Where Have All The Third Spaces Gone?

Summary

Title: Where Have All The Third Spaces Gone?

Podcast: All Of It

Host: Alison Stewart

Release Date: December 27, 2024

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Introduction

In the December 27, 2024 episode of WNYC’s "All Of It," host Alison Stewart explores the compelling topic of "third spaces"—the communal areas that exist outside of home and work where individuals can gather, socialize, and build community connections. Due to Alison Stewart's temporary absence, this episode features an encore presentation of conversations originally hosted by Kusha Navadar, offering listeners a deep dive into the significance, challenges, and evolving nature of third places in today’s society.

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Defining Third Places

The episode begins with Kusha Navadar introducing the concept of third places (00:17), emphasizing their role as essential communal spaces separate from home and work. She describes third places as environments like libraries, bookstores, parks, cafes, barbershops, and dog parks (00:53), where individuals can engage in community life without the pressures of personal or professional obligations. Kusha highlights the increasing scarcity of these spaces, referencing Robert Putnam’s influential book, "Bowling Alone," which discusses the decline in American social interactions and community involvement over the past two decades.

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Expert Insight: Ali Volpe on Third Places

Ali Volpe, a senior reporter at Vox, joins the conversation (02:21) to elaborate on the importance of third places. She discusses her motivation for writing about them, particularly in the context of the COVID-19 pandemic. Volpe notes that during the pandemic, people turned to outdoor third places due to indoor social distancing measures, leading to a heightened awareness of the need for community spaces (02:37). She expresses concern that many third places have not fully recovered post-pandemic, especially in low-income communities where disinvestment has led to the closure of vital communal hubs (03:52).

Impact of COVID-19 on Third Places

Kusha Navadar probes further into the lasting impacts of COVID-19 on third places beyond reduced operating hours and fewer establishments (03:32). Volpe references ongoing research indicating that third places were already in decline before the pandemic, and the crisis has exacerbated this trend, particularly in underserved areas. She underscores the critical need for these spaces in combating loneliness and fostering community, as highlighted by the US Surgeon General’s report on loneliness and isolation (04:25).

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Listener Input and Personal Experiences

Volpe shares her personal approach to maintaining multiple third places—a rotation of coffee shops across different neighborhoods—to nurture a sense of community and foster diverse interactions (05:35). She recounts positive, serendipitous conversations with baristas and regular patrons that enhance her feeling of belonging and connectedness (05:35).

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Changing Nature of Third Places

Kusha introduces feedback from listeners, including a text message noting that many third places have lost their social dynamic as patrons use them primarily for remote work, thereby reducing opportunities for personal interaction (06:14). Volpe addresses this concern by advocating for a shift in personal expectations and behaviors within these spaces. She encourages individuals to initiate conversations and embrace openness, suggesting that small efforts to engage can revitalize the social fabric of third places (06:49). Volpe emphasizes that fostering a welcoming environment requires collective responsibility and individual initiative (06:49).

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Callers’ Perspectives on Third Places

Several listeners contribute their unique perspectives and experiences, enriching the discussion:

1. Joey from the Lower East Side (09:57–11:10): Joey highlights movie theaters as unconventional yet meaningful third places. He explains how pre- and post-screening interactions create opportunities for community engagement and meaningful conversations. Joey mentions theaters like Metrograph and Regal Essex as hubs where regular patrons foster a sense of familiarity and camaraderie.

2. Amy, Gym Owner in Brooklyn (12:02–12:53): Amy, owner of Bikeland Studios, describes her gym as a vital third place that cultivates a strong sense of community. She shares how her gym serves as a social anchor for remote workers, providing a space where members can form friendships and support each other’s fitness journeys (12:07).

3. Julia from Ridgewood, Queens (17:05–17:41): Julia discusses her experience managing a TikTok food page that features restaurants as third places. She notes that rather than relying on a single third space, she engages with multiple establishments in her neighborhood, spreading her social interactions across various venues.

