Loading summary
Transcript94 lines
- [00:00]
Ted Lowe
Warning. The following podcast is brought to you by dads who can never remember the WI FI password.
- [00:05]
Bobby Lewis
Welcome to the AllPradet podcast. Hey, welcome to AllPro dad podcast. My name is Ted Lowe, and I'm joined today by Bobby Lewis. BJ Foster. Got a lot of kids and a lot of questions. Speaking of questions, BJ and I have a very important question for you, Bobby.
- [00:22]
Ted Lowe
Okay.
- [00:24]
Bobby Lewis
When kids in a study were asked, are you a bully?
- [00:29]
Ted Lowe
Yeah.
- [00:29]
Bobby Lewis
What percentage of them said yes?
- [00:32]
Ted Lowe
So how many think they're bullying?
- [00:34]
Bobby Lewis
Yeah, kids think they're bullying.
- [00:35]
Ted Lowe
Oh, gosh, 0.1%.
- [00:39]
BJ Foster
Okay.
- [00:40]
Ted Lowe
Like, no. But I'm sure most kids, even if they are, they're not gonna admit it.
- [00:44]
Bobby Lewis
Right? Right.
- [00:45]
Ted Lowe
All right, so basically, none.
- [00:47]
Bobby Lewis
We ask parents, do you think your kid is a bully? What percentage?
- [00:51]
Ted Lowe
Oh, less than none. Negative 10.
- [00:53]
Bobby Lewis
Less than none. Not only are they not a bully.
- [00:56]
Ted Lowe
Yeah. They're like an angel.
- [00:57]
Bobby Lewis
They're.
- [00:58]
BJ Foster
Yeah, I think that's a good guess. You were actually underestimating.
- [01:03]
Ted Lowe
Really? Pretty close.
- [01:04]
BJ Foster
Well, okay, so about 3% of children admit to bullying when asked directly if they bully other kids. According to a UK study by the Anti Bullying alliance, which asked about 45,000 children. They were asked about exhibiting behavior associated with bullying without using the word bully. And the results are different. Things like name calling, teasing, pushing or hitting, excluding others, etc. They found that 37% of kids reported bullying others, and 7% said that they bullied others on a regular basis. So, which. That might sound small, but when you have 7% that are doing it all the time, that's a lot of kids getting bullied.
- [01:57]
Ted Lowe
So the. The summary of the study was when you def. When you said, do you bully people? Almost none of the kids said, yes, 3%. But when you described what bullying was without saying bullying, they're like, oh, yeah, I do that all the time. That was the result of the study.
- [02:09]
BJ Foster
Wow.
- [02:10]
Bobby Lewis
Wow.
- [02:10]
BJ Foster
Well, at least, like, I mean, you got. You got a third of kids basically kind of admitting to, okay, yeah, I do this. And then 7% just flat out saying that they do it all the time.
- [02:22]
Bobby Lewis
So it's kind of like asking, are you a monster?
- [02:24]
BJ Foster
Right.
- [02:25]
Bobby Lewis
Well, when you define monster, it turns out I'm a monster.
- [02:28]
BJ Foster
Right.
- [02:28]
Bobby Lewis
But just that word has become so, so big. That's an interesting conversation with. With other dads and with our kids. Right.
- [02:36]
Ted Lowe
Yeah. I was going to say it's an interesting study because it means a lot of kids are bullying and they just don't realize it, which means my kids might be bullying people. And they don't realize it. I wouldn't have. I would have been one of those parents who, if you asked me, is your kid a bully? I'd say no. But if you were to say, does your kid do ABC and be like, oh, well, sometimes maybe they are a bully. You know, that's interesting.
- [02:57]
BJ Foster
Yeah. No, and that's the thing is parents can't, Parents cannot take the attitude ever that, my kid would never, my kid would never do that. There's too much of that. And when you have that kind of attitude, it just gives. It creates an environment where bullies are going to be able to thrive. But if you, if you are a little bit more diligent and just keeping an eye out on your kids and what they're doing and what their attitudes are and how they treat others, then that gives a chance to kind of change the, kind of the tide on this thing. So parents have to, they have to understand that their kids are probably the statistic and not they're pro. They're a part of the statistics. So if you have three kids, chances are one of them is going to be having some bullying, exhibiting some bully type behavior.
