Truman Capote Turns 100

Summary

All Of It Podcast Summary: "Truman Capote Turns 100"

Episode Release Date: December 4, 2024
Host: Alison Stewart
Guests: Jay McInerney and John Burnham Schwartz
Duration: Approximately 31 minutes

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1. Introduction to Truman Capote's Centennial

The episode opens with Alison Stewart celebrating the centennial anniversary of Truman Capote, a towering figure in 20th-century literature known for his groundbreaking works in both fiction and nonfiction. Capote, born in 1924, remains a complex icon—renowned for his literary genius and infamous for his tumultuous personal life.

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2. Personal Connections and Early Impressions

John Burnham Schwartz shares his unique personal connection with Capote, revealing, “[02:32] ... my father was his lawyer and friend and eventually founded the Capote Trust in 1994. And so I grew up with Truman in our house all the time.” He describes Capote as “definitely the sadder Truman, often drunk” but also “incredibly charming” during moments of sobriety.

Alison Stewart recounts her own encounter with Capote towards the end of his life: “[03:44] ... he was drunk, and he seemed to take quite a shine to me because he dragged me into George's office and closed the door and proceeded to give me some cocaine while he tried to feel me up.” This meeting left Sterling with a complex image of Capote, juxtaposing his public brilliance with personal struggles.

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3. Capote's Literary Mastery and New York Representation

The discussion delves into Capote's unparalleled ability to capture the essence of New York City in his writing. Alison praises his descriptive prowess: “[05:50] ... his descriptions were just perfect. His descriptions of people, but also of the landscape, of the apartment building, of the neighborhood.” This mastery is exemplified in works like Breakfast at Tiffany's and In Cold Blood, where Capote's vivid imagery immerses readers in the settings and characters.

John Burnham Schwartz adds depth by highlighting Capote's nuanced portrayal of characters and places, stating, “[06:43] ... layers of both a person and a place, all the different layers, the sort of shiny surface and the effort that would go into that.”

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4. "Breakfast at Tiffany's" and Cultural Impact

The conversation shifts to Breakfast at Tiffany's, with Jay McInerney asking about its enduring relevance. Alison emphasizes the book's timeless quality: “[11:23] ... it's the archetypal New York story—provincial comes to New York to completely reinvent themselves.” The character Holly Golightly is lauded as “a wonderful character” who embodies the spirit of New York's diverse inhabitants.

John Burnham Schwartz discusses the story’s layers, noting, “[10:51] ... it's an incredibly complicated, wonderful, socially rich tapestry.” He also points out the flaws in the film adaptation, particularly the portrayal of Mr. Yunioshi, criticizing Mickey Rooney’s casting as “totally not okay” ([09:51]).

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5. "In Cold Blood" and the Birth of Literary Nonfiction

Alison Stewart introduces In Cold Blood, highlighting its significance as a pioneering work in literary nonfiction. A clip from an archival recording ([08:02]) features Capote himself, bringing authenticity to the discussion.

John Burnham Schwartz elaborates on the book’s impact: “[18:24] ... it's a book that... treats the murderers as subjects and treats them as human beings in the sense of their... lives were like.” He underscores the ethical and stylistic innovations Capote introduced, which have influenced generations of writers.

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6. The Twilight of Capote’s Legacy: "Answered Prayers"

The episode addresses the controversial fallout from Capote's Answered Prayers, a collection that seemingly betrayed his close friends, known as "The Swans." Jay McInerney questions whether Capote crossed ethical lines in his quest for content, to which John Burnham Schwartz responds, “[27:32] I do think he crossed the line...” attributing this to Capote’s deteriorating personal state and his blurred lines between fiction and reality.

Alison Stewart reflects on the personal toll, stating, “[28:53] ... these stories were pretty much gossip typed out and published by Esquire,” highlighting the damaged relationships and the complexity of Capote's intentions versus his actions.

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7. The Capote Trust and Supporting Future Writers

John Burnham Schwartz discusses the establishment and impact of the Capote Trust, founded by his father and stepmother, Louise and Alan Schwartz: “[14:24] ... the Capote Trust has given us... Truman Capote Fellowships.” This trust plays a crucial role in supporting emerging writers through scholarships and prizes, honoring Capote’s legacy by fostering new literary talents.

He adds, “[15:45] ... there are many different kinds of institutions and writers. And so that's very cool,” emphasizing the trust's broad and inclusive support system.

