Your Favorite Local Diner

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Your Favorite Local Diner"

Podcast: All Of It with Alison Stewart (WNYC)
Episode Date: February 15, 2024

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Overview

In this lively episode, host Alison Stewart and her guest, New York Times food editor Nikita Richardson, celebrate the beloved institution of the diner—especially as it exists in New York City and New Jersey. Listeners call in to share memories, favorite spots, and discuss what makes diners such a powerful symbol of community, nostalgia, and culinary comfort. The conversation explores classic and evolving diner culture, highlights listener stories, political intersections (especially in Jersey), and the unique, enduring traits that make diners both accessible and iconic.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Ubiquity and Charm of Diners

• Opening Defining Moment (01:52):
  • Alison Stewart: “There’s a certain mystique around diners … a nostalgia factor, too, a casual and timeless space where the eternal question is only ever ‘What can I get you?’”
• Nikita Richardson sets the scene with Suzanne Vega’s “Tom’s Diner” lyrics, underlining the diner as a poetic urban space.

What Makes a Diner Special?

• Diners as the Everyman’s Restaurant (05:30):
  • Nikita: “The menu is so extensive that there’s something for literally anyone who walks in there... There’s just as much fun, if not more fun, in a diner than in a fancy restaurant. The hospitality, the warmth, the camaraderie you feel with your fellow diners makes it so much fun.”
  • Michelin-star dining is contrasted with the approachable, comforting, and democratic quality of diners.
• Debate—Is Waffle House a Diner? (06:22–07:35):
  • Hilarious audio from the Kelsey brothers’ podcast aired to illustrate how contentious and silly diner definitions can be.

Listener Stories: Beloved Local Diners

• Court Square Diner, Long Island City (08:56–10:56):

  • Zoe: “They never closed a single day, not even during the pandemic... All the waiters and waitresses know you... Even as a single person, they don’t relegate you to Siberia... They treat the people in this neighborhood like gold.”
  • The importance of staff familiarity and community support is emphasized.

• Westway Diner, Hell’s Kitchen (11:04–12:19):

  • Stephen: Recounts seeing stand-up legends and comics after gigs—the “Seinfeld” diner experience in real life.
  • Nikita: “When a diner has proximity to a special place, it always attracts that loyalty... That exemplifies diner culture.”

• Upper East Side Listener (14:01–14:43):

  • “A diner was a kin to a greasy spoon... I don’t care if it’s Gracie Muse, you don’t spend $25 on two eggs and hash browns. It just makes me so mad.”
  • Sparks discussion of what defines a “real” diner, especially in the era of gentrification and menu inflation.

The Waitstaff: Crucial to Diner Appeal

• Classic Banter and East Coast Attitude (15:16–16:10):
  • Listener relishes the Philadelphia diner tradition of being asked, “Can I get you some coffee, hun?”
  • Nikita: “Some could argue that [the waitstaff] is 90% of it... The diner’s one of the last places where if you get brusque service, you can’t be mad about it.”

The Allure of 24/7: Night Owls, Writers, Parents

• Nikita notes that late-night diners are coming back post-pandemic, restoring a classic “4 A.M. to 6 A.M. city” rhythm (13:13–13:57).
• Both Alison and callers discuss diners as invaluable havens for early-rising parents and night-shift workers (27:55–28:39).

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Jersey Diner Culture: Over-the-Top and Quintessentially Local

Jersey Diners: Bigger, Louder, Iconic

• Nancy Solomon, WNYC NJ Editor (17:56–19:11):
  • “They’re over the top in every way... everything, huge portions... every single one has its own unique character. They serve breakfast all day... very car-friendly, super easy for car culture.”
• Origin Story & Industrial Claim (19:11–19:52):
  • New Jersey claims the invention of the prefab diner, supplying a third of the nation’s diners from the 1920s–80s.

Diners & Jersey Politics

• Governor Phil Murphy (20:16–21:40):
  • “On the short list of things that you can experience in Jersey and literally nowhere else are diners... every single diner has its own unique character... and I love them.”
  • “A disproportionate amount of [early campaign] meetings were held in diners... I had an almost super-sized diner experience.”
• Political and Mob History (21:48–23:41):
  • Nancy Solomon: Recalls both power deals and infamy—diner meetings shaping Senate leadership and even “mob history” stories.
  • “There’s always been political deals made around the diner table.”

Listener Shout-Outs & Special Stories

• Summit Diner: An old classic “without a parking lot” (24:07).
• Blairstown Diner: Celebrated in “Friday the 13th,” now a pilgrimage site for horror fans (30:16).
• Tibbet Diner: Notable for fresh fish caught by the owner (25:39).
• Chit Chat Diner (West Orange): Opened doors to stranded school kids during a snowstorm (27:28).

