Alison Stewart (3:12)

That's the, that's the role I'm in. I'm like, ooh, it's popcorn on my couch. I could be doing something else, but I'm watching this.

Katherine Van Arendonk (3:18)

Yeah. And look, I. That's a, that's everyone's own personal. Everyone gets to decide that part for themselves. Right?

Alison Stewart (3:26)

Yeah. So for some people, their jam is. Is reality TV like Real Housewives, Trader Survivor, which is airing its 50th season currently. Why might shows like this provide a comforting experience for people looking for something just to put on their tv?

Katherine Van Arendonk (3:43)

Yeah, I think reality television, one of the really interesting things about it for me in the last several years is that streaming series, which are so much of what we all watch now, streaming dramas, their seasons have gotten shorter and, and they come out less frequently. It used to be the case that a television show would be 20 or more episodes and you would know that it would come out again every single year. And so you could check in with your, with your favorite characters and they would be there for you and you have these long, long relationships with them. And it's very hard to find that kind of thing in scripted television. Now the pit is this deliberate throwback to that kind of timing and scripting. But like anywhere else outside of network television. And look, our Elbeth viewers out there, I support you. I love you. The Elbeth people. I am one of you. But, but like Bridgerton, part of the challenge of it is that it only comes out maybe every 18 months and then you only get four episodes and, and then it's going to be another four in a month. Reality television is there for you. It is always there. They are making two seasons of Love is Blind a year. Those seasons have 12 or 13 episodes. Survivor is still on season schedule. Something like the Traders is coming out at a more regular clip. And so I, I think there's something really powerful to knowing that you get to turn on your stories and they're still going to be there for you with new things to watch without having these long, long gaps.

Caller 2 / Host Assistant (5:21)

This says we getting a lot of text. Shetland on Brickbox, it says. Lately I've been binge watching the Netflix show Hell on Wheels starring Anson Mount. It's the most historical drama about the westward expansion of post Civil War and the Atlantic railroad. That's from Stephen Lynbrook, Deadlock. Watch it two times already. We'll watch it again. Crossing my season my fingers for season two. This says the West Wing was a really wonderful show, but also interesting to know how world problems are exactly the same as they were back when the show was made. That's interesting. Got another vote for the West Wing as a show to watch. I wanted to follow up on Bridgerton. You mentioned Bridgerton. Yeah, I think we're. Are we in the fourth season of Bridgerton?

Katherine Van Arendonk (6:05)

This is season four. Yes.

Caller 2 / Host Assistant (6:06)

And it's about the fourth boy. Not the same. No, he's second boy, actually. Benedict. It comes out in two parts. The first season comes out in four parts. And then we have to wait till February 26th for the second part of this season. What's the reason for the show splitting itself in two?

Katherine Van Arendonk (6:27)

This is a strategy Netflix has been playing with more and more over the last couple of years. And I think it's. It's happening for a few reasons. You'll notice that Love is Blind now works something like this as well. Well, they'll give you several episodes on one Wednesday, and then the next Wednesday you're going to get three more. They are attempting to split the difference between the all in one season binge that Netflix really became known for and that longer extended engagement that I think there's a lot of reason to believe has, has value. If you give us all of Bridgerton in one day, people will watch all in one weekend. And the length of that sort of conversation window, the period when it is in people's brains is very intense and very, very short. And so it is this. It is this effort to try to keep people's minds focused, to. To not lose that, that sense of cultural relevancy quite so quickly. I really understand why they're trying to do it. The issue is that I think, um, they have now trained audiences to expect a full season binge. And so there is this sense of outrage that there might not have been if they just did one a week, which something like Apple TV is really embraced as the model that they're going for. And HBO kind of never left that model. And then the other Thing is that they will. They will deliberately choose these big cliffhangery moments. If you have seen the first four episodes of Bridgerton, you know that they purposely picked the most infuriating place to.

Alison Stewart (8:02)

End on completely, I will say.

Katherine Van Arendonk (8:06)

And so, yes, so then they on purpose make you just absolutely enraged that you do not have the rest of the season. And so no wonder people are, like, storming online and being like, how dare you do this to us?

Alison Stewart (8:22)

I want to ask you about Bridgerton between Benedict and Sophie, who is a maid. Allegedly, she was the child of a more noble man. Out of all the pairings that we've seen so far, how is their relationship different than the pairings that we have seen on Bridgerton so far?

Katherine Van Arendonk (8:44)

Yeah, I have to say, I really have enjoyed this season of Bridgerton. And the reason, one of the reasons is that they are playing with these ideas of class differences in a way that feels to me much more embedded in the world that they have built than the previous season's attempt to do stories about racial differences, which have always felt like something that they are sort of teasing but uncomfortable with. Don't really know how to deal with. It's like a completely colorblind society. But then it's like, no, no, it still matters, but, no, it doesn't. And it just is this very incoherent sense of where the stakes are for Benedict and Sophie. They are much more direct about this being a significant, meaningful barrier between them, that he is the son of a nobleman and she does not have any access to the kind of wealth, wealth and privilege that he has. She is a maid, she works. She is perpetually rolling her eyes at him because he cannot do anything like light a fire. And it's. The stakes of why they cannot be together seem to actually matter in a way that I think this show has struggled with in the past. I have to say, the other thing about this season that I really want to shout out is that Giren Ha plays Sophie. She's had a couple roles before, but she's a relative newcomer, and I think she's truly so great in this season. It's one of those performances that you watch and you think, like, oh, oh, this person will have it. They need to have a long and great career because they're so good.