- [03:50]
Bobby Lewis
Wow. Well, the research also is showing that the kids that are bullying are also hurting too, emotionally. Like, there's some underlying things going on with them. That doesn't give it an excuse by any means, but it does help explain what's going on. It's. I'm hurt. You know, what is this saying? Hurt people hurt people. And I guess that includes kids, too.
- [04:13]
BJ Foster
When I was working with teenagers, I was asked to chaperone a dance one time. And it was the most uncomfortable experience in my entire life because, because they all start, you know, I've befriended all these teenagers and I'm really not in the authority structure. I'm kind of outside and. And all of a sudden the, the teenagers, the music comes on and they all start grinding all over each other. And I'm in this awkward position where now I have to, like, stop them from doing that. And so a year later, I was, I ran into a mom and she was with her daughter, but her daughter just kind of walked away. And I knew her daughter. I was friends with her daughter. And she said, did you chaperone the dance last night? And I said, no, I'm never gonna do one of those again. And she said, oh, why? And I said, because 100% of the kids grind all over each other. And she goes, o, oh, wow, that's terrible. And I said, no, you didn't hear what I said. 100% of the teens grind on each other. And she goes, oh, well, it couldn't be 100%. And I go, ask your daughter.
- [05:28]
Bobby Lewis
And
- [05:30]
BJ Foster
she brings her daughter over and she goes, do you grind at the. Like, with the guys at this dance, at these dances?
- [05:37]
Ted Lowe
That's a fun question.
- [05:38]
BJ Foster
I know, right? And her daughter goes and just goes and walks away. And her mom was like, we're going to talk when we get home. And she looked at me. I go, I told you, 100%. And so. So anyway, with these statistics, like, look, your kids. Yeah, they're probably. They're probably. They're. They're a part of the statistics. One of the things that this kind of makes me think of, too, is, you know, a lot of times we kind of. It's. We can't imagine our kid would do it. Right, right. And we sort of paint the. Like, you said it like, these kids are monsters. They're monsters. But all of a sudden, when we start to think, you know, maybe my kid, like. So I love the show Ted Lasso. I don't know if you've ever seen it, but in the show Ted Lasso, Jason Sudeikis plays a high school football coach, or not, a college football coach who gets hired to be a coach of a Premier League soccer team. It's ridiculous. And so he's with his whole group of coaches, and he gets a call that his son had a bullying incident. And. And they're all talking about it, and one of the assistant coaches, this really gruff guy, is just kind of like, you know, what you do is, I'll find this kid and I'll kill him. And Ted Lasso goes, I appreciate that, but it's my son was doing the bullying.
- [07:05]
Bobby Lewis
Oh.
- [07:06]
BJ Foster
And all of a sudden, when it's our kid who's exhibiting this kind of behavior, and particularly in middle school, which is a total culture of meanness where they are not thinking about the consequences of what they're doing, the chances are that, you know, pretty high that your kid has exhibited at least a little bit of bullying. And so when we start to think of them as possibly our kids, that completely changes the game. Now, we can't paint them as a monster now. They're kids that we love and care for, and then we can engage them and start to bring them into a different place and how they treat one another. So.
- [07:44]
Bobby Lewis
So we're saying, hey, it could be any of our kids. Right. Here's the question, though. Why do kids do this? Why do kids bully? What's behind it? Yeah.
- [07:54]
BJ Foster
Well, I think, I think one of the things, one of the reasons why. And by the way, I. I think when we figure out why they're doing it, that kind of helps us engage them. So seeking control, I think is one of the things like. And kids who are going through a lot, a lot of shifting, foundational stuff happens. You know, even when they, when they just even enter into puberty. If you've got. Even if you have stable parents, that's a lot of. That's a lot of instability going on. And so they feel very uneasy. They might feel uneasy about who they are. They might have felt rejected or whatever. You add on top of that an unstable environment in the home, an unstable environment in at school. Whether it's. They're struggling at school, whether they have friendship problems, whether maybe they're so. They have social. They're socially awkward and they built up a lot of anger and whatever and they just kind of feel like their whole world they have. They have no sense of control. And it's scary.