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Modern & “Postmodern” Diners

• New Generations and New Dining (25:50–27:28):
  • Nikita: “A diner can be anything... For these newer places like Golden Diner, they blend heritage cooking styles with the classic diner format. Even if it’s pricey, it’s a way that its legacy is going on because diners are actually still closing at a relatively rapid clip.”
  • Social media accounts like @Dinersofnyc preserve and promote legacy places.

What Would Your Own Diner Be?

• Nikita (31:04): “I would pull back on the eggs... maximize the waffles. I just think waffles are the best thing ever... I think it would be Waffle House North.”
• Alison’s tip: “Pancakes for the table!” (31:40)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the meaning of diners:
  • “There is something very... the hospitality, the warmth of it, the kind of camaraderie you feel with your fellow diners—I think is what makes it so much fun.” – Nikita Richardson (05:59)
• On diner staff knowing you:
  • “They even know how you take your coffee... so you don’t even have to ask.” – Zoe, Court Square Diner (10:30)
• On diner culture as political theater:
  • “A disproportionate amount of [political] meetings were held in diners, usually in the community where the person lived...” – Governor Phil Murphy (21:00)
• On brusque service:
  • “The diner’s one of the last places where if you get brusque service, you can’t be mad about it. They have things to do. There’s a lot of people. You didn’t come here for them to worship your feet.” – Nikita Richardson (15:39)
• On the evolution of diners:
  • “A diner can be anything.” – Nikita Richardson (25:49)

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Timeline & Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:32] “Tom’s Diner” poetry: Framing the magic of diners
• [05:18]–[06:22] What draws people to diners, audience engagement on “everyman” appeal
• [06:22]–[07:35] Is Waffle House a diner? Kelsey brothers debate
• [08:56]–[10:56] Zoe (LIC): The Greek 24/7 diner, community, and perfect coffee
• [11:04]–[12:19] Stephen (Queens): Comedy legends at Westway Diner, diner as creative hub
• [13:13]–[13:57] Post-pandemic, NYC’s late-night diner comeback
• [14:01]–[14:43] Upper East Side caller: “A diner was a kin to a greasy spoon...”
• [17:52]–[19:11] Nancy Solomon: The Jersey diner is “over the top in every way”
• [20:16]–[21:40] Governor Murphy: Diners, politics, and individuality
• [21:48]–[23:41] Nancy Solomon: Diner deals and mob tales
• [25:50]–[27:28] Nikita: The postmodern diner, Golden Diner’s cultural blending
• [31:04]–[32:34] Dream diners: Maximizing waffles and “pancakes for the table”
• [32:46] Closing thanks and promise to revisit the topic

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Conclusion

This episode is a warm and nostalgic tribute to the local diner—its role as a gathering place, a haven for all, and its evolving place in city life. Through stories and interviews, Alison Stewart, Nikita Richardson, Nancy Solomon, and a passionate group of callers illuminate the diner’s unique place in New York and New Jersey culture—and why its spirit endures even amid change. Whether you’re there for a bottomless coffee, a patty melt, or a bit of hometown comfort, diners remain a beloved intersection of food, community, and local lore.

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Transcript

[Caller/Listener]

Listener support WNYC Studios.

[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it. I'm Alison Stewart, live from the WNYC studios in soho. Thank you for sharing part of your day with us. I'm really grateful you're here. And guess what, Nikita. I'm tapping. You ready My teabag today, right on my mug. It says, gratitude leads to love.

[Nikita Richardson]

Aw.

[Alison Stewart]

Here's to that.

[Nikita Richardson]

Valentine's Day is every day.

[Alison Stewart]

On today's show, we consider some history. For our Black History Month segment on black New Yorkers who made an impact on our city, we'll speak with the curators of an exhibit at the New York Historical Society that describes how two black athletes helped make the New York City Marathon what it is today. Then we'll head out to Long island with a look at the Gilded Age and how it unfolded in the tony mansions on the Gold Coast. And we'll continue our launch of the this year's Public Song Project with musician Valerie June. Plus learning about how sound recording changed in the 1920s. That's the plan. But let's get this hour started with a discussion about diners.

[Nikita Richardson]

I am sitting in the morning at the diner on the corner. I am waiting at the counter for the man to pour the coffee, and he feels it only halfway. And before I even argue, he is looking out the window at somebody coming in.

