Jack Holden (3:47)

Lovely to be here. Thank you for having me.

Alison Stewart (3:49)

When did you first learn about the story of Ken Rex McElroy?

Jack Holden (3:53)

Well, about eight years ago now. My co creator and director Ed Stambouluian and I wanted to see if we could make a true crime stage show. We are huge fans of podcasts like Serial and S Town and the Netflix shows Making a Murderer and the Jinx. And we felt that there was a space for the form to work on stage. And so we looked around for a story and you probably noticed that I'm not American. And we, but we felt that it should be an American story because of those, those, those things I mentioned before. We were such huge fans of the genre and it felt like the American stories just fit it best. So we looked around, found the Skidmore and Ken Rex McElroy in the 70s and 80s and it just struck us as such a brilliant story full of amazing characters with a really, really interesting moral quandary left at the end.

Alison Stewart (4:46)

I was thinking about this all last night after seeing this show and I thought, how do you write a one person show? I know how to write a short story. I know how you write a play. I know how you write a novella. How do you go about writing a one person play?

Jack Holden (5:00)

Well, because I always knew that I was going to perform it. I would try and make it as easy as possible. Whereas Ed the director, when he wrote it, he would try and make it as difficult as possible. It was essentially you're just writing scenes as, as normal. The only difference is that I'm going to play all of the characters. So I would try and make it, you know, more monologue so you stick with one character for longer. Whereas Ed would make these really snappy dialogue scenes and I would be like, that's gonna be impossible for me to do. And he'd be like, no, I believe in you. I think you can do it.

Alison Stewart (5:30)

That's interesting. The dialogue scared you off a little bit?

Jack Holden (5:33)

Yeah, I think it was the, you know, conventionally, obviously you think about two actors talking to each other and it can be really quick and snappy. Whereas when it's one person having to sort of shift between characters, it automatically is. It's just harder. So I was always trying to, you know, slow it all down, whereas he's always trying to speed it up. And actually, you know, he's so right because it's kind of a magic trick when you see me kind of transform and talk to myself. And it seems weird at first, but then you click into the tone and the style and it's kind of. Yeah, it's like a magic trick.

Alison Stewart (6:03)

It's interesting because our audience, it took them a little while to kind of get in the groove of a little bit. Can you, can you tell when the audience turns totally.

Jack Holden (6:11)

And it's like, it's a lot for the audience to take in. It's like, oh, this guy's actually going to do it. He's actually going to play all of these characters. And there's this, you know, this sort of part of true crime where you sort of, you dump this whole load of information on the audience, you throw them into a world, introduce them to all these characters. You have to get them up to speed really quickly. And I can feel the audience kind of in this overwhelm being like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Okay. But then once you get through that, it's the most rewarding thing because you are just fully immersed in this world.

Alison Stewart (6:41)

My guest is Jack Holden. We're talking about his new one man show, Ken Rex, which tells a story of a killing in a small Missouri town. It's running now at the Lucille Lortel Theater. Just so people get a sense of who he was. What do you want people to know about Ken Rex McElroy?

Jack Holden (6:58)

Yeah, well, he was. He was definitely a bad man. There's no two ways about it. He bullied the people of Skidmore, a small town in, in the Midwest in Missouri for, you know, years, really. He was one of the townsfolk, but he was an outsider and he stole from people. He threatened people. When people stood up to him, he would turn up outside their house and shoot fire off his guns and. And he always got away with it. He was charged 21 times, but never spent a night in PR. He had an amazing defense attorney who kind of. Who kind of. Yeah, he got him out of a lot of sticky spots. But, yeah, he did really bad things and the townsfolk put up with him for A very long time until he crosses a red line and he shoots the village greengrocer, a pillar of the community called Bo Bowenkamp. And the town decide that enough is enough, and they take the law into their own hands.

Alison Stewart (7:53)

You have certain facts you have to stick with so the story makes sense. How much creative license did you take?