- [09:02]
Bobby Lewis
So I'm going to control this.
- [09:03]
BJ Foster
I'm going to kid.
- [09:03]
Bobby Lewis
Yeah, I'm especially a kid I can't control.
- [09:05]
BJ Foster
Exactly. I'm going to grab some sort of control here and I'm going to inflict. Even just inflicting pain feels like some sense of control. Yeah. And some people inflict pain on themselves. You have people cut or whatever. They're looking for control. But this is, this is one of the ways that they look for control that's helpful.
- [09:23]
Ted Lowe
My two younger kids were watching the movie Zootopia the other day. Have you seen that movie? Little Animals. They had their little community. And there's the bunny rabbit who is eventually going to grow up to be a police officer. Well, there's a scene in the beginning of the movie. I was kind of just watching it out of the corner of my eye when my kids were enjoying this movie. And the bunny rabbit, when she's a kid is getting bullied and by this bigger fox. And eventually as the movie progresses towards the end, that fox is now an adult and he apologizes to the bunny for how he behaved. And I thought the quote was so interesting. I wrote it down. The fox said I had a lot of self doubt and it manifested itself in a form of unchecked rage and aggression. What a very grown up statement. But basically it was, I bullied you because I needed control over something. And it was just funny. As we were preparing for this, my kids happened to watch that movie and I was like, what a great line from the movie. The kids are hearing that while watching it and maybe, you know, associating with it.
- [10:17]
Bobby Lewis
It's kind of affirming what you just said, right?
- [10:20]
BJ Foster
Absolutely. Another thing is if there's one thing that kids want more than anything else, teenagers in particular, middle schoolers in particular, is they want attention. And again, developmentally, from where they are, they don't understand the impact that they're having. You know, think of a chap, Clark said on the episode when we interviewed him. You have a middle schooler who has like a first person type, like video. Think of first person type video games, where they can just see this, but they can't really see the impact they're having from the people around them. So if you have that, if you have a kid who is looking for attention but doesn't understand the impact of the attention he's seeking of the people around him, you have a recipe for some very mean behavior because they're going to go ahead and, and hammer on somebody and get attention for it, get positive affirmation. People are laughing, they're making fun of somebody, they're getting a lot of laughter, they're getting a lot of attention. Maybe they exhibit power over somebody and people think that they have power and they're like, oh, you know, we like that. You know, this guy is strong. You know, this kid is strong and powerful and can kind of do what he wants. And so. But they're not thinking about the cost of somebody else. I'll never forget, like, when I was in middle school, like, I. You asked me, like, have you ever bullied anyone?
- [11:45]
Ted Lowe
I'm like, no.
- [11:45]
BJ Foster
Or, you know, like, have you ever, you know, done any, any kind of bullying type of hair? I'm like, absolutely not. Well, you know, I was in middle school and there was, there was some friends of mine were kind of making fun of this kid's yearbook photo saying, like, his hair looked like a toupee. And I started, I looked at it and I was like, oh, my gosh, it does. I started laughing and I called him over. I'm like, come on over. I'm like, your hair looks like a toupee. And I thought, I mean, like, I had no. I thought everybody's. Everybody's laughing at this. And I couldn't. And he just got, you know, like, you know, kind of gave me the brush off, got angry and left the table. And I just sort of thought, this is funny and these guys are laughing and that's it. And so you get that and that going round and round and your, you know, Attention is, I think, a great motivator for bullying.
- [12:43]
Bobby Lewis
Wow. And you know, now you needed toupee
- [12:47]
BJ Foster
just like me, 100%. Like there is.
- [12:50]
Bobby Lewis
Yeah.
- [12:50]
BJ Foster
God definitely rectified the situation.
- [12:52]
Ted Lowe
Yeah.
