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- [00:00]
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- [01:00]
Alison Stewart
This is all of it on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. It's estimated that there are about 120,000 blocks in New York City. We know from experience in our own neighborhoods that each block in New York is its own mini ecosystem, its own world within the larger city. Each block probably has some version of the dry cleaner and then the bodega on the corner and the people that you come to know as your neighbors. And perhaps that also has that one eccentric character who everyone knows and might recognize as the mayor of the block. Today we want to celebrate the unique character of New York City blocks. And we want you to take us on a tour of your block and what makes it special with me now for this conversation is one person who has walked every New York block. Matt Green spent 12 years walking every city in the city, 10,000 miles worth for a project he called I'm just walking. There's a documentary from 2018 that followed Matt as he walked. It's called the World before your Feet, available on video on demand. And there's a free screening of the film tomorrow at the Museum of the Moving Image in Queens. More on that later. Matt, welcome back to wnyc.
- [02:08]
Matt Green
Thank you for having me. It's good to be here.
- [02:09]
Alison Stewart
So why did you originally become interested in walking all of New York?
- [02:14]
Matt Green
Well, I used to be a civil engineer and I had the good old cubicle life and I, you know, so I had this kind of itch to get out and see the city. And when I first moved to New York, I was so fascinated by the subway map, just those like exotic sounding stops out there, 242nd Street, Avenue X. You know, it was like looking at a map of the world and like the farthest reaches of the world. And I just had this desire to go out and just see what they looked like on the ground. And so I'd started a walking group when I was still working as an engineer and we would go out to just the farthest corners of the city, maybe on, on 20 mile long walks. And when I first started, I felt like I had to make sure these walks were like jam packed with exciting things or else people would get bored. And what I realized over the course of all those walks is that anywhere in New York City, if you have people with you who are just interested in looking at things, the city becomes this fascinating place. And it's not just the places that people would see in a tour book that are worth going to. But as I'm sure we'll hear today, there's much smaller, more nuanced things about the city that are equally fascinating.
- [03:16]
Alison Stewart
Yeah. Listeners, we want to hear from you. Tell us about your block and what makes your specific block in New York City special. Call or text us now at 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC are there landmarks or site sites on your block? Is there a building you love or a corner store you rely on? If you had to pick, who would you say is the mayor or the main character of your block and why? That person everyone knows or recognizes that ties the BL number is 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. What did you observe about the unique nature of New York City blocks walking all that time?
- [04:01]
Matt Green
Well, so as I was starting to say before, you know, there's this like this idea in New York that there's the best of everything is here. And both tourists and even residents spend so much time trying to go see the best thing, eat the best thing, like make sure we're using our time really wisely. And the thing about walking every block is that you don't have to think about any of that stuff. Every block is kind of equal. You know, you're just going to see each of them. And I found that it allowed me to see the city on its own terms in a way that you don't normally get to because you're always worried about trying to get to this thing, this destination that you've heard of that you want to make sure that you see it. You want to make sure that, you know, be the one among your friends who's been there. And the city just opens up to you, when you are experiencing it just by being there and just by walking through it. And like I, before I started my walk of all five boroughs, I had heard of a few people who had walked every block of Manhattan. And that something about that idea just really appealed to me that, you know, despite Manhattan being the place of some of the most famous things on earth, the idea of this walk is that none of that matters. You're just. Every single block is the same as every other block. You're just going and looking and seeing what's there. And you just find that the city comes alive to you and that you, like, by walking through a place, you develop a relationship with things and you see that, you know, the value into something is not just like its excitingness or, you know, how delicious the food is or whatever. It's like this thing that you can have a relationship with as a person. And, you know, I experienced that a lot walking. And I'm sure that, you know, people will hear from today. I mean, they have a much deeper relationship with things than I do because they've lived on this block for, you know, for many of them, probably years and years, maybe their whole life. And yeah, I think that, you know, we say beauty's in the eye of the beholder. And I think there's a real truth to that, that the beauty is actually inside you. You know, you. You have to be in relationship with the things in the city that are, you know, that we're going to be hearing about today. Those things aren't just innately interesting. Like they require a person there to. To be. To care for them and to interact with them. And that's what makes the city come alive. And in a city with as many people as this, as densely packed in as this, so many things come alive.
