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Foreign.
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This is all of it. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC studios in soho. Thank you for sharing part of your day with us. I'm really grateful that you are here. On today's show, we'll talk about the science behind ear worms and learn why some songs are just playing on repeat in your head. We'll talk to Beth Kobiner. She'll join us to talk about her book Get a Financial Life. And we'll hear from Pat Patrick Ball and Madeline Brewer, who are currently on Broadway starring in the Tony nominated play Becky Shaw. That's our plan. So let's get this started with the cost of youth sports in Jersey. Affordability is the word of the moment in American American politics. And now the crisis has come to youth sports, according to new reporting. And some New Jersey families are paying up to $20,000 a year for their kids to play sports and keep pace with the increasing expectations of young athletes. And nationally, a study from the Aspen Institute found that the cost of youth Sports has ridden 46% since 2019. Some say the reason is the increase in private equity, which has been increasingly taking over ownership of youth leagues and venues where competitions take place. If you're a parent, this come as no surprise how many of your weeknights and weekends are booked with your kids travel team along with all the hidden costs that come with participating. NJ.com sports columnist Steve Politi interviewed nearly 100 parents, coaches, athletes and experts for his article the Shocking Cost of Youth Sports in New Jersey. He's here with me now to discuss what he found. Hey, Steve.
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C
Hey, Allison. Thanks for having me.
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B
So glad to talk to you. When did you first begin to notice or to hear about this sudden rising cost in youth sp?
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C
Well, I'm both a reporter on the story, but also a youth sports dad. So I I experienced it with my checkbook before I started experience with my notebook on this in this example. But yeah, I mean, I think if you're in this world and you're a parent, this is part of your reality. And I, you know, I think just talking to people on sidelines on games, just about it and just the experiences shared in that way. And a lot of us are in the same boat here in our newsroom. And we decided that, you know, it was something that was would be worth looking into just from the broader perspective. And we kind of asked the readers to give their, you know, thoughts in a survey. And the responses were so passionate and so many people kind of going through the same thing. And it's not just that, you know, 2,000, $3,000 you spend when you first sign up for the team. I mean, there are private coaching and there's, you know, travel associated with it to out of state, out of states, when you're paying for hotels or flights and then nickel and diming and so many ways where you wouldn't even expect it. You go to see your kid play at a AU basketball tournament and it's $20 to park, it's $25 to get inside, it's $50 for the subscription service, so you can watch it on your phone. I mean, it's just every single thing, it seems like when you're involved in this world is money coming out of your wallet.
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D
As you did your reporting, you cited this Aspen Institute statistic that sports, the cost of youth Sports has risen 46% since 20, 2019. What did you learn your reporting about why there's been such a sudden sharp in these past six or seven years?
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C
You know, you know, I think there's a lot of factors. You know, I think part of it is obviously everything costs more. You could just start with, with that part of it. You know, I, I think there are fewer cheap options for parents. Like, if you want to get your kid involved. This, my experience as a kid, you know, you, you signed up for a rec team. You know, you pay, you sold candy bars to pay for the, the subscription. It was, was cheap. A deli was, you know, I played for quick check when I was a kid. All of that. So many of those affordable options are gone. And it means if you're starting now, if you're putting your kid in this, you're right away you're in a town travel league and that's more expensive. That's part of it. And I think on the other side of it, on the higher level, you are seeing a lot of these private equity companies recognizing that this is a $40 billion industry where people like me, people like a lot of parents are willing to spend money to see that their kids succeed. And I think they're taking advantage of that on many different levels, whether it's, you know, buying the ice rinks that once hosted affordable skate times for kids and pricing them out, or, you know, buying the travel teams. So you have, you know, you're paying money to those leagues on, on the, on every level of you go, you go through it. You know, I think, I think you're seeing that now that, that that big business has taken over the space.
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B
Yeah, you have to follow the money basically.
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C
Exactly.