[Alison Stewart]

There's a certain mystique around diners. There are the sprawling menus that account for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and if you liked almost any time of the day, part of it might be the decor, which often features geometric tile floors, red bar stools, vinyl booths, tableside jukeboxes, and those ceramic containers with all types of sweeteners for your coffees. Ah, heck, even one of the best Barry Levinson movies takes place in one.

[Governor Phil Murphy]

There's a little place where people gather.

[Nikita Richardson]

To enjoy the banquet of life. I get a date with Carol Heathrow. She was death.

[Caller/Listener]

It's the diner, and what they really.

[Nikita Richardson]

Want most isn't on the menu.

[Alison Stewart]

Perhaps the original New York City third space. You can find yourself at a diner, capping off a night of partying or getting some alone time with breakfast before work. There's a nostalgia factor, too, a casual and timeless space where the eternal question is only ever what can I get you listeners? Our guiding questions for this conversation are what does a diner mean to you? And more practically, what are your favorite ones in the area? 212-433-966-922-12433. WNYC what's your go to diner? What's your order 212-433-969-2212, wnyc. You may call in. Join us on the air. You can text to us at that number as well. And for those of you in Jersey, what makes diner culture in Jersey so special or unique? Help us understand Jersey diners. What role do they play in local business or politics? We are taking your meditations and recommendations about diners. 212-432-12433, WNYC. Quick reminder, don't call us if you're driving.

[Nikita Richardson]

That's all.

[Alison Stewart]

That's all I gotta say. You can pull over. We'd love to hear from you. Pull over. It's just, it's for safety, folks. No driving and calling. But definitely do call in 212-433-WNYC. Joining us now to help take those calls and talk with us about the allure of diner culture, we have New York Times food editor Nikita Richardson, who writes the where to Eat newsletter. Earlier this month, she published one headlined lemon Ricotta Pancakes, Patty Melts and more Diner. Old school New York diners are dwindling, but the holdouts are still churning out classics from mile long menus. Thanks for coming to the studio, Nikita.

[Nikita Richardson]

So happy to be here.

[Alison Stewart]

All right, so you're, you came to New York. You've been in New York for a long time. When you first came to New York, though, what were your impressions of New York City diners?

[Nikita Richardson]

I, you know, honestly, I was coming from the perspective of Waffle House, where I'm from the South. I'm from Georgia for listeners who don't know. But I've been here since about 2012. And, and so my expectation is that which is it's funny cause it's a diner chain, but I feel like New York, the chains aren't really, it's not really about chains. It's about places that have been truly on that corner forever. I used to go out and Bushwick a lot. And when I first moved here, very girls of me. And then we would always end up the next morning at Tina's Place, which is at the corner of Morgan and Flushing, which is like I think it's well over 80 years old. It's been there forever. It's only open for a few hours during the day. And we're just sitting there and just eat, you know, like all the alcohol, soaking food, toast, eggs, bacon. You know, the only way to recover from a night out sometimes is to go into a diner.

[Alison Stewart]

You cover restaurants, you go to a lot of very lovely Meals, Nice meals. Michelin stars aren't really what people are excited about when they talk about diners. What makes the experience of eating at a diner desirable?

[Nikita Richardson]

I think that the diner is kind of like the everyman restaurant, right? Like, the menu is so extensive that there's something for literally anyone who walks in there. Whatever you're. Whatever you're craving, you know, And I feel like it is that space that is. There is no you. Like, if you go to a Michelin star restaurant, you'll look at the menus and you're like, what's a confit? What's. What is yuzu even?

[Alison Stewart]

Why is there foam?

[Nikita Richardson]

Yeah, but we all know what a pancake is, right? So, and. And that is. And there's just. I get. I have just as much fun, if not more fun in a diner than in a fancy restaurant. You know what I mean? Like, I think there's something very. The hospitality, the warmth of it, the kind of camaraderie, Camaraderie you feel with your fellow diner diners, I think is. Makes it so much fun.

[Alison Stewart]

Now, you mentioned Waffle House. So before anybody gets mad and gets in, whether Waffle House is or isn't a diner, it is. Okay. Football stars, the Kelsey brothers, Travis and Jason, have had this argument on their podcast.

[Nikita Richardson]

So let's listen.

[Alison Stewart]

This is Jason.

[Nikita Richardson]

First.

[Jason (from Kelsey brothers podcast)]

I would not classify it as a diner. I would classify it as a Waffle House. It's a. It's. It's in the. The breakfast bakery. Bakery. I would definitely not call it a bakery. What are you talking about?

[Nikita Richardson]

What are you calling it? Fast food. And it's not fast food.