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8. Listener Engagement: Favorite Capote Works

Listener calls enrich the discussion with personal reflections on Capote's works. Judy from Howell, New Jersey shares her love for A Christmas Memory: “[23:58] ... it's a warm, beautiful story. And I read it every Christmas.” Alison echoes this sentiment, stating, “[24:50] ... it's a very beautiful story.”

John Burnham Schwartz recommends Miriam, a prize-winning short story, and advises listeners to explore the Collected Stories for a comprehensive understanding of Capote's craft.

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9. Conclusion: The Duality of Capote's Legacy

The episode concludes with reflections on Capote's enduring yet complicated legacy. John Burnham Schwartz summarizes, “[29:55] ... he will forever be known as both these things and it... muddies his literary legacy.” This duality underscores the lasting impact of Capote’s literary achievements alongside the controversies that shadow his personal life.

Alison Stewart encapsulates the essence of Capote’s enduring relevance: “[30:35] ... if there was more, he would have made sure that it was preserved and eventually published.” This highlights the ongoing fascination and debate surrounding Capote’s contributions to literature and culture.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• John Burnham Schwartz on his personal experience with Capote: “[02:32] ... my father was his lawyer and friend... it was definitely the sadder Truman, often drunk.”

• Alison Stewart recounting her encounter: “[03:40] ... he was drunk... gave me some cocaine while he tried to feel me up.”

• Alison Stewart on Capote's descriptive prowess: “[05:50] ... his descriptions were just perfect. His descriptions of people, but also of the landscape...”

• John Burnham Schwartz on In Cold Blood: “[18:24] ... treats the murderers as subjects and treats them as human beings...”

• John Burnham Schwartz on Answered Prayers: “[27:32] I do think he crossed the line...”

• John Burnham Schwartz on the Capote Trust: “[14:24] ... the Capote Trust has given us... Truman Capote Fellowships.”

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Final Thoughts

This episode of All Of It provides a comprehensive exploration of Truman Capote's multifaceted legacy. Through personal anecdotes, literary analysis, and insightful discussions, Alison Stewart, Jay McInerney, and John Burnham Schwartz paint a vivid portrait of a writer whose brilliance is interwoven with personal struggles and controversies. The conversation not only celebrates Capote’s literary milestones but also critically examines the complexities that define his enduring influence on American culture and literature.

Transcript

[Alison Stewart]

Listener supported WNYC Studios.

[Jay McInerney]

This is all of IT on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. It's Wednesday, so we're in the middle of a book week here on all of it. Earlier this week, we talked about NPR's list of the best books of 2024. Tomorrow we'll hear from author Percival Everett about his great James, which just won the National Book Award. And on Friday, we'll speak with author Samantha Harvey, whose book Orbital just won the booker. And of course, tonight is our get lit with all of it book club event at the NYPL with Taffy Broadassar Achner, author of Long Island Compromise and special guest musical Suzanne Vega. It's sold out, but you can sign up for the live [e-mail] get lit. Now. We'll keep this book week going with a conversation about one of the 20th century's most influential writers. This year marks the 100th anniversary of the book of the birth of the author of In Cold Blood, which broke ground in the world of literary nonfiction, a bon vivant who embedded himself with our crowd of New York society and a man whose unmistakable voice and quick wit were hard to match. I'm talking, of course, about Truman Capote. Capote was born in 1924 New Orleans and raised in Alabama, New York and Connecticut. Capote was a writer and a social clim. He was gay at a time when it was risky for queer people to be themselves in public. He also struggled with addiction, dying just shy of his 60th birthday as the result of longtime abuse of drugs and alcohol. Tomorrow night, the 92nd Street Y will honor Capote, who debuted In Cold Blood on stage at the Y in 1964. The event will feature actors Molly Ringwald and Griffin Dunn and a conversation about Capote's legacy with author Sloan Crossley and my next guest, author Jay McInerney. Hi, Jay.

[Alison Stewart]

Hi.

[Jay McInerney]

And author John Burnham Schwartz. Nice to see you.

[John Burnham Schwartz]

See you.

[Jay McInerney]

Hey, listeners, we want to get you in on this conversation. What is your favorite work by Truman Capot? And why could a novel or a short story or maybe you met Truman Capote once or you knew him. We want to hear your Truman Capote stories. Our Phone number is 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. You can call in and join us on air or you can text to that number. John, what was your first exposure with Capote?