- [06:20]
Alison Stewart
Do you want to hear from some callers?
- [06:21]
Matt Green
Yes. Let's do it.
- [06:22]
Alison Stewart
Yeah, let's talk to Bridget calling from Nassau County. Hey, Bridget, thanks for taking the time to call, all of it.
- [06:28]
Caller Bridget / Caller Sherry
It's my pleasure. Thank you for taking my call. I'm calling about the street I grew up on in Brooklyn. It is called Albemarle Terrace. And twice New York magazine many years ago had named it. The most unique block in the city is a one block dead end street. And it's landmark, preserved. And growing up, there was just. There were 10 houses on either side of the street. It was just one family. We were all together. And most of us have kept in touch with each other. We go to weddings and funerals, and it was just a magical way to grow up. And because it was a dead end street, we were allowed to ride our bikes in the street and play potsy with chalk in the middle of the street. It was just magical.
- [07:23]
Alison Stewart
That's magic.
- [07:24]
Matt Green
That is. I very clearly remember Albemarle Terrace. Yeah, it's. It's. There's a second street just parallel to it. Another little dead end that I can't remember the name of right now. But, yes, the dead ends of New York are like their whole separate worlds, you know, that I. I was very unusual in that I was a person walking down dead ends who didn't live on the dead end or wasn't visiting.
- [07:43]
Alison Stewart
So, like, hey, who's that guy?
- [07:44]
Caller Bridget / Caller Sherry
Right?
- [07:45]
Matt Green
Like every other street, some people just pass through. You know, you're getting from one side to the other when you're a guy walking down a dead end street and you don't live there. And, you know, I think that dead ends, you know, people tend to know each other probably a bit more than your average block. So there is definitely. I got the sense in my walks that real community feel to dead ends. But Albemarle Terrace is also just very special. Like, architecturally, it kind of stands out. It's like a little bit of a bubble of the past still existing right in the middle of Brooklyn.
- [08:15]
Alison Stewart
What are some interesting bubbles that you walked?
- [08:18]
Matt Green
Oh, man. I mean, they're the, like, the architectural ones. Like, what is it called? I think it's the name. Sylvan Terrace. Like up in Washington Heights. That was one place that I remember of. Just like this. All the houses on the street are the same design, and it's just like from another world, just plopped in there and, you know, also like, like the Victorian Flatbush part of Brooklyn. Similarly, like, you could be walking down Coney Island Avenue and just like body shops and all kinds of stuff. And then you make a left turn, and all of a sudden you're surrounded by, like, one of the earliest suburbs. Like these just beautiful, beautiful Victorian houses. I mean, we have, you know, lots of cultural Commodore Walk.
- [08:59]
Alison Stewart
My friend lives there.
- [09:00]
Matt Green
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [09:01]
Alison Stewart
There's always people who are like, can I come in? We're like, nope.
- [09:04]
Matt Green
I mean, yeah, you have like the little bungalow streets of, like, Brighton beach and Sheepshead Bay and the Bronx and Queens, too. And then, you know, we have so many cultural bubbles of, like, Chinatown or like the Hasidic neighborhoods, where those are kind of the places where you could feel like you're not, you know, that you are in another country.
- [09:22]
Alison Stewart
Oh, yes.
- [09:22]
Matt Green
And you wouldn't be 100% sure that you were wrong.
- [09:25]
Caller Adam / Caller Jonathan / Caller Sam
Yeah.
- [09:26]
Alison Stewart
We're talking about the unique nature of each New York City block. My guest is Matt Green, who spent 12 years walking every single street in New York as part of his I'm Just Walking project. We're also hearing from you. We want to know what makes your block special and if you had to pick who would be the mayor or the main character of your bl block, and why that person needs to be someone who ties the block together. Our number is 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. We got a text in that says, Folks on 13th street between 4th and 5th Avenues in Brooklyn will all know Junior, a super on the block who knows everybody. He stops to talk to everyone, and you can often hear Junior saying, what's up, papa? Or how you doing, lady? He is our block's mayor.