Caller 2 / Host Assistant (10:25)

Let's talk to Craig from Morganville. Hey, Craig, thanks for calling all of it. What are you watching?

Caller 1 (10:31)

Watching the Beauty on fx. It's based on a comic book, and I like it that they only do it once a week. But here's the thing when they're not doing the action scenes, when it's just the agents or whoever's involved on public streets, it's empty. And it's kind of like a throwback to the avengers of the 60s, which is pretty surreal and makes it really cool. It's a great show.

Caller 2 / Host Assistant (10:54)

I'm with you. I'm pro beauty. This says I watched 30 Rock in its entirety five times and have never told anyone that I love you and support you.

Katherine Van Arendonk (11:06)

You should try. You should check out this new NBC show called the Fall and Rise of Reggie Dinkins, which stars Tracy Morgan, is made by the 30 Rock creative team. Also stars Daniel Radcliffe, who makes some of the most interesting career choices. Choices I think in Hollywood and is so surreally like 30 Rock that it kind of feels like an out of body experience watching it.

Caller 2 / Host Assistant (11:28)

This says I'm in my 40s and my guilty TV pleasure is watching reruns of Henry Danger, a decade old sitcom on Nickelodeon. Even when my kid isn't around. Even when my kid isn't around. It's hysterical and very clever and I laugh out loud. The guilt comes in mainly because the show's producer is Dan Schneider and his treatment of the child actors in his orbit. That's a whole nother level we should talk about. It's true.

Katherine Van Arendonk (11:53)

That is such an interesting element of the kind of guilty pleasure phenomenon. And it is something that I certainly struggle with as a critic. There are lots of things that I have loved and have been really influential to me. And then you have to wrestle with how you feel about those creators and the legacy that they have left. And you know, one of those things in my life is that my youngest daughter loves Harry Potter hotter. And so that is something that I'm perpetually trying to think about.

Caller 2 / Host Assistant (12:24)

Yes.

Katherine Van Arendonk (12:25)

And, and so it is like for me, the answer to that is to continue to engage with those cultural works because they had an impact on us for a reason. But that you can't let yourself just brush whatever it is under the rug. You have to sort of sit and think and, and make sure that you are remembering all the elements of how that work came into the world and what it is doing now.

Alison Stewart (12:55)

Very good answer. My guest is Vulture TV critic Katherine Van Arendock. We're talking about the best shows to watch right now when it is so cold outside. What is your favorite show to watch? Two, three, four times. Tell us what draws you in. Do you have any guilty pleasures that you want to check out? Our phone number is 2124-339692-21243 WNYC. I see on my list here glitter and Gold. Do you want to set this up?

Katherine Van Arendonk (13:24)

Yes. This is a three part docu series that's on Netflix and it is about ice dancing. I cannot in good conscience recommend this docu series as a high quality piece of documentary filmmaking for a number of reasons. What the main one being that it is, it's a puff piece like they are, pardon me, skating through a lot of really thorny topics about the characters that they are following, including Chalk and Bates and the Canadian ice dancing pair Piper Gillis and Paul Poirier and the French team as well. If anyone has been watching the Olympics coverage of the ice dancing, you will know every single time that they announce them they're like, and by the way, there's sexual misconduct issues with this couple. And this, this docu series is not good at getting into them. It is very, very, very good at introducing the idea of these, these teams as characters. And if you have been following this ice dancing Olympics which had its. The finale was yesterday. I was able to watch that finale because of this docu series. Was watching that finale with my fingers just like gripping the sides of my sofa because I had had just enough more basis and I found it to be super, super engrossing kind of in spite of what the documentary was.

Alison Stewart (14:57)

Let's listen to a little bit.

Caller 2 / Host Assistant (14:58)

This ice dance duo and married couple Madison Chalk and Evan Bates talking about the early days of their relationship. This is from Glitter and Gold.

Glitter and Gold Participant (15:09)

When I first met Maddie, I just very vividly remember this like bright California girl, like coming into this cold rink in Michigan and just like lighting the place up with her smile and everything about her.

Katherine Van Arendonk (15:23)

Oh no.

Glitter and Gold Participant (15:24)

Okay, now it's starting.

Caller 1 (15:25)

Lol.

Glitter and Gold Participant (15:28)

When we started skating together, I just remember like the impression being really, really strong and being like, huh. I really like this person. I'm having a lot of fun.

Caller 1 (15:36)

It's just one of a better disguise.

Katherine Van Arendonk (15:39)

We had a really solid foundation of friendship.