4. David from Suffern, New York (17:48–18:39): David shares how his synagogue became his primary third place after moving to Suffern. He emphasizes the role of his place of worship in providing community support, fostering friendships, and offering emotional solace during both challenging and joyous times.

5. Heather from Greenpoint (Text Message) (18:39–19:12): Heather highlights dog runs as ideal third places for non-drinkers to connect. She points out that shared interests, such as dog ownership, facilitate interactions across diverse economic and ethnic backgrounds, creating inclusive social environments.

6. Paul from Washington Heights (20:41–21:07): Paul introduces pickleball courts as dynamic third places where he and his wife engage with a varied community. He appreciates the social aspect of the game and the opportunity to meet and interact with new people.

7. Another Paul from Washington Heights (21:26–21:58): This Paul discusses English country dancing and contra dancing as vibrant third places. He highlights the welcoming atmosphere, live music, and the practice of changing partners after each dance as factors that foster community and continuous social interaction.

8. Michael from the East Village (22:17–22:32): Michael reflects on his long-term involvement in dance as a third place, sharing how decades of participation have led to enduring friendships and a strong sense of belonging within his dance community.

9. Heidi from Huntington (22:41–23:18): Heidi describes how horseback riding became her third place during the pandemic, providing a safe way to connect with others and build a supportive community centered around equestrian activities.

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Insights on Third Places

Towards the end of the episode, Volpe (23:43–24:28) discusses the inherent challenges adults face in making new friends compared to childhood. She stresses that third places offer low-pressure environments where regular interactions can naturally lead to meaningful connections. Volpe encourages listeners to actively engage with third places to foster community bonds and alleviate feelings of isolation.

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Conclusion

Kusha and Alison summarize the diverse array of third spaces mentioned by the callers, including Central Park, YMCAs, churches, community gardens, and more (24:28–24:50). They invite listeners to share their favorite third places via social media platforms such as Instagram and X (formerly Twitter), reinforcing the podcast’s community-centric ethos.

Alison Stewart closes the episode by teasing upcoming topics and segments, maintaining listener engagement and anticipation for future discussions.

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Notable Quotes

• Kusha Navadar (00:53): “A place where everyone may not know your name, but you can connect with people.”

• Ali Volpe (02:37): “There was a real hunger for community that I know many people have felt, myself included, during that time.”

• Ali Volpe (06:49): “Be the change you want to see.”

• Amy (12:07): “People know when you come back from vacation.”

• David (17:48): “That's where I could share that and get the support.”

• Ali Volpe (16:58): “These areas can really provide resources for people.”

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Final Thoughts

The episode of "All Of It" offers a comprehensive exploration of third places, underscoring their vital role in fostering community, combating isolation, and enhancing individual well-being. Through expert insights, personal anecdotes, and active listener participation, the podcast paints a vivid picture of the current state of third spaces and the collective effort needed to preserve and rejuvenate these essential communal hubs. Listeners are left with a deep appreciation for the value of third places and inspired to actively seek out and contribute to their local communities.

Transcript

[Ali Volpe]

Listener support, WNYC Studios.

[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Today we're sharing some conversations that Kusha Navadar hosted here on the show while I was out for a while. One of those conversations centered around third spaces. Listeners were invited to call in and share their gathering spaces. So you will hear some of those calls. But since this is an all of an encore presentation, we won't be able to take your calls today. So let's get into it. Here's Koosha.

[Kusha Navadar]

Our lives are lived in three places. There's home, there's work, and a third place. But ideally, it's not a place that bridges the first two. It's a separate place. Maybe it's a library, a bookstore, a park, cafe, barbershop, dog park. Basically, a place where you can be in community, outside your home and work. A place where you can go and be a regular. A place where everyone may not know your name, but you can connect with people. They're becoming increasingly underutilized. Over two decades ago, Robert Putnam's groundbreaking book Bowling Alone pointed out that Americans were socializing less in person and becoming disengaged from community involvement. And many spaces and many people used and many spaces that people used as third places closed during the COVID 19 pandemic. But we need third places. Last year, the US Surgeon General released a report titled Our epidemic of loneliness and isolation. It found that even before the pandemic, about half of U.S. adults reported experiencing measurable levels of loneliness. Ali Volpe is a senior reporter at Vox. She recently wrote an article titled if you want to belong, find a third place. In it, she writes, you don't need to take on the Herculean task of making new friends to be less lonely. You may just need a third place. Ali, welcome to wnyc.