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Yeah, we are discussing the recent dramatic rise in the cost of youth sports and how it's affecting parents and players and the entire sports ecosystem. My guest is NJ.com sports columnist Steve Politi who spent six months reporting a new article called the Shocking Cost of Youth Sports in New Jersey. We'd like to hear from you, especially Jersey parents. What have you noticed about how the cost of youth sports has changed recently? Help us report the story. Call our Texas now at 2124-3396-9222-2433. WNYC. What do you have to pay for your kid to participate? How has the rise in cost affected your kids ability to participate? What do you think the solution to the problem could be? Parents outside of New Jersey are also invited to join this conversation. If your kid plays youth sports and you've noticed a rise in costs in your area, Our number is 212-433-969-2212 4338 wnyc. You can call in and join the conversation or you can text to us at that number as well. Can we start at the beginning? What are your basic costs? When you're sure?
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C
Absolutely. Let's start with you know, you're, you charge in, you want to get your in the team. There's a travel league fee right off the bat. And you know, I think that the Aspen Institute's recent study, 2024, the average family spends about $1,000 for initial signups. The parents I talk to would sign for that in blood. It is. Well that is laughably low for what it New Jersey especially to join a, to join a youth team. So there's two, $3,000 at the start for that. If you turn, if your kid turns out to be good, well, you know, you look at what the kid across the street's doing. The other, other kids in the neighborhood, oh, they're getting private lessons. So there's another hundred dollars an hour session for that. You know, if your team, if your kid's really good, it'll be on a travel team or should be on a travel team. So I mean look at all the gas to get to the places or airfare, hotels. A lot of these travel tournaments will force you to stay at certain hotels to participate. So you have to spend money to, you know, to be in a specific hotel. There's just cost after cost and you know, it's amazing how quickly it adds up. I talked to a swimming mom who was $10,000 a year and the tech swimsuits that she replaced four times a year were $600. You know, a hockey dad who once he paid for the $5,000 league fee and all the other registrations, he thought he was spending 20,000 dol. I had a mom who, with, with three kids, you know, who was in $30,000 a year in $30,000 in debt from, from gymnastics and high level basketball. You know, it's just amazing how, how once you, once you start adding all the numbers of how quickly it becomes a major expense.
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D
Is this specific to New Jersey or is this a national trend?
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C
This is a, definitely a national trend. Yeah. But I think, I do think because of obviously every. Everything's more expensive in New Jersey. Ask anybody who lives here. I think that's. We also have high level sports. On basically every sport you can find a high level travel team that might not be available in some other states, but yeah, I think this is a national problem.
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D
You called New Jersey parents that the word used was duped by organizations behind youth sports. How are they being duped?
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C
Well, I think in some cases there is. Parents want their kids to succeed and they believe that they're better than they are. And I think that's certainly part of this. And if you're, if you're a soccer, if you own a soccer company or you're a travel team, you know, you want parents to believe that their kids get to get to the next level, that their kids get to get a scholarship, that their kids get to, you know, be the star of the varsity team. And I think very few of these kids actually get that college, get that carrot, get that college scholarship or get that placement in the college. So what you're seeing now, when I was a younger, when I was coming up, there were only a few, there were only a few kids who are on these travel teams, these high level teams. Now there are, you know, hundreds of teams that are kind of capitalizing on the parents who believe that, you know, their kid has an opportunity that they want, they want to get to that level. And I think that's, that's part of the predatory side of this. Like what's the one thing we want as parents? It's to, is to get our kids a great opportunity to let them have something more than we did. And I, I think they kind of prey on that part of it.
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D
Let's pull out about 10,000ft. A lot of people can't afford what you're talking about.
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C
Sure.
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D
At all. What has this done to the makeup of the teams? Is it only going to be kids whose parents can afford this kind of Commitment.
