← All Of It with Alison Stewart
All Of It with Alison Stewart
The War And Treaty Perform
00:27:31
.Powerhouse country and Americana duo The War and Treaty join us live in the studio to perform
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- [00:08]
A
This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. This week on the show, we've put together what we call producer picks. Each day, a different producer on our team picks some of their recent favorite interviews, and you get to hear a little more about what made them stand out. Today's picks come from Simon Close, and he's put together a show that includes a documentary about Pee Wee Herman. And we'll hear from its director, Matt Wolf. Then we'll talk about dogs with callers. Elias Weiss Friedman, AKA the Doggist. He has a new book titled this Dog Will Change youe Life. And we'll also hear from musical duo Wendy and Lisa from our Women's History Month series about female engineers and producers. But first, music from another duo, the War and Treaty. The War and Treaty are one of our favorite bands around here at Olivet. There's a lot going for them. They're Grammy nominees, American music Award winners. They're also a married couple. And there's a movie being made about their love story. On Valentine's Day this year, they dropped an album called Plus One and they came by our studio to play some songs from it. Simon Close from Team Olivet produced this one. And he joins me now to talk about why he picked it for today's producer picks. Hey, Simon.
- [01:33]
B
Hey, Alison.
- [01:34]
A
So why did you pick this one?
- [01:36]
B
I think, as you said, we just love the War and Treaty around here. They are a married couple duo and you can just like feel the love in the music they make. This also, they just sound really good. So this was a session we did in our studio and they brought in, I forget how many music, but it was a full band and it was just great to hear them translate this, like, big sound they have into our little studio. But one moment from this interview that really stuck out to me was sort of later on in the interview, you hear Michael mention their first album, Hartstown, which we had them on for back in 2020, I think when it first came out. And he says that he felt that that album was a failure because it came out, you know, in the middle of the pandemic and it was hard to promote an album. Then they ended up losing or like getting dropped from their label that they were on at the time. And when that album came out, I adored it. And it is truly an album that I listen to. Like every once in a while I come back to it and it's a no Skips album for me. So after the interview when they were coming out, I said, you know, that Sounded great. Thanks so much for stopping by. Also, just for the record, Hartstown is not a failure of an album. And I just remember seeing the look on Michael's face with when I said that to him. And, like, hearing this feedback that actually, this album that didn't do commercially super well and they had to kind of recover from it, touched at least one person. And we had a big hug about it. And so this was a really special one for me.
- [03:03]
A
All right, let's hear it. This is the War and Treaty.
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C
Yeah, yeah.
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D
Rocking without Sy. Listen. Sunday morning she's a bonafide preacher Laying.
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C
Hands all over me Monday morning she's a certified teacher I'm the lesson that she loves to teach Tuesday she's a race car driver a buck 80 burning every curve Drive me crazy, friends look on Wednesday can't get enough of her and I put her first I put her first Can I get an amen? Can I get an amen? Can I get an amen? It get an amen I said get an amen oh giving you the best that we got yeah come on, T my hot tiny on a Thursday after working one long hard day out with.
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E
The boys Turning up on Fridays getting.
- [04:57]
C
All playing booms and stays end of the week you can catch him on a Saturday right here laying next to me Just the way we like it Peace and quiet he's everything that I need and I put him first Said I impass Can I get an A man? Put my family over everything Shout it out if it's you Can I get an amen? Can I get an amen? Can I get an amen? From the streets to the country roads back can't argue with the truth Amen baby gotta go with no little mama so strong right and all my wrong Amen I be singing all night long I'm high as a drone Hallelujah Boots on my arm is my baby so fly Amen I would him first yeah, baby, him first Can I get it? Amen Shout it out if it's you Can I get it at me? I'm bad don't try swinging from my neighbor Can I get it at me? Got faith in the tank Always gas up, drink a beer Can I get an amen? Can I get an amen? Can I get an amen? Can I get an amen? Can I get an amen? Can I get an amen?
- [08:00]
F
Amen Can I just tell you how many times can I say it? That's the war and treaty, you know I was listening there listening and I was Thinking they produced this record at the Fame Studios, right? The Muscle Shoals sound. How does making a record there influence how it sounds? Tanya?
- [08:23]
E
Well, I mean, the history. When you think of that room and you think of all the people that have had the opportunity to stand behind that booth and what they brought, you know, so the going in the door, immediately, the standards are high. Not just the singers, but the musicians that have also, you know, played in that room. And it just changes how you approach your songs, and it changes how you come into your sessions. You know, there's a reverence in that building. And so us and our band, what we brought to that was that reverence. And, you know, we're very excited that we had an opportunity to record it there.