[Ali Volpe]

Thanks so much for having me.

[Kusha Navadar]

Absolutely. You know, third places aren't a new concept. They've been written about and studied for some time. I'm thinking of the book we just mentioned, Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam. What made you want to write about this now?

[Ali Volpe]

Yeah, so during the pandemic, I had written a piece about how people were rethinking third places outdoors. Obviously, because we could not collectively gather indoors. There was a real hunger for community that I know many people have felt, myself included during that time when we had to social distance to be safe and not spread the virus. So a lot of people were turning their eyes outdoors. And so now that we've moved past that acute phase of the pandemic, Things have sort of settled into a relative state of normalcy. I wanted to revisit the concept. What are people doing about third places now? Are we still thinking about them in the same ways? Do we think we need more of them? And a lot of the experts I talked to, it turns out people are sort of like wistful for this idea. They felt like it's something they may have had in the past that they don't have anymore and they wished they had more of it.

[Kusha Navadar]

You know, you say that since it, since the pandemic, it's gotten into kind of a state of normalcy or at least returning back to it. But I'm wondering, besides some of the more obvious things about there are fewer places open, they're not open as late as they used to be. Have you seen a lasting impact on Covid on third places outside of those two ideas?

[Ali Volpe]

Right, so one of the researchers I talked to, she did a study that was released prior to the pandemic and found even before that third places were closing. And so she's in the process of doing some follow up research to see, like, what the impact of the pandemic has been. So she doesn't have any, you know, super clear data yet. But, you know, she suspects that, you know, disinvestment in low income communities and the places that have closed and have not been reopened could have a major impact on the amount of third places that currently exist.

[Kusha Navadar]

And, you know, speaking of COVID there's this Reddit thread that asks the question, what's your third place? And I saw this response. It said, I work remotely from home, interested in finding a second space. Can you talk about that a little bit? Ali?

[Ali Volpe]

Yeah. So the idea of the third place is the first place is your home, the second place is your work. The third place is this place where you hang out with other people that isn't work or home. And I'm in the same boat. My first and second place is my home. So I think it makes it that much more important to find a place where you can go, you can feel welcomed, you can interact with people who are different from you. That's really, really crucial. And it can be hard to find if you feel like you, you know, maybe live in an area where like, you have to drive somewhere to just like, get out of your neighborhood. The way that our communities are laid out makes it difficult to find a third place. Not everyone is lucky to, you know, live in a city that, you know, you walk outside and you might have a coffee shop or a Library down the. It is difficult to try to find these places, but yes, in this era of remote work, it makes it all the more important to get out of the house.

[Kusha Navadar]

How do you deal with it? Do you have like a cafe shop that you go to all the time? Do you have something on rotation? What's, what's your approach?

[Ali Volpe]

I have a rotation of coffee shops actually. So like I will do one before going to the gym, another one for work, another one in another neighborhood if I'm meeting up with friends. And I love it. Like just this morning I went to my pre gym coffee shop and the barista, you know, she's probably, probably my mother's age. Like I'm in my 30s, so, you know, she's quite a bit older than me. But we really connect over things like beyond coffee. She gave me recommendations for a restaurant today. And you know, we talk about the weather, which I know people, you know, groan at, but it's always a really pleasant conversation. I love talking with her and it does make me feel like I'm a part of something.

[Kusha Navadar]

Allie, we gotta. I already see the phone calls coming in actually, which is exciting. There are some texts that we got. There's one text that says. My experience lately is a many of the third places have stopped being social as people are doing their work from home there and actually don't want conversation, etc. Around them and they have nowhere to go. But also change the nature of those places. I'm wondering if you have any insight on that, if you've seen the behavior of folks changing within those third places and kind of making it harder even to reclaim what those places used to be for at least. What do you think?

