaves both fought and got caught in the crossfire in the Battle of Bricklin. Does your guest have any information?
- [07:44]
B
Absolutely. So one of the things the exhibition talks about is how in the time of the American Revolution, Brooklyn was very much a place where slavery thrived. In fact, enslaved people were charged with building some of the fortifications of the forts before the British attack. So the contours of the B are very much shaped by slave labor. And then, of course, they're bearing witness right as British soldiers advance, they're being quartered in the homes of Dutch farmers, many of whom were slave owners. And then we also talk about the people that Washington enslaved, specifically William Lee, who was his valet and kind of spyglass holder. And the work of William Lee is how Washington is able to survey the battle and make his next moves.
- [08:26]
A
All right, when I walk into the exhibit. Let's get practical for a minute. Yes, please. When I walk into the exhibit, what is the first thing I'll see?
- [08:32]
B
So the first thing you'll see is the big title of the exhibition. And just around the corner, you're going to see the peek out of these five historic maps. Maps are such an important part of telling the story because, of course, it's 1776. We don't have photographs. We don't really have anything. But what we have are the maps of the time period. And not only do we have a couple that show the advancement of the troops and show the places where the battle took place, but we actually have a map from 1556. It's the earliest known map printed of what is now New York Harbor. And what I love about that map, and it's one of the first ones you see when you walk in, is that that map was made about 250 years before the Battle of Brooklyn. And now we're 250 years after. You're getting to see all of what Brooklyn has been up until this point. And of course, in 1556, what you see is indigenous life. So you get to see native people in their homeland of what is now Brooklyn. And it's such a special moment to ground us in the history of what this land has been.
- [09:29]
A
Let's take another caller. This is Peter calling from Syosset. Hi, Peter. Thanks for taking the time to call, all of it.
- [09:37]
C
Hi. Well, thanks for. Thanks for taking my call. A couple of things. When I was growing, when I was in school, it wasn't the Battle of Brooklyn. It was called the Battle of Long Island. So at some point, the name has been changed. Another thing, in terms of the military activity, the British had bayonets. The Americans had never encountered bayonets. And so in the opening phases of the battle when the British were ferried across from Staten island into Brooklyn, and they charged the American troops who were waiting for them and just absolutely routed them. The Americans were terrified of these bayonets. They'd never encountered them before in battle. So that's pretty much what I had to say. I mean, other callers have talked about the fog that helped the Americans escape to Manhattan and about how the British found on the American left flank there was a small pass that had been unguarded, and they were able to get through that pass and outflank the Americans actually come in behind them, which contributed to the rout. It was a terrible defeat.
- [11:01]
A
Peter, thanks for the explanation. I wanted to ask about him being. About it being called the Battle of Long Island. Yes.
- [11:10]
B
So you definitely see it referred to as both over time and certainly, you know, at the time of the Battle of Brooklyn, there wasn't really a Brooklyn. Right. You had all of these different villages of Flatbush and Brooklyn Heights. And so it's really only until you get a Brooklyn in the 19th century and beyond that Brooklyn itself begins to embrace this history, because, of course, the entire battle took place in what is now Brooklyn. So we kind of use both throughout the exhibition because both terms have been used throughout history. And of course, Brooklyn is part of Long island, that we have a shared history. So I think both terms are apartment And I'm very glad this caller made the point about the violence of the battle and specifically the bayonets. You know, stab, twist, pull is the kind of procedure there. And the violence of that. He's completely correct. It was incredibly intimidating and devastating. This wasn't just valor and fighting. This is really bloody, awful violence. And I think it's important to keep that at the forefront of our memory.
- [12:04]
A
Could you say that again about the bayonets?
- [12:06]
B
What I was always taught in school was that the procedure for a bayonet is stab, twist, pull, and to do kind of maximum damage. So, you know, it's. It's definitely not a soft instrument to be using in war.
- [12:19]
A
As you were putting together the exhibit, were there misconceptions that you wanted to correct with it?
