Intelligent Machines 805: Doomers, Gloomers, Bloomers, and Zoomers – Detailed Summary

Release Date: February 6, 2025
Hosts: Leo Laporte, Jeff Jarvis, Mike Elgin
Guest: Zach Kass, Former Head of Go-to-Market at OpenAI
Podcast Network: TWiT.tv

1. Introduction and Rebranding

Leo Laporte inaugurates the episode by announcing the show's rebranding from "This Week in Google" to "Intelligent Machines," reflecting a deeper focus on Artificial Intelligence (AI). He maintains the familiar panelists, Paris Martineau and Jeff Jarvis, while introducing Mike Elgin as a temporary stand-in for Paris Martineau.

Leo Laporte [00:00]:
"It's time for Intelligent Machines, a brand new show. Well, it's the same old show, really. We've rebranded."

2. Guest Introduction: Zach Kass

The show welcomes Zach Kass, formerly of OpenAI, who served as the head of Go-to-Market from 2021 to 2023. Zach is an AI accelerationist, advocating for the rapid advancement and integration of AI technologies into various sectors.

Leo Laporte [04:05]:
"We've got the former head of Go-to-Market for OpenAI, Zach Kass. Thank you for being here."

Zach shares his personal reasons for leaving OpenAI, citing family health issues and a desire to return home. He expresses optimism about his decision, mentioning personal milestones such as meeting his wife.

Zach Kass [04:12]:
"My parents got sick... I grew up in Santa Barbara, by the way, so moving home also."

3. AI Taxonomy: Doomers, Gloomers, Bloomers, and Zoomers

Jeff Jarvis introduces Reid Hoffman's taxonomy of AI perspectives, categorizing enthusiasts and critics into Doomers, Gloomers, Bloomers, and Zoomers. This framework serves as the foundation for the episode's discussion.

Jeff Jarvis [07:35]:
"Doomers are the people who think it's going to destroy us all... Bloomers... Zoomers are accelerationists."

Zach Kass discusses his alignment within this taxonomy, identifying primarily as a Zoomer but expressing reservations about labeling.

Zach Kass [07:35]:
"I think it's a nice taxonomy because it's, like, evenly divided. But, like, in reality... I don't think I'm willing to stand by my belief that I studied history at Berkeley."

4. AI Accelerationism and Societal Improvement

Zach Kass elaborates on his accelerationist stance, arguing that technological innovation, particularly AI, is the primary driver of societal progress. He contends that free-market dynamics, bolstered by AI advancements, will inherently solve many of the world's enduring problems without extensive governmental intervention.

Zach Kass [06:53]:
"Technology is the single thing that consistently moves the world forward. I certainly believe in its power to continue doing so."

He envisions a post-scarcity world where abundant resources, powered by AI and innovations like fusion energy, lead to global peace and prosperity.

Zach Kass [09:42]:
"I think technology solves problems. I think if you look back long enough, you realize that almost every problem that we've ever faced is not solved by policy, but in fact solved by innovation."

5. AI Safety and Potential Dangers

The conversation shifts to AI safety concerns, referencing Steve Gibson's show on AI jailbreaking. While Leo and Jeff express skepticism about the feasibility of securing AI systems against misuse, Zach Kass remains optimistic about the ability of technological countermeasures to mitigate such risks.

Leo Laporte [10:42]:
"We talked about Steve Gibson doing a whole show on AI jailbreaking... there's not an AI that hasn't been used to create malware."

Zach Kass [11:25]:
"It's very easy for people to point at these outlier events that could be caused by technology. And for every outlier event that technology can cause, there's a solution to that event that technology will create."

Mike Elgin introduces the issue of incentives, highlighting that companies may lack motivation to address societal harms caused by AI, such as addiction to social media platforms.

Mike Elgin [12:19]:
"If you can, if you profit or we benefit from people's lives being kind of messed up, then their lives are going to be messed up."

6. Consulting and Advising on AI Integration

Zach Kass discusses his current role as an AI consultant, advising governments and Fortune 1000 companies on integrating AI technologies to navigate the rapidly evolving landscape. His work focuses on identifying trends and preparing organizations to leverage AI effectively.

Zach Kass [20:58]:
"We try to point to trends and interesting events on the horizon that give people some way to ground where things are going."

He emphasizes simplifying AI adoption tailored to the specific needs and markets of his clients, reducing the overwhelm often experienced by executives.

Zach Kass [22:05]:
"We just help businesses figure out, do their constituents actually want this thing?"