- [09:02]
A
Michael, the New York Times profile said, here's the headline. The Warren Treaty are writing their love story into country music history. Why do you think country music is a good vehicle for telling your personal story?
- [09:15]
D
Well, I think it's always a good vehicle when it's an opportunity to tell a different story. I think that's the key and the goal here. I think so many people believe country music is one way it looks this one way it represents this one thing. And what Ty and I do is we're bringing the representation, but also we're doing a return. Our journey with country music began with Ray Charles, you know, and then country music's journey itself. A lot of people, you know, they go way back with the banjo. But if you will go and you look at some of those stories that the Carter family have, and sitting with those black families and those black farmers and just those black southerners, they are the originators of country music. And they looked exactly like Tanya and I.
- [10:04]
F
The banjo came from Africa.
- [10:06]
D
Absolutely. Absolutely.
- [10:08]
F
Tanya, before the Warren Treaty, you were a solist working in soloist. Excuse me, working in RB and gospel. What was your move into country music? Was it intentional? Was it something just came and found you?
- [10:21]
E
I would have to say that country music, it found me. I mean, as Michael said, it's always been storytelling, and the truth has always been the foundation of gospel music. So I think that I've always had my foot in what I know as traditional storytelling. And the country music industry just found Michael and I, you know, we were. We moved from Michigan, and we didn't even really know that there was a such thing called the Americana genre. We were just doing music that we loved. And Albion, Michigan, introduced us to the blues all over again. It's not that we didn't know it, but it really ignited something different in us. And so we infused the blues and the gospel and it just happened to have certain instruments in there that lean into country music. So I think that the country music genre, it really found us and welcomed us with open arms because of maybe the soulful sounds that are on top of instruments that people may not, you know, have heard those voices collaborate with in this era.
- [11:26]
F
Yeah. As I say, three chords in the truth.
- [11:28]
E
Yeah.
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F
Right.
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E
Yes.
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A
You're listening to a session with the War and Treaty from their latest album, Plus One. This is all of it and we will be right back. This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. The War and Treaty released their latest album, Plus One back in February on Valentine's Day. The duo joined us in studio to play songs from it and we're revisiting that conversation as part of this week's producer picks. Here's more from the War and Treaty.
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D
Max Brown on acoustic guit. Tom Davis on bass. Bam on drum. Slim on keys. Let's go, y'.
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C
All. I don't know day all hours.
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D
When.
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C
This old body will lose power But I gained a second try walking with.
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D
You by my side.
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C
Do you see a flowery cloud Two broken hearts become one Like a screaming ego Star in the sun I have found love in.
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D
A glorious one let's go now.
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C
Can you hear the breath in the trees Cooling us with it's cool breath island may flash and the thunder may roar I have my my heart down in my soul and when light's dim we'll take our rest and fade off in the sunset May our story be shine in the land the glorious one in the land the glorious one in the land of glorious one.
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A
That'S the War and Treaty singing the Glorious ones off their new album. It is called Plus One. So I think there are 18 songs on the record.
- [15:58]
E
Yes.
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A
Okay. So what went into that choice?
- [16:01]
E
Well, we had a lot of songs. I mean, we recorded, I believe, 60 songs, maybe more.
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A
60?
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E
Yeah.
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F
It's getting laughs from over here.
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C
Yeah.
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E
So there's like a double. A double vinyl when you buy the record. We recorded a lot of songs.
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D
There's a bus flowing through here somewhere and I'm being thrown under.
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E
Yeah. Michael's feet are hanging from under the bus. Yeah.
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A
So Michael, what went into that choice?
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D
A love of the music.
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A
Yeah.
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D
And a lack of somebody telling me to stop. That's what that is. Yeah. I E. Tonya.
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E
Yeah. He can't be stopped when he's in the riding zone. That's it. Yeah.
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A
Well, you also are producers on the record.
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E
Yeah.
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A
Which means you get to make those kinds of decisions.
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E
That's right.
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D
That's right.
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E
See?
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A
So what is a sonic decision? A decision you made that seemed a little risky.
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D
It is risky.
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A
That's risky, yes.
- [16:54]
D
I don't know. I think in a time where people who play it safe lose, we're seeing it. We're seeing it in everyday life. And the Warren Treaty, we're not a safe band. We take risk, whether it be musical risk or whether it be a fashion risk, you know, we take those risks and we take them proudly. And at the end of the day, we take those risks because they're honest. That's all.
