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MacBreak Weekly 1028: The Finder Guy of Your Choosing
02:16:34
Meet the New Siri AI
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- [00:00]
A
Andy, it's time for Mac Break Weekly. Andy and Christina are here. Jason Snell is still in Cupertino. Micah Sargent joins us as we talk about everything Apple announced at wwdc. Some say the keynote was meh. Others are very excited. What do you think? We'll find out what our panelists think next. Podcasts you love from people you Trust. This is TWiT. This is Mac Break Weekly, episode 1028 recorded Tuesday, June 9, 2026. The Finder Guy of your choosing. It's time for Mac Break Weekly, the show. We cover the latest news from Apple and there is some news. Christina Warren is here. She's back from Build. Did you have a good time?
- [00:50]
B
I did. I had a great time. There was actually a lot of cool stuff at Build.
- [00:54]
A
There was.
- [00:55]
B
There really was that we can, I think, talk about and maybe in context to how now we've seen all the major, you know, tech developer things we can kind of compare. But yeah, Build was a lot of fun.
- [01:05]
A
They seven new models. Microsoft announced. AI models.
- [01:10]
B
Yeah.
- [01:11]
A
Which is quite a few. They also announced their new agentic AI. AI was definitely on the table at Build. And. And I hope you get one of these. You have a DGX Spark, don't you? Oh, no, you have.
- [01:23]
B
No, no, I have the framework. Yeah. No, I want that RTX Spark. They're not gonna that. I would definitely wish that.
- [01:31]
A
You're a valued employee.
- [01:33]
B
I mean, look, I'm sure that the list of people who want that is very long and I'm sure that I'm not on it, but price is right too. I was going to say I don't want to think about how much the 128 gig version of that will cost, but I want one. And so if anybody is listening to the MacBreak weekly podcast from Microsoft, please
- [01:52]
A
let it be known they listen to see what the competition's up to. That's Andy Inocco, who is now competing with every website in the world is new inotco.com.
- [02:03]
C
well, see, this is where I've got my marketing strategy. If I'm making up all the facts as I go along, I'm going to be the only source of that information. You see, if I'm. If I'm. Well, no, I'm saying if I'm. Like I said, if I just. If I just report on what's going on at wwdc. Okay. Factual stuff. Okay. Everybody knows what the name of, you know, Siri AI is. Everybody knows the relationship with Gemini models. But if I were to say that Basically, they're moving the entire operation to Canada. Canada. And they're going to be making chocolate chip cookies. Okay, that would be a scoop. I'm the only person who has that information. And I feel as though with some little SEO wizardry, I think that we can turn this into at least an $800 a year industry.
- [02:48]
A
All you have to do is add people with knowledge of the situation say that's all you have to add.
- [02:55]
C
And a shaky grip on reality. Just.
- [02:58]
A
Jason is still in Cupertino. He decided to stay over. So Mr. Snell is not here tonight, but Mr. Micah Sargent is. Hey, Micah.
- [03:06]
D
Hello, Leo. Hello, everyone.
- [03:08]
A
Micah joined me yesterday 10am Pacific, 1pm Eastern, for an hour and 20 minutes of excitement with the WWDC keynote. And that is our topic of the show today. Now, I think most people who watch this show would probably know what happened yesterday.
- [03:25]
D
One would think we're gonna.
- [03:27]
A
I'm gonna go through it, you know, bit by bit, but what do you think, Micah? Just know now that we have some time to reflect, we're out of the reality distortion field. What do you think the big announcement of yesterday was? Was it the slider for opacity in liquid glass?
- [03:40]
C
Was that it?
- [03:41]
D
I think that this is the thing, Leo. So much of what ends up getting dispersed into the ecosystem is based on the sort of memeability of the moment. And by that I just mean the little distilled moments. And a lot of this wasn't able to be distill down into a small thing. But what you're talking about, that reference there about a slider that changes how translucent liquid glass is, that is something that people can clip and share and go, finally they're listening to us. So, yeah, I think in some ways, if we're looking at the rate at which I saw references and excitement about
- [04:22]
A
this YouTube shorts on that.
- [04:24]
D
Yeah, exactly. Then, yeah, that's the big news. But I think for Apple, they probably felt that their big news was what came later in the show, which is why they got the stuff out of the way at first with security and safety and design updates.
- [04:38]
A
Andy, I'm sure you were watching with interest. Was there anything that you thought was particularly YouTubeable?
- [04:47]
C
There are a lot of mostly broad things I will say that I will highlight. Since we're talking about liquid glass again, Apple does not need to retract. They don't need to apologize. However, there was a. There was something that was so masterfully worded that I actually like wrote it down word for word. This is as close as Apple will ever get to saying, yeah, that was a pretty big mistake and we're sorry. When they're talking in the design section where they're talking about liquid glass, we take a, here's what we do. We take a bold leap forward, then continue to innovate. Part of it is listening to users and developers and, and our team really appreciates your feedback. Yeah, like, I mean, I thought, I thought they made, they made some, some nice steps and some of them, like explicitly like addressing every single blog post that came along says, yeah, we're going to make sure like the round fixing
- [05:42]
A
rounded corners, like, stood out to me. It's like, wow.
- [05:45]
C
Yeah.
- [05:46]
A
How did that happen in the first place? Because they were all different.
- [05:48]
C
Yeah. Yeah. The toolbar across the tops of apps now going to be more uniform. We're going to try to make sure that when we put something on top of other interface, we don't make impossible for you to read what's supposed to be behind it. Like all these things. We didn't say, they didn't say, well, we screwed up that, but we fixed it. We fixed it, we fixed it. But they really wanted to make sure that they were as contrite as they could possibly be without inviting a class action suit by saying, yeah, we shipped something that we're really not proud of and we have to put out this basically apology tour of releases.
- [06:21]
A
They actually sent us to the design studio. They said, stacy's in the design studio to make all those apologies. But they didn't apologize. They just said, we're going to make this.
- [06:31]
C
They didn't have to. There was, there was overreaction. But again, I like the fact that they acknowledge that. No, this wasn't a. Gosh, I was, I was braced for, for the phrase we often hear, which is PR customers love the new butterfly keyboard with half a millimeter of travel. And we're happy to say we've now made it even better. They just basically said, yeah, we're listening to your feedback. We're going to iterate and innovate. And by the way, here's some specific things that you don't have to ask us about anymore because we fixed it.
- [06:59]
A
So, Christina, well done. What, what did you see? Mean, I'm. It's ridiculous for me to say pick one thing, but just, it's fun to start with dessert. So we're going to start with dessert.
- [07:09]
B
Yeah. No, I mean, I think honestly talking about a little bit about kind of like the, the retraction of sorts of liquid glass was actually really interesting to See, I mean I think the big headline thing obviously was, was all the, the Siri AI stuff like that, that was going to be the big thing. But I was actually very happy to see them do a retraction of sorts. Even though they didn't do a full apology for, you know, Liquid Glass. Someone in the chat, you know, mentioned that you know, poor Syracuse is stuck on like the Tahoe UI for forever on its Mac Pro. And I will say like that they mentioned it in the State of the Union but it didn't get any other mentions from what I could tell. But kind of the fact that like the Intel Macs are now officially dead, like that makes me sad a little bit. I do feel, I'm going to be honest, I feel like especially the fact they're supporting the latest version of iOS going all the way back to the iPhone 11. I'm like, you know what? You could have given us another year for, for, for the Intel Max.