Jack Holden (7:59)

I think the biggest. This story's been covered a lot in a lot of different ways. Documentaries. There's a TV movie about it in the 80s, loads of articles and think pieces, so. And all of the details, and all of them ever so slightly different.

Alison Stewart (8:12)

That is very true. Yeah.

Jack Holden (8:14)

Which is interesting. It's sort of taken on this mythic kind of form. So we had to decide what our version of the story would be. But it also, yes, it did have two. Concisely fit into an evening's entertainment at the theater. So we kind of drilled down into our core cast of characters, we amalgamated a few characters, and we just kind of broke it down to its essential parts so that the audience isn't too overwhelmed by the information in the story.

Alison Stewart (8:41)

Ken Rex is a very particular person. You have this slow, deep voice. He also takes a certain stance. I thought, oh, my God, this poor man is in yoga. He's got to be an Alexander technique, the way you have to stand for so long. What went into developing his voice and his physicality?

Jack Holden (8:58)

Yeah. So with all of the characters in the show, you know, there's a sort of core cast of about eight characters, and they really all needed to be super distinct because I don't do any costume changes or anything. I just change my posture and my voice.

Alison Stewart (9:12)

You're wearing. And you're wearing a suit.

Jack Holden (9:14)

I'm wearing a suit. Or a very sort of unattractive brown 1970s,'80s suit. And so, yeah, so I needed to, very early on in rehearsals, make really distinct physical and vocal choices so that the audience are in no doubt about who is speaking at any one time. And the Ken physicality comes from an injury he sustained at a workplace when he was, you know, in legitimate work. And he's also. We sort of decided he's also got this kind of bullish, bulldog, kind of poised, prone energy. He's always ready to attack, always expecting to be attacked. So that fed into his physicality and then the voice. I place all of the characters in a different place in my register and range, and I just sort of felt that he needed to be bad and bassy. And so he's really. He plumbs the depths of my vocal range.

Alison Stewart (10:09)

Would you indulge me in saying in the Voice. My name is Ken Rex McElroy, and I'm from Skidmore, Missouri. So people can understand what he sounds like.

Jack Holden (10:17)

Yeah, he's kind of like right down there, and he's. My Name's Ken Rex McElroy. Yeah. And I'm from Skidmore, Missouri. But, yeah.

Alison Stewart (10:28)

Did you see our control room?

Jack Holden (10:30)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Alison Stewart (10:31)

Everybody stood up and said, oh, my God.

Jack Holden (10:32)

That's the intended effect. That's what I want. But it works really well on microphone, actually here, because when I do that without a microphone, it kind of sounds a bit bare. And that's the other aspect to the show. And what you heard in that. That section up top was that it's. It's partly me, but I'm also surrounded by this incredible sound design. Very meticulous microphone plot where sometimes I've given. I'm given bass boost for Ken, so it sounds extra bassy. And then John Patrick Elliott's music as well, which you heard a bit of there as well.

Alison Stewart (11:03)

We're talking to actor Jack Holden and we're talking about the new show Ken Rex, which tells the story of a killing in small town, Missouri. It's running now at the Lucille Lortel Theater. Okay. Skidmore, Missouri, has a population about 245 people. It's in, like, the northwest part of the state. And as you said, there's been a lot of articles written about this case. What did you pick up from different articles that you wanted. Knew you wanted to weave into the show?

Jack Holden (11:28)

Yeah, I suppose the show ends on a kind of. Yeah. The town do what they do and deal with their Ken problem. And I think it. Initially you thought Ken is such a bad guy that you want him gone as much as the townsfolk do. But then there is this remainder of Ken's wife, Trina, and I think it leaves. Yeah. Bitter taste in the mouth. And I think there's a lot of stories about this kind of. This continued crime and. And. And. Yeah. And murder and violence happening in the town of Skidmore in the years since the crime. And I think there's this sort of sense of a curse put on the land since that event. And I suppose we were interested in that because it is. Yeah. The cycle of crime and retribution never really stops there.

Alison Stewart (12:22)

Let's listen to a little bit more of you portraying some of the town people and we can talk about it on the other side. This is from Ken Rex. Yeah. There's a cold blood rising.