[Ali Volpe]

Absolutely, like, guilty as charged. Like I'm the person there with the laptop sometimes, like so deep in it. But I think like, we need to change our expectations of, you know, how we approach other people in these spaces. I think if we are, you know, willing to strike up a conversation maybe with someone else who's also at their laptop or even the barista, it sort of gives people the permission, like, okay, it's, it's all right to talk here. Like the coffee shops I love to go to, yes, people are often working. But you know, my friend, she'll see somebody from across the cafe that she knows and she will literally like scream to them, like, hey, what's up? And like, have a conversation. So I think it just kind of encourages that open communication, as corny as it sounds, like, be the change you want to see. Like if you want to have a more social third place, I think we have to, like, just let people know it's okay. Because, I mean, with good reason. People are like, I don't want to bother that person. I don't want to be weird. I don't want to offend them. Like, and I totally get that. And I've been the annoying person that has probably, like, gotten too close to somebody or, like, ask them a question, and they do want to be bothered. But there's studies that actually show that, like, those people like us more than we think. So I think if we just, like, drown out the negative thoughts in our head that tell us, like, oh, we're being weird. This isn't the space for that. Like, we're humans. We are designed to connect. And I think we just need to be open to it.

[Kusha Navadar]

And, you know, you always wait for somebody to pop the bubble. Kind of like, somebody's got got to do it. So, like you said, be the change. We have another. We have a tweet that I want to read out here. It says, I'm an avid cyclist, a roadie, a member of two local clubs, the NYCC and Rafa. We meet on weekday mornings in Central park for laps, and on weekends, typically head north to Nyack, Katona and Bear Mountain. And that's Jeff Pomerantz on On X. So thanks so much for that. And you know, Ali, you mentioned that you had a pre gym cafe. Right. So I'm wondering for you. Let's look at the gym for a second. Do you consider the gym to be a third place?

[Ali Volpe]

Oh, definitely. That pandemic third place story I was alluding to earlier. I did speak to someone who, prior to the pandemic, really felt so strongly about their gym being their third place and how, you know, with masks or reduced capacity, how difficult it was to talk to people because, yeah, when we're in the gym, like, if you're in a class with someone specially, like, you want to strike up a conversation, you might see those people every day or every week. And so it's only natural that you want to connect with those people. A gym is a perfect place because it's bringing people together, you know, who might have different athletic abilities, certainly different lifestyles and jobs, points of view. And it brings them all in this place collectively where you can hang out and even make friends. Like, my best friend has made some incredible friendships from her gym. And again, not to say that you need to make friends, but it can lead to that road if you want it to.

[Kusha Navadar]

Yeah. And some Gyms are specifically for creating community too, like, you know, group classes or training together. Let's get into some calls. We've got Joey from the Lower east side. Hey, welcome to the show.

[Joey]

Hi. Thanks. Yeah, first time caller. I wanted to bring up movie theaters as my third place. I'm a film editor and I think it's a, you know, you wouldn't necessarily think of it as a third place potentially because of the isolation of watching a movie. But pre screening and post screening, you know, we've. You just gone through the experience together. So there is a lot of opportunity to share, you know, strike up conversation with a stranger or share your thoughts.

[Kusha Navadar]

Yeah, absolutely. Joey, that's such an interesting perspective. Do you go to the same movie theater and do you see the same, like, regulars there that you ended up making a connection with?

[Joey]

Sure, some. Sometimes. The two I could shout out is the Metrograph down here. And then also there's Regal Essex, which sort of harkens back to like the mall era because they have like this little seating area and it's a huge space, especially for being in the city. So, yeah, I mean, I occasionally see the same people, but even so, you know, there's always like an opportunity to have a brief conversation on the way to the bathroom or on the way out.

[Kusha Navadar]

Totally. And Joey, but just before I let you go, I think this is interesting just purely from your anecdotal evidence. Do you find that some moviegoers are friendlier based on the genre of movie? Like, is there a genre where you go, oh, I'll probably strike up a conversation more easily here. Or is it just you never know what you're gonna get?

