Podcast Summary: All Of It with Alison Stewart

Episode: What Happened to Williamsburg?

Date: February 9, 2024
Host: Alison Stewart (WNYC)
Guest: Stephen Kurtz (New York Times cultural reporter)

Overview of the Episode

In this episode, Alison Stewart explores the transformation of Williamsburg, Brooklyn, over the past four decades. With guest Stephen Kurtz, the writer behind Williamsburg, What Happened? A Four Decade Timeline of Total Transformation in Brooklyn (NYT), the episode unpacks how Williamsburg evolved from a working-class immigrant neighborhood to an international destination driven by hip art scenes and now luxury brands. Listeners call in to share their own memories, painting a vivid portrait of change marked by shifting demographics, economics, and urban character.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Framing Williamsburg’s Transformation

• The conversation opens by situating Williamsburg on the ancestral homelands of the Lenape and Canarsie peoples, acknowledging the deeper history before the "Williamsburg" most New Yorkers now recognize.

  “What the neighborhood of Williamsburg and that name conjures for you right now is probably pretty different depending on the generation you're from.” – Alison Stewart [00:32]

• Stephen Kurtz specifies that while there are several “Williamsburgs”—South Williamsburg, North Side, beyond the BQE—his timeline covers the area broadly, focusing on the years 1988 to 2024.

  “We decided to take Williamsburg as a whole... the piece is written as a timeline, and it starts in 1988 and it goes to 2024.” – Stephen Kurtz [02:17]

2. Before the Artists: Williamsburg’s Pre-1988 Communities

• Prior to the wave of artists, Williamsburg had strong Puerto Rican, Dominican, Jewish (particularly in South Williamsburg), Ukrainian, and Polish communities.

  “It was an immigrant neighborhood of Puerto Rican and Dominican immigrants... South Williamsburg is known as a Jewish neighborhood. Ukrainians and Poles were also there.” – Stephen Kurtz [03:13]

3. Artists Arrive: The Late 1980s and Early 1990s

• Artists begin moving in after being priced out of Manhattan, attracted by cheap rents and proximity to the East Village via the L train.
• Early art spaces, like Lettuce Flam and Heron Test Site, mark the beginnings of a recognizable artist community.
• DIY venues and living spaces—converted lofts, factories, even a convent—defined the era.

Notable Call:

• Kate (North Side Resident) [05:53]: Describes “homesteading” a building in 1989, renovating it over seven years:

  “There was a little tunnel that... connected with the church, but we had to close that up. One... discovered that there had been an old garden in the back which had been paved over and was a parking lot. So we just scraped up all the asphalt and brought the garden back to life.” – Kate [07:29]

4. The New Bohemia (1992–Early 2000s)

• 1992 NYC Magazine “The New Bohemia” cover story spotlights Williamsburg as the next creative and cultural hotspot:

  “In the 70s, it was Soho. In the 80s, the East Village. In the 90s, it will be Williamsburg.” – Medea Device (quoted by Kurtz) [09:04]

• Venues like “The Lizard’s Tale” and the Right Bank Café become social hubs.
• Listeners recall the era’s unique spaces and the spirit of experimentation and community.

5. Gentrification Accelerates: Late 1990s–2000s

• 1998: Diner opens, epitomizing the “Brooklyn artisanal” movement—local ingredients, old-school design, modern vibe.

  “Diner really kind of created the template for this locavore, artisanal, kind of casual, cool service that restaurants and other businesses adopted.” – Stephen Kurtz [10:01]

• 1999: Key zoning changes pave the way for redevelopment, allowing conversion of warehouses to apartments and, under Bloomberg, enabling high-rise construction on the waterfront.

  “That... allows for the glassy apartment towers that line Kent Avenue.” – Stephen Kurtz [11:13]

• The arrival of developers like Toll Brothers accelerates change, introducing luxury real estate elements.

6. The Hipster Years (2002–2008)

• Post-9/11, Williamsburg cements its reputation as a cultural heart—Vice Magazine relocates, Northsix opens, McCarren Pool is cleaned up, underground music/art venues thrive.