- [10:14]
Matt Green
I was thinking about that when you were talking about the mayors of the block, that it depends a lot on the makeup of the block. Like a residential block with bigger buildings that have a super or a doorman. Those guys are on the street all the time. They have a different relationship with the block than basically anyone else does. You have commercial blocks where maybe you don't have a lot of people who live there, but you have the guy who works at the bodega who's like, that's like the center of the community. I mean, I've, like, I think some of the. The bodega guys in New York are like, the. The most, like, social skill, like, super people person type of people who, you know, they're managing, like, people trying to steal stuff. People who, like, need a break. They need something for free. They'll pay you back next week. They, like, they have to know how to relate to every type of person who comes in there. And they're just, like, so masterful at it. And so, like, you know. Yeah. And then you. The blocks where there are a lot of stoops and people are hanging out on the stoops, and that's where you have the residents who are kind of the mayors of the block. But it depends so much on just the makeup of the block and the types of buildings there that dictate who are the people who are going to be out the most and running into the most people and like, utilizing their. All their social skills.
- [11:29]
Alison Stewart
To your point, this text says, my neighborhood bodega Zingonis. I guess that's how I'm pronouncing it.
- [11:34]
Caller Bridget / Caller Sherry
Right.
- [11:34]
Alison Stewart
Is Definitely the mayor of my block family run, Dominic Zingoni knows everyone in the neighborhood. They let you run tabs, but if you're a really good customer, they will let you store a copy of your key with them so that if you lock yourself out, you can hit them up. This one says Jess from the Bronx here. If you're from the Fort Maron area, you know Bori. He's a proud Boriqua, but no one actually knows his real name. He's a jack of all trades, dock walker, valet, etc, eyes always on the street, making sure everything is in order. He's a character and the block loves him.
- [12:09]
Matt Green
I don't know if anyone out there listening. Another good sort of mayor of the block person could be your postal carrier who, you know, they kind of know what's going on with a lot of people because they see the mail, they know who's getting divorced, they know who's getting into college, all that kind of stuff. I mean, I've heard tales of some of them who are selling illicit substances to the people on their route. They're having extramarital relations with people. I mean, you know, I'm sure that's a small minority, but, yeah, I wonder if anyone out there has a real character. Is there a postal carrier?
- [12:43]
Alison Stewart
We have a question for you, Matt. It says, how did your guest plan his walks?
- [12:48]
Matt Green
Oh, how did I plan? So one thing that makes me in some ways very unqualified to be here today is that the whole time that I was doing my walk, I didn't have an apartment in New York. I was like, couch surfing and cat sitting with different friends, friends of friends. The network kind of grew over the years, and so I was staying in so many different parts of the city, often just for a few nights at a time. So I never really developed these kind of like, deep, deep relationships with the place that our callers have. But it did have the advantage of, like, letting me live a little bit in so many different parts of the city. And so when I would plan my walks, I would basically try to stay as close as I could to where I was living at the moment, you know, for those few days. And so, you know, in the early days of my walk, every. Every bit of ground was virgin territory and I could walk wherever as. As the years went on. And I sometimes had to, you know, commute somewhere to get to the. The last blocks I had to walk. But, yeah, I would just look at my map, basically see what I had filled in. I mean, I had like the digital equivalent of A paper map that you had highlighted all the streets of and whatever was closest to where I was staying that day. I would draw out a map. I got pretty good at it over the years of, you know, I never used like any kind of computer to tell me the most efficient route. But you kind of just get a hang for it over years and years of doing it of how to relatively efficiently cover an area. So, yeah, so it was usually based on where I was staying. And that meant that in a given week or a couple of weeks, I could, you know, easily be in all five boroughs. And, you know, maybe I walk one neighborhood and I walk half of it and then seven years later I'm back walking the other half. So, you know, sometimes I would see things over time, right, cross through an intersection once and a decade later cross through it the other way and remember something about it from all those years ago.