Glitter and Gold Participant (15:46)

After five years of skating together, it got to the point where I was like, I felt more strongly than just being platonic friend or a skating partner.

Caller 2 / Host Assistant (15:55)

That is glitter and gold. This text says Ryan Murphy's new show tonight Love story. That's about JFK Jr. And Carolyn Bessette. This text says I loved Claire Dane so much in the Beast in Me. I'm now watching Homeland for the first time. The world is also eerily similar to the early 2000s in which it is set. This is interesting. I recently watched Ugly Betty in reverse order starting with the finale and ending with the pilot. That's interesting.

Katherine Van Arendonk (16:24)

That is wild. I have only done that a couple times and because there are a few screener websites that I will not name that like to upload their episodes in reverse order. And so I have accidentally watched things backwards and not understood what I was doing. I would love to know what that actually feels like for a show as sort of soap opera y in its structure as Ugly Betty. I. I don't know if I can set aside the time to do that, but I kind of. There would be. I'm trying to think of shows that would be. Outlander would be fascinating to watch backwards.

Caller 2 / Host Assistant (17:00)

Yeah. One of those shows we mentioned, the Beast in Me.

Katherine Van Arendonk (17:03)

Yes.

Caller 2 / Host Assistant (17:03)

Is a show that you put with groups like All Her Fault. What are the similarities between these shows?

Katherine Van Arendonk (17:12)

Both Beast in Me and All Her Fault are thrillers about motherhood that came out in the fall season. And they share so many similarities, actually, that it was a little funny. Our other TV critic at Vulture, Roxanna Hadati and I, she was assigned one and I was assigned to the other. And then we were sort of checking in on it being like, rewatching the same show. Like, what is going on here? There are different. They're quite. They. All Her Fault is more pointedly about marriage and motherhood and gender roles. And it is this thing where you're sort of gradually realizing that you are probably supposed to be hating these characters, whereas the Beast in Me is a little bit more of a thriller. Neighbor Next Door is something you know is continued murdering going to happen show. However they are from a viewing experience, I think very similar in the sense that you're introduced to these central characters. You are. You have this sense of a mystery that's happened in the past. You don't know what they are. They are unspooling. Gradually you're finding out more information about them. And then there are going to be these big surprises that happen as you get through the season. I will also say that they both do a thing that I am getting annoyed by in television, but I understand can be a very comforting structure, which is as you get near the end, there is a flashback episode. This enough that I'm like, okay, we don't. Why? Why is this always happening?

Caller 2 / Host Assistant (18:38)

However.

Katherine Van Arendonk (18:41)

It definitely grounds you once again in who these characters are so that by the time you get to the finale, you're like, what? I didn't know. And so both of those shows will give you that fun, grippy, thrilling experience.

Alison Stewart (18:52)

And they're very bingeable, by the way. This says I love All Creatures Great and Small on PBS at least six seasons. This says veep used to be my go to, but now it's too on the nose. Now I'm taking comfort in the Sopranos, which may arguably fall in the same ca shrinking on Apple TV all day, every day. The characters, dialogue and situations bring so much humor and heart. Who else did you want to add to this list? In terms of comedies, we've talked about dramas, we've talked about reality tv. What should we do in terms of.

Katherine Van Arendonk (19:26)

Drama or in comedy? So there's a couple of things. One is I wanted to point out if you have not binged Schitt's Creek after Catherine o' Hara has passed away, which was I was really, really upset about. That show is now on a lot of streaming services. It's many seasons long. It is that sort of lovely, heartwarming. It's very, very funny. She has this incredibly strange, oddball performance and then as the show goes, you get so attached to these characters and that is something that, you know, I think would be lovely to go back and just sit and fully binge again. And then there are two other comedies that I wanted to mention might be worth binging now because they have rev reasons coming up. The first one is Scrubs, which has new episodes coming soon. Scrubs is a. A really interesting sort of early 2000s comedy that I find a little, a little tricky to binge now because I think there are elements of its humor particularly to do with like the awooga eyes that it tends to do whenever a hot woman comes on screen that I that I am like struck by how much time has. Has passed that I this disorienting. But I but those characters are so interestingly drawn and it will be interesting to sort of have that in your back pocket if you want to watch the revival. The other one is a very sort of niche comedy called the Comeback on HBO starring Lisa Kudrow, which has a new season surprise coming out this spring.

Caller 2 / Host Assistant (21:05)

I'm very excited to find out what happens to Valerie Cherry.

Katherine Van Arendonk (21:08)

I know. And I think it's going to be about AI and so I think that will be a fun time on television.

Caller 2 / Host Assistant (21:17)

As usual, it has been a pleasure having you. Vulture TV critic Katherine Van Arendonck. Thanks, Katherine.

Katherine Van Arendonk (21:23)

Thank you so much. Never a guilty pleasure for me to be here.

Caller 2 / Host Assistant (21:27)

And that is all of it. I'm Alison Stewart. I appreciate you listening and I appreciate you. I'll meet you back here tomorrow.

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