[Jason (from Kelsey brothers podcast)]

It's.

[Nikita Richardson]

It's a diner.

[Jason (from Kelsey brothers podcast)]

It's not a diner.

[Nikita Richardson]

It's a 247 diner.

[Jason (from Kelsey brothers podcast)]

It's not a diner. Have you ever been to a diner? Like an actual diner? It's not a diner.

[Nikita Richardson]

It looks exactly like it.

[Jason (from Kelsey brothers podcast)]

You just get shakes. A diner.

[Caller/Listener]

Burgers at a diner.

[Jason (from Kelsey brothers podcast)]

Yeah, it's. It's not a diner. Diners are unique. Like, you're at. You're at Marty's Diner. You're at. You don't go to, like, it's not like, listen, I'm all for the Waffle House, but I enjoy the fact that they make it. I think that they. Do you think they do it on purpose? They make it look like kind of crappy. I think that's part of the draw. Like, if you went there and it's like.

[Alison Stewart]

So they go on and on. This means Taylor Swift's going to a diner in case you hadn't figured that out from Travis. What's your go to order at a diner, Nikita?

[Nikita Richardson]

I always, when I go to a Waffle House, I'm going to. Well, if it's Waffle House, it's going to be the double hash browns, smothered, which means with cheese on it for those who are not in the know. But honestly, and this is what kind of inspired this whole newsletter is like, if I'm overwhelmed, I'm going to go for a patty melt. And that same week that the, that newsletter about diners came out, our restaurant critic, the Times restaurant critic Pete Wells, had written an entire ode to the patty melt, that rosette. Like, I think I was looking at the article right before this. 700 comments, like, which is very high for us. Like, it just like inspired so much conversation because people feel very strongly about the patty melt. If you don't know what a patty melt is, it's essentially a burger, but it's between two slices of toast. It has cheese on it, Swiss, and it has caramelized onions. It is a perfect thing to eat at a diner. It's, it's, it's breakfast, it's lunch, it's dinner, it's everything.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest, Nikita Richardson, editor for the New York Times food section. She writes the where to Eat newsletter. We are talking about diners. Our phone lines are full. Let's talk to some listeners. Nikita, Ingrid from Sayreville, New Jersey. Hi, Ingrid. Oh, we just lost Ingrid. Oh, how about Zoe from Long Island City? Zoe, are you there?

[Caller/Listener]

I am. And I would like to tell you about the Court Square Diner in Long Island City, right at the foot of the 7 train.

[Nikita Richardson]

I know that diner.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah.

[Nikita Richardson]

So shiny.

[Caller/Listener]

I've been going there for 40 years and the Kanellis brothers have owned it for most of that. So it's a real Greek 247 diner. They never closed a single day, not even during the pandemic. You know, they would do takeout. And even during Sandy, they stayed open because they were afraid that something might happen to the building. So they stayed all night. And they treat the people in this neighborhood like gold. All the waiters and waitresses know you. They all work there for years. You know, there's not a big turnover. And even as a single person, you can go in there and they don't relegate you to Siberia. You know, if I come in there, if there's a booth open, they know I love a booth and they give me a booth. And they're just so good to everybody. And the place is Consistently being cleaned, like, you know, round the clock. You never sit down to a dirty table, ever.

[Nikita Richardson]

What's your go to order?

[Caller/Listener]

It's just fabulous. I like, I love going there especially for brunch on the weekend because I have a work studio in the neighborhood as well. And one of my friends comes in to work in her studio. So we'll meet for brunch and I'll have like an avocado omelette with well done potatoes and whole wheat, you know, toast and coffee, you know, bottomless cup. And they, the thing is that they even know how you take your coffee.

[Nikita Richardson]

Awesome.

[Caller/Listener]

You know, like, like so you don't even have to ask. You'll say, oh, they know that you take half and half, for instance. And the brothers are huge supporters of the arts in this neighborhood. Nine years in a row, they were our biggest supporters for our arts open. They gave more than Silver cup or Astoria Studios or anybody else. And it's because the artists have always supported the diner, even when it was truckers and hookers.

[Nikita Richardson]

Thanks.

[Alison Stewart]

Didn't see that one coming. Love that right turn it took. Stephen's calling in from Queens. Hi, Steven.

[Caller/Listener]

Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call. As does the one. I go to one every now and then. It's on 34th street, the starlight. It's one of my favorites. I love it. But the one, I guess from my memories down through the years, I. I told this screener earlier was the Westway Diner, which is on 43rd, between 43rd and 44th. Because years ago, the improvisation, the improv used to be on 44th Street. And all the comics would do sets there and then haul it over to the Westway Diner. Just like in the tv, you know, in Seinfeld.