- [14:35]
Alison Stewart
We are talking about the unique nature of city blocks in New York City. My guest is Matt Green, who spent 12 years walking every single street in New York as part of his I'm Just Walking project. We're hearing from you as well. We'll have more after a quick break. This is all of. You're listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. We're talking about the unique nature of each New York City block. My guest is Matt Green, who's walked every single street in New York City. Let's talk to Adam in Brooklyn. Hi, Adam, thanks for calling all of it. You're on the air.
- [15:19]
Caller Adam / Caller Jonathan / Caller Sam
Oh, hey, Allison. Hi, thanks for having me. Yeah, I wanted to talk about, I'm a little south of the caller who was on 13th street and have a similar, which I know is abundant in Brooklyn. We don't have a mayor, we have a president and our president is named Ida. I'm sure she doesn't listen to your show, but probably some folks on our block do. And she just sees everything, knows everything. If you've put your garbage out in the wrong manner or forgot to put your garbage out, she'll let you know or she'll put it out for you. She'll also reorganize garbage. So if she think something should be not in front of your house, she'll move it. And you know, she's Sicilian and she has a brother in law who lives halfway down the other end of the block. So she's constantly just going back and forth. She knows they have family in Greenwood Cemetery. This is real kind of like fabric of the neighborhood. And just lastly, a quick anecdote she, she knows every dog on the block and will buy roast chicken. There's one, probably more than one, but you know, she'll buy like roast chicken and give it to some of her favorite dogs and other foods. So she's just. Yeah, and. And to see her and her brother in law start to kind of go on about X, Y and Z is pretty magical actually.
- [16:44]
Alison Stewart
Has she ever spoken to you?
- [16:46]
Caller Adam / Caller Jonathan / Caller Sam
Oh, yeah, yeah. Where you're. She's the president, you kind of have to defer to her. So. And if, if you do, you know, you're in her good graces and. Yeah, I see her all the time. I mean, this is what's great about Brooklyn, I think. And it's kind of a multi generational multicultural, like these people like Ida and the older generation who, you know is being gentrified or moved out or just aging out of the planet. You know, we have contact, we always talk, we know each other's families, our kids and you know, it's a really beautiful thing about Brooklyn that I love.
- [17:25]
Alison Stewart
Thanks so much for calling in. This says, this text says, my most memorable block is West 50th between 8th Avenue and Broadway in Manhattan. I face the musical Wicked. And eight times every week, every the weem of the crush of humanity waiting to get into that theater. It was miraculous.
- [17:43]
Matt Green
Wow, that's, you know, that's one of those great. Like most people who are living on a block and thinking about the mayor of the block are on like, you know, these Brooklyn blocks that, you know, the residential block. And then there's the people who live across the street from Wicked. Like there are so many of those unusual blocks in New York City. Whether it's that, whether you're across the street from the like sanitation truck depot, you know, there's so many blocks that are like no other blocks.
- [18:09]
Alison Stewart
Who do you remember from your walks? Somebody, Some person that you just always tell people about.
- [18:14]
Matt Green
Oh, wow. I mean, yeah, so many different ones. I mean, one guy, this was kind of maybe the first sort of mayor of the block character I encountered in my walk. You know, just the first kind of couple weeks of the walk, it wasn't exactly a block. It was an Inwood Hill park. But sometime before I had been walking through that park. It's this beautiful, beautiful park at the very northern part of Manhattan. And it's basically like a quite deep valley and two high ridges running along it. And I'd been walking through it and. And in the bottom of this valley there were all of these, I don't know exactly what to call it. I mean, it's kind of like land art. Like all of these circular creations with different patterns and stuff made out of wood and leaves from the trees and stones and things. And I was just fascinated by it, but I didn't know what to make of it. And there was a guy walking through the park with his dog. I asked him about it. He told me it was just this older Korean guy named Young. And he told me, you know, I could look him up online. So I went online and I found a little bit about him. And I found this video someone had taken of him. And he was in Inwood Hill park. And it was, like, snowing. It was lightly snowing. And he was standing there with this, like, turquoise scarf and this black and white checkered hat. And he was holding his hand out and just, like, looking into the camera, dead in the camera and whistling and. And all of a sudden, this woodpecker just comes in, alights right on his hand and eats the little bird seed in his hand. So I have this memory. And then right as I'm starting my walk, I'm walking in Inwood Hill park, and there are all these people gathered around a tree. And I asked them what they're looking at. There's an owl up in the tree, and they're all, like, showing each other. They show me where the owl is. And then I start to walk off, and these two older gentlemen come walking toward me, Korean looking. And one of them has this turquoise scarf on and this black and white checkered hat. And I'm like, oh, my God, this is Young. And he and his friend had heard about the owl in the tree. I showed them where the owl was, and then he gave me this tour of all of his creations that he would work on every day. I think he had retired. I think he ran. You had mentioned before, I think he ran a dry cleaner or a laundromat or something in the neighborhood. So he had been a fixture in that way. But then in his retirement, he just became this artist of Inwood Hill Park. And he just created these things that most people would just see as magic. They just appear there. But, you know, if you happened there at the right time, you'd see him down there working on it. And, you know, it was an interesting sort of contrast to Ida, who we just heard about, where there's so many different ways to be the mayor of your block or your park or whatever, right? Young had this very quiet sort of nature that drew people to him.