Jack Holden (12:34)

And there's more. Many more, like Janet Goode, the best baker in the Midwest. We got blueberry, raspberry, cranberry, cherry, and Ron Richardson, who runs an auto repair shop two towns over. Well, I said I'd replace the transmission, but I sure as didn't say I'd do it for free. And Glenn Murdoch, the local elementary school teacher. Good morning, children. Good morning, Mr. Murdoch. So, yeah, Skidmore is like every other small town in rural America. It is unremarkable.

Alison Stewart (13:10)

You are from the uk. What was your process for getting a Missouri accent right?

Jack Holden (13:19)

Well, I don't know if it's completely right, but I try my best. Yeah, I listen to a lot of accents. There's this sort of international database called idea where you can go listen to accents from all across the world. So you can find quite hyper specific accents there online. Watch a lot of Friday Night Lights, one of my favorite TV shows. I don't think that's set in Missouri. Is it, is it Midwest?

Alison Stewart (13:43)

I'm not sure.

Jack Holden (13:44)

It's not even Midwest.

Alison Stewart (13:46)

Okay, it's Texas, right?

Jack Holden (13:48)

Oh, is it Texas? Okay. All right. Yeah, I think, I, I, I don't know. And as we were researching this show, there's actually a 60 Minutes documentary from the 80s soon after the events of this, of the, of the play. And you give me all of the characters, the central characters, and you hear their accents and it's, you know, it's not just Midwestern, it's Midwestern from the 70s and 80s. So there's a. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, it's a really specific kind of voice. So I kind of listened to that a lot and you know, and I had to find such variation between the characters. They're all from the same neck of the woods, but I, so I kind of vary their voices with different vocal qualities. So, you know, an older character, Bo, he has this kind of like raspy kind of voice, a bit like that. And then the preacher, preacher Warren, he has a kind of much more nasal kind of high pitched voice. He's actually a bit kind of based on Truman Capote, weirdly. I don't know why I did that, but, but you know, he grew up in Alabama. Yeah. So I, I, it was all about vocal qualities really.

Alison Stewart (14:54)

When did you know you had a talent for accents?

Jack Holden (14:58)

I knew I had a passion for accents when I, I was, I was, you know, I was, my huge inspirations growing up were Robin Williams and Jim Carrey and I, you know, I used a part of the show, I play this big lawyer, kind of big performative, showboating lawyer. And that's full liar liar territory. I'm borrowing straight from the Jim Carrey playbook. But yeah, I just, I used to watch their film and then kind of try and copy. Pull their faces and do their accents in the mirror and. Yeah, I just love doing all of that.

Alison Stewart (15:29)

I love the lawyer in the show because his voice sort of belies his ability.

Jack Holden (15:35)

Yes.

Alison Stewart (15:36)

Right. Or his shrewdness, you think? I think. Think the church lady a little bit.

Jack Holden (15:39)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Right. Yeah.

Alison Stewart (15:41)

How would you describe his voice?

Jack Holden (15:44)

Richard McFadden is kind of like. He's kind of. Yeah, he's a bit more. He's a bit more southern, so he's kind of got a bit more of that. But he's, but he's very performative, you know, and he's, he's very high up in my register. But yeah, he just, again, that was about different. So he's always. He's often in a scene with Ken who's, Who's, you know, right down there. And he's also also often in a scene with the judge. And the judge was kind of like I was kind of giving him that kind of voice. So then McFadden had to be super high and. And I just thought of him, he's much more sing songy. He's. When he, when he fights his battles in his cases, it's all a show. The razzle dazzle.

Alison Stewart (16:22)

What was the hardest character to figure out how to give a voice to?

Jack Holden (16:27)

I'd say maybe the hardest. Well, the hardest two were Trina.

Alison Stewart (16:32)

Yes.

Jack Holden (16:33)

Because she starts the play, it's a 14 year old girl and I play her and maybe Ida, the barkeep, because she's, she's a really important character.

Alison Stewart (16:45)

She's sort of the moral center.