- [08:04]
A
Like I was shocked. I launched Steam the other day and it said don't. This isn't going to keep running. Next time you better get an updated version. I mean you think they would have updated Steam right now?
- [08:14]
B
Yeah, I mean I think Steam has been kind of in a weird spot where there's not a whole lot of reason for Steam to want to work with Apple and, and, and Apple as not really done a lot to make it clear they want to work for Steam. Like it seems like Apple still lives in this universe where they think that everybody who has a Mac buys games from the Mac App Store which is, you know, just not reality. But yeah, I mean that, that it will be interesting to see like, kind of like because I still have an intel imac that is still very serviceable and I don't know if I'm going to put Linux on it or if I am going to upgrade to Tahoe or what.
- [08:46]
A
Natural for Linux is what it is.
- [08:48]
B
Yeah, well, yes, and, but here's the problem. Those T2 chips are difficult for Linux to deal with a little bit. So there are some, some problems there. But, but I'm sure people will come up with solutions. But I will say this, this was not part of the keynote but I was jealous of this because I saw all over social media people who were there in person got the little finder guy pins. Yeah, that.
- [09:10]
D
Dang it. Not the new finder guy. I want that.
- [09:14]
A
For the first time in 12 years I'm unhappy that I get to go to an Apple effect.
- [09:18]
C
Don't worry, it's probably $130 on eBay. On ebay, yeah.
- [09:21]
B
I'm sure that it is. And I will not be. I will not be buying that. If someone wants to send me one, I will pay like. No, not 130. I paid like 20, but like that.
- [09:30]
C
I'll do 21.
- [09:32]
A
Oh, no bidding.
- [09:33]
D
No bidding against 25. I'll do 50.
- [09:37]
C
Okay.
- [09:38]
A
I'm not doing finder 67.
- [09:41]
C
I'll wait for the pin to arrive on Thingiverse and then do there.
- [09:44]
D
There you go.
- [09:44]
C
Yeah, but that was a really good point that you made, Christine. This is, this is going to be an interest. On the one hand, Apple very, very correctly boasted about how this operating system will work all the way back to. Basically, they're not. If your current phone uses can run iOS 26, it will be able to run iOS 27. You're not being orphaned that way. And yet, of course, intel users are being left behind again. Arguably they've had these machines for a long time. It's not as though they're going to stop working. However, there are also. There's. There's a phrase that popped up in the keynote two or three times that Google was also using during the IO keynote.
- [10:25]
A
The.
- [10:25]
C
The. That horrible phrase on our. Most of most. On our most technologically advanced hardware. That's like, oh, God. That means. That is the. The phone that I bought last year is not going to. It's like Apple Intelligence will. Most of Apple Intelligence will work. But when you talk about Siri AI, this stuff we'll be talking about next, the stuff that they spent the entire keynote talking about. Sorry, if you've got an M1 or an M2, I think the Macs are like M3 or better. I think the iPads are M4 or better. Right. And a minimum of 12 gigabytes of RAM, like on all these devices. So there are a lot of people that are going. They're not, again, not necessarily going to be left behind. It's not as though iOS27 won't run. It's not as though 28, 29, 30 won't run. But again, Apple didn't spend. Apple spent like the, the most compact hiccup saying, oh, by the way, we've done a million different tiny little improvements and increases of features. Basically, so much new stuff. And there's like a screenshot where they have to zoom out to fit all the text in there. And I haven't even gotten down to this is I screenshot it so I can give it to Gemini or something, say, please turn this into A list that I can actually read. But that's. And that's the stuff that we're all going to. We're all going to be have available to us. But that's not the stuff that Apple wanted to show off. Apple wanted to show off. The future of Apple is all this stuff that unless you have a machine that's pretty new. We were looking forward to you enjoying these like in two years time when you finally spill a Pepsi onto the keyboard of your M2 MacBook. Yeah.
- [11:55]
A
Here's the screen they put up. This is I think from 9 to 5 Mac. Good luck reading all of that.
- [12:02]
C
That's like the end of the contract that Willy Wonka made the kids sign before they gave the tour.
- [12:08]
A
I do see something that says updated liquid glass in there. And they and David Schaub's also pointing out and I think this is a, this is a big one too that Apple finally retracted or this was on the platform State of the Union. I think the menu icons or at least gave you a little bit more flexibility on how your menu icons appear. So that's. That was another complaint a lot of people had. But that's the blogiverse. That's not really what we care about at this point, right?
- [12:37]
B
Or no, I mean I don't think so. I mean look, I am happy about the changes that they. The details do matter, right. And like the fact that they listen to the. The corner radius which I don't actually think is a minor thing. The fact that they said that it's smaller now actually makes me happy. I'm like oh, I might actually be able to use my Mac and not have it in more space mode. Yay. And the fact that like they brought color back to the sidebar is like no, the details matter. And I even if it wasn't a full retrenchment, the fact that they acknowledged that there were usability issues the first go around which yes there were scad to see and hopefully that will, you know, pay off better as we go into the that the crux of what
- [13:14]
A
they discuss there was an unusual amount of attention I think there was because of Apple's failure to wwdc. By the way, here's the little finder guy pin. I could not find this on ebay but Jammer B had a picture of it.
- [13:27]
C
We have to start a betting pool on if they name them and if they name them what they're going to name. I hope they, I hope they let him be like don't name him at all. Let us all Understand Little finder guy. He's the little finder guy in our relationship. Just like our relationship with God, we. We create the little finder guide that we need in our lives at any one given moment.
- [13:47]
A
Yes, the finder guide of your choice.
- [13:49]
C
I'm sorry.
- [13:53]
A
I think that Apple open the door
- [13:55]
C
to little finder guy and little finder guy will finally come.
- [13:59]
A
Micah and I observe this actually as we're watching, as they're starting to roll out more and more about the AI is they better be darn careful not to show anything they cannot produce. Okay.
- [14:12]
C
This is another thing that, again, it wasn't specifically. There was so much subtext here about we are not going to screw up the way that we did before. Exactly. Every single demo was, I have a device in my hand, I'm running it and you can see it running on the thing. So again, we're still noticeably latent too.
- [14:31]
A
I mean, it wasn't instant, it wasn't.
- [14:33]
C
But that's fine. This is not a mock up. This is actually running. And also the other question which I didn't actually consider until this morning when I was reviewing things like did. I'm not saying, I'm not saying that Apple did not make any promise as to when, when Siri AI features will ship versus iOS 27, but I assumed that it would be. The beta would start at least around the same time. Now I'm trying to figure. That's one of those details I'm trying to, I'm trying to figure out right now. Did they actually say that when the bait. When the, when the, when iOS27 actually ships this fall, some iteration of Siri AI in beta will also ship? Or did they simply basically announce this as something that is a work in progress that will ship on its own time?
- [15:15]
A
I think they were unclear on that.
- [15:18]
C
I'm sorry, I was reading a couple of analysts that were investment analysts who basically said that this is the, this is one of the disappointments of why they. They're downgrading Apple a little bit because it's great that they showed this stuff off, but they're disappointed that they did not show off a firm timetable on when these features are actually going to go.
- [15:34]
A
They said it'll be available this fall in beta.
- [15:37]
C
Okay.
- [15:37]
A
And that implies. In beta, it implies not everything, not all. And I think this is the most important thing, my takeaway from yesterday, the most important thing is all look good, but we really can't judge it until we start.
- [15:53]
C
Sure.
- [15:53]
D
Exactly.