- [20:52]
Alison Stewart
I didn't sound that quiet.
- [20:53]
Matt Green
What's that?
- [20:53]
Alison Stewart
Ida did not sound quite.
- [20:54]
Matt Green
I did not sound quiet. But Ida has this other thing that you have to have, which is this balance of like bossiness, but still this kind of charisma that makes people want to please you because you can be bossy and have everyone hate you, but you know, you have to have that right balance of just like it's kind of this tough love thing. That's a very sort of New York characteristic. I've seen that also with the people, maybe somewhat like Ida, who direct the traffic on alternate side parking day. They get out there and they make sure everyone's moved their car to the right spot. Hey, you, get over here. Get over there. Yeah, that's another kind of classic one.
- [21:28]
Alison Stewart
Take another call. Let's talk to Jonathan who is calling in from Manhattan. Hey, Jonathan, thanks for taking the time to call all of it. Tell us all about your block.
- [21:40]
Caller Adam / Caller Jonathan / Caller Sam
So I'm on 23rd between 5th and 6th and we live right across from the Home Depot, which has to be the most beautiful Home Depot in the world. Built in the 1800s, stone and cast iron in the Lavy's shopping mile district. We also have Italy right next door, which we go to probably four times a week. Just amazing shopping, restaurants. And they have a gelateria and I have a 10 year old boy and every Thursday when he gets off his school bus, we have a standing appointment to go get gelato. And then also related to my son, right on the corner we have the Lego store, which we can't stop without walking by and seeing what's the latest Lego exhibits there as well. So it's a great block.
- [22:21]
Alison Stewart
Thank you so much for calling in. Let's talk to Sam from Ridgewood. Hey, Sam, thanks for calling, all of it. I want to hear about the mayor of your block.
- [22:29]
Caller Adam / Caller Jonathan / Caller Sam
Okay, cool. The mayor, my block is Ricky. She's a Romanian woman. I live in Ridgewood, Queens on Minahan street, and she's always hanging out in the stoop. We had a situation where we had packages stolen from our house and she was on top of it. She was like, she was like Matlock with that. She was going door to door. She was trying to find cameras, she was pulling out all the stops. But you know, listen, I used to live on Eagle street in Greenpoint. I lived there 12 years and 12 years I, you know, I never really knew anybody on my blog, a couple of people here and there. But then I moved to Ridgewood and it's a whole nother story and I think it's because, you know, it's smaller houses, it looks like Brooklyn. If you know, Ridgewood, it kind of looks like Brooklyn, even though it's Queen. But Eagle street in Greenpoint, it's a lot of younger people coming and going. You know, they move in, they stay for a couple of years, they move out. And people don't really set up the routes the same way they do out here and, you know, other parts of the city. So I think it all depends on, you know, block by block. Even if it's residential, you might not have those mayor types. It's the people that stick around and build those routes.
- [23:41]
Alison Stewart
Oh, thanks for calling in. This text says thinking of always changing nature of nyc. I used to live in Williamsburg on the Wythe Ave. Between north third and Metropolitan, across from the recently moved Silver Diner. Slick motorcycle shop owner was the undisputed mayor of our block. I still miss him and his quote unquote Sheriff Michael it was another time. But that was interesting what the caller said about the generations.