- [17:28]
A
In terms of producing the album. Tonya, what does it say to you that you're at a place where you want to produce your own music versus just songwriting and handing it in?
- [17:39]
E
Well, I think it says growth and it says that you. I don't think you. I think you. Over time, you do learn to trust yourself, you know, as a musician, as an artist and now co producer on a lot of our projects. It's growing into trusting yourself, you know, because it does seem easier to just write a bunch of songs and give it to someone and let them nurture it into the world. But when you decide that you kind of know what it sounds like, you want to know what your mixes sound like. You want to know. You want to give the freedom to your band to be creative as well. And sometimes you don't have that with the musicians.
- [18:19]
D
They're not that good.
- [18:19]
E
Yeah, you know, you want to have. You want the freedom. I think it says that you've grown into a place where you really just want to have the freedom to have what it is that you write and you create to sound the way that you want it to sound when it comes, when it hits the ear wave of your fans.
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D
But also, I'm the producer.
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E
Yes, he is. It was me.
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A
I was straight up side eye.
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D
It is not Tanya. Tanya.
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E
They're solid because they know Tanya's the.
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D
Co. Like, wait a little bit. Like, a little itty bitty. Like we say co, like softly. Yeah, but I'm the producer.
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A
Our producer.
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E
So I get all of this at 3:00am in the morning, but only if.
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D
This project fails is she the actual producer.
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A
Understood?
- [19:07]
E
Yeah. If it doesn't work, then I'll take.
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F
What did you, as a producer, what did you learn about the way the war and treaty have grown?
- [19:15]
D
I like to now defer this question to Tommy. No, you can use the word Growth.
- [19:21]
F
Use the word growth.
- [19:22]
D
I'll tell you what. I produced our album called Hearthstone. Completely different experience. I think the first thing that I have learned is that I. That no producer knows what they're really doing without a cast. And for me, Tanya is my supporting cast in everything. But I got another brain, another side of my brain when it comes to producing, and that is the side that is irritating and throbbing. And it's. Its name is Max Brown. So he's right there, and he. You know, he. He is someone who you have to get out of the way and in the way at the same time, and that's what makes it all work. And then with your musicians, you have to literally tell them, you know, be you. Especially this group. This group, they like to think they know what they're doing when they go in the studio and producing. And then they're, like, playing all safe and quiet and stuff. I'm like, what in the heck are y' all doing? Like, go for it. Like, be yourself, you know? But the biggest lesson in all of this is this one thing. Always let Tanya lead. You won't fail.
- [20:36]
E
He's getting brownie points right now.
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D
No brownie point. No brownie point. I'm actually being extremely serious.
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E
Oh, you are? Okay.
- [20:44]
D
I haven't failed in life when that has happened. And I think Harshtown was a failure, in my opinion, because I have a hashtag called Mortania, and I think that that is a very important hashtag to have. More Tanya in the story, more Tanya in speaking, more tyen. Her fashion, as you so kindly are wearing one of Tanya's designs that she didn't even acknowledge. You see how I do?
- [21:09]
E
I don't have my glasses on, so.
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D
I have to make sure that's a nice excuse.
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E
Thank you.
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D
We're talking about a voice of our time. In my opinion, Tanya is one of the greatest, if not the greatest vocalists that I believe needs some time to shine. So our next project, Pie for me is the Moretanya.
- [21:29]
E
Aw, that's so sweet, honey.
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F
So let's talk fashion while we're here, let's talk fashion. She loves vintage dot com. Do you still run it?
- [21:35]
E
I do, yes. I took a break from it to make this record because it's another child, you know, you have to dedicate a lot of time. And then we have the tour coming up. But once the tour starts, we'll have. Thank you so much for wearing it too.
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F
I'm wearing it. She loves vintage shirts.
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C
Yes.
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E
We'll have all the merch and everything. So I'm very excited about that as well.
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F
All right. We're talking to the war and treaty. You know, there's a song on the album called I Can't Let yout Go. And it busts out and then it rocks out. And then you have, like, spoken word and rap at the end. What led you to that sort of shift in the.
- [22:09]
E
In the album?
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F
It's like, whoa, wait a minute.