[John Burnham Schwartz]

Mine was a little unusual, I would say, in that my father was his lawyer and friend and eventually founded the capote trust in 1994. And so I grew up with Truman in our house all the time. It was not the better Truman, I would say. It was definitely the sadder Truman, often drunk.

[Alison Stewart]

I met that guy.

[John Burnham Schwartz]

Yeah, you met that guy. So it was the Truman I think people have seen, certainly on television and other places. But at the same time, you know, he was a fixture in our house, and my parents were great friends with him. And my father being his lawyer was a complicated business. You know, there were a lot of rehab visits and many different legal issues. And so it was all sort of wrapped in. And it became both, at times, an inspiration, but also definitely a warning letter. I mean, I ended up becoming a writer, but it was something to see about a man destroying himself essentially, over the last years. But he could be incredibly charming, too.

[Jay McInerney]

Jay, you've spoken about the time you met Truman Capote. What was he like when you met him?

[Alison Stewart]

Well, unfortunately, I met him at the very end of his life, and I met him at George Plimpton's house, as one does on East 72nd Street. Well, Plimpton's house was the kind of the literary center of New York city for about 25 years. And George moved back from Paris in the 50s, where a lot of expatriate writers had gathered, and he kind of started this salon, and he kind of kept the party of Paris going in New York City. And Truman, I think, was a frequent guest. I certainly met a lot of prominent writers there. But at the very end of his Life, in early 1984, I met Truman, and he was. He was drunk, and he seemed to take quite a shine to me because he dragged me into George's office and closed the door and proceeded to give me some cocaine while he tried to feel me up. And unfortunately, he told me that, you know, he had discovered the sort of the fountain of youth, and it was cocaine. And I thought, you know, I know something about cocaine, and it's not the fountain of you.

[John Burnham Schwartz]

Then I think he died six months.

[Alison Stewart]

Later, and he died about six months later. But. But, you know, I had already seen him on the occasional talk show, and he was. Although in the early days, you know, in the 50s, and he was certainly a dazzling talk show guest, which is why. Which is why he was so often on shows like Dick Cavett toward the end, he was just not even trying to mask his deterioration. And so I think I started with the bad Truman. But on the other hand, I was deeply impressed by books like Breakfast at Tiffany's and In Cold Blood, although two more different Books.

[Jay McInerney]

I can't imagine when you're thinking about someone trying to capture New York at a particular time with their writing. And that's something you did as well. What do you admire about Capote and the way he captured the city in his work?

[Alison Stewart]

Well, I just, you know, I have a very vivid sense of sort of the Upper east side and as it was in the. I mean, the book is actually set in the 40s, although Truman at one point makes the mistake of saying that Holly Go lightly bought some furniture from the estate of William Randolph Hearst, who died in 1951, which is. He was. He got a little confused sometimes between the period he was writing the book and the period it was alleged to be set. But I don't know, I just feel almost as if I'm there. His descriptions were. His descriptions were just perfect. His descriptions of people, but also of the landscape, of the apartment building, of the neighborhood. That really was one of the great New York books, I think.

[John Burnham Schwartz]

I think you had a way of capturing in prose the layers of both a person and a place, all the different layers, the sort of shiny surface and the effort that would go into that. The style of something and also underneath some of the things that are hidden, some of the sadder or more poignant elements. And I think Holly Golightly remains outside of our idea of Audrey Hepburn in the movie, remains such an iconic character. Because when you go back and read the book, you see all of that. You see this small town, you know, unhappy abandoned girl who has recreated herself, who's very much like Truman, who came from Alabama to the north when he was 11. And it was sort of riven between these two sides of the outsider and the would be insider.

[Alison Stewart]

You know, people talk about Carol Marcus or Uno O'Neill being possible models for Holly Golightly, but. But I think John is right that Truman himself was as much the model for Holly as anybody, because he was completely self created. A Southerner who. Who wanted desperately to be a New Yorker and became one of the archetypal New Yorkers.

[Jay McInerney]

We actually have a bit of audio from the 92nd Street Archives. This is Truman Capote reading from Breakfast at Tiffany's. This is from April 7, 1963, with a great little introd.

[Alison Stewart]

Wow. Well, the time of the setting. The time of this story is during 1943, during the war. And the narrator of the story has.

[John Burnham Schwartz]

Just moved into a house and living above him is a Japanese Mr. Yunioshi. And that's all you need to know at this point.