- [15:54]
A
And for instance, even though there was latency in those Demos that they were doing and they were holding up a phone. Remember those are pre recorded and I
- [16:03]
C
believe not necessarily the first shot.
- [16:05]
D
Right?
- [16:05]
A
Yeah. And I also believe that some of those were canned demos. And the reason I said that is there was a session later where four of them are on stage and Mike Rockwell repeats the same exact query he did in the video, in the keynote video. And the tell was he knew ahead of time what the answer was going to be because he said, oh, I don't have a Mike's cooking website. He. So there was a little tell in there and I. So again, this is, you know, this is just me being suspicious now. Has anybody been bold enough? Jason Snell said do not install the developer preview. Micah said, you said you were going to.
- [16:44]
D
Yeah, and I have. The problem is that you have to join a wait list for New Siri. And so, yeah, I don't know, I don't have access to that yet. I have access to some of the features. I was particularly. I mean, I do it every year regardless. I always just do a full imazing backup beforehand so that it's fine. But I was particularly okay with doing it this year because of Apple's focus on reliability. I've run into a number of issues and I think that people should be careful even if it's just frustrations. Those start to add up. But I was hoping to get to try literally anything from the Siri part and frankly that's just not yet possible. We do currently have access to some of the photos, changes and a few other things that we can talk about as we get to it. But yeah, as far as New Siri, not yet.
- [17:42]
A
And Christina says, let's applaud your hat.
- [17:45]
B
Yes, I just noticed your hat and it's fantastic. That is.
- [17:49]
A
Oh, it's a GitHub hat.
- [17:51]
D
So yes, this is one of my favorite hats because it's just, I don't know, it's perfect color. Anyway, I really like this hat. So it happens to have the GitHub
- [18:00]
B
logo on it, which is like the best merch, frankly. That's the best stuff, like when you want to wear it even and you're not even thinking about the brand association.
- [18:07]
A
So yeah, so the first 20 minutes of the keynote felt like an exercise in delayed gratification. Like Apple was saying. Okay, just hold on, just hold on. When I started to talk about the improved CPU scheduler, I thought really now?
- [18:24]
C
But that's great. But that's a great thing that. It's one of those things that says that, yes, you have an old phone. And no, you'll be disappointed later when we pull up that card that says that that's your eight, but something for you iPhone, let me say yes again, saying that things, saying that your old phone is going to feel faster. I think they're throwing out numbers that are going to be proven later on. But, oh, well, the scheduler means that things are, things are many. Things are 30% faster, launch is going to be faster, things are going to feel snappier. And that's again, that's, that's good stuff. Particularly give. Particularly given how clear that the mission of this keynote was to reverse the damage done to Apple's reputation regarding their path on AI. Actually, they had we'll get to it, but no one predicted, although it seems, it seems silly, we didn't in retrospect, that they needed to make a pitch to Australia and the EU and the UK that, look, you don't have to impose all these new regulations about age verification and how we treat kids on our platform. Here is how thoroughly we plan for that on our own. And here are new stuff we're doing partly in response to these new laws that you're making. I was really surprised that that was such a long hunk of the keynote. Obviously, obviously at the start they're not going to use that as like one more thing, as if they do that anymore. But that was. It's hard to remember a different keynote recently in which there wasn't such a clear, please get off our backs, please stop honking down our snorkels. There are people who are exploiting kids on mobile platforms, but we are not one of the companies doing the exploiting. We are one of the companies that are protecting kids from being exploited. So trust us, work with us and don't force us to play chicken with the releases in your entire geographical region, because you're imposing laws that we don't feel that we can technically comply with.
- [20:10]
A
Early on, there was the first appearance, kind of a little foreshadowing of Gaussian splats. Oh, yeah, with the flyover in Maps, which I thought was pretty sweet. Google's been doing something similar, but they showed how the map flyovers now are gonna really look pretty darn good. And then speaking of kids, they did bring their VP of health out to talk about child safety. And I Apple, I don't know. I'm not an expert on what child controls are on the iPhone because I don't have kids anymore, at least not little ones. But it looked like they really focused on that and worked on that. And in order really to, I think, end around, to circumvent or maybe even short circuit governmental regulation in the US State by state, but also in the eu. Go ahead, Christina.
- [21:01]
D
Yeah, please. For sure.
- [21:01]
B
I was gonna say, yeah, that really did stand out to me that they spent so much time on the safety asp, which I do think is important. But that seemed very purposely designed, I think, to your point, to get around like, it's kind of like what the MPAA used to always say, like, you know, regulate yourself before the government does it for you. And this seemed very much to try to be in vain of that. There was a certain irony, right, that like a lot of the, the whole iPad kid phenomenon and that sort of thing, like it exists because of Apple, right? Like whether regardless of what sort of parental controls they put in place or not, a lot of these critiques that people about how much screen time and how much time people spend with their devices as kids is predicated based on the success of iOS, right? Like it just is. And so that's an interesting, I think, needle for Apple to have to thread because on the one hand, they don't want to admit that there's anything wrong with these devices, but on the other hand, and they want you to continue to buy them and they want you to continue to buy a separate device for your child, it sure would be nice if as a family, you could have multiple users with different profiles.
- [22:10]
A
Well, I thought Dr. Desai said this. I thought it was interesting. She said experts say children should not have access to social media under. I think she said 16. I think she said 16.
- [22:22]
C
I could be wrong.
- [22:22]
A
And she also said, and I think this is very important, the defaults in the new child safeties are the ones the experts recommend. So one hour of screen time, that kind of thing, you can change those. They created a website, apple.com child safety, for parents to. And I think this was important too, to help parents understand how to do this. I like Apple's premise, which is, okay, we're going to put the defaults in that make your kids safe, but it is really up to the parents, not government, to decide how to raise your kids. And I think that that was this kind of subtext of all of this.
- [22:58]
C
I think they did a really, really good job of. What I love about these keynotes is that oftentimes, if they're using this time wisely, it's not necessarily here's feature A, feature B, feature C, feature D, here's A, pre. Here's a demo of how it works. It's basically we're going to be releasing a whole bunch of things over the next year. Here is our philosophies behind them and things that. And our messaging. We hope you keep in mind as you think about what our attitude is about.
- [23:22]
A
John, show this. Show my screen so we can go through this slideshow. Because I think this is. And this is really important. These are the things that they care about.
- [23:29]
C
Yeah. They say basically I think there's a. There was a line that. Another one that I basically wanted to write down word for word because it was so precisely put together and a really good single statement that Apple's policy, Apple's philosophy is balancing learning, creativity and connection while establishing boundaries which we provide
- [23:48]
A
parents with guidance when setting time allowances shaped by expert health research.
- [23:54]
C
American Academy and Pediatrics. They had like another almost a bento slide of Here are all the different research firms and health research organizations that we collaborate with and.
- [24:05]
A
And exchange information with of the MPAA rating. Christina One of them was a child safety group that is advocating ratings for kids for software.
- [24:15]
B
No. And they're the esrb. There have been a lot of things out there over the years that have done that. I will say I feel like this website and it's a good website. This website does not exist for parents. This website exists for the government. This website exists so that when they are called into Congress and they need to speak about it that they have an entire litany of things. Because I promise you that the lawy spent as much time on this page as anybody else did.
- [24:42]
A
But I have to say and we've had this conversation. Steve Gibson and I have had this conversation. The best way to do this kind of stuff is not to put it on the application developers, not to put it on meta's shoulders, not to put it on government shoulders, but to put it on the gatekeeper's shoulders. Apple and Google because it's the easiest for them to know what age the user is and to tell apps and they're doing this. There's an API that says which age group this user is in and then let parents who know their kids best determine which age that kid is. Whether it's emotional or physical or chronological. I think that's the best way to do it to me the safest way.