- [24:07]
Matt Green
Yes, absolutely. I mean, that's certainly true. A lot of it is age and roots. You know, people who've, who've lived here a while obviously just have more invested in the city and more familiarity with the city. And, you know, there are a lot of younger people who move here kind of seeing New York as like a platform to build a career or something, but aren't quite looking at it in the same way of building, you know, building a life here. And I don't know, I mean, there's so many different ways to live in New York City. I mean, you can see you can kind of live in New York as a consumer where, you know, you've heard about the amenities New York has and the things that you can partake in here. And there are people who end up here for other reasons. And like, anywhere they would live, they would be the mayor of their block, you know, that like, they're just the type of person who builds a community wherever they are. And, you know, I don't want to. I mean, everyone's allowed to live in New York the way that they want to live in it. But there is definitely something special about the people who have laid down roots here in a way that, you know, I certainly haven't. I mean, people who just spend so much time and care and like, I mean, it's really like an act of devotion to live in a place for years and years and years. Even if you're just a quiet person who just says hi to, you know, says hi to the mayor as you're walking down the block. You know, you're adding a lot to the block just by being there and taking part in it. You don't have to be the loud one to be a really important member of your block.
- [25:37]
Alison Stewart
Let's talk to Sherry, who's calling from Chelsea. Hey, Sheri, thanks for calling, all of it.
- [25:43]
Caller Bridget / Caller Sherry
Good afternoon. I'm calling back Brooklyn again. Brooklyn. We're all very enthusiastic about Brooklyn, but anybody who goes on Quentin Road on the east side of Nostrand Avenue, if you walk up there, it's like small town, usa. You're on Main Street. All the houses, they're small houses, but they're all painted different pastel colors and they all this flag, stick it out over the front porch and it's like, it's like time travel. You go on to that part of 20th Road and you are no longer in. Not only not in Brooklyn, you're not in New York City anymore. You could be in Iowa. It's just like complete shift.
- [26:35]
Alison Stewart
Thank you so much for calling. I did want to get to this before we run out of time. There's going to be a screening of your documentary tomorrow at the Museum of the Moving Image and there's a walking tour. You're leaving?
- [26:45]
Matt Green
Yes. It's a whole day of walking, programming the music. The movie starts at noon. At 2 o' clock, there's a talk from a researcher about walking, the effects it has on your brain. And then at 3:30, we're doing a walk around the neighborhood. So come join us. It's all free.
- [26:59]
Alison Stewart
We got this text that said, I grew up on Jedwood Place in Valley Stream, and my grandmother was definitely the mayor of the block. She was an RN and the head of the nurses department at Franklin hospital for nearly 50 years. So she patched up practically every person on the block.
- [27:15]
Matt Green
Amazing.
- [27:16]
Alison Stewart
Is there anything else you want to leave us with about walking New York City and what we should do and what we should observe?
- [27:22]
Matt Green
Yeah.
- [27:22]
Caller Adam / Caller Jonathan / Caller Sam
Well,
- [27:24]
Matt Green
I think the most important thing for me that the kind of magic of walking every block and not that you have to do that, but just it led me to realize the beauty of walking a place with no intention, no goal to get somewhere. Because once you're looking forward to getting to a place everywhere in between you and that destination is kind of in the way. But, you know, and people do this all the time. You go out for a walk on the weekend or something. But if, you know, if you can divorce yourself from like, I'm doing it for exercise, I'm doing it to get to this place. I'm doing it as an efficient way to run my errands or something. Then you just start to see the world open up to you in a different way. And I want to give one quick shout out to the non human mayors of the block in New York City. Sometimes it's a dog that kind of rules the block. Sometimes it's a tree. The wild turkeys of Staten island are definitely the mayors of those blocks. So yeah, I just want to make sure we're not being speciesist here.
- [28:18]
Alison Stewart
My guest has been Matt green. He spent 12 years walking every single street in New York. His documentary is at the museum of the moving Image. The world before your feet. That is tomorrow. Thanks for joining us.
- [28:30]
Matt Green
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