[Alison Stewart]

I've got the Most terrifying man downstairs.

[John Burnham Schwartz]

She said, stepping off the fire escape into the room. I mean, he's sweet when he isn't drunk, but let him start lapping up the vino and. Oh, God, Cal. Beast.

[Alison Stewart]

If there's one thing I loathe, it's men who bite.

[John Burnham Schwartz]

She loosened a gray flannel robe off her shoulder to show me evidence of what happens if a man bites. The robe was all she was wearing. I'm sorry if I frightened you, but when the beast got so tiresome, I just went out the window.

[Alison Stewart]

I think he thinks I'm in the bathroom.

[John Burnham Schwartz]

Not that I give a damn what he thinks. The hell with him. He'll get tired. He'll go to sleep. My God, he should. Eight martinis before dinner and enough wine to wash an elephant.

[Jay McInerney]

If you've never read the original novella, why is it worth picking up?

[John Burnham Schwartz]

So I'm just. I need to say, Jay and I are sitting here laughing for, I think, a couple of reasons. One is just the voice. The voice is just believable.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah, well, I mean, you heard it a lot.

[John Burnham Schwartz]

I did, and it was almost a.

[Alison Stewart]

Surprise for me hearing it again.

[Jay McInerney]

He also had a really deep laugh, like a manly laugh at the end of it.

[John Burnham Schwartz]

Again, there's various sides of Truman, but the other thing we were laughing was the man upstairs. Mr. Suni. Yoshi Suniyoshi was played horribly by Mickey Rooney.

[Alison Stewart]

Mickey Rooney with buck teeth.

[John Burnham Schwartz]

Just totally not okay.

[Jay McInerney]

Not okay.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah. It would not fly today.

[John Burnham Schwartz]

But, I mean, I still think, you know, in the city that now is sort of like a country club to live in, it's its own expensive fortress. But there are still people coming here to completely recreate themselves. And, you know, the idea of living in this building, even a small one like that, where your neighbors are a variety of people sort of like you. I mean, you know, he himself, the narrator is in the novel, his sexuality is not clear. And it appears, the intimation is that he's something of, as Truman said, an American gay show. He's much like Holly Golightly.

[Alison Stewart]

Well, he's. Yeah, he's a gigolo.

[John Burnham Schwartz]

Yeah, basically. And the movie, all of that was sort of, you know, softened up in the movie, but.

[Alison Stewart]

George Peppard.

[John Burnham Schwartz]

George Peppard. And so. But it makes for an incredibly. Underneath the wonderful comedy and the music of her exuberance, if you will, it makes for a really complicated, wonderful, socially rich tapestry. And the prose is just. I mean, the dialogue is great, too. It's just great.

[Alison Stewart]

But I think it is the archetypal New York story provincial comes to New York to completely reinvent themselves and it's. And Holly is a wonderful character. I mean, we learned just enough about her to be utterly intrigued with that. I mean, there is one point when her background I think is maybe a little bit over described, but she's just a great character. And in some ways people like this from small town Texas and Louisiana are become the archetypal New Yorkers as she certainly is.

[Jay McInerney]

Well, so many people became familiar with Truman Capote from his portrayal on To Kill a Mockingbird. As Dill Harris, Harper Lee wrote about him. This little kid who comes over and wants to be in everything. What do we learn about him from Dill?

[John Burnham Schwartz]

So I mean, it is true that when he was living in Monroeville, Alabama and his neighbor with his mother's relatives, all of them female, and his neighbor and friend was Harper Lee and he would go around with a dictionary from the time he was five, he taught himself to read and write at an incredibly early age. And he was literally writing and he wrote, produced a story, I think it was called Mrs. Busy Buddy or something like that. And it was literally a gossipy account of the sort of crazy stuff that the neighbors were getting up to. And they also, her father was a trial lawyer and they would go to trials sometimes to just pass the time. And so there are, I mean, I do think that, I think just the inquisitiveness. His nickname when he was young was Bulldog. I was actually bitten by his Bulldog Maggie once when I was a kid, just throwing that in there. So. But I, you know, I think there was a toughness and a pursuit and a sort of single mindedness even as there was this curiosity and willing to talk to everybody, high or low.

[Jay McInerney]

Yeah, yeah, let's take a call. Ellen is calling in from the Bronx. Hi Ellen, thanks for calling all of it.