- [12:24]
B
I think there were definitely misconceptions, specifically, I think, about how much Brooklyn felt aligned with the American cause. You know, one of the reasons the British were able to land in Gravesend from Staten island with little incident is because they weren't really getting here. Opposed. A lot of the inhabitants of what is now Brooklyn at the time weren't necessarily aligned with the American cause. In fact, some of them weren't aligned with the British cause either. Many of them were Dutch speaking farmers who were kind of wanted to get on with growing their crops and raising their. Their livestock and kind of didn't feel invested on either side. And some of that alignment with the American cause and even some of the ones who decided to declare loyalty to the British, that would come later. There was a lot of variation in how invested people felt and who would ultimately be victorious. And that, that sense that not everyone was for the American cause, I think is something that's important to remember.
- [13:19]
A
Let's talk to William who's calling us from Connecticut. Hi, William. Thank you so much for taking the time to call, all of it.
- [13:26]
C
Well, thank you very much for receiving the call. Just curious. My father was raised in a home almost at the corner of Flatbush Avenue and Kings Highway, a couple of blocks away. And there was this church facility right across the street still standing there. And I think it's a dust reform church. I'm not sure if it goes back to the revolution, goes back to the battle of Brooklyn, but are you aware of that in your research and do you have any comments about it?
- [14:02]
B
Sure, it's an excellent question. And you know, famously, Brooklyn is often known as the land of a thousand churches, right. And even at the time of the battle of Brooklyn, we did have these Dutch Reformed churches that were dotting the landscape. And we definitely have accounts of soldiers looking to the steeples and otherwise the architecture of those churches as kind of sight lines as they were advancing, retreating, trying to make their way through, you know, billows of musket smoke.
- [14:26]
A
Let's talk to Klaus from Norwalk, Connecticut. Hi, Klaus. Thank you so much for taking the time to call, all of it.
- [14:32]
C
Hello?
- [14:33]
A
Hello.
- [14:35]
C
Oh, I'm sorry, I thought I wasn't there. Yes, thank you for taking the call. I wanted to talk about, well, like I said, the strategy. The British came around behind the Americans and like another caller was saying, the. The redcoats are very disciplined troops at the time and scared the crap out of most people. What I wanted to say, though, is that Washington was smart enough to get his army out and had sailors and watermen from Marblehead, Massachusetts, and around the area row his entire army across in the middle of the night. So he didn't win, but he didn't lose.
- [15:20]
A
That's an interesting point. Thank you for bringing that up, Klaus. When did it begin to shift that people didn't want to remember the Battle of Brooklyn to sort of looking at it and taking in what they could from it? When did that shift start to happen?
- [15:35]
B
So it looks like that shift definitely started to happen the closer we get to the 20th century. And I think it has to do with the way that Brooklyn itself was growing and beginning to tell its own story. Of course, Brooklyn was its own city until 1898, but once it becomes part of New York City, especially once the United States is victorious in World War I and World War II and people come back from that battle and feel a renewed sense of patriotism, I think that's when we get the sense that we should be building monuments, that our war history is very important. We are a country of winners. And even though this battle was not a victory, we can still honor what it says about our military prowess. And so I think in 1908, we get the Prison Ship Martyrs Monument. We start to see them building up across the 20th century. And I think that has a lot to do with America on the world stage. And also Brooklyn feeling proud of its history and feeling like it has a very special story to tell.
- [16:29]
A
This text says, I was driving around in Greenwood Cemetery a couple of years ago and came across a marker for the Battle of Brooklyn. Was that location significant?
- [16:39]
B
Absolutely. So what is today Greenwood Cemetery is the site of the major events of the Battle of Brooklyn. And in fact, even to today, that is the highest point in Brooklyn. And famously, if you go up that hill, you can see the Statue of Liberty. And that's, you know, one of the reasons it was so important in that, in that scene of battle. So it's one of the best places if you want to kind of stand on history and really feel connected with the events. Not only can you stand on that hill, but there's an altar to Liberty that was commissioned by a local businessman and historian named Charles Higgins. So it feels very steeped with the gravitas of that moment.