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C
Absolutely. I think that's the heartbreaking part of it is that, yeah, it has absolutely priced out a lot of kids and families. And I talked to one mom who, you know, simply had to make the decision that she could not pay for some of these wrestling tournaments and some of these events that, you know, that her son felt like he had to participate in. And the result was the coach saying, well, gee, if you just had some more mat time, if you just had some more practice, if you were just on this club, you'd have a better chance to become, you know, to succeed at a varsity, varsity level because all of the other kids are doing it. And I think that's, that's something you hear a lot from parents. It's like they're not, some of these parents are not doing it with the scholarship involved. They're doing it just because they want their kids to have this opportunity. And for a lot of families, it's very difficult. And you certainly see kids get left behind in situations. And the other part is that this is all starting later, starting earlier too. So I think what you're seeing is, you know, the kid who's the best athlete at 8 year old is not going to be the best athlete at 16 years old. So I think you're seeing a lot of kids who, because of the early emphasis, because so many kids are funneled into one sport early, that the late bloomers are sort of left behind too. I mean, there's just a kind of a chilling effect with what happens at the youth sports at that level.
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D
Talk to Vicki from Montclair, New Jersey. Hey Vicki, thank you so much for calling, all of it. You're on the air.
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E
Thank you so much for taking my call. This is a topic very near and dear to us as we have children who play club. And one of the things that we continuously notice is the inequity of it all. And I think you were just talking a little bit about that. Where families to strive to pay for club are putting their kids in a position that the kids have these opportunities on off season with club, but when they come back to the schools, there are so many kids who don't have the opportunity to play club mostly due to finances. And you find that those kids continue to feel like they're left behind because of the inequity of not having the money.
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D
Vicki, thank you so much for calling. Did you want to weigh in?
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C
Yeah, no, I, I think that is absolutely a huge, a huge thing that's going on in a big problem. Yeah. And, and Some of the clubs, you know, the highest level clubs, the higher you go in the sport, obviously, the more expensive it becomes. So I think you're seeing that with, with, with, you know, some of these high level travel clubs. The price of it, it's not just that $2,000. You know, there are four tournaments a year where you're traveling to Dallas, to Orlando, to Utah, you know, to places where, you know, and that's part of the requirement where, you know, it's not, it's not just taking a car over one county over. You know, you're spending several thousand dollars on, on the flights alone to get, to get to some of these tournaments. And that's, that's just part of the price of admission to play on these teams. So. Yeah, I think Vicki's absolutely right. That, that's, that's become a big problem in a lot of communities that, that the people, the kids who can afford to pay that have, have a big advantage over the kids who can't.
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B
Not to mention the ability for the parents to take time off.
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C
Absolutely.
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B
Imagine if you're a single parent.
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C
Yeah. 100. I talked to, I talked to a mom about this in Montclair who had, who had said this same thing, like, look, I, I'm taking jobs to pay for this because I want my kid to have this, have this advantage. But because I'm taking these jobs, I can't get him to the games. Like, they're, they're like, I can't get him to practice. Like, there's all these other parts of it. You know, I led my story with, with a very prominent high school coach here in New New Jersey who's successful, but, you know, he's taken a bartender job to, to, to pay for field hockey and to pay for baseball fees. And, you know, one of the scenes, he is literally on his phone watching his kid play Little League while he's pouring a pint of Guinness to pay for that. And it's like, it's just sort of like this is the sacrifice that families end up making to kind of live in this world when you don't have the, to just write that check without thinking about it.
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Let's talk to Jay, who's calling from Bergen County, New Jersey. Hey, Jay, thank you so much for taking the time to call. All of it. You're on the air.