- [12:54]
Bobby Lewis
So. So why do kids bully? Another reason is it's a learned behavior. They see it at home, they bring it to school. Or sometimes the biggest bully in your home is one of your kids bullying another one of your kids. And we really don't like to think about that if that's true. But it's true. I lived it growing up and had a family member that bullied me really badly. And I look back now and say, what was that about? He'd gone through a lot of trauma, just like me. But then he had always been a little bit of a bully, but it escalated because he had access to, to me, an opportunity. So sometimes we think, you know, kids are going to be kids, but friends, you know, dads, I am telling you, watch for that. Because just by nature you can have a kid that's bigger, stronger, has a more aggressive personality. Keep your eye out for that and go. Is this bullying as we define bullying? Is that what's happening in my own home?
- [13:58]
BJ Foster
At these ages, you have a hard time knowing how to process when you're, when you're getting faced with all these emotions, especially, I would say, especially boys. And if you have, and if you're a, if you're a father who has a hard time with this and have it modeled this, well, then you're gonna have kids that can't process these emotions. So what do they do? They lash out. They, you know, look to inflict pain. So people are feeling the same kind of pain and insecurity that they're feeling.
- [14:31]
Ted Lowe
So, yeah, this happened to my son. You're talking about boys like, you know, he, he got bullied. I wouldn't call it like super aggressive bullying, but he did get bullied by another young man that we know. He happens to be from a single parent home. And it's been a tough home life, just frankly hasn't gone exactly the way he wanted it to or anyone in that family wanted it to. And so all that hurt and all the confusion lives in that little boy's brain, but it's being expressed with his fists or with his hand or with his mouth. You know, he's like saying things and doing things, just he doesn't know what to do. He's just mad and he's angry at everything. And so who happened to be there? Oh, my son was there. So you're unfortunately, the kid that's getting bullied today, and, and I, I told my son, I was like, listen, this is not an excuse. We're. We're not excusing the behavior that happened to you. It was wrong. We're not going to say it's okay, but this is an explanation as to maybe why it happened. And so then, you know, you talk to your kid about that and say, let's, let's try to, like, discuss this with the bully and, and have a good, you know, conversation about, you know, why we need to respect each other and that sort of thing and understand that there's some hurt there.
- [15:36]
Bobby Lewis
You know, when our kids would bring stories home, we would say, wow, it sounds like that kid's got. Probably got a lot going on. Again, not to excuse it.
- [15:45]
Ted Lowe
No, it's not an excuse.
- [15:46]
Bobby Lewis
It's not excuse it. But just to go, oh, to help them understand because they feel like it's who they are is being attacked instead of, hey, let's see what's behind the bully. Another reason that kids will bully is they just have a lack of social skills or empathy. Maybe they weren't taught or they just struggle. They just struggle with seeing it. You know, it's like you were saying earlier, you know, some kids, it's. It's tunnel vision, and I just see me and I don't see Adami. And for those kind of kids, they're naturally wired that way. Maybe they're a little bit aggressive. We've got to focus on our kid to channel that, right?
- [16:22]
BJ Foster
Yeah. Well, that's one of the saddest things is there's a stat from the Anti Bullying alliance that kids who have special needs are twice as likely to be bullied. And the interesting thing is, is that sometimes, or in a good amount of cases, those kids end up becoming bullies themselves because they've dealt with the behavior and all of a sudden they've got pain, and now they're kind of working that out in this way as well. So.
- [16:48]
Bobby Lewis
Oh, it's just what we were just saying. Right. It was modeled. Of course they are. Right. This is just what you do.
- [16:54]
Ted Lowe
Yeah. So we've identified why kids bully. But if you're a dad who's listening to this and you're like, oh, that sounds like my son, or that sounds like my daughter, here are some action steps that you can do that might help you in that process to kind of move your kid away from that bullying.
- [17:07]
BJ Foster
Or even if they're not, even if you don't think that it might True.