[Joey]

That's a funny question. I guess, you know, maybe the more, like, intense or potentially controversial the film is, the more opportunities I feel like I've had striking up a conversation. I remember during Zone of Interest, there was one instance where, like, everybody kind of got out. Like, what was that? What happened? And it, you know, brought us brought into some nice conversation about what everyone thought.

[Kusha Navadar]

Well, Joey, thank you so much for that call. It's a wonderful idea. There a third place is with movie theaters. Let's go to Amy in Brooklyn. Hey, Amy, welcome to the show.

[Amy]

Hey, how are you? Thanks for taking my call.

[Kusha Navadar]

Yeah, welcome.

[Amy]

So I actually own a gym in Brooklyn and we are very much a third place for many, many people. And I just want to sort of, you know, second that as the place. And I guess it depends on your gym. Our gym is called Bikeland Studios and we're super community based and many people have made friends and it is that sense of community. You see the same people every day. People know when you come back from vacation. I think for many it has replaced a work community, especially for our remote workers.

[Kusha Navadar]

Amy, thank you so much for that call. Shout out to Bikeland Studios in Brooklyn. There, thanks so much for offering. From the owner's perspective of a gym.

[Alison Stewart]

We've been listening to a conversation with Vox senior reporter Ali Volpe hosted by Kushinavadhar. We'll hear more about Third Spaces in a minute. This is all of it.

[Ali Volpe]

WNYC Studios is supported by GiveWell. When you make a big purchase, say a car or a new mattress, how do you make sure that you're making the right choice? GiveWell provides an independent resource for a different kind of purchase, a donation. Over 100,000 donors have used GiveWell to donate. First time using GiveWell. When you go to givewell.org and pick podcast and enter WNYC at checkout, you can have your donation matched up to $100 before the end of the year or as long as matching funds last.

[Kusha Navadar]

I'm erin Moriarty of 48 Hours, and of all the cases I've covered, this is the one that troubles me most. A bizarre and maddening tale involving an.

[Joey]

Eyewitness account that doesn't quite make sense.

[Kusha Navadar]

A sister testifying against a brother, a lack of physical evidence. Crosley Greene has lived half his life.

[Joey]

Behind bars for a crime he says he didn't commit.

[Kusha Navadar]

Listen to Murder in the Orange Grove, the Troubled Case Against Crosley Greene. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it. I'm Alison Stewart. Today we're sharing some conversation hosted by Kusha Navadar as a way of saying thanks for stepping up to the plate while I was out for a while. So let's get back into it. Before the break, we were hearing kha's conversation with Vox senior reporter Ali Volpe about Third Spaces. They took some calls, but because this is an encore presentation, we won't be able to take your calls today. So let's get back into it. Here's Koosha.

[Kusha Navadar]

A text came in. Ali, I want to get your reaction to it. It says, I am a public librarian and working in a third space is an incredible privilege. I can tell when someone just needs to chat for a minute and you can see their whole posture change when they leave. Being able to provide someone a moment of kind conversation is one of the best parts of my no Cuts to Libraries. And that's from Emma Erickson what do you think about that text? It seems like libraries can be a really good third place.

[Ali Volpe]

Yeah, I love that so much. And it reminds me of a study I saw that, like, people will, you know, confide in people who work at third places, like bartenders or hairdressers. And it sounds like also, you know, library workers just to, like, have that listening ear. It might feel so vulnerable, but to, like, to just be able to confide in someone is so, so powerful. And to be able to do that at a library. Places, you know, that, you know, have been shutting down as well, you know, just furthers the point that, like, we need to support these places. The best way to show that, you know, we want these places is to keep going to them.

[Kusha Navadar]

You know, for a lot of people, I'm thinking of the hundreds of people in Chicago who tragically died during the 1995 heat wave. These third places can be even just a matter of life and death. And it makes me wonder, do you think that there are any groups of people for whom third places are especially important, like teens or the. The elderly? What do you think?

