D (1:33)

I guess that I need shirts.

C (1:35)

The reason I asked is because I came across a super interesting survey. It was done by resume templates. They surveyed 831 Gen Zers who are working full time. They wanted to understand how involved their parents were in. In their most recent job search for the current role that they're in. And the numbers were just incredible to me, you guys.

B (1:56)

When I saw these stats, I was like, there's no way, like, if we double check these stats. Because it. I was like, this is ridiculous. I must be getting like the old grouchy man. Like, get off my lawn. Because I read these. And I was like, whoa, just stop the world. 31% of Gen Zers had a parent write their resume. Okay. You think it doesn't get worse? It does. 77% brought a parent to an interview set in the lobby maybe. And 40% sat in on the interview. 40% if I'm the employer, I'd go get out of here. 53% had a parent speak with a hiring manager on their behalf. And 45% regularly have a parent talk to their current manager. How are the managers not just going no.

D (2:42)

Yeah. I just kind of feel like this, this ultimately says the parents are too involved. Like if you are, if you are in a job interview with your child, like there's some of these stats that I looked at and I'm like, like, because we helped our son. We helped our son. He's never done a resume so we kind of helped him do that. We didn't write it for him but we, we wrote it with him.

B (3:04)

Yeah.

D (3:05)

And he's 17 and he's 17. Yeah, yeah. And so, and then you know, like we, we brought our kid, you know, we brought him to the interviews and but you know, we sat in the lobby. We, we didn't go, we didn't go into the interview but we were, we were like at the place.

C (3:21)

Is your son Gen Z or is he Gen Alpha?

D (3:23)

He's Gen Z.

C (3:24)

He's Gen Z. Gen Z. Yeah, he's

D (3:26)

that he and my daughter, my, they're at the tail end of Gen Z

C (3:30)

because there's a range there. 17 year old.

B (3:32)

I think you kind of contributed to the stats more yourself giving yourself credit for. So I'm going to help him with his resume. I'm going to drive him and I'm going to sit in the lobby.

D (3:40)

I drove him. Yes. I drove him to the interview and you know he's, he's a.

C (3:46)

And said good luck.

D (3:47)

Well I did. Yeah, I said good luck and I went and sat over in the corner and, and but I wasn't in the interview with him.

B (3:54)

He's one of them.

C (3:55)

But there's a difference.

D (3:56)

I supposed to do leave and come back and now I, I do think

C (3:59)

there's a difference between a 17 year old Gen Z or and a 28 year old Gen Z. Like there is a range. Right. Like there's a lot of life experience there. So if this is the case for someone who's 17. Okay. I can see it. If they're 26 years old.

D (4:11)

We're talking about people with real jobs.

C (4:14)

Full time job. Yeah.

D (4:15)

So this is full time job. Yeah.

B (4:17)

Yes.

D (4:18)

Okay. I thought, you know, different about it potentially. Yeah. I'm thinking my Gen Z. Or I'm like, he's a teenager. But like, right. If you're, yeah. If writing your res, even helping your kid with their resume at the time they're 26 and going to the interview with them. No, absolutely.

C (4:35)

Glad you've come around on.

D (4:36)

Well, I just see, you know, like I, Yeah, I think of my kid is my kid's Gen Z and they're. But they're late, you know, they're in high school later.

C (4:43)

Yeah.

B (4:44)

So we have a friend who's in hr and she was, she has to, when someone gets hired, she has to get all their information, you know, to help wrap it up. So she calls this guy and she's asking, you know, for his files and forms and all the different things. And he goes, I'm confused. Hands the phone to his mother. Like, I'm going, I don't care who you are. That's funny and sad because I'm very judgmental in this episode, but I'm feeling okay with it.

D (5:12)

Well, and I. If I'm the manager, you got a 26 year old, you're explaining these things. And he hands them a phone to his mom. I'm like, who are you? Are you applying for this job? Are you going to be taking this job? No, it's going to be my son. Great. I hang up the phone, I'm done.

B (5:29)

Wow.

D (5:30)

Like, like, I'm not, I'm not hiring somebody who hands the phone to their mom.