- [25:19]
C
Well also yeah then they were talking about the declared age range API that
- [25:23]
A
they have for development.
- [25:24]
C
They closed this hunk by basically bring. Because they are. They are talking nominally to developers that you have a responsibility. We're going to give you these tools, but it's your responsibility to make sure you take advantage of these things.
- [25:32]
A
Yeah. And I've heard some people say, well, parents just don't raise their kids right. So, so but that's, well that's never the excuse for government to jump in and say, okay, well we're going to raise them for you.
- [25:42]
C
And absolutely right. I mean the thing is like, unless
- [25:45]
A
it's really abusive, I guess, but amongst
- [25:48]
C
the three hour conversation we could have about this, it's like if we have to have an age verification, I think that that's a very good idea. I would trust Google to process that verification data securely and accurate and safely and anonymously and then throw it away. And I would trust Apple to do that. I would not trust whatever lowest contractor that whatever platform would trust with that. And to Apple's credit also, I agree with everybody that this is mostly the reason why they put this in the keynote as opposed to a blog post or a video following up next week was they really wanted to put this front and center to lawmakers, to the public to make sure they're going to win the public perception war. But they also added a whole bunch of really good logical features like basically the ability to basically meter a time allowance. They're calling it time allowances instead of just simply limiting screen time. You can have allowances by category grouping, apps and websites, entertainment, games, social media, that kind of thing. They can also basically time fence access to that stuff and say that, well on the weekends, yeah, you can have lots of fun, whatever you want to do. During school hours you can only access A, B and C. That's related to school.
- [27:03]
A
To me most important was the default. They had defaults for all of those.
- [27:07]
B
Yes.
- [27:08]
A
So all a parent really has to do is this first thing which is to go in settings, add your kid to the fam. Well, first thing parents do is buy an iPhone for the kid. Although they do have a slide that says and if your kid is too young for an iPhone, give him a watch. So okay, this is good for Apple's bottom line, but all the parent has to do once they do that is say the age of the kid and the defaults you can basically trust. And I think that the kid has to ask permission to download an app. The kid has to ask permission to watch something. I think this is how it should be.
- [27:40]
D
The most important thing that's been added arguably is the new ask to browse feature. That is because before that people were just going to instagram.com or going to a site that then forwarded to instagram.com and despite having Instagram blocked, then they were able to just visit it via the web. Despite not having children, I have had to become an expert on these controls because I'm regularly talking about it on iOS today and helping people figure that out. And the updates here are, I think, very good, especially as we talked about Leo, the fact that we are getting clear guidance now on what should be suggested. And as you go through the setup process, which, by the way, the setup process before had so much cognitive load at the start with way too many options, way too many choices, and no one's going to do it, or if they are, they're going to take forever to get things set up. I mean, anecdotally twice I've seen people, parents, you know, get an iPad for their kid and then bail halfway through that process of setting it up this way and then just create their, their child an adult account because they didn't want to deal with it. And what has happened here is the setup process for getting things going is much easier. And then from there, the controls that you have along the way have it's. It's like sliders and check boxes. And that's what people need. And so you see at the, the point as Andy was talking about these categories now that they do, where it's schedule gated, it shows you for a child in this age range, we recommend 60 minutes of time with this. I think they've done a really good job with this. They've really nailed it.
- [29:21]
A
This is, this is the page you're talking about.
- [29:23]
D
Perfect.
- [29:23]
A
It says start off with guidance. We provide parents with guidance when setting time allowances based on a child's age and shaped by clinical and child development research. Parents can always adjust these settings. But notice there's a box that says within general guidance. So you can set it longer, but it's going to turn that off if you set it longer. I think this is exactly right. The defaults are well researched, at least Apple says are well researched. And, and when you just set the age, those defaults kick in and then you can change it later. I think this is, this is as easy as it could be and as appropriate as it should be. I think it's interesting, Christina, that you say this is. This is a page for government. And I think you're absolutely right. That's at least a secondary audience.
- [30:04]
B
Yeah. No, and that doesn't look to me saying that doesn't mean that I don't think that this is good for them to have defaults or that this isn't a good thing. But when I look at this page I'm going, this is. No parent is going to browse this. Right. And that's not the audience for this.
- [30:17]
A
Yeah, you're right.
- [30:17]
B
This page is for the government so that again, when they're called in and they will be, you know, to talk about these things they're already been hearing.
- [30:24]
A
Well, Senator, let me show you what we're doing.
- [30:26]
B
Exactly. They can literally go in and boo. We've been, not only have we taken this seriously, but we've been proactive and we've made these as our defaults and we have these options. Again, I do wish that you had like it's great that like you can have the child account, you can give them a phone or a watch or whatever. I would like to have like multi user support at least on an iPad. Like I do feel like that when I heard them talking about that I was like, like, you know what would really be great is if I didn't have to buy my child a dedicated device if there could be a shared device and if I could even if I had to re, relaunch the springboard. Right. Like, even if I had to essentially log out. But if, you know, for them to have access to things, I didn't have to give them their own, that I then have to control who, you know, where is it stored or is it in their room or anything like that. Right. Like that would be, I think a lot better because what winds up happening, at least in my family with my nephew, is that his mom won't let him have a tablet, which is completely fine and completely fair. But when he's allowed to have iPad time, he's using either mine or my mom's now. It's under our supervision. But he doesn't have, you know, an account or any of that. And, and I'm obviously not going to enable parental controls on my own account, but that means that I can't, you know, let him, once he does get older, you know, use it unobstructed. And that's, that's a little bit annoying but.
- [31:44]
A
Well, we have practiced delayed gratification on this show. Those were the first few things in the keynote. But I know what you all want to know about and that's what we're going to cover next, which is Apple Intelligence and the new Siri. And actually Dustin in our club has already got in and a couple of people said, yeah, the wait time isn't too long. So if you did install the developer preview and you've applied. Maybe you're going to get it. Maybe Micah, you'll get it before the show is over. I'm hoping, I'm hoping I'll show you one of the things Dustin tried on it right away in just a bit. You're watching Mac Break Weekly. Christina Warren, Andy Inacco, fill in for Jason Snell who's getting, I presume, demos today. Or maybe he just stuck around for Mandalorian Grogu. I get he said he wasn't going to go to the Steve Jobs studio and see. He was. He actually went to the.
- [32:35]
C
He didn't see the special Apple Star wars popcorn bucket that they're selling for only $40 at the Apple Store. Store. I'm joking.
- [32:42]
D
But it's filled with little finder guys.
- [32:46]
A
Popcorn finder guys. We will talk about AI when we come back. You're watching Mac. Oh, I mentioned Jason's on here. That's of course, Micah Sargent filling in. We're at Jason Snell. It's great to have Micah. You did iOS today, this morning and I'm sure you covered all of the stuff. So that's a good show too, especially if you're a parent or you have an iPad and iPhone and you want to think about it. Apple did some very interesting things in this keynote without mentioning any new form factors. They, they mentioned how do you tell me you're making a new iPhone without
- [33:19]
B
telling us, without telling us? We can mirror it.