- [17:11]
Ted Lowe
Yeah, yeah, yeah. One of the action steps that we want to point you towards is be a support person for your child. Be there to talk to them. Be a safe space for them to just share and talk and get the pain and the struggles that they're feeling out. They need someone to vent to. You can be that guy, and you should be that guy. And here's a couple of things you can say back to them, a few examples that will work if your kids are confused or hurting. One, Hey, I know that there's a lot going on, and maybe you're getting fun of. I'm never going to make fun of you, son, Daughter. I will never push you around. I will never ignore you when you're hurting, and I will help you stay positive when things are hard. Those are simple sentences. They maybe don't seem profound, but that's gonna land right in your kid's head, in your heart, and they're gonna remember, oh, man, like, I'm getting bullied and pushed around. Dad's not doing that. Dad's got my back.
- [17:58]
BJ Foster
I. I think we need to talk to our kids about bullying and really just kind of asking them, you know, about just sort of the culture of, you know, their school, how people treat each other. Start the conversation away from them. Gradually move. How do you think. How do your friends treat one another? How to. And then before you finally go to them, like, how do you then treat other people? If you start away from them a little bit, it gives them the feeling of safety that they can share without you kind of coming down on them. And particularly the way that you react. Boy, how's it. And maybe even share your own experiences and maybe times when you have treated people wrong and treated people a bad way. And, gosh, you know, have you ever. Have you ever done this like, I have? And. And then, hey, what do you think the results were? You know, how do you think other people. How did it make you feel? How do you think other people feel when you, you know, how can. What should you do when you see bullying behavior? You know, that we should kind of stand up and say, hey, let's not do that. Like, you know, stand up and defend the people that are. That are taking it. And also kind of treat. Making sure you're treating people with kindness. That's good.
- [19:11]
Ted Lowe
Yeah, this. This hits kids differently than adults. Like, adults get bullied, too, but it's. Adults tend to kind of move on. Like, okay, whatever, you know, I'll keep going. Kids don't do that as much, and it's probably because they're still learning who they are. And every little Barb kind of, you know, leaves a bigger dent. I asked my son about this. We were having that same conversation you just talked about. We were talking through, have you ever seen anyone do any of this bullying? Have you ever heard it? And blah, blah, blah. And he said, yeah, dad, you. I was like, whoa, what? And I thought he meant I bullied him. He goes, no, no, no. You got bullied, dad. And I saw it and I said, what are you talking about? I don't remember this.
- [19:47]
BJ Foster
My mom.
- [19:49]
Ted Lowe
No, it wasn't mom. It wasn't Mom. And he reminded me, we went to the gas station together once, and we had a jug to fill up instead of our car. And so we walked up and I asked the guy who was pumping gas, like, hey, can I just give you some cash and we'll fill up the jug? Or whatever. And he's like, yeah, no problem. I went and I paid inside or whatever, and I came back out, and he had actually left, but I'd already paid. So I went to fill up the jug, and the guy who was there in the car thought I cut him in line. And he got out yelling and screaming at me. I'm like, trying to explain the situation. Like, no, no, I paid with cash and here's the receipt, and blah, blah, blah. Guy was having none of it. And so I just was like, well, I already paid, so I'm filling up my thing. So I started to fill up the jug, and he looked right at my son, and he said, I hope you don't grow up to be like your dad.
- [20:28]
Bobby Lewis
Whoa.
- [20:29]
Ted Lowe
And I was like, ooh, okay, well, that's kind of a rude thing. Whatever. And I got up and I left, and I was. And I didn't think about it again because it was just a guy who felt slighted and he was trying to get a jab in or whatever.
- [20:40]
BJ Foster
I would have been angry for a week.
- [20:41]
Ted Lowe
Well, I mean, I was irrit. But, like, I'm like, whatever. I'm never gonna see this guy again. Like, I'm not gonna let that ruin my life. Sure. So when I asked my son about this the other day, it's been a full year since that happened. And he said, I think about it all the time, and it really hurt me because I wanna be like my dad. And I was like, you've been holding this in your heart for a year, and I just didn't know. So even if it's not your kid getting bullied, your kid seeing others get bullied or just, you know, seeing dad in this case get bullied, like that's gonna rest in their heart. And I told him. I was like, buddy, I'm sorry. Like, I, I didn't know. I had no idea that you were holding onto this. And I told him the truth. I was like, I didn't think about that guy once in the last year because I don't know who it is. And he was having a bad day and it was a miscommunication and we moved on. But I was really glad he told me that because I never would have thought about it. And it really was something that was bothering his little 10 year old heart. And we talked about bullying in a very real way right then. And I hope that it sticks with him so whenever he does encounter bullying in the future, he can remember this con we had and say, listen, it's okay. Like we, we can talk it out, we can figure this out, but don't, don't let it ruin your day, you
- [21:50]
BJ Foster
know, Or a year.