B (5:34)

Okay, we're gonna go from this outrage. We're gonna ask our big question of the week. When should dads start pushing their kids to get out of their comfort zones? Because here's the fear. If we don't push our kids, we may delay growth that they need. But we know we've got to push them in love. We know we've got to push, but how do we push them in love?

D (5:55)

So like I said, I mean, my son Luke, he's. He's getting a job. He just got his first job as a lifeguard. And he goes in for his first week and I'm picking him up. Pick him up. We just have one car right now. So I, So I pick him up and I'm like, okay, so how did it go? And he's like, it's good. I just, I hate feeling like an idiot. Like I don't know what I'm doing. And I was like, yeah. I was like, I have felt that way in every job. The first week of every job I've ever done, including the one I'm in now. And he was like, oh, that's good to know. Like, these experiences of, okay, this is uncomfortable. This is, these are all the things that our kids need to have. When I got my license, the first thing I said to my dad was, can I take the car out? When, when my son got his license, he came home and I'm like, hey, you know, what do you want to do? And he goes, never drive again. And I'm like, what do you mean, never drive again? And. And he's like, oh, it's so stressful. And I'm like, okay, you know, hey, do you want more freedom in your life or do you want less? He's like, I want more. And I'm like, okay. I'm like, if you want more freedom in your life, then you're going to need to step out and take some risks and go and, and do it. And he eventually got into an accident and, and then he didn't want to. He didn't want to drive again either. And so it's one of these things. As a parent, you can be like, okay, well, you don't ever have to drive again. But it's. I know what he want know. He wants more freedom. I know he wants to explore. I want, I know he wants to experience adventure. And I'm like, if you're going to do that, you got to get out and experience these things. You got to get back out on the road again.

B (7:35)

Yeah. And you took him back toward the accident, right?

D (7:38)

Yeah, well, I, I said we need to go out. And I'm like, you know, I, I'll go with you. And so we went out and drove and I, and I thought the best thing to do, you know, since he's traumatized by this intersection where he had the accident, where it was his fault, was I. I took him back through that intersection four times.

B (7:55)

Great.

D (7:56)

And, and so. And I'm like, how you feeling? As we were approaching the interstate, I'm like, how you feeling? He's like, anxiety. He's like, like a pit in my stomach. I'm like, okay, well, good. I go, the more you do it, the less I don't feel like that.

C (8:09)

Good for you. Good for you to push them. And driving is a big thing because there is a lot of, you know, fear around it. And what if we get an accident? But the number of like 16 year olds who have their driver's license is like nose diving from 1983% of 16 year olds had a license, 20, 21. That number's down to 25%. So I want to know from you guys, I'm not in that zone yet. Like, how do you, like, comfortably push them into something that could be scary or maybe potentially dangerous? Driving can be inherently dangerous, but they got to do it. They got to learn that skill. It's an important skill. How do you, like, do that? Well.

B (8:45)

Right. Well, I think there's a couple of different pushes that we're talking about today. One is the encouraging push. You know, I think you'd have fun trying this.

D (8:52)

Right?

B (8:53)

And then there's the challenging push. I think you, you know, I think you could study a little harder, you know, or I think, I think you can do this. Or, you know, Luke, we got to go back and we got to go to this, you know, across this intersection. But it is, it's the push. And the thing I liked BJ about what you're talking about was, hey, I'm going to go with him as I push him until he's ready. That feels right to me. Right. That means I am, I'm with you. And we talk about that on the podcast a lot. Like, it's not about making them weak or doing anything for them. It's about being there with them until they're ready to go go on their own. Mary Jo, who writes for imom, which is a. We'll put that link in the show notes. Got to check out imom. It's great. She shared some things and I thought we've just got to share, you know, word for word, what she said in this article. She said, my mom didn't push too hard because she gave me a choice. And I love that. She says pushing kids too hard can be detrimental to their well being. It can also damage your relationship if you put too much pressure on them. Ask yourself, is this going to benefit the child or me? If I feel myself exerting too much energy to convince my child to do something, I know I need to stop. When the focus is on her, a gentle push may be all that is needed. And I just thought that that was so strong. We ran into some friends who we hadn't seen in a long time. They said, how's your. How's your son? And she gets tears in her eyes. She said, what's wrong? She goes, I. I think I ruined our relationship in high school. He's a freshman. She said, I so pushed him on grades that I just stayed on him all the time. And so we definitely don't want that. Kind of pushing, right?