- [33:22]
A
Yeah, we'll talk about that in just a second. They were very clever. I thought they didn't even smirk. They didn't even. They were very cool, but we knew what they were talking about. Your show today, brought to you by Pebble. Pebble hiring fast is one thing. Hiring fast and staying compliant across different countries, that's where things get tricky. And pebble helps solve that tension. Pebble Pebl makes global hiring simple through embedded compliance and AI driven workflows. The pebble platform takes the delays and guesswork out of going global so founders and HR leaders can move fast without adding risk. Hiring abroad can take months when you do it on your own. But with pebble, you can hire in over 185 countries in minutes and have your new hire onboarded by Monday. Most companies treat compliance as something to manage around, but by building a decade of expertise directly into the platform, pebble removes the fear of mistakes and the dreaded regulatory blind spots. Instead of juggling separate tools for contracts, payroll, benefits and compliance, pebble brings everything together in a single platform that integrates with the tools teams already use and it reduces redundant tasks and manual processes that can lead to error and delay the result. A global team that's actually set up to succeed with accurate pay, real benefits and the support they need to thrive wherever they are. So bottom line, anywhere is possible with Pebble. With global hiring simplified, founders and HR leaders could spend their time focusing on what and where comes next for their business. Pebble has a special offer for MacBreak Weekly listeners. Pebble's normally 399amonth per employee. Already a no brainer considering what you get right now. There's a limited time offer on their site that makes it even easier to get started. Go to high pebble before it's gone. That's H I, P E B L dot AI terms and conditions apply. Nice discount. High P E B L A I get there before it's gone. Thank you pebble for supporting Mac Break Weekly. So Dustin in our club twit said he applied, you know, installed the developer beta on his neo. Obviously an early adopter, Dustin. And asked, in fact he asked minutes ago, what is Mac Break Weekly? Mac Break Weekly, it says you can show this. Yeah. Is a weekly podcast from the Twitter network that covers all things Apple. Now this is good. It's up to date. Hosted by Leo Laporte, Annie Unocco, Jason Snell and Christina Warren.
- [36:11]
B
Nice, nice.
- [36:13]
A
Yep. No mentions of that other guy. The show features a roundtable of tech journalists analyzing Apple news, hardware, software and ecosystem system strategy. I think this is pretty good. And what's interesting, it's very up to date.
- [36:25]
B
Yeah, that's the important thing. I mean, they're using search grounding, which is a feature that all the major models have at this point. And so I'm not surprised. But I'm still. That doesn't mean that I'm not happy to see it. Right. And that's kind of going to be my mantra in our next segment, is that none of, I think, of what they kind of showed off was at all surprising. None of it was groundbreaking. But I was still happy to see it and I'll be even happier if it actually works. Works.
- [36:48]
C
Yeah.
- [36:49]
A
You know what's interesting? Because the stock market now, normally it's normal for the stocks to go down when the announcements happen that the old adage is you buy on the rumor, you sell on the news. So traditionally any event, any keynote, you're going to see stocks go down. But they've gone down kind of a lot.
- [37:07]
B
But that's the whole nasdaq. There's something else happening with like there's,
- [37:10]
A
it's also going down.
- [37:11]
B
Yeah, there's like a tech sell up like, like the Nasdaq, the whole tech sector was down like 3% today. So I'm not really, I don't know if we can draw any, any conclusions that it has anything to do with
- [37:20]
A
just with the Texo. They're down five bucks and 80 cents at 1.9% which is, yeah, I guess the NASDAQ's down about 2%. So it's, that's actually right in there with it. And you know, really it's not what happens today, it's what happens next week and the week after. Yeah, but so you don't think that people are looking at what Apple announced? I think some are and saying too little too late.
- [37:41]
B
Yeah, I mean some might be, but I mean, I don't know. WWDC is always difficult because this is the pre announcement so the developers can have things ready to go for September. But September is when we're really going to see the real fruits of all this. Right? Like we're going to see the new phones.
- [37:55]
A
Well, and that was one of the reasons this can happen. Yahoo Finance said the stock went down is because Apple didn't give a definitive date.
- [38:01]
B
They didn't say, well, for, for the Apple intelligence, sure. But I don't know. But I mean I think there, I think, I think we all know that even if it's not in a finalized form, there will be some version of Siri AI on a new iPhone and on last year's iPhone, iPhone Pro and Air. Anyway, in September, I mean you've been
- [38:23]
A
in the AI space now. You worked at DeepMind, you work with Copilot at GitHub. So you really, more than anybody probably know what's going on with AI. It feels like Apple is catching up. Not so much plowing new furrows, but that's a terrible, not so much advancing the thing but just kind of catching up with what everybody else is doing. Is that right? Right?
- [38:46]
B
I would say so, yes. I would say. And that I don't think has to be a bad thing. Right. Like I think that it would be. And I want to be clear, I want to like, I guess temper my critique in a complimentary way because I do actually think this is a good thing. They did not pretend like any of this was revolutionary, which I appreciated right now. Two years ago when it was all smoke and mirrors and it was, any of us who knew better were like, this doesn't feel right. They were pretending what they were doing two years ago is revolutionary.
- [39:15]
A
And then they found out they couldn't do it.
- [39:18]
B
Not only that, what they were showing off two years ago, some of that wasn't even revolutionary. It was just like. And then they couldn't do it either. Right. So this, this time, it did seem like they had very purposeful. And yeah, I do feel like they were canned demos and canned experiences and set up scenarios that may or may not be realistic, but it definitely is not a, you know, skate to where the puck is going moment. I'm not going to pretend that I don't think it necessarily has to be, because the biggest thing that they have to overcome is. Is, you know, the last two years of stasis where the things they promised just didn't pan out and they have to eat, you know, a crow on that. And then I think, you know, what they kept reinforcing. And this is going to always be, I think, their secret sauce. No matter who supplies their foundational model, no matter what they do special on top of it, any of that is that they control the ecosystem. And so if you live in the Apple ecosystem, and this is where it gets a little bit tricky, Apple has the opportunity to offer the most complete experience.
- [40:16]
A
And so Mark Gurman did get the design right. It is now all in Dynamic Island. No more glow around the whole screen. I like the feature of you can get a question and answer in that Dynamic island and then pull it down. I like that too, and get more stuff.
- [40:34]
B
I also like that it's an app. There was some. I think I was.
- [40:37]
A
There's a Siri Apple now.
- [40:39]
B
Yeah. And I had. I was on the Cult of Mac podcast a week before last and we were talking about whether or not that would happen. And I was hoping that it would, but I was like, maybe they'll wait a year. I'm glad they did that because I think that there's a Gemini app, there's a ChatGPT app, there's a cloud app, there's a Perplexity app, you know, there's a Copilot. There are all these other apps out there, even if it's not something that people have to use. I'm glad that they at least created it because I think that that is now the expectation.
- [41:07]
A
Although you can say, hey, Shlomo, you can press the right.
- [41:10]
B
You can press the button, you don't have to use the app. But I'm glad they had one, just because the big difference, I think now versus where they were two years ago is that no one is going to be coming into this where very, very few people are going to be coming into using Siri AI who do not have previous chat AI experience. Like that's the thing is that is that you might have a couple kind of holdouts who have never used those types of things. But that's going to be, be the vast, vast majority of people have been using third party experiences. They're not tied to Siri at all. And I don't mean, you know, Siri that you've connected to ChatGPT. I mean people who have been using on their iPhone third party chat applications. So I think that it's a good thing to a have your own, you know, yes, I can, you know, listen from wherever I can pull it up from a button, I can pull it up from the Dynamic Island. But also recognizing that there are habits that people have formed over the last couple of years years that are not going to go away and that you know, hopefully the hopefully for Apple, you know, Apple Intelligence and Siri AI can now slot into, into where they, they used to go to, to Claude or, or ChatGPT or whatever.