  “It's kind of like the hipster years—this is when, you know, you have Vice magazine moving its offices to Williamsburg... Williamsburg starts to get a music scene that's distinct from Manhattan.” – Stephen Kurtz [17:12]

Listener Memories:

• Michelle (Longtime Resident) [14:15]: Recalls her 1981 arrival, $90/mo rents, Domino Sugar workers, and watching gentrification push up prices to $5,000+ for apartments.

  “I have watched the transformation... in terms of gentrification, economically changed. The things that were here disappeared, including somewhat the Polish neighborhood in the north side.” – Michelle [14:20]

• Caller Text [16:43]: Remembers $300 loft rent and “Happy Birthday Hideout” hosting rock shows.

7. The Luxury Wave and “Peak Gentrification”

• By the 2010s, high-end retail (Apple, Ralph Lauren, Hermes, Chanel) arrive.

  “From Domsies to Chanel... retailers decided that this neighborhood was the place to be. It increasingly throughout the 2000s, became a destination for international tourists and Brooklyn itself became an international brand.” – Stephen Kurtz [21:51]

• Longtime residents express ambivalence, some now avoiding the neighborhood on weekends due to crowds and congestion.

Listener Text:

“It has become a nightmare. Don't leave the house on the weekends. Too many people double parking and drinking coffee and vintage shopping. But getting worse. Hermes!!! Chanel!!! Help.” – Unnamed text [21:13]

8. Lessons for Other Neighborhoods

• Caller Aaron expresses concern about similar changes hitting Gowanus; Kurtz shares thoughts on maintaining neighborhood character amid upscale development:

  “It's a delicate balance, maintaining a neighborhood vibe and a sense that it is a real functioning neighborhood for everyone and not just a playland for the international rich.” – Stephen Kurtz [24:12]

Notable Quotes

• On Williamsburg’s Place in the City:

  “This is the cool new neighborhood in New York City. This is where culture is happening.” – Stephen Kurtz [09:04]

• On the Evolution from DIY to High-End:

  “It's a long way from Domsies to Chanel.” – Stephen Kurtz [20:06]

• On the Neighborhood’s Inevitable Upscaling:

  “Is this peak gentrification?... I think it's only going to get more and more upscale.” – Stephen Kurtz [23:51]

• On Collective Memory and Change:

  “To have lived here in that time and read the article, it may not mean much to a lot of people, but if you lived through it… it just brought up, I mean, to have lived here in that time and read the article, it may not mean much to a lot of people, but if you lived through it… it's rekindled some friendships of people that still live in the neighborhood.” – Brady (Greenpoint) [25:29]

Key Timestamps

• 00:32–03:05: Introduction to topic and defining Williamsburg’s many boundaries
• 03:13–04:47: Pre-artist, immigrant era and artist arrival story
• 05:53–08:12: Listener Kate’s homesteading story and memories
• 09:04: 1992 “New Bohemia” article and the start of Williamsburg’s hipster reputation
• 10:01–11:58: Diner, zoning changes, arrival of developers
• 13:12–16:43: Listener memories from 1980s/90s; Michelle on dramatic rent changes
• 17:12–21:13: The hipster era, key venues, shift toward luxury
• 21:13–23:51: Upscale chain arrivals, reflection on “peak” gentrification
• 24:12–27:15: Lessons for other neighborhoods, final listener stories

Memorable Listener Moments

• Candlelit vigil for closing venues, rehabbed church apartments, scavenging gardens under parking lots, hot dog-fueled open mics, and the $300/month band lofts—personal testaments to community, resilience, and change.
• Brady (Greenpoint) shares how Stephen's article sparked a wave of nostalgia among remaining locals and rekindled old friendships [25:29].

Episode Tone & Takeaways

The conversation blends nostalgia, humor, and a sense of loss with appreciation for the creativity and vibrancy that made (and still make) Williamsburg unique. It highlights the energy of grassroots community-building, the inexorable march of development, and leaves listeners pondering whether authenticity can endure as neighborhoods become global “brands.”

Recommended:
If you’ve ever pondered how cities evolve, or what we lose and gain in the process, this episode is a tapestry of urban memory and urban myth—crowded, noisy, and unforgettable, like Williamsburg itself.