- [17:16]
A
I am speaking with Dominique Jean Louis, the chief historian at the center for Brooklyn History. We're talking about the new exhibit, the Battle of Fought and Remembered. This text says, is it true that there are Battle of Brooklyn soldiers buried beneath the Flatbush Reformed Church on the corner of Flatbush Ave. And Church Ave.
- [17:38]
B
Oh, I don't know the answer to that question. What I do know is that there are many relics and bones of the battle. I mean, hundreds of Americans lost their lives or American soldiers lost their lives. And in fact, some of the remains of those who were imprisoned on prison ships in the east river were washing on the shore of Brooklyn for many years afterwards. And some of those remains are interred at the base of the prison ship Martyrs monument in Fort Greene Park. And so it's very possible that there are remains of others kind of throughout Brooklyn. But it's also possible that, you know, legend and rumor has guided where some of those are. Been so many different stories and tall tales, maybe some of them factual, maybe some of them invented, about where some of these remains are. But what is definitely safe to say is that we're standing on that history. We're standing atop the events of that story. Whether or not it's the actual bones is a little bit harder to say.
- [18:32]
A
I was going to ask you about the floating dungeons. Tell us more.
- [18:35]
B
Oh, the floating dungeons. So the prison ships that were stationed in the east river in Wallabout Bay, which is just outside today's Brooklyn Navy Yard, Some of the most difficult history of the battle of Brooklyn, Many of captured during the battle, were then sent to basically meet their fate. And these hollowed out warships that the British stationed in the east river and the firsthand accounts of what conditions were like are some of the most horrific things you can read. There was pestilence and disease and just horrible scenes of basically man's inhumanity to man. And I think that's one of the important takeaways of, you know, not just the battle of Brooklyn, but the revolutionary War in general. As I mentioned before, this is a very violent encounter. And I think it behooves us to really think about how we treat one another and how in the crisis of a time like war, people can really do away with humanity and lead to some really stunning instances of neglect and mistreatment.
- [19:33]
A
Something that you can learn in the exhibit is about Elizabeth Burgin. She is able to help people escape from the ships. Tell us about her.
- [19:43]
B
Yes, I was delighted to learn more about this story in the research. So, you know, some of the accounts are different. We, of course, don't have perfect information, but she was documented as saving people from aboard the prison ships or other sites of British captivity during the Revolutionary war. And while we don't have any paintings of her, of course there's no photographs. We do have several levels letters that she wrote to Congress afterwards basically saying, I should get a war pension. I served in the war. I might not have been a soldier, but I did help the cause. She has lovely penmanship. We have an image of one of her letters in the exhibition, and I think it's an important symbol of. Yes, you know, we honor and remember the bravery of the soldiers. But those are not the only people who made sacrifices and contributed to the American cause. You have, as I mentioned, enslaved people. You have women who are also finding ways to contribute.
- [20:34]
A
Do you have a favorite part of the exhibit that you really like that you want people to spend a little more time with?
- [20:39]
B
I think the maps are very special. They're not part of our collection. The five maps we have on display are very special loans. You're not going to be able to see them for all. And as I mentioned, that map showing indigenous life from 1556 is enormously special. That's at the very beginning of the exhibition, I have to say, at the very end, when we talk about the 1976 bicentennial, I love that moment too. We have yearbooks of kids from Brooklyn in 1976 with their afros thinking about the Revolutionary War. And I just think that's a perfect kind of endpoint to everything that Brooklyn has been and everything that Brooklyn is today and how we are nothing more than the stories we tell each other. And thinking about Brooklyn as not just where we live, but, you know, a site of common ground. I think that's really the lesson we learned from digging into this history.
- [21:24]
A
The name of the exhibit is the Battle of Brooklyn Fought and Remembered. I've been speaking with Dominique Jean Louis, the chief historian at the center for Brooklyn History. Thanks for sharing all of your knowledge with us.
- [21:37]
B
Thanks so much. Love to talk about it.
- [21:39]
A
Since WNYC's first broadcast in 1924, we've been dedicated to creating the kind of content we know the world needs. In addition to this award winning reporting, your sponsorship also supports inspiring storytelling and extraordinary music that is free and accessible to all. To get in touch and find out more, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.