Yeah.

And you. I can remember being in there. There was Dom Herrera, Brett Butler, Robin Williams. One night. I mean, just the different people who would be there and the comics would be at their table, laugh and joke back and forth. It was something, it's still a memory that I, you know, I just can't shake.

[Nikita Richardson]

When a diner has proximity to a place, a special place like that, I think that is kind of. And it always attracts that loyalty.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah.

[Nikita Richardson]

You know what I mean? People will go there over and over and over again. And I think like that's a. That kind of like exemplifies the diner culture.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah. And I think for that one Westway Diner, as well as Red Flame Diner over 5th and 45th.

[Nancy Solomon]

6Th.

[Alison Stewart]

If you're going to the theater, there's something for everybody. Like you don't have to worry about, like, can this person eat that? Can that person? People can always find something to eat.

[Nikita Richardson]

The eternal question, where to eat before a show in New York City? It's the email I get every day.

[Alison Stewart]

We get Midnight Express, Upper east side, from Kelsey. We've got the Nevada Diner in Bloomfield, New Jersey. The cheesecake is to die for. Another text says, no other country has diners. The most important meal is breakfast. Good home fries are essential. Shout out to Chelsea Square Diner. Best matzo ball soup and spinach pie in the city. 24 7. There's something about the 24 7.

[Nikita Richardson]

I had a question actually about that. Like, there was a guy who's like, I'm in grad school. Sometimes I'm up until 3am writing a paper. I don't want to do my apartment. Where should I go? And at the time I said, kellogg's Diner, which is in Williamsburg, is now shuttered, but is going to open with a fancy chef again. But the, that's, that was a 24 hour space. And, you know, when the pandemic happened, we lost a lot of our late night spaces. So, like, late night is only just now crawling back. Like. And this used to be a 4am to 6, like 6am City, right? We all chilled out a lot. But the diner has. That's kind of been a huge role of. It is like, you know, any time of day you're getting off from the hospital at 4am you can go to a diner. You know what I mean?

[Alison Stewart]

So talk to Allison from the Upper east side. Hi, Allison.

[Caller/Listener]

Hey, Allison. I love this show. You guys put such a smile on my face. I've been on the Upper east side for 50 years.

[Nikita Richardson]

Awesome.

[Caller/Listener]

And I will tell you what a diner is not. And I don't think young kids know what a diner is these days. It is not the green kitchen where you get a cosmo or margarita or, you know, some kind of, you know, effing, you know, fancy meal. A diner was a kid to a greasy spoon. And, you know, I think that we don't have them on the Upper east side anymore because I don't care if it's Gracie Muse, you don't spend $25 on two eggs and hash browns. It's just, it makes me so mad. But I love this segment. I might have to go out of the Upper east side.

[Nikita Richardson]

You know where you should go. And I mean, you might, you might deign to go here because it does have espresso martinis. But the Manhattan diner on the Upper west side which is one of the diners I talked about, has an amazing diner menu. And yes, it has fancy cocktails, but the prices are very decent. It's like the menu is. I have never seen a wider menu of options. Like you can get pasta at this diner. It's a little. It's like. But they do have all the greasy spoon specials that you really crave. Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

Live in Brooklyn, but grew up in Philly, which is also diner Haven. Lots of great memories of going to our neighborhood Diner at 6 in Gerard with my dad. But my favorite memory is being at a South Philly diner with west coast cousins who could not get over the waitress saying in her Philly accent, can I get you some coffee, hun? Part of the waitstaff is part of the. That is the lure and the love.

[Nikita Richardson]

Some could argue that it's 90% of it. Like it is that, you know, honestly, I think that the diner's one of the last places where if you get brusque service, you can't be mad about it. They have things to do. There's a lot of people here. You know what I mean? You didn't come here for them to worship your feet. You came to get a very decent pile of waffles and a coffee. So I think that that is so endearing to have your west coast cousins be like, oh my God, coffee. East coast diner culture.

[Alison Stewart]

All right, you've mentioned Tina's Place, Manhattan Diner. You mentioned any other New York City diners you want to get to before we take a break and then come back with Jersey?

[Nikita Richardson]

Yes. My final one that I feature is Jackson Hole Diner. And this is a diner in right by LaGuardia Airport. If you've been down the BQE, it's hard to miss. They have a neon airplane sign. And I found myself in there a few like last year, almost, almost a year ago. And it's just like a very charming place. It's looks like it's out of a movie and it was in fact featured in Goodfellas.