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Yeah, I accu. I echo what everybody else has said. My son has gone into baseball club baseball. They're the, you know, traveling to Ripken and to Georgia and to Alabama and to Florida and The, you know, the private hitting lessons and the pitching lessons and the, the politics is insane. You know, there are people in his school district that, you know, the coach, the varsity coach is getting kickbacks from certain, you know, coaches who, you know, coach certain players in the area. And you have to go to these certain coaches so that, so the high school varsity coach can get the kickbacks. The best situation is to find out who's really in it for the right reasons, who's going to protect your son in terms of injury prevention, you know, pay the money. And the very best is to get that committed dad who's been through it all, who's an expert, who's doing it for the love of his game, for his son or daughter, of course, and their friends. And like one of our local coaches took our tiny little town all the way to the semis of the Little League World Series. But that's a very rare event and it goes beyond that. It's all about competition. Look, there are parents, there are families paying 60 grand to get their kids into Harvard. And after they get in that company that took your 60 grand, who writes the essays for you? Kid gets him research opportunities.
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B
To your point. You're to your point. It's evolving. Another person wrote in about the same thing. Thank you for calling, Jay. We're going to have to take a quick break, but we'll have more with Steve Politi from NJ.com he wrote an article called the Shocking Costs of Youth Sports in New Jersey. We'll have more after a quick break. If you want to chime in, our phone number is 212-4339. 692. We'll be right back. You are listening to all of it on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is NewJersey.com sports columnist Steve Politi, who spent six months reporting for a new article he wrote called the Shocking Cost of Youth Sports in New Jersey. We're also hearing from you if you're a parent, how has the cost of youth sports changed recently? What are you paying for to participate? How has the rise in cost affected your kids ability to play? To play? What do you think the solution should be? Help us report this story at 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. You can call that number or you can text to us as well. Steve, let me read you a couple of texts. Soccer mom here this past year cost 4k for the club, 300 for uniform, 450 for cleats. $400 for tournament fees, 5,000 for hotels, and $1,000 for private training. None of this includes the food or T shirts at the event.
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C
The swag. Yeah, that's not. Absolutely.
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B
It's interesting people. You know, when I was a kid, schools had great programs, but there have been budget cuts. You know, Montclair, Nutley and West Orange, there have been cuts to their programs. How have cuts affected resources for young athlet who want to play but can't afford? $300 for a uniform or $4,000 for the club?
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C
Right. And that's. It's basically community to community, and it depends on where you are. Like, certainly we. There are some very rich, thriving rec programs in different parts of New Jersey that we heard from people where, you know, that this does help get the kids involved at an early age. And the focus is on, you know, playing against your neighbors, playing, learning a sport, trying a lot of different sports, finding what you love, and that's great if your has it. And there's just a lot of towns that, you know, during the Great Recession when they were making cuts, these. Some of the programs that got cut. So it's. It's a very much a piecemeal thing. And I heard from some people who are trying to bring it back in communities, but that's really hard. And you know, in some cases where the infrastructure is there, where there is. Where it's rooted in the community, that certainly helps at the, at the early age, but where it's not, it's tough.
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B
This is a really interesting text. It says we live in North Jersey and have a sporty daughter. I'm aghast at how expensive the travel leagues are, and the truth is we can't afford it. But I know in some parents minds this is related to the crisis of screen time. Get them outdoors at any cost. What's your thoughts on that?
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C
I've heard that from several parents. It's so funny, Allison. And the idea is, you know, like, if I don't do this, what is my kid gonna do? And it's gonna be Xbox. That's. That's the big fear. You know, I think in our day, the parents would kick you out of the house in the backyard. You run around, you play manhunt. They don't think that's something that's happening in a lot of these places. If it's not an organized activity for the kids to run around and play, they're not doing it. And I, and I heard that from a lot of different people that the motivation, again it's always. The parents are always. You think the motivation is always, I'm living vicariously for my kids or I want to get a Mac college scholarship. On the ground level, for a lot of parents, it's really simple. I just want my kids to do something that's not on their phone. Yeah. And I think that that's. It's a shame that you have to spend, hopefully not $10,000 for that. But I do think a lot of parents, that is one of the chief motivations.
