Podcast Summary: Intelligent Machines 825: The Evil Clown of Middletown

Broadcast Date: June 26, 2025
Hosts: Leo Laporte, Paris Martineau, Jeff Jarvis
Guest: Richard Gingris, former Vice President of News at Google

1. Introduction and Guest Overview

The episode kicks off with hosts Leo Laporte, Paris Martineau, and Jeff Jarvis welcoming their returning guest, Richard Gingris, who recently retired from his role as Vice President of News at Google. Richard's extensive experience in the intersection of technology and journalism sets the stage for an insightful discussion on the evolving landscape of news in the age of artificial intelligence (AI).

Notable Quote:
Leo Laporte introduces Richard, stating, "Our guest this week, Richard Gingris, just retired as vice president of news at Google. We'll talk about the future of news, AI slop and more." (00:00)

2. Richard Gingris’s New Endeavors

Richard shares his transition from Google, expressing optimism about the future of news despite the challenges posed by AI. He outlines his involvement in two main initiatives:

• Global Research Institute for Journalism: A think tank focused on the role of journalism in society, addressing public policy, media control by governments, trust in AI, and sustainable business models.

• Local News Innovation with Village Media: Richard emphasizes the importance of reinventing local news through community engagement and sustainable advertising, serving as the Chairman of Village Media to expand their successful model.

Notable Quote:
Richard Barber on the future of news: "Figuring out savvy business models that don't rely on philanthropy, figuring out smart uses of AI. And there are many smart uses of AI. So I have great reasons for optimism, but we have to take those steps forward." (06:26)

3. Trust Crisis in News Media

The conversation delves into the pervasive trust issues plaguing news organizations, amplified by the rise of AI-generated content ("AI slop"). Richard articulates that the fragmentation and polarization of news sources have historically contributed to trust deficits, a problem escalated by digital platforms.

Notable Quote:
Richard on trust in news: "We have a huge trust issue with news. And not surprisingly, nor is it new." (09:44)

4. AI’s Dual Role in Journalism

The panel explores AI's potential to both undermine and bolster journalism:

• Risks: AI can generate misleading or low-quality content, making it harder for consumers to discern reliable sources.

• Benefits: AI tools can enhance research capabilities, organize vast amounts of data, and assist in investigative journalism by identifying trends and anomalies that human journalists might miss.

Notable Quote:
Richard on AI benefits: "There is actually no facet of the journalistic profession that can't be improved and enhanced by the use of AI." (21:04)

5. Innovations in News Business Models

Richard emphasizes the necessity for news organizations to innovate their business models to remain profitable and trustworthy in the digital age. He highlights successful examples:

• National Level: The New York Times employs a subscription-based model effectively, focusing on high-value content that attracts dedicated readers.

• Local Level: Village Media demonstrates that advertising can sustain local news by targeting community-specific information needs, such as local deals and events.

Notable Quote:
Richard on profitability: "It certainly can be profitable and people are proving that. I mean, I think one of the dynamics that's wrong... you have both the legacy players... and then on the emerging side... they've been led to believe there is no commercial future... that's incorrect." (14:09)

6. AI and Copyright in Journalism

The discussion shifts to the contentious issue of AI and copyright, particularly how large language models (LLMs) like those developed by OpenAI and Anthropic utilize copyrighted material for training. They reference recent legal cases affirming that transformative use, such as tokenization of text, may fall under fair use, though challenges remain regarding the sourcing and licensing of content.

Notable Quote:
Richard on copyright: "And I... believe Thomas Jefferson would be appalled by today's copyright and patent laws, which in his view stifle the advancement of knowledge." (50:13)

7. Ethical Considerations and Regulation

Jeff Jarvis and Richard discuss the ethical implications of AI in news dissemination and the broader information ecosystem. They touch upon the potential for AI to enforce or undermine free speech and the importance of nuanced regulation that balances innovation with protection against misuse.

Notable Quote:
Richard on ethical AI: "We have to stop pointing fingers at others as solutions to our problems." (55:14)

8. Practical AI Tools for Journalists

The panel highlights specific AI tools and applications that can aid journalists:

• Content Analysis: Tools that assess the quality and bias of written pieces.

• Data Management: AI systems like Google's Pinpoint for organizing and mining large datasets to uncover hidden stories.

• Personalized News Feeds: While beneficial for tailored content delivery, there’s concern about siloed information consumption limiting exposure to diverse perspectives.

Notable Quote:
Richard on newsroom AI adoption: "Any newsroom that ignores the capabilities of AI is a newsroom that's ignoring its future." (21:04)

9. Closing Discussions and Light-Hearted Segments

The episode concludes with more casual interactions, including laughter over AI-generated content like the "Evil Clown of Middletown" and discussions on AI-generated voices. The hosts experiment with AI personal assistants, showcasing both the potential and current limitations of these technologies.

Notable Quote:
Ivan's humorous take on AI: "I'm marrying the local tennis pro. Oh, that's nice. Well, there are some downsides. I have to oil him every three weeks." (85:14)

Conclusion

Intelligent Machines 825 offers a comprehensive exploration of the interplay between AI and journalism, underscored by Richard Gingris's expertise and forward-thinking initiatives. The episode balances technical insights with engaging dialogue, providing listeners with a nuanced understanding of both the challenges and opportunities that AI presents to the future of news.

Timestamps Reference:

• Each notable quote is accompanied by a timestamp (MM:SS) for easy location within the full transcript.