[John Burnham Schwartz]

Thank you for taking my call. We are holding a 100th birthday party for Truman tomorrow night at Brooklyn College. And I want to say something about the regenerate Truman Capote. He was very interested in supporting young writers. And through the Truman Capote Trust as administered by Louise and Alan Schwartz, we have become at Brooklyn, our MFA program, the recipients of Truman Capote Fellowships. And we have invited all the past and present Truman Capote fellowships and Louise Schwartz. And we will be celebrating, as I said, tomorrow night. And we are very, very grateful for the support that the Capote Trust has given us from 2012 through the present.

[Jay McInerney]

Thanks for calling, Ellen.

[John Burnham Schwartz]

Yeah, I mean, just to jump in because Louise Schwartz is my stepmother And Alan Schwartz, who founded the Capote Trust, who's my dad. I thank you so much for calling. I think it's fantastic. They've been giving out so many scholarships. This was in Truman's will. It was what he wanted. And there's a prize that they give every year too for literary criticism. It's called the Newton Arvin Prize. And Newton Arvin was probably Truman's first real lover. He was a professor at Smith College and he was eventually ousted from his career for his homosexuality. And so he wanted this prize in literary criticism. Newton Arvin was a, was a wonderful literary critic. And so all of these creative writing and literary criticism, you know, grants and prizes have been given and it's great to think that they're gathering here while before the year is out.

[Alison Stewart]

I feel like the. His royalties must be significant because those books are very much.

[John Burnham Schwartz]

It's been alive. I mean, I have to say I think my parents have done an incredible job with the trust and it is significant. They've really been able to give prizes all around the country to many, many different kinds of institutions and writers. And so that's very cool. Yeah.

[Jay McInerney]

My guests are author Jay McInerney and John Burnham Schwartz. We are discussing the life and legacy of Truman Capote, who would have turned 100 this year. Jay and John will be guests at the 92nd Street Y. It's an event honoring Capote tomorrow night at 8pm we want to know what's your favorite work by Truman Capote and why? Could be a novel, could be a short story. Or maybe you met Truman Capote once. Our phone number is 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. After the break, we'll talk in cold Blood. WNYC Studios is supported by GiveWell. When you make a big purchase, say.

[John Burnham Schwartz]

A car or a new mattress, how do you make sure that you're making the right choice? GiveWell provides an independent resource for a different kind of purchase a donation. Over 100,000 donors have used GiveWell to donate. First time using GiveWell. When you go to givewell.org and pick podcast and enter WNYC at checkout, you can have your donation matched up to $100 before the end of the year or as long as matching funds last.

[Jay McInerney]

Hey everyone. Join me, Megan Reinks and me, Melissa Demontz for Don't Blame me But Am I Wrong? Each week we deliver four fun filled shows and Don't Blame Me. We tackle our listeners dilemmas with hilariously honest advice. Then we have But Am I Wrong? Which is for the listeners that didn't take our advice. Plus, we share our hot takes on current events. Then tune in to see you next Tuesday for our listener poll results from.

[John Burnham Schwartz]

But Am I Wrong?

[Jay McInerney]

And finally, wrap up your week with Fisting Friday, where we catch up and.

[John Burnham Schwartz]

Talk all things pop culture.

[Jay McInerney]

Listen to don't blame Me, But Am I Wrong? On Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday. You are listening to all of it on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. My guests in studio are Jay McInerney and John Burnham Schwartz. We are discussing the life and legacy of Truman Capote, who would have turned 100 this year. Jay and John will be guests at the 92nd Street Y honoring Truman Capote tomorrow night at 8pm I got this great line. Someone texted in my favorite Truman line from In Cold when Perry says, or was it Dick? It says, we're going to blow hair all over those walls about the Clutters. Read that in high school almost 40 years ago and think about it pretty much every time I see blood, hair or walls. When you're thinking about In Cold Blood, it's sort of a new nonfiction novel about the murder of family in Kansas. Why do you think this has remained a classic? John?