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D
You know, it's very strategic. Okay. As a producer, I'm going back to that. It's very strategic who you have in the studio as your musicians and. And so many producers. They don't want your band. And I think that's what makes me special, because I want my band. I can't see me doing anything without Bam. Slim Tom, Max, period. But they invoke something in me. They bring out that guy. They do the way they play their swag. Sometimes they do certain things and points me to an old life. I used to. I mean, I still do. I'm a hip hop head. Like. I mean, we in New York, baby. Like the greatest MCs ever resonate from here. And that was a side of me to where I write a lot of poetry and I write a lot of rhymes. And the way they were just doing it, I was like, man, I'm gonna have to spit right here. Like, might not be that good. Cause we have an emcee in the band right there. Bam. You know? But I ran it all through him. Slim Tom. And that's what did it for me. Yeah, I was like, I got Pop Dakota on this one.
- [23:22]
F
I wanted to talk about the movie in the works. It's produced by John Legend. Right. How did that opportunity come up, Tanya?
- [23:31]
E
Well, let me think. Okay. So we were in Nashville, and a friend of ours, he actually. No, I'm sorry. Let me backtrack. We were in Connecticut, and we were doing. Let Me Go. Andrew Gold. Let Me Go say His Name. We were there doing. And Andrew came to our show, and we thought he was coming to see the show, but we started telling our story. And Andrew was like, one second. Let me get my tape recorder. He had this big old tape recorder from, like, the 1960s. And he pushed play and he started listening to our story. So he'd taken that to his brother's roommate. I'm going somewhere.
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A
I got you.
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E
Okay. Who happened to be. I believe it was Will. Will McCormick. They went to college together. And Will is a writer. And I think Will and Craig. Craig did Dallas Buyers Club. Will did all kinds of Toy Story 4. Yeah. Toy Story.
- [24:22]
D
Four projects. With Rashida Jones.
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E
Yeah, with Rashida Jones.
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F
That's a good thing.
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E
And let them hear our story from this cassette. And so they got on the phone, they were like, we want to do a story on you guys. And we were just kind of blowing it off. We're like, yeah, yeah. Some Hollywood producers and writers are, like, wanting to do a story on Little Girl while sitting in Nashville. And so they flew to Nashville and they had a studio. They set Michael and I down in front of a camera, and we sat there and told our story for about three, four hours, I believe. Yeah, it was about three or four hours. And maybe a couple of weeks later, they were like, hey, we have a couple other people who want to come on board. We met Harvey Mason Jr. At that time.
- [25:04]
D
Well, first. I'm sorry, honey. We gotta make sure we get this right. First, Gary Gilbert.
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E
Gary Gilbert, Yes.
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D
And Gary Gilbert is special to the story because he and John Legend actually partnered to give us what we know as La La Land.
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E
Yeah.
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D
So that's the meet. Yeah, exactly.
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E
Yeah.
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D
And then came Harvey.
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E
And then came Harvey. Harvey Mason Jr.
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D
Yes, and then Harvey.
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E
And then Harvey brought on John Legend. He called us one day and he was like, hey, I think I have somebody who really wants to be involved in this project. And, of course, all. You know, John has done some incredible things with film and theater and all the different things. And we were like, oh, my God.
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D
John Legend get in trouble if we don't do this.
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E
Yeah.
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D
John Legend's partner, first off.
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E
Yes.
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D
One of them is Mike Jackson, who listens to you all the time. So I would.
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F
Hi, Mike.
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D
Mike is the producing partner in Get Lifted films. And so. And then Ty. So the three of them. Yeah, yeah. And that's how they.
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E
And that's how it happened. And so John Legend is a part of the film. He'll be producing it along with Gary Gilbert. And. And it just all ties in because our son's name's Legend and Michael.
- [26:12]
D
That's right. John Legend's one of my favorite artists.
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E
Yeah.
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D
And shout out to Numa Perrier, who is our director. She's a phenomenal director who Oprah named as the next, and she is our actual director.
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F
So when is it gonna come out?
- [26:27]
D
Well, you know, it's a very interesting thing that I'm gonna tell you, but it's coming. We're actually moving now into the casting phase, so I'm super excited about it. We've been batting some as to who could play me and then who could play Tanya. And I don't, I won't say much about this, but I will say this. Here's the tag. The war brought him music. Music brought him love. And the film is actually called the War and Treaty.
- [26:53]
E
Yeah.
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F
What would a person watching this film take away from your love story, Tonya?
- [27:00]
E
Resilience.
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F
Interesting.
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E
It's a love story. Love story about resilience.
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A
That was the War and Treaty. Their latest album is titled Plus One. Coming up, musical duo Wendy and Lisa were the first women nominated for a Grammy for producer of the Year. We'll hear from them about Prince and the revolution and breaking out as a duo. That's next.