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D
Let's go to Charles in Montvale, New Jersey. There's a different take on this. Hey, Charles, thank you so much. Oh, we just lost Charles. Charles basically said, I have this, I'm presenting this. I hope, hope this is clear. He said it's being presented as a very negative situation, but I think in many respects it's a positive as well. The coaching is much better because many of the coaches are coming from colleges and they get paid instead of volunteer parents. These coaches really know what they're doing. I understand it's limiting financially, but it's a tremendous experience to go to a different city for a tournament. That was Charles's point of view.
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C
And that is a great point. And I will say as a dad myself, that the time I get to spend with my daughter in the car driving down to some crazy tournament is time I would not have with her otherwise. I totally see that. I think people who are around these teams, it becomes their community. You fly off to Utah for a tournament, you're in the hotel lobby, someone brings back a 12 pack of beer. You know, it's like there's. There is certainly a side of this that is fun too. It's not bad. Charles is right. You got to be clear about that, that what the, what the youth sports industry will tell you is that the training and the facilities and the tactics have never been better. And that is certainly better than you're going to get with a part time dad who's setting up cones in a park. I don't think there's any question about that. But again, what are the sacrifices to get there? You know, it is sort of. Is it worth the $20,000 some people are paying? I guess if your athletes, if your kids at a high level, it might be, but I think people will, a lot of people will say they'd rather have it the old way with dad with the cones.
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D
You said there is congressional action on this. Actually, Senator Cory Booker weighed in.
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C
There is, yes. Senator Cory Booker. Chris Murphy, C.T. i think they, they are trying to get the private equity money out of this equation with a new bill they've proposed. That is what their focus is on. You know, I'm not sure what that legislation will. Will mean if it's something that will get passed. But, you know, and there are other. Obviously there are other. There are other people who are trying to tackle this problem. I talked to Cory Booker. You're looking at someone from, you know, who's. Whose life was shaped by his experiences on a little league field and youth sports. I got him on the phone. I was afraid that it was going to be. I only have 15 minutes. Senator, you need to stop talking about your high school football career now so we can get to the business. He's very passionate about this, and I think, you know, he wants to tackle it. And the private equity part of it is where he's focused. And he believes that if they get that money out of this equation, it'll be better for the landscape of youth sports.
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D
What do you think happens when we only think about youth sports as the bottom line, as private equity? We talk about third spaces so often, but if the third space is only for a certain portion of the population, it's frustrating.
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C
It is, yeah. And I think what's lost is some of the innocence of it, certainly, you know, and I think if there's people who are also talking about this, not just from money standpoint on it, but. But just the pressure on kids. And, you know, if you invest, the more you invest in it, the more you have invested in it. And I think what we're seeing is the fact that, you know, if mom and dad are spending ten grand a year, well, suddenly, yeah, your expectations are higher and your behavior is different, you know, and like I hear from a lot of coaches in high school who believe that the money in youth sports is why the toxic behavior is where it is, why there's so many coach, so many parents who don't take the. The word of the coach. You know, when a kid's benched, why there's so many officials who report just nasty comments during these games. Why is all that on the rise? You know, society hasn't changed that much. So what happened? People think it is from the fact that parents are spending so much money on it that they're more invested.
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B
Let's talk to Anne Marie, who's calling in from Westchester. Hey, Anne Marie, thanks for calling all of it. What's your take on youth sports?
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E
Hi, I'm a high school volleyball coach. I've coached for the past 18 years and I've really seen the evolution of how much big business has played into my sport. Kids feel like they have, their parents feel too that they have to spend a lot of money on trainers and tournaments all over the country just to make varsity. And you know, it's one of those things where you ask kids like, why do you do sports? They'll say, I do it to have fun, to be with my friends. And the uniform does play a little bit of role because they like to show like they're part of something. But then the big business of sports has turned it really into a moneymaker where parents have to get multiple jobs to pay for it. You see stories on, you know, Facebook groups and stuff where parents are donating plasma, working instacart, driving Uber just to pay for volleyball in the off season. And you know, this is a lifetime sport. You can play volleyball outside, you can play it on the beach, you can play it for fun. And I think that all this hyper competitiveness and extreme money making that's going on is in the end going to be a detriment to kids and a detriment to the sport. And I also just want to add that all of the specialization at a young age and paying all this investment early makes it very difficult for kids who are multi sport athletes and are more well rounded. So I just wanted to tag in. I'm also a sports mom who feels this coming down the line of having to pay for this myself.