- [42:17]
C
Yeah, I was, I was very impressed impressed with how smoothly the experience translates from one, from one experience to the other. The idea of when it's, it makes sense for just simply there are times you're just holding up the phone and you just want to speak a, speak a command or ask a question and get an answer or Dynamic island expands. You get this little bubble that says that yes, this is Siri and this is handling it. But then if you simply swipe down from that, then you get that full screen ChatGPT Gemini app type of experience that people are used to. And then even on the Mac where you can surface Siri in so many different places, it still expresses itself in the space of what would be a very, very comfortable transition from the phone experience to this desktop experience without making you feel as though now you're basically being teleported into Sir Land amidst all this, these other projects you did again, I mean we talked about this last week, but Apple's, Apple's invention of the Dynamic island is just paying off. So many different, so many different benefits. I can't think of a different way, I can't think of another way to put a smart assistant into a device that feels so natural so that the presence of this, of this assistant that's basically at the desk just outside your office waiting for you to call upon it and then it can just simply walk in and sudden be the focus of this conversation or Be a partner and try to solve a problem. It's such a really, really nice way of doing things. I don't think anybody will claim that Apple showed off anything in Siri AI that we haven't seen done by all these other assistants over the past couple of years. I don't think, however, I've ever seen one that's integrated so well into the day to day experience of using a phone.
- [44:03]
A
To me, that's the key of all this. This is next now. Even if people have used AI, this is now in everybody's hands, in everybody's pockets. This is going to make it much. And I don't think actually OpenAI or Anthropic or even Google should be threatened by any of this because it's just making this commonplace and it's something that people expect and do and I think Apple's done it. This is what their skill is. They've productized it in a way that is very accessible, very appealing. Again, all of this is predicated on the notion that they're going to actually deliver that this is not just a candidate demo. Although Micah put in an article from Julie Bord at TechCrunch who's pointing out that because Apple had a quarter of a billion dollar settlement for false advertising, they have been a little bit more careful. Apparently on the talk show they told Jon Gruber that these were all done without editing. Not necessarily on the first take, I don't think.
- [44:55]
B
I'm sure it wasn't. But yeah, multiple takes. Yeah, I'm sure they would do multiple takes. And that makes sense, right? I mean like I just know from doing.
- [45:02]
A
They call it a live, live like
- [45:04]
C
format that's sort of live in context. I think that's okay. This is a developer conference. They're showing something that's not even available to the public in beta yet. If even in the developers hands it's not in wide beta yet. So long as they don't make that same mistake before. As long as you're not looking for.
- [45:22]
A
Hey, when we were watching it, Micah, I even said this. It's good, it's slow.
- [45:27]
B
Yeah.
- [45:27]
A
Because otherwise I would know that they had, they had fake.
- [45:31]
D
Yeah, it's almost. And I think that there might be a little bit of building that in now. It's a little bit like what we're seeing where some people are putting little mistakes into their words so that you know they're not done by AI.
- [45:41]
A
Right. Yes, you have to now.
- [45:42]
D
Yeah. So I think I'm not surprised that we had that sort of Lull almost.
- [45:46]
A
When we were designing tech TV 26 years ago, no, 28 years ago. One of the things I really hated about all the other previous computer shows was how edited they were. And I said, we're going to do it live and if it crashes on set, it's crashing. If it takes us two hours to install Linux, we're going to take two hours. I want people to have the real experience because otherwise people feel bad. They go, gee, it never worked that well for me. Is there something wrong with me? So I'm glad. I think being honest, whether or not you had to pay a quarter of a billion dollar settlement is a good thing. So I'm hoping that they are being honest.
- [46:21]
C
What they did do, what they did, what they had to do, do they achieve what they had to achieve. They didn't have to achieve that. Hey, well look, here's a actual live. We're doing this for the. We're doing this right now live in front of the entire audience. They didn't have to do that. What they had to do is make sure that they communicate that this is something we're still developing. It's not done yet. We're not even give you a date when it's going to be released. However, we have finalized what the interface is going to be like and what is going to be a typical sort of interaction. And they showed off mechanisms for interaction that I think are very, very appealing.
- [46:53]
A
Well, I have. This is their skill. Yes.
- [46:56]
C
I mean I had my Pixel phone and it's set up basically the same way as Siri is on the other phone, where you just hold down a button and you basically talk to it. And I was basically echoing whatever they were doing on the demo phones I was trying to do with Gemini and feature for feature, they're kind of being matched. But again, it didn't feel like basically the assistant was kind of taking over the entire screen. It didn't feel like. It's not that it was a subpar experience, but it wasn't nearly as clean an experience. It made me feel as though if I had Claude AI or if I had opened, if I had any other client attached to that button, I would have the exact same experience. Now again, we're still sort of like at the end of the, at the start of the Runway for Gemini's integration into, into agentic apps and controlling other apps through Android. So maybe we'll see some more payoff of that later on. But for what Apple chose to show during its developer keynote versus what Google chose to show during its developer keynote. I really think Apple, even in terms of things that are not going to be shipping for several months on either side. Apple did told a much, much better story.
- [48:06]
A
Well, I have to point out that apparently Anthropic was waiting until the day after Apple's announcement because they just released Fable.
- [48:17]
B
Yep.
- [48:17]
A
Their new model, which they say is based on Mythos. This is the newest Anthropic model. And of course this is on the heels of Opus 4. 8. I think it's less than a month after 4. 8 came out.
- [48:29]
B
Yeah.
- [48:31]
A
So I guess we'll all be playing with this to see. I'm sure the token cost will be high, but yeah it is.
- [48:37]
D
It's double.
- [48:38]
B
It's very high double Opus, but it's supposed to have fewer errors like so it's unclear like what that will be. But yeah, it's double the tokens, but it's supposed to do better on shorter ones.
- [48:50]
D
I ran it on something that was a more creative thing that I had done with, with Opus before just to see if it could do better at being that form of creative. And I was very impressed with the, the output thus far. But I, the whole time I'm going, oh my God, double the tokens. Double the tokens.
- [49:06]
A
Yeah. Well I still have my max subscription for a few more days.
- [49:10]
C
Days.
- [49:12]
A
So maybe I'll try to mess with it and see what I can find out. Wow. Clearly it's very obvious they waited till the day after WWDC and said okay,
- [49:24]
C
not even to trump Apple, but knowing because look, we're going to get our thing reported on a lot more heavily if we can basically be an Apple slipstream when everyone's talking about Apple's AI as well. I mean it's an exciting time. You love to see a time where everybody is working to create the best product and to get the most, most loyalty from its customers. In five or ten years time it'll be course through, through, through fishiness, sketchiness, subterfuge and lying. Right now, however, it's right now
- [49:57]
A
being an optimist.
- [49:58]
C
Oh well all I'm, all I'm saying is that every time I turn every time I, I give my attention to one of these apps for a little while, I think, oh my God, that does that didn't do that that like two months ago. And I mean it's, I could go bankrupt with all the subscriptions that I want to have with all these different AI apps and I don't know like if I can afford to basically have every, every, every limit that I want to blow past on every different service. Blown past. Because the things you can do if you blink for, for two months, there's suddenly some, a big problem of yours that's being solved. And again, that's not going to last forever. At some point they're going to Instagram this whole thing and make you regret that you were one of these early. We're going to regret that. Oh, did I really make a blog post that says there's this thing called Instagram and it's the most wonderful thing ever and I hope it never goes away? Yeah, I said that and then someone came along and ruined it. But we're not in the ruined phase yet.