[Alison Stewart]

We're discussing diner culture with Nikita Richardson, editor for New York Times food section. She also writes the where to Eat newsletter. We'll take more of your calls about your favorite diners. We'll head to my home state of New Jersey to discuss the specifics of Jersey diner culture After a quick break. This is all of it. This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is Nikita Richardson, editor for the New York Times food section. She writes the where to Eat newsletter. One of her recent Newsletters was all about diners. We're getting so many call outs for, like, the Bus Stop Diner in West Harlem. I love the Hollywood Diner and sort of Flatiron Union squarish area. We are getting questions about. Oh, no, we got Hector's Diner and Cafe at 44 Little West 12th Street. Oh, that is a classic, right near the Whitney. But I must say, for this conversation, we need to head to the Garden State, which maybe should be called the Diner State. Nancy Solomon, senior reporter and editor covering New Jersey, is joining us to talk about New Jersey diner culture. Hi, Nancy.

[Nancy Solomon]

Hi, Alison.

[Alison Stewart]

What is unique about Jersey diner culture?

[Nancy Solomon]

Well, what could be more Jersey than a diner? I mean, it's just, you know, they're over the top in every way, especially the diners in Jersey. I mean, for one thing, first of all, there are more diners in Jersey than anywhere else. I googled it. There are 500, apparently or approximately. And then they're just so over the top in every way. You know, crazy design elements, crazy long menus that include everything, huge portions. And as was earlier mentioned, I just love it when the waitress calls me hun. And diners, you know, generally, not just in Jersey, they serve breakfast all day. That's a plus. They're family friendly and, you know, so a lot of folks move to Jersey to raise their kids and diners work for that. And they're very. In New Jersey, they're very car friendly. I mean, I. I was trying to think if I could think of a single diner that doesn't have a parking lot, and I can't. I'm sure now someone's going to call. I mean, I'm sure there is one. But generally they have parking lots, so super easy for car culture. So, yeah, it's, it's really, it's all of it.

[Alison Stewart]

There you go. Thanks for dropping the name of the show. There you go. Two words. We also have to say disco fries. Very important to say disco fries when you're talking about Jersey and diners. So our producer, Kate Hines, a proud Jersey native, wants to make sure that we know that Jerseyans invented the diner. According to New Jersey Spotlight, in 1913, Bayonne's Jerry O' Mahoney established the first stationary lunch wagon and then started building prefab diners that could be shipped across the country. And apparently New Jersey manufactured one third of the Nation's diners from 1920s to the 1980s. This is such an important topic, Nancy, that I know you asked the governor of New Jersey about it. Nancy, you're there I did, I did.

[Nancy Solomon]

I thought you were going to play the tape.

[Alison Stewart]

No, I was going to have you throw to the tape.

[Nancy Solomon]

Yes, I, I, I knew you folks were planning the segment, so one of your producers asked me to ask him and so I did. I don't have in front of me what, what kind of tape you pulled, but I did ask him about it.

[Alison Stewart]

You asked his opinion on Jersey diners? Let's hear first what he had to say.

[Governor Phil Murphy]

On the short list of things that you can experience in Jersey and literally nowhere else are diners. There's just no question about it. And the other great thing is every single diner has its own unique character. So we, we talk about Taylor ham, pork roll, the diner experience as a general matter, which is true. The sort of a commonality, common spirit. But having said that, each and every one of them is their own unique experience and I love them.

[Alison Stewart]

That is Governor Murphy on diners. Diners have a political element to them, especially for Jersey. You asked the governor about this. Let's listen. Want to let. There's a little bit of music underneath the governor's answer, because this was at the end of the show.

[Governor Phil Murphy]

I have meetings with diners all the time. I go to diners with my family regularly. I had a disproportionate amount of diner time when I was first introducing myself around the state politically. So this would be sort of 2014 to 2016, when I was literally driving around meeting people. A disproportionate amount of those meetings were held in diners, usually in the community where the person lived or where their office was. And while I had always gone to diners, I had a sort of almost super sized diner experience there for several years. And I still love them.

[Alison Stewart]

Nancy, from your experience covering Jersey politics, what have you observed about the role of the diner in Jersey business and political dealings?