Jack Holden (16:47)

She's the moral center. Yeah. So I kind of wanted her to be really rooted and grounded and quite close to me, but also distinct enough that people know, again, who she is. Yeah. So with Trina, I kind of, you know, borrowed a lot from Ruth from Ozark. Kind of gave her that kind of like, again, nasal, quite broad kind of accent.

Alison Stewart (17:11)

That's a tricky character to play because she's a 14 year old.

Jack Holden (17:14)

Yeah.

Alison Stewart (17:14)

She gets involved with Ken Rex, she marries Ken Rex. She obviously isn't of age. She can't decide for herself. But she does enjoy the power he has.

Jack Holden (17:25)

The Trina journey is really fascinating because, yes, as you say, she's underage. She's essentially groomed by Ken. We see her go from victim to sort of being radicalized by Ken and becoming The Bonnie to his Clyde or whatever. And they then kind of, yeah, become the McElroys. They become this kind of quite formidable duo. But when the terrible events unfold, by the end of the play, she returns to being the victim again. So her arc is kind of the most interesting in the show.

Alison Stewart (17:58)

I think it's interesting. Could you explain to our audience why Ken Rex was able to get away with how much he got away with? 21 crimes he got off on.

Jack Holden (18:09)

So there was a combination of things. Yeah, Skidmore was and is in the middle of nowhere really. And I think, you know, it was kind of a vacuum of, of law and order people. The cops didn't bother to go there. If they did, they'd turn up, you know, like way too late to kind of intervene. And that kind of bred a culture of kind of people just putting up with the, the misdemeanors of Ken. If they did try to say something, he would threaten them and then they would feel that they couldn't then speak out. And then it's the, yeah, also the, the kind of the cogs of the American justice system that McFadden, the lawyer, he plays to his own, to his advantage, really. He, he can get Ken out on technicalities and he can, he kind of gives Ken the bandwidth to intimidate witnesses so that cases fall apart. So, yeah, it was, it was a cocktail of things.

Alison Stewart (19:04)

What did you learn about the American justice system in the 70s?

Jack Holden (19:09)

Well, yeah, I guess in some senses, I don't know, it was probably in a slightly better state than it is now. But you know, still, as with any justice system, really, it's the same in the uk. It's, it's, it's completely open to interpretation. And there's a very distinct difference between the spirit of the law and the letter of the law. And justice is not a single definable thing. Justice is, you know, what you want it to be. And the people of Skidmore have this, you know, brainwave when they go, actually, we can, we can deliver our own justice. And they do.

Alison Stewart (19:52)

We're talking to Olivier Award winning actor Jack Holden and we're talking about his new one man show, Ken Rex, which tells the story of a killing in small town Missouri. It's running at the Lucille Lortel Theater. Music is a big part of our show. You want to give a shout out to John Patrick Elliot?

Jack Holden (20:10)

John is amazing. His music in the show is extraordinary. It sets the tone, it drives the whole thing and it, it actually makes the experience of going to the show Like a rock concert as well. It's loud and amazing and uplifting and, yeah, wild.

Alison Stewart (20:24)

And tell me about your co director and your. And your co writer and your director.

Jack Holden (20:28)

Yes. So Ed Stamboloughin and I, we were at drama school together a number of years ago and we had worked together. He directed me in plays before. In fact, the first show we worked on together was an Annie Baker play, the Aliens, which we love still to this day. And, yeah, we have this shared love of American drama which kind of led us to creating this show together and as well as writing it together, which was a long but really rewarding process. Ed's overall vision is incredible and he's orchestrated this, this beautiful and bright and loud and brash production which absolutely thrills audience members. I mean, it's. You know, it's one thing me doing it on stage, but afterwards when I meet the audience members, they are buzzing from the experience they've had.

Alison Stewart (21:16)

It's interesting. The sound design is remarkable what went into achieving that, because it's interesting. It just shifts from scene to scene to scene, but it also feels very seamless.