[John Burnham Schwartz]

I mean, I think first of all, it's, it's just an extraordinary story and it's written from first to last with the intention of making great art. And Truman used to talk about his relationship with Perry Smith, who is, I think, unquestionably the most fascinating character in the book, who was one of the murderers and was somewhat he was both handsome and deformed. He was short. He was an outsider. He was probably gay. He was all of these different things. And the relationship, though Truman, never appears in the book, the relationship between author and subject is quite extraordinary. And so I think it's a book that I know somebody who's taught that book in prisons, and one of the reasons they've taught it in prison is because it's one of the first books to ever treat the murderers as subjects and treat them as human beings in the sense of their of what led, you know, what their lives were like, what their thoughts were like. And he spent four or five years writing two letters a week back and forth with Dick Hickok and Perry Smith. And then he had to wait, famously, after the book was done in order to fully finish the book for them to be executed. And so I think all of that attention, beyond the murder itself Creates something that's indelible and that does not date.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah. And he. He essentially created a genre, you know, which others. Which others imitated, including his sometime friend Norman Mailer, famously. But I read it three times, I guess, and it doesn't feel dated in any way, and it doesn't seem to get old. And I think what John said about Perry is very true, that Truman really did identify with Perry Smith. I mean, there's certainly the rumor out there that they were lovers and that they were indulged in this by the prison staff. But regardless, you know, his ability to treat the murderers as human beings, even as he portrays. As that line from. From our caller suggests, that treats, you know, the crime as a horrific crime and doesn't flinch in any way from describing the horror of it. He is still able to treat the murderers with sympathy and understanding. And that's one of the great achievements of the book. I still find it amazing that the book is, in many ways, is so unpredictable from Truman Capote. You know, I mean, here was a guy. Here was a sort of almost Southern gothic writer who wrote fairly precious novellas, who suddenly goes to Kansas. And, you know, I mean, he could have just made a New Yorker article. Article out of it.

[Jay McInerney]

He was trying to decide the New Yorker gave him the assignment. He want to do that or something else like. Yeah, and more Truman Capote. Ish.

[Alison Stewart]

But. But then he. Then he was it John.

[John Burnham Schwartz]

Four or five years ago, he himself said that he saw that he sort of had two different careers. There was basically 1948-58, which is when. 1948 is when other Voices, Other Rooms. He arrives on the scene with this first novel that's a bestseller on the Times list. And he becomes a sensation. And then 1958 is breakfast at Tiffany's. And he set about pairing his style. And he was also, as Jay suggested. I mean, he had. He saw journalism as this untapped resource literary mode that he felt could be an extraordinary vehicle. And if you go back earlier in the 50s, 1956, in the New Yorker, he does a series of nonfiction pieces. It ends up being published as a book called the Muses Are Heard. It's an incredible book, actually. And it's. He goes with this black American theater troupe to the Soviet Union. First theatrical exchange between these two countries ever. And they're doing a production of Porgy and Bess throughout the Soviet Union. And Truman details this whole trip. It's an incredible book. And he said he was preparing himself to try and find a bigger topic and make the big swing. And that's. Finally, he tried two or three different things that didn't work out. And then, you know, famously, he sees this little news item in the Times about this murder in Kansas. And he and Harper Lee, who had just finished but not yet published To Kill a Mockingbird, go on down to Kansas, to western Kansas.

[Jay McInerney]

Let's take a call. This is Judy calling in from Howell, New Jersey. Hi, Judy. Thank you so much for calling all of it.

[John Burnham Schwartz]

Hi, thank you for taking my call. My favorite book by Truman Capote is little book called A Christmas Memory.

[Alison Stewart]

I was going to mention that one. Good.

[Jay McInerney]

Tell us why.

[John Burnham Schwartz]

It's a lovely little book. It's about him when he was living as a child with his aunts. And one aunt in particular was mentally challenged. And they had quite a friendship. And at Christmas time, they decided they would make 30 fruitcakes. And so they had to go all around the neighborhood. And it's about the people they met and getting the ingredients. And it's just a warm, beautiful story. And I read it every Christmas.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah, I made it a tradition in our household that I read it every Christmas for seven or eight years with my parents and my brothers. And it's a very beautiful story.

[Jay McInerney]

What short story would you tell people to read, John?

[John Burnham Schwartz]

I mean, that's one of them. There's a story, Miriam, which won the Mademoiselle Prize in 1946, when he was. I mean, that's what actually got the attention of Bennett Cerf, which led to his contract for Other Voices, Other Rooms. He was so young, but he focused so much attention on the short stories in those early years. He was publishing them all over. Miriam's great story. What trying to think of some others. You can get the Collected Stories, which I really recommend, and just sort of pick your way through them. And he had a theory that basically every story has its natural form for what it is. And what he would do when he finished the story was go back and sort of try and imagine if there was any other way of telling it. And if he couldn't find another way of telling it, then he felt that he had arrived at the right way. And you can see the prose just taking shape and just working on it all the way. And I think it's some of his best work in many ways.