[Nancy Solomon]

Yeah, I mean, I think it goes back to the idea of how easy it is to get in and out. You know, they're usually on some of the state's most busiest roads. There's parking lots. So they are meeting places. And there's always been political deals made around the diner table. I have always loved the existence of the Westfield Five. It was five, five Republicans who used to meet at the Westfield Diner. And it's not that there were like there was anything untoward that happened. It was just like a real power base back when Republicans were more relevant in New Jersey than they are now, so. And then there was the decision among Democratic power brokers in 2021. Phil Murphy was at the table deciding on who would be the president of the New Jersey State Senate. That was purposely, I believe, made public. It was sort of meant to be like a secret meeting. But they, they leaked it because they wanted to show that they were doing it in a Jersey diner. So I thought that was pretty funny, you know. And let me just say, I mean, there's also a very interesting mob history to diners in New Jersey. I mean, Frank Lagana was shot in the head outside the Seville diner in East Brunswick, which he co owned. He was a mobster. There was the decomposed body of a mobster found in the trunk of a car that was parked for weeks undetected at the Huck Finn diner in Union, which is one of my favorites by the way. And more recently, the political operative Sean Cattle, now in federal prison, paid off a hitman at a diner in New Jersey to murder another politically connected guy who lived in Jersey City. So there's also that rich mob history.

[Nikita Richardson]

Nancy, I think you killed me with.

[Alison Stewart]

You just took Nikita out with Headless WNYC's Nancy Solomon. Bringing the good times. Nancy, thank you for calling in. Really appreciate it. And thank you for asking the governor. That was great of you. Hey all of it crew, the TikTok Diner in Clifton, New Jersey is a favorite of the Rolling Stones when they are in town. New York Times article said it a few years ago. We've got some more Jersey folks on the line. Jill from Warren. Hi Jill.

[Caller/Listener]

Hi. The Summit Diner in Summit, New Jersey doesn't have a parking lot and is one of the very, very old classic diners like they used to ship all over the US and it's still got the wooden booths and the round circular small stools and is great for breakfast.

[Alison Stewart]

Jill, thanks for calling in. Mark is calling from the Bronx. Hi Mark.

[Caller/Listener]

Hi. Many years ago I was intrigued by the diner in the West Village called the Terminal Diner, which I thought was an interesting name. And I wrote a play, a one act play that was performed I guess about 40 years ago. And as we speak I'm working on a new version of it and it's called the Terminal Diner and it's about a family that takes over an abandoned dining car and turns it into a diner and everything that goes on. And I would like to recommend one diner in the Bronx which is near Riverdale but down the hill and it's called the Tibetan Diner. T I V V E T and it's the only diner I found that has a full menu of fish. Fresh caught fish.

[Alison Stewart]

Wow.

[Caller/Listener]

And it turns out that the owner is a fisherman because when I asked him if the fish was fresh, he said, yeah, I caught it this morning, don't worry.

[Alison Stewart]

I was about to say fish and diner. I don't always want to put those two things together. No offense to anybody.

[Nikita Richardson]

A diner can be anything.

[Alison Stewart]

A diner can be anything. There you go. Nikita, when you're thinking, you obviously go to all kinds of restaurants how, and I don't mean to throw you a curve here, what do you think about the sort of postmodern diners, new diners that pop up, that have the vibe of an old diner but are clearly.

[Nikita Richardson]

Modern, but as our friend on the Upper East, I would say are too expensive to count as diners. I mean, I think that what it's coming from the way that like, I think a lot of people have a childhood love of the diner. A diner has always been a safe space to be a kid and like, you know what I mean? And so I think that as those people have grown up, they want to create diners, but they've also worked at like very nice restaurants. I've mentioned Golden Diner. That's down. And I guess what we call would call Chinatown Two Bridges. And the chef there, Sam, he's Chinese, so it's like there's diner culture, but he puts a lot of his Chinese heritage into the food. And I think that's super special. And even if it's pricey, I'm like, I'm glad this exists because it is, it represents kind of where the diner as we know it, it's a way that its legacy is going on because diners are actually still closing at a relatively rapid clip. Everyone should follow the Instagram Diners of nyc, which features all of these diners from all over the place. But I think that those diners have a place and they are still carrying on that feeling of, hey, this is just a informal place. We're all the same in this spot. And as long as that is being carried, then I think that both can coexist.

[Alison Stewart]

The Chit Chat diner in West Orange is on a hill. And five years ago, when school buses could not make it to their destinations because of a freak snowstorm, the owners welcomed in school buses full of kids and many of them stayed overnight. The kids loved it. The 24 hour service is something. That's from Maria from New Jersey texted us.

[Nikita Richardson]

It's adorable.

[Alison Stewart]

That is great story. Thanks so much for calling in. Let's talk to Bob on Line 6 calling in from Manhattan, but he's got a Connecticut story. Hi, Bob.