7. Deep Seek and AI Models from China

The episode delves into the emergence of Deep Seek, an AI model from China, and its implications. Zach Kass views Deep Seek's open-source nature as a positive development, promoting competition and democratizing AI capabilities. However, concerns are raised about national security, particularly regarding data privacy and the Chinese Communist Party's (CCP) data exfiltration through apps like TikTok.

Zach Kass [25:07]:
"Deep Seek R1 is a huge win and we should celebrate it... consider it a win insofar as it's challenging the norm that the frontier model costs a lot."

Mike Elgin critiques the hype around Deep Seek, pointing out inaccuracies in reported development costs and questioning its practical impact compared to established models from OpenAI and Google.

Mike Elgin [37:11]:
"The data point of $5.6 million... is a completely BS number."

Jeff Jarvis acknowledges the positive aspects of increased competition but remains cautious about the potential for continued AI safety breaches.

8. AI Ethics and Bias in Models

The hosts discuss the political biases inherent in various AI models, noting that many mainstream chatbots trend towards a centrist or left-leaning stance due to moderation policies. In contrast, models like Yann LeCun's advocate for AI limitations based on their understanding of real-world intelligence.

Jeff Jarvis [08:10]:
"I'm a little bit of all of the above, depending on my mindset at the moment."

Zach Kass [09:34]:
"But it is so easy for people to point at these like outlier events that could be caused by technology... measures and countermeasures is this proud tradition that AI will observe just like every other technology."

9. Future Guests and Continued Exploration

Leo Laporte hints at future episodes featuring prominent AI figures like Ray Kurzweil, aiming to provide listeners with diverse expert insights into the evolving AI landscape.

Leo Laporte [16:15]:
"We have AI news, and I want to ask Mike why his headline at Machine Society is why you can deep six the deep seek hype... we're going stealing his name, but he couldn't make it. But he will be here."

10. Conclusion and Next Steps

As the episode wraps up, Leo reiterates the show's commitment to exploring AI's multifaceted impact, blending expert interviews with timely AI news. The rebranding to "Intelligent Machines" signifies a broader and more nuanced approach to discussing AI beyond mere chatbots, encompassing advancements in medicine, healthcare, education, and more.

Leo Laporte [28:10]:
"We thought we needed a show that covered this. And I thought the name Intelligent Machines was apt instead of something about AI because we're really not just talking about, you know, AI chatbots. We're talking about, you know, the computing at the edge."

Notable Quotes:

• Zach Kass [06:23]:
  "Technology is the single thing that consistently moves the world forward."

• Leo Laporte [07:35]:
  "Sometimes I'm a doomer, sometimes I'm a psychotic zoomer."

• Jeff Jarvis [08:10]:
  "You think that's a nutty point of view, Zach?"

• Zach Kass [09:42]:
  "I think technology solves problems... Drive down the cost of water, drive down the cost of food..."

• Zach Kass [23:50]:
  "We invented something out of necessity and we used it right away... future is actually not going to be informed by what a machine can do. It's going to be informed by what we actually want that machine to do."

• Jeff Jarvis [25:07]:
  "There's a huge difference between DeepSeek R1, the model breakthrough, which I will remind everyone, is open source."

Key Insights:

1. AI as a Catalyst for Progress: The episode underscores the belief that AI, as a technological innovation, is pivotal in driving societal advancements, potentially more so than past revolutions like the Industrial Revolution or the invention of the printing press.

2. Accelerationism vs. Regulation: A core debate highlights the tension between rapid AI development (accelerationism) and the need for regulatory measures to ensure safety and ethical use.

3. Global AI Competition: The emergence of models like Deep Seek from China signifies a competitive and open-source-driven AI landscape, challenging the dominance of Western AI firms and democratizing access to advanced AI technologies.

4. AI Safety Challenges: Despite advancements, securing AI systems against misuse remains a significant concern, with experts differing on the feasibility of implementing effective countermeasures.

5. Consulting and Advising: Zach Kass's role exemplifies the increasing demand for expertise in integrating AI into business and government operations, navigating both technological and societal implications.

6. Ethical and Political Biases: The discussion acknowledges inherent biases in AI models based on their training and moderation policies, raising questions about neutrality and fairness in AI-driven decision-making.

7. Future of AI Integration: The rebranding to "Intelligent Machines" reflects an evolving focus on AI's comprehensive role across various sectors, beyond conventional applications like chatbots, encompassing areas like healthcare, education, and security.

Conclusion:

The inaugural episode of "Intelligent Machines" successfully sets the stage for an in-depth exploration of AI's impact on society, technology, and various industries. By engaging with experts like Zach Kass and dissecting contemporary AI developments, the show promises to deliver insightful and balanced discussions on one of the most transformative technologies of our time.