[Ali Volpe]

Absolutely. Yeah. Like these places, again, libraries are often cooling centers for populations in the summer that, you know, do not have air conditioning. And so these could be real life saving amenities. I talked to a researcher who looked at people with young people with histories of housing instability and homelessness, and she said they often turn to these third places for resources, like a safe place to be outside of school, a place to get snacks when, you know, you might not have any at home. So these areas can really provide resources for people.

[Kusha Navadar]

Let's go to some callers. Our phone lines are lit up. Let's go to Julia in Ridgewood, Queens. Hey, Julia, welcome to the show.

[Amy]

Hi. Thanks for having me. So last year, I worked for a TikTok Food page, and I produced a series about food places like restaurants, eateries, and the such like that were also third places. I started by just kind of picking ones I'd observed, but the series changed as time went on and as it got views, and then I started crowdsourcing them. But I gotta say, for all of this finding of third places across the city, I don't know if I have a third place of my own. I think I kind of spread myself across my neighborhood across several places.

[Kusha Navadar]

Julia, thank you so much for that call. Let's go to David in Suffern, New York. Hey, David, welcome to the show.

[Joey]

Hello.

[Amy]

Good afternoon. Thank you for taking my call. So I want to say that when I moved to Suffern, the First thing I did, being a total stranger here, is found out where my nearest chabad house, my synagogue was, and that became my third place, possibly even my second or first place. Every single day, you know, after prayers, we chat. My friends. That's where I made all my friends. Every Saturday after prayers, there's a lunch, and that's when we schmooze. And that's where I made my friends and my friendships. When I go through a difficult time or a happy time, that's where I could share that and get the support. So I really think that, you know, encouraged people to go to their place of worship and make friends there and build community there, because that was my experience, and I have no regrets.

[Kusha Navadar]

Wonderful, David. Thank you so much for that. We've got a text in here that I'd like to read as well. It says, hi, this is Heather from Greenpoint. My third place is the dog run for people who don't drink. It's a great place to meet people of all different economic and ethnic backgrounds, but who share a love for dogs. And I gotta point out, Ali, there's a lot of dog love that's happening right now in our tech. It seems like a lot of people are finding their third place, either in their dog or through their dog. Do you have a dog? Do you have any experience with, like, third? Placing it through your. Your. Your creature?

[Ali Volpe]

I'm obsessed. I do not have a dog, but I totally.

[Kusha Navadar]

Like.

[Ali Volpe]

I love dogs. And, like, it makes total sense, especially when, like, if we do feel weird approaching somebody already, knowing we have that thing in common of, like, okay, we're both here for our pets, makes it so much easier to break the ice with somebody. I've been noticing in Philadelphia, where I live, like, there are more, like, dog bars opening up. And I think, again, that's awesome. Like, you bring your dog, you have a beer, or don't if you don't want to. But it's like a great icebreaker that you already know. Like, we could have so many things that are different about our lives, but we have this one thing in common, and that is a subject I could talk about.

[Kusha Navadar]

You know, another thing that a producer just pointed out to me here, I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but we're seeing a gender disparity, too, with the calls that we're getting right now. A lot of male callers, which is interesting, or folks who identify as male. And I'm not sure if there's anything to go into with that, but just an Observation that I'm seeing here from all of the calls. We also just got a new text from a rabbi to call Harken. Back to that last caller. As a rabbi of a community, I see every day how important our synagogue is as a third space. It's where people can connect during moments of change that are painful or inspiring. It also gives people a weekly place to just come and be seen and respected and loved for who they are. So thank you so much for that text. We've also got another caller here's in Washington Heights. Hey, Paul, welcome to the show.

[Amy]

Thank you. I wanted to do a shout out for pickleball. My wife and I have been playing recently and the hangout time between games and getting to know people cross section of New Yorkers. Then when we go on trips, we find pickleball courts and the community's there again. So it's great.

[Kusha Navadar]

Paul, thank you so much for that. Have you made any close friends through pickleball?

[Amy]

Yeah, we go with friends, you know, so it's not so much about close friends. It's about the community with people we don't know. So that's what's kind of fun.