- [50:51]
A
Yeah, yeah. There is some question in my mind about how much Google there is in all of this. Apple was at great pains to say this is our model, these are our models. The on device model is Apple a foundation. The cloud model is an app and foundation model. And they did say not in the keynote and I don't even know if they said in the platform. I think they did, but they certainly in some of the sessions that they are running with Nvidia chips on Google servers in some cases for the most challenging, a lot of the features felt like Gemini, felt like Nano Banana. I mean even the on device advice. But they're saying no, no, no. But my question is, well, what are you paying Google a billion dollars a year for if you're not running Gemini? What do you think, Christina? Are they running Gemini or are they?
- [51:46]
B
No, they are, they are, but they are, but they're, they're running Gemini.
- [51:49]
A
They said they weren't.
- [51:50]
B
Well, I mean they're not running consumer Gemini. Right. Like I mean is the way I.
- [51:54]
A
So some Apple, Google.
- [51:56]
B
Right. Well, what I, what I would guess and I don't have any inside knowledge about this at all and with the disclosures that I used to work on Gemini, but I don't know anything about about this. What I would guess would be that they have access to the core foundational model, that they are doing their own post training top of it and customizing it and making their own adjustments. They are running things in private cloud compute either in their own data centers or in quarantined off parts of Google data centers that are dedicated exclusively for Apple's use and that's how they can do the private compute stuff and that many of the capabilities and that many of the tasks tasks are going to be very similar to what you would get from Gemini if you were to access it just from the API. But are going to be, you know, customized and there will be some differences based on however Apple wants to tweak it. And, and this isn't uncommon like you see this cursor has done something similar with their composer models that they include as an option where they use the, the Kimi open weight models and they do their own post training on top of of it. I think it's something like that might be distilled Gemini. It's distilled Gemini. And I think that Apple can have their own post training and their own information that they're going to be feeding it that might customize it. But the model experience itself, I would be shocked if there weren't many vast similarities just to overall performance. Like they can tweak the voice, they can maybe tweak some of the output preferences, but I would be shocked if many of the core, you know, capabilities and whatnot are not the same as what Google's doing. That said, and this is what I was trying to get at a couple of weeks ago on the show, that is not to say that like everything that you can do in an ultimately optimized version of Gemini running on a Pixel device that Google is controlling, you can now do on an iOS device and vice versa. The same way that if I was wanting to just again just pay Google directly for API access and wanting to customize aspects of the model, I could maybe get a slightly different experience and I could maybe recreate parts of what Google lets you do if you're in their ecosystem, but it wouldn't be out of the box giving me all those capabilities. So I think they're doing their own training, their own adjustments, but they're using the work from Google. I don't know which versions they have access to. I assume they're probably given access to the newest things as soon as they come out and can make adjustments as necessary. But I would kind of look at it, I think, as maybe not a fork, but that's probably the best analogy I can think of of the model versus just a direct copy.
- [54:36]
A
Yeah. So Apple has a paper the third generation of Apple's foundation models that they talk about all of this, but they're still a little cagey on what Google's it says for AFM3 Cloud Pro, that's the highest, most demanding tasks. We worked with Google and Nvidia to extend private cloud Compute to Nvidia GPUs in Google Cloud while maintaining the same guarantees for users privacy, so encryption and so forth.
- [55:05]
B
Right.
- [55:09]
A
You know, I have to say Apple has Of course a lot of machine learning research and smart scientists, but we've never really been able to play with these Apple models. I've seen a lot of white papers. I don't know how good the Apple models are. To break this barrier. AFM3 Core Advanced introduces a novel sparsely activated architecture built on instruction following pruning ifp, a technique developed by Apple research researchers. They're claiming a lot of innovation here. The problem is they haven't been out in the world like OpenAI. Google and anthropic have been. You know this is.
- [55:45]
B
And look, I mean they are probably correct in that they've accomplished a lot of really unique things and how they're able to especially access this on hardware. And I think the way that they're doing this for cloud and local is very unique and is interesting. Somebody got mad at me because I commented that this was very clear. Them punting and kind of admitting that the on device model stuff story wasn't going to work and that most of what you do is going to run
- [56:08]
A
out of the playground is my example. They went from a crap product based clearly on AFM to something that looks like it's pretty clearly based on Nano Banana.
- [56:18]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [56:21]
A
Okay. How did they make that leap? Is it all AFM or is it a little bit of Google in there?
- [56:26]
B
I mean, I mean I'm sure that they started from. My assumption would be, and I don't
- [56:32]
A
know if they distilled enough is distilling enough to make it that good?
- [56:34]
B
I mean I think that they probably threw away everything they had before and then started rebuilding atop the Gemini foundational stuff is what I would guess.
- [56:42]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [56:43]
B
But they're making enough changes that they don't have to call it pure Gemini. They can say the base of this and they can still call it an Apple foundational model. Sorry.
- [56:52]
D
I'm sure it's also part of the agreement, right. That if we do our little thing to it, then it's ours.
- [56:58]
A
Well, what's interesting is Apple has let Google talk about this entirely up till now. Right. This is the first time Apple's even talked about it.
- [57:06]
C
But also like an eight word statement where you feel like every word costs the legal teams of both companies $83,000 in legal time to agree on what these eight words were going to be. It's like a negotiation. It's like a nuclear.
- [57:19]
A
It seems very reduction free shaded.
- [57:21]
C
Right, Yeah. I mean I was going to add that I Christine was that there is apparently Craig Fredericki and the rest of like The AI team that that led segments of the keynote regarding AI gave like a tech talk to press right afterward. Yeah yeah and basically they didn't say a whole lot more except for Craig promised to say a whole lot more like later like they described it as 9 to 5 Mac I think has a has a quote blah blah blah blah blah to our AFM Fusion model image model. These are the models that are the product of our collaboration with Google and you'll hear more about when we continue so barely an expansion on what they've been saying before is that we are collaborating with Google on creating new Apple foundation models. I think that the language seems to be crafted and I wonder what you think about that as if they're trying to at least faint towards this is not Gemini in any way shape or form.
- [58:19]
A
This is simply that's the impression they
- [58:21]
C
want we know needed. We we knew what we we knew what the bathroom wanted look wanted to look like but we didn't know anything about plumbing so we hired this guy to help us learn how to plumb in this room.
- [58:32]
A
Christina, where's this quote that you just
- [58:34]
B
posted in the that was from that machine learning link that you had. I'll put that in other but I I want to read this because I think this is interesting and I think it goes to kind of to your point Andy. Like they are absolutely not seeing Gemini anywhere but they said to support our new Apple intelligence experiences we significantly scaled pre training on the latest generation of cloud TPU accelerators. Now TPU is a Google thing so cloud TPU accelerators that means Google Cloud all models shared a common initial foundation. We can read into that however we want before specializing for the respective architectures and use cases adding multimodal capabilities like audio image understanding, long context reasoning and high quality visual generation. We then expanded our post training process combining supervised fine tuned tuning with multi stage reinforcement learning.
- [59:22]
A
You have to really guess in this where did Google come in? It came in somewhere.