[Caller/Listener]

Yes, yes, the shout out to the Sherwood Diner in Westport, Connecticut. It's right off 95, the Sherwood island exit, and it's on Route 1. We have a tiny house up in Westport in the summertime and could just get packed with people. They're sleeping everywhere. And my daughter was like one and one and a half. And she would wake up at five, five thirty in the morning. I just pick her up, put her in the car seat. We'd drive to the Sherwood Diner, and the waitresses were just so welcoming. And it was some of the best mornings of my life. I would just sit in there until, you know, time people were waking up and they were, they were just so nice. And Connecticut is full of diners. Almost every little town has a diner of sorts. So anyway, I think it's competition for New Jersey.

[Alison Stewart]

Bob, I'm with you. When I. When about the diners? When you have a kid, a newborn, I used to stick my kid in the car seat, take him over to the Good Stuff Diner, sit them on the, on the bank. It's a, it's a wonderful thing for a parent at 5am in the morning that they have someplace to go. Talk to Mary on line four. Hi, Mary. Hi, Mary, are you there?

[Caller/Listener]

Hi. Yes, hi. I was going to. I wanted to mention a diner that has probably been closed for a number of years, but the Frontier Diner, it was on 3rd Avenue in the high 30s, low 40s. And I, I mean, the location, you know, was so, was great for people who worked in Midtown. But I also, it really stuck in my mind because I was, I was bringing a French family of professional professors, plus two teenagers. Sorry about that. Around New York. And so that, you know, it was a convenient location. They were staying nearby.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, I think we've lost Mary. Mary, I take care of your cough, Mary. Let's talk to Bob from Blairstown, New Jersey. Hey, Bob, thanks for calling in. You have a craze. Well, I'll let you tell your story. Go for it.

[Caller/Listener]

I am from. I am from Blairstown, New Jersey, and I'm calling about the Blairstown Diner. Now, this diner was featured in the original movie of Friday the 13th. It's still around. And every Friday the 13th, people from all over the country come to the diner and Blastown dressed as different characters from all the Jason movies. It's the Blast Town's claim to fame. The Blast Town Diner on Friday the 13th.

[Alison Stewart]

Bob, thank you for calling in. I love a little diner trivia.

[Nikita Richardson]

I'm flagged that as a Story for the time.

[Alison Stewart]

There you go. Nikia, let's say you were gonna open your own diner. Money's not a problem. What would you want the atmosphere to be? Would you stick with the classic gigantic menu? Would you keep it simple?

[Nikita Richardson]

I, you know, honestly, my only thing would be I would pull back on the eggs. I'm not a big egg person.

[Caller/Listener]

Okay.

[Nikita Richardson]

I love a scrambled egg. Like, I'm not gonna lie. And, and maximize the waffles. I. This is not just a Waffle House thing. I just think that waffles are the best thing ever. Like chocolate buckwheat waffles. And they're, like, primed for adding. Like, they have the little grid so they hold syrup extremely well. I think it would be Waffle House North. I think I just wanted Waffle House in New York. I think that' I'd like to open a franchise up here.

[Alison Stewart]

I think that my tip is pancakes for the table. Whenever you go out with a bunch of people, pancakes for the table.

[Nikita Richardson]

You need to run to Tom's Restaurant. So this is, this is another place I featured Tom's Restaurant. It's in Prospect Heights, kind of very close to the Brooklyn Museum. And that restaurant's been around ages. I think it's also something in the 80s or 90s. And it's not to be confused with the Tom's Restaurant that's in near Columbia, which is the one that inspired Tom's Diner by Suzanne Vega. This one is completely different, but they have a massive menu of pancakes, like as many. Whatever your imagination can think of. It has that pancake on it, and they are these, they're, they're, they're not even round. They're like, kind of like oblong. And it's fine because they're so good that you don't really need them to be perfectly round.

[Alison Stewart]

Everybody who called in, we could do this again. We may have to do this again.

[Nikita Richardson]

I would come back.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah. Thank you to everybody who called in, those who got on and those who didn't. And thanks to everybody who texted as well.

[Nikita Richardson]

Are you ready to get spicy? These Doritos Golden Sriracha aren't that spicy. Maybe it's time to turn up the heat or turn it down. It's time for something that's not too spicy. Try Doritos Golden Sriracha. Spicy but not too spicy. This is Ira Flato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, the science Friday team has been reporting high quality science and technology news, making science fun for curious people by covering everything from the outer reaches of space to the rapidly changing world of AI, to the tiniest microbes in our bodies. Audiences trust our show because they know we're driven by a mission to inform and serve listeners first and foremost with important news they won't get anywhere else. And our sponsors benefit from that halo effect. For more information on becoming a sponsor, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.