Podcast Summary: "Who Makes More? How to Handle Income Disparities in Love — and Friendships"

Podcast: All Of It (WNYC)
Host: David Fuerst (in for Alison Stewart)
Guest: Farnoosh Torabi, Personal Finance Expert and Author
Date: September 11, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of All Of It explores the complexities and emotions that arise around income disparities in both romantic relationships and friendships. Host David Fuerst speaks with Farnoosh Torabi, personal finance expert and author of A Healthy State of Panic and When She Makes More. Together, they discuss how money, identity, gender roles, and communication interact when one person earns more (or less) than another—offering both practical guidance and deep empathy for listeners navigating these challenges.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Role of Fear in Personal Finance

• Fear as a Motivator
  • Farnoosh introduces her book's concept: "fear can be a friend," turning anxiety about topics like money into motivation for action and reflection ([01:06]).
  • "I'm terrified a lot of the time. And I'm getting things done. I'm getting my finances figured out." — Farnoosh Torabi ([01:15])

2. Prevalence & Evolution of Income Disparities

• Changing Household Dynamics
  • More dual-income couples exist now, but complexities remain—especially as more women become primary earners ([01:59]).
  • "About 16% of women out earn their male spouses...so the challenges are, how do we both feel like we’re equal financial players?" — Farnoosh Torabi ([02:20])
• Instability and Shifting Circumstances
  • Unemployment or changes in financial status can quickly alter the balance in a relationship.

3. When (and How) to Start Financial Discussions

• Timing is Key
  • Start real money conversations when relationship milestones arise: moving in together, major joint purchases, combining households ([03:24]).
  • Farnoosh shared her own experience, noting she and her husband discussed finances before moving in together ([03:24]).

4. Approaches to Splitting Expenses

• No One-Size-Fits-All
  • Couples should first decide which expenses are shared versus individual, especially with blended families or debt ([04:29]).
  • Farnoosh emphasizes using proportional contributions: "Maybe a percentage where the higher earner...we're putting in each 20% of our incomes for this shared pool" ([04:48]).
  • Value is not just in salaries; contributions can also be child savings, time, or domestic labor ([05:55]).

5. Debt and Partnership

• Managing Uneven Debts
  • Debts carry the name of the individual—marriage doesn’t automatically merge liabilities ([07:13]).
  • Couples can support each other's goals by one focusing on debt repayment while the other covers household costs ([07:37]).

6. Gender, Social Expectations, and Resentment

• Cultural Pressures Remain
  • Studies show higher break-up rates when women outearn men, due to societal expectations ([08:53]).
  • "Money is just a tool. It doesn’t have a gender." — Farnoosh ([10:45])
  • Therapy—including with financial therapists—can help partners untangle ingrained gender expectations ([10:58]).

Notable Listener Moments & Expert Guidance

Listener Call — Jen from Park Slope ([11:24])

Jen, who lost her job and now manages the household while her husband works, struggles with feeling "less than."

• Host response: “Jen, I don’t want to hear you calling yourself less than. No, I really don’t.” — David Fuerst ([12:28])
• Expert insight: Farnoosh highlights the economic value of caregiving and reframes unemployment as an opportunity for personal reassessment. She encourages listeners to see worth beyond salaries: "The contributions that you’re making for your household are six figures in value." ([12:42])

Text: Higher Earner Wants to Help, Partner Feels Guilty ([14:43])

• Advice: Farnoosh recommends creating joint accounts for specific expenses, but also shifting emphasis to non-financial forms of contribution, such as time or emotional support ([15:09]).
• "Partnerships are not just about give and take—sometimes it’s about allowing your partner to feel good in providing." — Farnoosh ([15:30])

Joint Versus Separate Accounts: Generational & Personal Perspectives

Anna from Tenafly, NJ ([17:31])

45+ years of a joint account, seeing today's discussions as more "transactional."

• Farnoosh: Financial independence is increasingly important for modern couples. Separate accounts can foster autonomy, reduce conflict, and create healthy boundaries ([18:40]).
• “Marriage is a contract. It is actually a transaction. So to treat your money a little bit like that...it’s practical.” — Farnoosh ([19:15])

Suzanne from Philadelphia ([21:15])

Combined finances for 27 years—but saw the benefits of separation during divorce: "I would have been in such a better financial situation..." ([22:05])

• Farnoosh: Having your own accounts provides “optionality when times get tricky,” both in marriage and if it ends ([23:31]).
• "Financial autonomy...means you have options, you have more freedom, you have more room to play." — Farnoosh ([24:10])

Couples Who Make It Work: Hybrid Solutions

Text and Call from Nancy in Suffolk County ([27:25])

Joint accounts plus “yours, mine, and ours”—separate funds for discretionary spending, vacation, or charity.

• This flexible, percentage-based approach accommodates fluctuating incomes and personal priorities ([27:40]).
• Farnoosh: “All listeners, do that!” ([28:37])

Key Takeaways and Final Reflections

• Transparency is Critical:
  No hidden accounts—open access and shared information prevent misunderstanding ([24:29]).

• Therapy Helps:
  Couples who’ve gone through therapy—or discuss financial issues with help—report more alignment and resilience ([25:45]).

• Financial Values Match vs. Opposites:
  While some couples are both savers, research shows "financial opposites" are more common—and need strategies to bridge their differences ([26:19]).

• Financial Autonomy & Respect:
  Keeping some finances separate fosters respect, autonomy, and flexibility within committed partnerships ([23:31]).

• Redefining Value:
  Contributions beyond income—caregiving, emotional support, prudent saving—matter and must be recognized ([12:42], [15:30]).

Memorable Quotes

• "I'm terrified a lot of the time. And I'm getting things done. I'm getting my finances figured out." — Farnoosh Torabi ([01:15])
• "Money is just a tool. It doesn’t have a gender." — Farnoosh Torabi ([10:45])
• "The contributions that you’re making for your household are six figures in value." — Farnoosh Torabi ([12:42])
• "Financial autonomy...means you have options, you have more freedom, you have more room to play." — Farnoosh Torabi ([24:10])
• "Partnerships are not just about give and take—sometimes it’s about allowing your partner to feel good in providing." — Farnoosh Torabi ([15:30])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:06] — "A Healthy State of Panic" & Fear as Motivation
• [01:59] — Evolution of Income Disparities & Changing Household Roles
• [03:24] — When to Start Money Talks in Relationships
• [04:29] — Splitting Expenses; Custom Solutions
• [07:13] — Handling Debt Differences
• [08:53] — Cultural/Gendered Expectations and the Impact on Relationships
• [12:28] & [12:42] — Listener Story: Feeling "Less Than" and Expert Guidance
• [14:43] — Listener Question: Guilt of Lower-Earning Partner
• [17:31], [21:15], [27:25] — Listener Calls: Generational Solutions and Hybrid Approaches
• [23:31] — Farnoosh on Financial Autonomy/Preparation for the Unexpected

Books Mentioned

• A Healthy State of Panic
• When She Makes More (For female breadwinner dynamics)

This episode provides empathetic, practical, and nuanced advice for anyone navigating financial mismatches in their closest relationships, emphasizing open dialogue, respect, and the many forms that "contribution" can take.