D (10:33)

I kind of look at the picture like this. Like, we, as the parents, you have the world, right? And the world is going to give resistance to our kids. There are going to be challenges, there's going to be difficulties, there's going to be discomfort. And we stand in the way a

B (10:48)

lot of that when they're little.

D (10:50)

And over time, what we need to do, like, sometimes it's like we're holding all of that back and we give them a little discomfort or maybe we give them a challenging thing like, hey, you need to try this, and, you know, and we give them little kind of ways to play at this stuff, but then we gradually move out of the way and let the world little by little in its resistance and its challenges hit them, you know, like that they need to start dealing with certain ones themselves and kind of gradually kind of, kind of get out of the way and let them experience more and more of this stuff. So by the time that they're 25, going into a job interview by themselves or having the responsibility to handle a job by themselves, and maybe even just kind of the, the, the protection part on the license thing is the whole, hey, I'm going to go with you, I'm going to do this with you, or, hey, listen, I want you to watch me intensively as I drive, and then you're going to get an opportunity, or, hey, I'm going to take you into a parking lot and we're going to, we're going to practice for a little while, like all these things. Okay, we've practiced. And now I'm going to get out of the way and you're going to do it yourself. So it's like every single time my, my son goes to work, I hold the keys up and it's. And he's always like, like. And so now it's just. He comes over and just grabs the keys and takes it himself.

B (12:15)

General push, not saying a word. Here's the keys. Little visual going. This is you. I love that. You know, we've talked a lot about driving different things, but this, if you've got younger kids, this is. Kids of all ages need a little gentle push at some point. I remember, like, when preschool for my second son, he's, I think he's like five or six, and we started to notice that he would just watch his brother play. All of a sudden he became content to just watch his brother play the Wii or put together Legos. And I was like, hmm, that's. That's sort of interesting. And then I Started noticing it was going outside of our. Our home. Like, we would be with friends and he would just watch them play, and we're on vacation and all the kids were playing and he's just watching. He looks very content. And I tried to encourage him to play, and he started to cry and said, well, I'm going to go with you, but we're going to. We're going to play. But during this time, we read a parenting book, and one of the terms was windowsill boys. And that boys get to this place where they're. Some kids, boys will be okay with just watching. So we were like, we. That's not okay. We've got to work on this. And one of the things that we saw, or we thought was we think it's because his brother is three years older and he's super competitive, so we had to kind of coach him up to go, hey, if you catch every pass that I'm throwing to him, if you intercept every time, he's going to stop playing. If you win every race, he's going to stop racing. So it was a little bit coaching there, but it was something we had to get really intentional about because I don't know what it would have looked like had we not right. And so, again, my wife was really great at catching this with us, but I'm super thankful for that now. And, you know, this translates when he's 16 years old and I'm watching his mom just prompt him everything about school, everything. You're his prompt. You're his prompt. And after we talked to the lady who said that she'd run the relationship, we came home, we created this little contract, and it said, here's what we're going to do. Here's what you're going to do. We're no longer going to prompt you for your grades. You're going to have to have leave ace B's, which school was easy for him. So that was a big deal. And we're paid for the act once, SAT once, but it was one of those things. And once he signed that, it was like, oh, it's on me. But that's his personality. And so we've got to push, gentle push, depending on how the kid is wired.

C (14:38)

Yeah, yeah. For little kids, like, you know, I've got kids who are 14 and under. And so for the last handful of years, you know, one of the things that comes up with all three of them is riding the bicycle. And, you know, riding with the training wheels is pretty easy. Right. But it also limits you. You can't go that fast. When you're wearing these training wheels, you're kind of limited because you're rocking around. They kind of slow you down. And so with my son, it was no big deal. He's like, I want to fly, man. Take these things off. And so we. We took off the training wheels, and you took off. With my daughter, it was a little harder. And we're like, well, if you want to go fast, if you want to be able to go further, we're going to have to take these off, and you're going to have to try really hard, and I'm going to push you to do that. Because you want to ride with mommy, you want to ride with daddy, you got to keep up with us. You're going to have to pedal harder and try. So we gently push them, but it's not like we just said, good luck and walked away. Like, I held the back of the seat, I kind of held the handlebars, and we kind of eased him into it. But that's still a push. It's a slow, gentle push, but it's still a push. You want to go fast, you want to have fun, you got to get out of your comfort zone and go for it.