- [21:52]
Ted Lowe
Or a year. Yeah. I mean, I felt so bad. It was like a year.
- [21:55]
BJ Foster
A year.
- [21:56]
Ted Lowe
You've been thinking about this. I. It was tough. It was a tough dad moment, you know?
- [21:59]
BJ Foster
Sure.
- [22:01]
Bobby Lewis
I think one of the most important things we can do to help our kids with bullying is model. It's just a model empathy. Like when someone, you know, is doing something that we think, well, that's silly or that's ridiculous or what a goofball or whatever. How are we talking about that in front of our kids? Because they're listening. So we got a model. We got to model this. We can, we can forget that they, they see this. One of the most vivid memories for me in middle school was there was a kid that walked in, he had special needs, and he walks to the urinal and he pushes his pants down all the way to his ankles to the floor. Well, it's a bathroom full of kids, you know, in between classes. And kids went nuts laughing and making a big deal about it. And it just freaked the poor kid out. And he just starts walking with his pants around his ankles out of the thing. And I knew him and I walked up and grabbed him by the arms. Mark, pull up your pants. Kids were so mad at me, and
- [23:09]
Ted Lowe
I wanted him to be further.
- [23:10]
Bobby Lewis
They wanted to, yes. They wanted to walk out in the hall and it was going to be legendary that this had happened. And I look back and I was thinking, wow, this was some of my friends doing, doing this. And then they were mad at me for not doing. And I thought we got to model this. We got to teach them, you know, to step in. And that's not always easy.
- [23:29]
Ted Lowe
Yeah. So your friends, they were badmouthing you after this?
- [23:32]
Bobby Lewis
Oh, they were so angry. They wanted it to escalate. And, you know, when I look back now, and it was all my buddies who I love, who I would at the time, you know, we've been talking about, it's not my kid. I guarantee you, if you'd even asked me as a middle schooler, would any of your friends do that? No, they would never be that mean. And they.
- [23:52]
Ted Lowe
Until they did.
- [23:53]
Bobby Lewis
Until they did. And so. And I'm sure I did something me like that as well. But we got to model empathy and teach them to step in. Right. I love that, you guys. This has been an important conversation. And just once again, I'm learning from both of you. But once again, I go, wow, I didn't think this many bullies existed. And I certainly didn't think, well, maybe my kid's one of them. So it's something good for help us to process with our kids. So with that, we'll jump into the pro move of the week. And bj, just like you were talking, ask your kids about how people treat one another at their school. Have a conversation about bullying this week and see what you can uncover.
- [24:34]
BJ Foster
And don't use the word bully. Don't use the word bully. Use the behaviors.
- [24:38]
Ted Lowe
You'll get better results.
- [24:38]
BJ Foster
Use the behaviors.
- [24:39]
Bobby Lewis
Yeah, that's good. And we'll put those in the show notes, you guys, thanks. This was a little bit tough. You just.
- [24:45]
BJ Foster
That's. That's.
- [24:46]
Bobby Lewis
It's heartbreaking, but I'm so glad we talked about it. So good. Thank you for hanging out. And thank you guys for hanging out. Hey, could you do us a favor and go into YouTube and subscribe? That will help other dads to find us. You'll also find other great resources there, links there. So thank you for that. But most of all, thank you for joining us. We know you and your kids will be glad that you did.
- [25:08]
Podcast Narrator
Thanks again for listening to the All Pro dad podcast. Behind every episode is our amazing team producer, Haley Mwat, audio and video editor Buck Buchanan, and production coordinator Corey Walliffe. All Pro dad is the fatherhood program of the nonprofit Family first, along with our motherhood program imom. We exist to help you love your family well. So remember, if you have more questions than answers, then you're probably in the right place. See you next time.