Jack Holden (21:32)

Yes. Every scene sort of has a different game and a different style and a different texture. We. We were very keen for it to feel like a true crime podcast, as in, you know, sometimes you have a bit of narration, then you have an interview, then you have a scene, a reconstruction, then you have a recording of a 911 call. And so Giles Thomas, our sound designer, did amazing work providing all those different textures. And that's done through my use of a lot of microphones on stage. But it's also then conveyed to the audience with a kind of surround sound setup. And the first time the audience hears something sort of surround sounds coming from behind them, it's often a voice. And it's really uncanny. You see a lot of audience members kind of checking over their shoulder because they think someone in the audience is joining in. But it's actually just this immersive sound design which nudges the audience into the world as the show goes on.

Alison Stewart (22:23)

You've been doing this show for several years now. What's been a big change that you've made?

Jack Holden (22:29)

Every time we come back to the show, it's a. It's a. An opportunity to tighten bits and, you know, elevate bits and change bits, tweak bits. And when we moved it from the UK to the us, we found there were a lot of things that we were over explaining to British audiences that we didn't need to do so much here.

Alison Stewart (22:44)

Oh, interesting.

Jack Holden (22:45)

So we cut a few bits and simplified a few bits, and there were some things that. Yeah, we. Our American associate director was like, oh, no, no, we'll get that. That's fine. You don't need to do that.

Alison Stewart (22:57)

Oh, that's interesting.

Jack Holden (22:57)

Yeah, yeah.

Alison Stewart (22:58)

Oh, wow. That's interesting. Let's talk about earlier this year. You hear the names Bryan Cranston, Sean Hayes, Tom Hiddleston, David Shiels, and then they say your name and then you win the Olivier Award. What went through your mind when they said your name?

Jack Holden (23:11)

I didn't believe it then. I felt it was very cheeky of me to have taken it from Bryan Cranston, who was like, you know, an acting hero of mine. And, yeah, I saw Sean Hayes do that Goodnight, Oscar, and perform the whole of Rhapsody in Blue night after night. And I was like, he deserves it just as much as I do. That's awesome. Yeah. And obviously, Tom Hiddleston and David Shields, like incredible British actors. So it was. I was. It was really. I was actually delirious with jet lag because we were doing rehearsals here.

Alison Stewart (23:44)

Oh, my gosh.

Jack Holden (23:45)

Then I flew back the night before, did the Oliviers one, then flew back here the next day to carry on with technical rehearsals. So the whole thing was a blur, a wonderful blur. Yeah. And I think it was a. It was a reward for us all being sort of independent theatre makers, building something from the ground up and the long journey that this show has been on. So it was. It was a real privilege and an honor.

Alison Stewart (24:13)

When people leave the theater, what do you hope they talk about?

Jack Holden (24:18)

I know a lot of people immediately get on the Internet and search about, you know, research the case, because it's fascinating. And there's also way more information out there than we are able to fit into the show. And a lot of people go, oh, that's what the bar looked like. Or, oh, that's what Trina looked like. Because obviously, you know, it's all being built in their imaginations during the show. So they have this kind of correction period where they go, oh, it's actually like this. And then they find out more of the details, the darker details often. So that's really interesting. But I also hope they sit with this difficult question of, if I were there, if I were one of the people in Skidmore, would I have been in the parking lot that day? Would I have been involved in what the people did?

Alison Stewart (25:02)

I didn't look up the town until this. Until I knew we were gonna have you on the show. I really. I was on the latter part. Like, what would have happened if I made this count of 245 people and no one's come forward for 30 years?

Jack Holden (25:14)

Yeah, they took the secret to their grave.

Alison Stewart (25:16)

It's amazing when you think about it, amazing in various different ways.

Jack Holden (25:19)

Yeah. Incredibly disciplined of them all to. To do it.

Alison Stewart (25:22)

The name of the show is Ken Rex. It's playing at the Lucille Lortel Theater. We've been speaking with Jack Holden. Thank you for making the time.

Jack Holden (25:30)

Thank you so much for having me.

Alison Stewart (25:32)

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