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B
Good luck to you and thank you for being with our kids, being a coach. Let's talk to Cousteau calling in from Manhattan. Hey Cousteau, thanks for calling all of it. What's your take?
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A
All right. I have similar experiences in New York. I have a son, he's like 10 years.
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G
10 years.
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A
Put in those travels, travel programs. He's been there for like three years now. And then our average spend like 6,000 and all program traveling, the most of the game is in Westchester, stuff like that. And then the reason I put him there is he's like the school, his schools where he goes to his public school, they don't have a program, they don't have programs there. So I felt obligated to put him on something that he can get busy. And then the program is really good, I guess. Don't, don't get get me wrong, but the thing is this should be more affordable. And then I strongly believe the solution will be more through the schools. If you have this kind of programs in schools, stronger programs, you'll be better off for a long Time for me, I drive a cab for living and imagine he's been there for three years and already total spend like $18,000.
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D
Wow.
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B
Gusto. We wish your family good luck. Let's talk to Mike in Trenton. Hey, Mike, you're our last call.
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G
Oh, boy. I could go on and on, but thanks for taking the call. Great topic. I've been involved in youth soccer here in the Trenton area for a long time and I'm currently involved with a program that we have, a soccer academy, we call it, and we don't charge. And the whole idea is to make it available to kids in the city. And we're having success. Obviously we've got to raise money, but, but leaving that part of it aside, a couple things occur to me. One, and I've talked about this for a while, I think what we've really got, at least in soccer, and I suspect it now applies to most sports, certainly basketball and maybe baseball is, we've got, I call it the soccer industrial complex. And it's just kind of evolved and you know, it's obscene that somebody is paying, in my mind, $6,000 a year and 18,000. And I appreciate it's a choice that a parent makes, but I'm not sure the values there. And the other thing I would be concerned about is for those clubs that are charging a lot. They might have a couple of top level teams, but they have levels for everybody. The point being they're willing to take the money from anybody. And I think sometimes parents put unreasonable expectations in the outcomes that they're going to get that their kid is now going to be performing at a high level or is going to go on to achieve at a higher level. And I'll leave you, my last point is I think we also have a little bit of a crisis of volunteerism. So I don't know that there's a good answer, but I would like to think in the end economics will come into play here and folks just decide, you know what, that's not worth it. And the last point, sorry. Unfortunately, we're also seeing kids who are told by their academy clubs that they can't play for their high school teams. And that's just tragic in my mind. So thanks for the top topic.
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B
Yeah, appreciate all your points, Mike. Those were great points to make. Steve, as we wrap up this segment, is there anything else that you want our audience to think about or to consider that I didn't get to?
- [28:24]
C
Well, first of all, if anybody's selling plasma out there to pay for you sports, please call me, I would like to get that story. But in all seriousness, I think there's been so many good points made here. You know, the early specialization is something that is become becoming a big trend, a big problem. I think people, you know, you're, if you force a kid into a sport too soon without giving him or her opportunities to kind of learn what they love, I think that's, that, that's a, that's really a problem that you're going to have as a parent. And I think that's the one thing one mom told me, like, your kid has to lead this. Your kid has to be the one who's deciding how much he or she wants to play, where she wants to play. You know, if you're not listening to what your kid is saying in that, in that space, I think you're probably doing it wrong. And that's a good place to start. Let the kids play. Let the kids decide how much to do. Let them be the ones who, you know, dictate this for your family.
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B
The name of the piece is the Shocking Cost of Youth Sports in New Jersey is by NJ.com sports columnist Steve Politi. Thank you so much for sharing your reporting with us.
- [29:32]
C
Allison, it was my pleasure. Thank you.
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D
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