D (15:36)

Well, that's the thing. I like that, that you kind of. You start talking about what they want to do. And I think that's one of the things that's going to help motivate kids here is like, hey, what do you want? What do you want to do? Like, do you want. Again, it's like, do you want more freedom? Do you want to have more adventure? What do you want your life to look like?

B (15:56)

Do you.

D (15:57)

You know, even if you've got a kid who's like, I just want to play video games for the rest of my life in a basement, which is, by the way, disappointing if that's the case. If that's the case. But the reality is, like, okay, yeah, well, like, I'm number one. You're not going to be able to live here, and I'm not paying for. You're going to have to pay for all of that. So how are you going to do that? Well, you're going to have to get a job that's going to pay for that. How do you think you're going to do that? Well, you need to do well in school in order to do that, like, to achieve this, even something as small as that, but even that. I think a kind of a little push is just kind of like, hey, you've got a lot of gifts. And that really kind of, I think, wastes a lot of your talent to just kind of do that all day. But asking them like, okay, what do you. What do you want to do? What do you want to be? What do you want your life to look like? Like, I think one of the. One of the things that we've done with our teenage kids is. And this is. This is uncomfortable. And so try this. By the way, parents, if you've got teenagers, when we gave them their phones, we. We specifically told them, when you're with your friends, when you're with people, you are not permitted to take your phone out of your pockets.

A (17:14)

It.

D (17:15)

And they're like, yeah, but they have their phones out. And I said, we said, we don't care. They have their phones out of their pocket. Then it's incumbent upon you to try to come up with conversation topics that pull them away from their phones. And so it's. It's the, the thing that I'm seeing a lot of teenagers lose is this conversational ability or the ability to deal with uncomfortable situations without a crutch. And so I'm like, you're going to have to just be uncomfortable, and you're going to have to engage them and kind of get them out of that. And, you know, it's. It's a hard thing.

C (17:53)

Did they push you on that? They push back.

D (17:56)

No, they didn't, and they don't now. And I, And I did tell them, like, okay, if you're showing your friend a video, you're allowed to do that. But really, it's. It's kind of caused them to. Just like, I think my daughter and her friends are able to do it a little bit more than my son. My son's friends, they're kind of out there on their phones and. But he'll just kind of like, okay, I'm bored. I want to go find something else to kind of, you know, rather than all of us sitting and staring at phones. I don't want to do it. And so it's kind of recognized in him, like, oh, well, I need to go find some folks that want to talk.

C (18:37)

I think the best way to get your kid to be pushed out of their comfort zone is to actually know their comfort zone, know where they think their limits are, and kind of nudge them past that a little bit. You got to know your kid. You need to understand if they think that, you know, the best they can do is a C plus on test. Okay, maybe a B minus. Let's do whatever we need to do, to kind of push ourselves to get a little better in this area. You got to know your kid, know their comfort zone well and reward them.

D (19:02)

You know, when they, when they do step out and do these things, like, we need to recognize that they're heading into, into stuff that's difficult. And so I think we ought to make it a big deal. Like, look what you did. You did it. You jumped out there, you put yourself

C (19:16)

out there, which will encourage them to try harder next time. You would think, yeah.

B (19:20)

Another question is when do they need a push? And I think it's so important. This is all based on. You said it, Bobby. Is their personality, do they handle failure poorly? You know, we've got to know their personality. We did an incredible interview with Kathleen Edelman and I just thought it was so powerful. And she's, she's spoken into our lives as parents for, for years. But she talks about a kid's temperament being, you know, inborn. Like you, you come into the world wired away. And depending on how your kid is wired, knowing your kid will depend on how you push them. You know, some of them are going to need like the cheerleading, like, way to go. Good, good job. You can do this. The other one is like, hey, knock it, knock it off. And then there's the other one. Gentle, you know, gentle with them and encouraging them, because that's just how they're wired.