[Alison Stewart]

And I think he was truly a great prose stylist. And that was what, as an aspiring writer, inspired me, was reading his sentences and, you know, appreciating the rhythm of them and appreciating the sort of perfection of Expression. I mean, by the time. Certainly by the time of Breakfast at Tiffany's, he had. He had achieved a really a perfect style. The early books are a little bit baroque, I guess.

[John Burnham Schwartz]

Yes, yes. A little Gothic. Southern Gothic, Baroque, whatever.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah, but. But he was a great stylist. As, again, Norman Mailer.

[John Burnham Schwartz]

He said he's the most perfect writer of our generation. Although when you think about Norman, you have to assume that maybe there was a bit of an edge to the word perfect, but not entirely a compliment.

[Jay McInerney]

The most recent sort of, I don't know, example of Truman Capote is Feud. Right. Capote versus The Swans. Molly Ringwald's gonna be at this event tomorrow at the 92nd Street Y. And it's about Truman's betrayal of his friends in r. In New York society. These women. He was. God, it was so thinly veiled. His writing about them was so thinly veiled. And I think at one point he even said, like, I'm a writer. That's what people should expect from me. I'm looking for content. Well, he didn't say content, but you know what I mean, as writers yourselves. Do you think he crossed the line?

[John Burnham Schwartz]

I do think he crossed the line, and I think he crossed the line by. By running out of. He. I think he. The connection between himself and his. Imagine, his imagination basically broke down through a series of assaults. Chemical, you know, alcoholic. And his relationship with the society around him. I think when you are an outsider, and if you look back at all of his stories early on in those first 15 years, they're really about outsiders of different kinds. The implication may be they're queer or they're, you know, in terms of class or whatever it is, but he identified with the outsiders. And then there's this anger that builds. And I think he really. I don't think he knew where the line was at the end. He started talking about Answered Prayers, which is what these stories became back in 1958. And he saw it as this Proustian endeavor that he was going to. It was going to be his great masterwork. But he. I think he lost sight of where the writer was. He had always been very careful to be an objective observer, and I think he lost sight of that. And he no longer had a sense of where he stood as the author or the person.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah, well, certainly as a friend, he crossed a line on most of these stories. And by the way, there are four of these stories that basically shattered his relations with various Swans, various friends of his people to whom he had been a confidant. And an intimate for many, many years. And people who assumed that as his friends, they would be spared from, to some extent, from his wit.

[Jay McInerney]

Wicked wit.

[Alison Stewart]

His wicked wit, yeah. And, you know, I think, as John alluded to, these stories were not reimagined much in any way. They were pretty much gossip typed out and published by Esquire.

[John Burnham Schwartz]

I would say only that I think the actors in the show were fantastic. I think the show to some degree reenacts how Jay just described Truman's fault in Answered Prayers because it so doubles down on that only that particular side of him. That said, he will forever be known as both these things and it. It does on the one hand, make him still one of the best, the most famous writers of the second half of the 20th century. And at the same time, it muddies his literary legacy. And that's why we're here in a way.

[Alison Stewart]

And you know, John and I were talking earlier about whether Answered Prayers exists in any form other than these four short stories that were allegedly part of it. And I think we both feel like if there was more, he would have made sure that it was preserved and eventually published.

[Jay McInerney]

You can hear more about Truman Capote tomorrow night at the 92nd Street Y. The event is starting at 8pm My guests have been Jay McInerney and John Burnham Schwartz. Thank you so much for coming to the studio.

[John Burnham Schwartz]

Thanks for having us. Once upon a time, Amazon Music met.

[Alison Stewart]

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[John Burnham Schwartz]

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[Alison Stewart]

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[John Burnham Schwartz]

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[Alison Stewart]

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[John Burnham Schwartz]

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[Jay McInerney]

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[Alison Stewart]

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[John Burnham Schwartz]

Now to start listening terms apply. This is Ira Flatow, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, the science Friday team has been reporting high quality SC science and technology news, making science fun for curious people by covering everything from the outer reaches of space to the rapidly changing world of AI to the tiniest microbes in our bodies. Audiences trust our show because they know we're driven by a mission to inform and serve listeners first and foremost with important news they won't get anywhere else. And our sponsors benefit from that halo effect. For more information on becoming a sponsor, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.