Podcast Episode Summary

Podcast: All Of It
Host: Alison Stewart (WNYC)
Episode: The War and Treaty Perform
Date: August 20, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode features an in-studio performance and conversation with The War and Treaty, the dynamic married duo known for their genre-blending sound that mixes country, soul, gospel, and blues. Alison Stewart, joined by producer Simon Close, explores the couple’s new album Plus One, their artistic journey, the importance of representation in country music, and a forthcoming biopic produced by John Legend. The episode offers live music, behind-the-scenes creative insights, and heartfelt anecdotes.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why The War and Treaty Were Featured

• Producer Simon Close selected this session as a highlight because of the band’s palpable energy, emotional storytelling, and resilience through industry challenges.
• Simon on Michael’s Vulnerability:

  “Michael mention[s] their first album, Hartstown, which…he felt…was a failure because it came out…in the middle of the pandemic and it was hard to promote… they… ended up… getting dropped from their label… after the interview… I said… Hartstown is not a failure of an album… hearing this feedback… touched at least one person.” (02:17)

• Personal Connection: Simon shares a moment with the band after the recording, highlighting how music can deeply affect even a single listener.

2. Live Performance: “Can I Get an Amen”

• Standout track: The band performs “Can I Get an Amen” (03:20–07:59), showcasing their signature blend of gospel exuberance and country storytelling.
• Memorable lyric:

  “Can I get an amen? Can I get an amen? Put my family over everything, shout it out if it’s you…” (06:50)

3. On Recording at Fame Studios (Muscle Shoals)

• Alison:

  “How does making a record there influence how it sounds? Tanya?” (08:00)

• Tanya’s Reverence:

  “The history… you think of all the people who have… stood behind that booth… the standards are high. Not just the singers, the musicians… there’s a reverence in that building… we brought that reverence.” (08:23)

4. Country Music as a Storytelling Vehicle

• Alison:

  “Why do you think country music is a good vehicle for telling your personal story?” (09:02)

• Michael’s Perspective:

  “So many people believe country music is one way… what Ty and I do is… a return. Our journey with country music began with Ray Charles… the Carter family… sitting with those Black families… they are the originators of country music. And they looked exactly like Tanya and I.” (09:15)

• On Instrument Origins:

  “The banjo came from Africa.” — Alison (10:03)
  “Absolutely. Absolutely.” — Michael

5. Tanya’s Journey from Gospel to Country

• Alison:

  “Before the War and Treaty, you were a soloist working in R&B and gospel. Was your move into country music intentional?” (10:08)

• Tanya:

  “Country music, it found me… gospel has always been storytelling… we moved from Michigan… didn’t even know Americana was a genre… Albion, Michigan, introduced us to the blues all over again… we infused blues and gospel, and it happened to have instruments that lean into country music… the genre really found us and welcomed us with open arms.” (10:21–11:19)

6. Live Performance: “The Glorious Ones”

• Second live song, “The Glorious Ones,” performed with their full band, illustrating the album’s lush, emotional arrangements. (12:14–15:47)

7. Creative & Production Choices on Plus One

• Album Length: 18 tracks, recorded out of more than 60.

  “We recorded, I believe, 60 songs, maybe more.” — Tanya (16:00)

• Decision-Making & Risk:

  “A love of the music and a lack of somebody telling me to stop… we’re not a safe band. We take risks… because they’re honest.” — Michael (16:25–16:53)

• Self-Production:

  “I think it says growth… you do learn to trust yourself as a musician, as an artist… you want the freedom to have what you create sound how you want it to.” — Tanya (17:39–18:38)

8. Reflecting on Growth, Collaboration, and “More Tanya”

• Learning as Producer:

  “No producer knows what they’re really doing without a cast… Tanya is my supporting cast in everything… but the biggest lesson…: always let Tanya lead. You won’t fail.” — Michael (19:21–20:35)

• Heartfelt Acknowledgment:

  “We’re talking about a voice of our time. In my opinion, Tanya is one of the greatest, if not the greatest vocalists… our next project… is the ‘MoreTanya.’” — Michael (21:14–21:28)