D (20:13)

Yeah.

C (20:13)

So we talked about, you know, why we should push them and when we should push them. But why is it that dads should push them? There a lot of people can push them. Coaches, teachers, mom. Who. Why should dads be pushing their kids? I think there's a couple of really important reasons. One is we see their potential. Like I, I see what my kid can accomplish before they see it sometimes. So we're the ones that can kind of drive that in them. I think that's important. We can help shape their future. Hopefully they' kind of learned to trust us over the years that we've done this enough times that they see, oh, dad wasn't just blowing smoke years ago. Like this actually worked. And so maybe I can trust him in this moment. And that builds courage in them to keep going. Dads, you, you have such an influential voice in your kids life. Then when we are pushing them a little bit, hopefully we've built up enough equity with them over their life that they, they think that we're doing it in their best interest. That's, that's the goal.

D (21:03)

One of my favorite movies is We Bought a Zoo. Actually, it's not one of my favorite movies, but as one of those. It just has great moments. And I love this line from it. The. The dad is telling the son, he's like, you know, sometimes you just need 20 seconds. 20 seconds of courage.

B (21:25)

That's good.

D (21:25)

20 seconds of just embarrassing bravery.

C (21:29)

Yeah.

D (21:29)

And I. And he said, and if you do that, I promise you good things are going to happen.

B (21:35)

I love how tangible that is, too, to say it. Okay, you got. You just need 30 seconds. That's powerful. So let's talk about some action steps of how can do this. Number one, put them in manageable areas. Find something that they can do, but they haven't, and let them try it. But it's got to be. It's got to be doable, right?

D (21:54)

So I push my kids into roller coasters. I push them on that like they had a fear of it, and I pushed them too early, and it was a total disaster.

B (22:02)

Don't we have a whole episode in roller coasters?

D (22:06)

We probably should, but I. Yeah, my. So. So my son. We went to Busch Gardens, and I was there with. We were there with my nephew Zach, who's like, in his. In his early 20s, and there is a roller coaster named Shikra. And it is. It's pretty intense. Like, it's. It's intense. And I think my son was like 10 at the time. And. And my nephew said, hey, if you do this, I'll give you my gaming headphones, which had just broken. I knew that. I knew that and Zach knew that, but. But my son didn't. And my son looked into.

A (22:46)

And.

D (22:46)

And I. All I thought was, he just needs to get past it. And he's gonna, you know, he. He doesn't need the headphones, but he's gonna realize how fun this is. And we went through it, and I turned and looked at him, and it was, you know, it was like this terribly damaging thing. And then my daughter, we were at Disney, and I was just kind of like, I told her. And again, I think she was like eight. And I was like, you can either ride the Tower of Terror or. Or you. Or you can ride the rock and roll roller coaster. Which one's gonna be.

B (23:26)

Yeah.

D (23:27)

And she was like, the rock and roll roller coaster. And the rock and roll. If you've never been on it, it's brutal. It takes off and then it goes into darkness and it measly starts.

B (23:36)

Oh, that's brutal.

C (23:37)

With a loop

D (23:40)

picture of it. And I'm not going to put it in the show notes because I'm Afraid someone's going to call cps. But. But, like, she is. She is, like, crying. We're all like, yay. And she is just, you know, this horrible moment. And so you don't want to, you know, you want to be very careful. There are some dads. I mean, that's. There's kind of a humorous part of that, but there are some dads that try to push their kids into what they want them to be, and it can be very, very damaging for a kid, and the kid will resist and all that stuff. And so you want to find ways to just motivate your kids in order to take these steps themselves.

B (24:24)

So to push them for who they are is one thing, pushing them in a direction that we want them to be. So it's, again, it's your knowing your kid and pushing them in that direction. Here's another action step is remind them that failure is acceptable. Hey, it's just going to happen. Instant success isn't the goal. Just trying new things is a win. You know, few people are great on day one of an endeavor. Right?