[Kusha Navadar]

Oh, wonderful. I want to go to another Paul, also in Washington Heights, it looks like. Hey, Paul from Washington Heights. Welcome to the show.

[Joey]

Oh, thank you for taking my call. So my third place is English country dancing and contra dancing. In Manhattan, we dance. Actually, our last concha dance, because we.

[Kusha Navadar]

Break for the summer is tomorrow.

[Joey]

But we dance at Church of the village at West 13th off 7th Avenue. Beginners are welcome. You don't need a partner. We actually change partners after each dance and it's all done to live music.

[Kusha Navadar]

Wonderful, Paul, thank you so much for that. I gotta say, my third space, if we're just talking about it, is dance as well. I take west coast swing dances every Tuesday. Emmanuel Pierre Dance Studio up in Midtown. So shout out to that, Paul. Thank you so much. I'm looking at the clock. I think we have time for a couple more calls. Let's go to Michael in the East Village. Hey, Michael, welcome to the show.

[Amy]

Hi. Thank you so much.

[Kusha Navadar]

So what's your experience with dance spaces?

[Amy]

40 years ago, I saw an ad in the back of the Village Voice.

[Joey]

For auditions for a chorus, and I joined and I've been with it for 40 years.

[Amy]

And it's wonderful.

[Kusha Navadar]

Circle of Friends, wonderful. Thank you, Michael, for that. And I think we got time for just one more caller. I see Heidi in Huntington. Hey, Heidi, welcome to the show.

[Amy]

Hey, thanks for taking my call. I Live in Huntington. And when Covid happened, it was obviously very isolating, especially in the suburbs. So I took up horseback riding. And in this way, you know, I could be with people but not be close to them. And I could still be outside, and I could be with animals. And now I'm at a wonderful barn in the state park in Long island in Huntington. And the people in the barn, you know, we're very connected. We help each other with our horses. We keep our eye out for each other. It's really a wonderful community, and we share our love of horses. It's just amazing.

[Kusha Navadar]

That's wonderful. Thank you, Heidi, so much. So we got dogs, and we've got horses. Animals are often our best friends or our conduit to best friends. I would say we gotta wrap up here. But, you know, Ali, one thing that you wrote in your article that I wanted to be sure that we touched on was that you refer to the, quote, herculean task of finding new friends. So I'm wondering what makes it difficult. But more specifically, any advice for folks as they're going into these third spaces or looking for them?

[Ali Volpe]

Yeah, I mean, when you think about in childhood, it seemed easier to make friends because you were in contexts with other people. We were in school, we were in clubs, we were in sports. We had neighborhoods that maybe had other kids. It was just you were surrounded by other people. And so I think that's what makes. Makes folks feel like it's harder to find friends these days, because outside of our workplaces, we're not really around different people all that often, which is why third places are great to put you in a context with people that might be different from you, that might be like you, people that you might want to be friends with. But obviously, there's, like, no pressure that you even need to be their friend. But the fact that you can keep showing up to these places and make it regular, the likelihood that you do form a connection with them is all the more likely.

[Kusha Navadar]

And I want to shout out some of the third spaces that we're getting because there are so many texts that we unfortunately don't have time to get to. But just to kind of recap them, we're hearing Central park, we're hearing the ymca, we're hearing church, community gardens. The list really goes on. So, listeners, if you want to DM us on Instagram or on X, we're at Olive NYC with your favorite third spaces, we would love to hear it.

[Alison Stewart]

That was Kusha Navadar's conversation with Vox senior reporter Ali Volpe. And that is all of it for this hour. We'll have more of Koosha's conversations after the news, including how underwater sounds help shape the marine ecosystem, the science of flavor, and the art of speechwriting. That's coming up after the news. Stick around.

[Kusha Navadar]

I'm Ira Flato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, our team has been reporting high quality news about science, technology and medicine, news you won't get anywhere else. And now that political news is 24 7, our audience is turning to us to know about the really important stuff in their lives. Cancer, climate change, genetic engineering, childhood diseases. Our sponsors know the value of science and health news. For more sponsorship information, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.