9. Fashion & Personal Style

• Tanya’s Vintage Brand:

  “She loves vintage dot com. Do you still run it?” — Alison (21:30)
  “I do, yes. I took a break from it to make this record… we’ll have all the merch and everything. So I’m very excited.” — Tanya (21:35–21:49)
  “I’m wearing it.” — Alison

10. “I Can’t Let You Go” and Genre-Bending

• Alison:

  “On the album… you have spoken word and rap… what led you to that shift?” (21:54)

• Michael:

  “It’s very strategic… so many producers don’t want your band. I want my band… they invoke something in me… I’m a hip hop head… I write poetry and rhymes… I was like, man, I’m gonna have to spit right here.” (22:11–23:11)

11. Upcoming Biopic Produced by John Legend

• Alison:

  “There’s a movie in the works… how did that opportunity come up?” (23:22)

• Tanya & Michael Reveal the Origin Story:

  “Andrew [Gold] came to our show… started listening to our story… took that to his brother’s roommate, Will McCormick… Will and Craig… heard our story from this cassette… wanted to do a story on you guys… then they brought on Gary Gilbert, and then Harvey Mason Jr. and then John Legend.” — Tanya (23:30–25:03) “John Legend get in trouble if we don’t do this… Mike is the producing partner in Get Lifted Films.” — Michael (25:38–25:49)

• The Film:

  “The war brought him music. Music brought him love. The film is actually called The War and Treaty.” — Michael (26:50)

• Director: Numa Perrier—named by Oprah as a director to watch—is attached to the film.
• Takeaway Message:

  “What would a person watching this film take away from your love story, Tanya?” — Alison (26:54)
  “Resilience. It’s a love story about resilience.” — Tanya (26:59)

Notable Quotes

• On Country Music’s Roots:

  “If you go and look at some of those stories that the Carter family have, and sitting with those black families… they are the originators of country music. And they looked exactly like Tanya and I.” — Michael Trotter Jr. (09:15)

• On Artistic Risk:

  “In a time where people who play it safe lose, we’re seeing it… we’re not a safe band.” — Michael (16:53)

• On Growth:

  “You do learn to trust yourself… you want the freedom to have what you write and create to sound the way that you want it to sound when it hits the ear wave of your fans.” — Tanya (17:39–18:38)

• On Partnership:

  “Always let Tanya lead. You won’t fail.” — Michael (20:34)

Important Timestamps

• 00:08–03:02: Introduction, Simon Close shares why he chose this interview
• 03:20–07:59: Live performance: “Can I Get An Amen”
• 08:00–11:19: Muscle Shoals/Fame Studios, roots and genre discussion
• 12:14–15:47: Live performance: “The Glorious Ones”
• 16:00–18:38: Album creation, number of songs, creative decisions
• 19:21–21:28: Producer perspectives, “More Tanya”
• 21:30–21:49: Tanya’s fashion venture
• 22:11–23:11: Spoken word & genre blending
• 23:22–26:52: Biopic story, “The War and Treaty” film
• 26:59: “Resilience” as central to their story

Memorable Moments

• Simon Close’s emotional behind-the-scenes story about telling Michael their first album was not a failure (02:17)
• A rich discussion on Black roots in country music and the duo’s sense of responsibility to that history (09:15–10:06)
• The playful, loving banter as Michael and Tanya debate production credits and jokingly “pass blame” for risk-taking (16:10–18:19)
• Unveiling the origins and current status of their major film project with John Legend (23:22–26:52)
• Tanya’s succinct answer on the theme of resilience at the heart of their film and life story (26:59)

Conclusion

This episode illuminates The War and Treaty’s artistry, resilience, and the loving partnership at the heart of their music. Through live performances and candid discussion, listeners gain insight into the creative process behind Plus One, the duo’s purposeful place in country music history, and their journey from personal struggle to cinematic storytelling. With warmth, humor, and honesty, Michael and Tanya invite us into their world—a space defined by truth, creativity, and, above all, love.