C (24:47)

Action step number three for you dads is always encourage before, during, and after you push. It's not really worth it to, like, just do it once and then just leave them on their own. We've done this with my youngest daughter. She wanted to take ballet a couple years ago, so we put her in it, and we tried to push her too fast, too soon, and she just resented it. And she Even to the point where in the recital, she just sat down and she's the only kid sitting like, I'm not doing this anymore. I was like, well, we. We're not going to push you anymore until you're ready. So years go by, two, three years, and we slowly learned push a little bit. Don't push too fast. And then we got to a new hobby of violin, and she got to a new recital, and we were worried, is she just going to sit down on the floor again like last time? And nope, she actually went up and did it because we gradually pushed her.

B (25:32)

I love that, Bobby. You're talking about coaching them up before they're going to do something. Another thing we can do is push and then debrief afterwards, you know, to talk about, you know, what'd you learn? You know, what'd you learn with this experience? Talk to me a little bit about this. What'd you feel? Was that fun? Do you want to do it again? Should we try to do it again? But just some great debrief is good.

C (25:55)

Yeah, I've been coaching my son's hockey teams the last couple of weeks, and I've been doing this new thing on the bench in between periods. You play three periods in the hockey game, so they come back to the bench twice and in the middle. And so I'll ask the kids, what do you think you're doing? Well, and no matter what they say, I'm like, you're right, little Timmy. You are skating well or you are doing whatever. And then it encouraged them to, like, okay, now try. Try your hardest this period. Because it's not about, like, are you becoming the greatest at fill in the blank? It's about, like, encouraging them to be the best that they can be right now. And so I've pushed them in that way not to say, hey, you're the best ever. Go, go, go. But, you know, it's all about, did you have fun? That. That's the most important thing. Did you have fun?

B (26:37)

So what about you guys? Like, what's your call to action this week for yourself to push your kids a little bit?

D (26:44)

I mean, I think mine would be okay. What, what made you uncomfortable this week? You know, what, what. What situations did you put yourself in to kind of put yourself into. Into disc, to step into discomfort? You know, what, how. In what ways? What challenges have you kind of faced this week?

B (27:01)

That's good.

C (27:02)

Yeah, I'll ask him. Like, what'? That you avoided trying. And then ask them why and say, okay, well, why? And then we can kind of go from there, figure it out.

B (27:10)

That's good. Those nice, neutral moments, they're not upset about anything.

C (27:13)

I'm not blaming you for anything. I just want to know what was the last thing you. You didn't want to try. Yeah, go from there.

B (27:19)

So we have just one left in the house of four. And what I've noticed with her, if I'm going to push her and encourage her, I have to attach it to a win. You know, if I want her to say, hey, if you want to try this next thing, if you want, you know, she's wanting to sign up for whatever activity I have to attach it to a win. So I've got to make sure that I'm really doing that with her to push her to the next thing.

C (27:43)

Sure.

B (27:44)

Good idea, you guys, as always, this is good. This is good. I just feel like these conversations are so important to go. I didn't get these kind of resources and tools when I was, you know, raising my kids, and so I'm glad we're getting to do this for dads. I wish we could rewind and have a little bit of this, you know, for Younger Ted. My kids. My kids are great despite me though, right? That's how this works.

C (28:07)

Well, good.

B (28:07)

We're going to jump right in, but hopefully your kids don't have to be great despite you, but because of you. So we're going to go with that. But that's our pro move of the week is this is to ask your kid what is your biggest challenge right now? Then help them make a plan to overcome that challenge. Love it. It's always good hanging out with you. Great. Great hanging out with you. Hey, if you would do us a little favor and rate, review the podcast and send it to a friend. It's how dads can find out about this. But we want to say most of all, thank you. Thank for joining us and hanging out with us. We know that you and your kids will be glad that you did.

A (28:42)

Thanks again for listening to the All Pro Dad Podcast. Behind every episode is our amazing team producer, Haley Moat, audio and video editor Buck Buchanan, and production coordinator, Corey Walliffe. All Pro dad is the fatherhood program of the nonprofit Family first, along with our motherhood program imom. We exist to help you love your family well. So remember, if you have more questions than answers, then you're probably in the right place. See you next time.