- [59:26]
B
Well yeah and so it might even be as simple as a thing where they're lawyers and everybody is able to say well even though the foundations that we're using are the same foundations that are used for Gemini or what the consumer version of Gemini is known for. We're not calling it that because it has enough differences that it's not but. But to get the Apple foundational model and to get Gemini you're starting with the same base would be my guess. Right. And there might be divergences at a certain point. It might even be now right where with enough of the post training stuff, there are enough divergences, but I think that those core model capabilities, those had to have come from their own admission. They came from a shared thing. It doesn't seem like this was a thing that Apple just suddenly developed themselves. Like they're using Google's cloud and capabilities. So I don't know.
- [60:15]
C
So you're saying that this is definitely not like Gemini with the serial numbers filed off. You think that this is like a new thing, but based on.
- [60:23]
B
I think it's based on Gemini, yeah. I mean, I don't think it's Gemini with its serial filed off, but I also feel like in a lot of use cases there's not going to be a big difference between whether it was or not. And that I think is honestly also I think we should all acknowledge is that a lot of these large models, models at this point, there are areas where they can be specifically better at one thing or another, but they're all really good. They all do really similar things. And that's a good thing. Right? But like, that makes it, that makes it harder. If you're a model provider, how do you distinguish yourself? But if you're Apple, you don't have to worry about that as much. Right? Because the end user doesn't care who ultimately did their research to get to the foundational model that's on their phone. All they care about is, is Siri going to work or not? Is the image that is generated going to look like garbage or is it going to actually be useful or not? Right. Is the photo stuff going to be good or not? That's all they care about. They don't care about what research team ultimately trained the data set that led to the creation of this model.
- [61:22]
C
As someone who has so much experience with not just AI, but also development, there's a question that I keep trying to figure out, which is that the deal with Google has always been described as, no, we're not basically going to be using Google forever. We're not basically choosing it as our defaction to a provider. This is to help us get through to the next thing when we have our own model. Do you think that the way that these things get built, does this sound like at some point they're going to unplug the stuff that is basically part of the contract that Google might have some licensing rights to and plug back in something that they've been developing alongside it? Or is it something where at some point in two or three years their own model will have had learned enough from the Gemini Influence that I basically. So we're not talking about a Lego, a LEGO brick that they remove and then replace it with the one that they don't have to pay for. This is. They're gonna, it's just gonna get smarter and smarter and smarter until there is no more reliance on whatever it is that they have to pay Google for.
- [62:22]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think, I mean that, that's probably their ultimate goal. I don't know how realistic that is or how much that matters. Right. I mean like part of, the, part of the issue too. I mean, this is what's interesting. What they have talked about, and they talked about this again with the private compute stuff and other things. Things is that they need Google's data centers, Right? They need the tpus, they need the hardware, like the first time. And this was actually something that the. Me and a friend of mine who used to work at Apple, we were at the talk show, we were listening to JG talk about like the Apple silicon and how they were doing, you know, all the Apple intelligence stuff, you know, in their servers and whatnot. And we were, we were both kind of, we were texting back and forth going, this doesn't make sense. Like, they don't, from what we've seen, they don't have the architectural kind of, you know, infrastructure in place to do this sort of thing. And that turned out to, I think, be accurate because they're, they're having to use. Now they're even saying specialized Nvidia hardware and Google's data centers. Right. They're, they're walking back the fact that they could just use Apple Silicon and that's okay.
- [63:22]
A
So you think it's mostly compute?
- [63:24]
B
I don't think, I don't think it's just compute. I think that it's awesome model stuff, but I think compute is definitely a of part of it. I don't.
- [63:31]
A
It's ironic because Google's paying X AI
- [63:33]
B
a billion dollars a month to get more. And part of that is, I'm sure to be able to serve all of their customers. Right.
- [63:41]
A
Because like Apple isn't maybe more for inference and training.
- [63:44]
B
Right, Exactly. Like it's for, it's for Vertex, it's for all these other aspects. Right. Like they have all these customers. But I'm sure that, for instance, I'm not going to make any assumptions here, but I would be very surprised if, for instance, anything that Apple was doing was going to live in any data center that wasn't, was not fully controlled by Google. Right. But the fact that that Apple said that they are running these things on custom Nvidia and custom Google hardware. That is an admission right there that says the models that we built our hardware is not enough to be able to run and do inference on these things. Right. Which is okay. As an end user I would much rather have the models be good and if that means you need to use somebody else's hardware for that purpose.
- [64:27]
A
You think Apple has enough compute to do to build the models? I can see they may not have enough for the inference, but they may.
- [64:35]
B
I don't know.
- [64:36]
A
Well, I mean where are these data centers?
- [64:39]
B
Well, right. I was going to say Apple. For years that's been kind of the dirty secret is like they do have some of their own data centers, but a lot of Azure. Yeah, well they did use Azure and then I think they moved to Amazon and a lot of it for years and years has been Google Cloud, which I think is probably why the Gemini thing made some sense or the Google deal made some sense. I don't know if it's so much even the computer, I don't know if Apple Silicon, I don't know if they've created truly a device specific thing. Maybe now they're getting closer to that place where they would have the hardware that would do what they would need to do.
- [65:13]
A
It's really interesting. I think the rest of the story will be told as, as we get access to it and so forth. But it's a very interesting question which Apple has been a little bit slightly cagey about by the way.
- [65:25]
B
I think it's okay.
- [65:26]
A
Just a second ago I ran Fable, the latest anthropic model in Claude code against a code base that Claude code had audited, built and audited many times and found numerous.
- [65:37]
D
That's so funny. That was the first thing I did with it too.
- [65:39]
A
Security flaws.
- [65:40]
D
I was like look for some stuff that I have.
- [65:42]
A
So it says nothing's terrible, but yeah, it found quite a few things and fixing them right now. So I think Fable does have some security capabilities. Holy cow. We're going to take a little break and come back with more including a little hint Apple dropped about perhaps future hardware. There were no hardware announcements. You know what I was really shocked by? Talking all about Siri and voice and AI. They didn't mention HomePods. They didn't mention any other devices. Devices. It was iPhone, iPad and Mac. IPhone, iPad and Mac. And that surprised me a little bit. I thought that was an opportunity to
- [66:22]
C
talk about HomePods very quickly because I know you're going to commercial but I kind of assumed they'd be too busy for homepods and stuff like that, but I was very surprised they didn't have at least a couple of minutes of, hey, we are kind of like the number one hardware platform for AI. Not saying we can't keep Mac Minis.
- [66:40]
A
They didn't mention Minis and studios. Yep.
- [66:42]
C
Yeah. But basically saying, hey, look, here's, here's, here's how good our M5 is and here's how it's benchmarking against. Against other chips that are in the platform.
- [66:50]
A
And they, and they had, they had actually a very good seminar. What do you call these things? Little breakout. No, after the stadium breakout session on running agentic AI on Apple Silicon.
- [67:03]
B
Yes.
- [67:03]
A
And it was quite good.
- [67:05]
C
It was almost 100% like consumer oriented. Only the very, very end of the keynote. Only the very, very, very into. They even mentioned. Oh, but here's a whole, Here's a whole bunch of stuff about xcode. Try not to notice that we were kind of like showing you that we're working on a foldable.
- [67:17]
A
But anyway, the funny thing on the XCODE session was they've spent a lot of time. Maybe this was in the platform. I think it was in the platform. They spent a lot of time talking about how now you can open an XCODE project without naming it first.
- [67:30]
B
Yes. Yeah, I picked up on that too.
- [67:32]
A
That was like a big feature, huh?
- [67:34]
B
Well, I mean, here.
- [67:35]
A
And new theme.
- [67:38]
B
Well, I mean, I think what's happening in the Seginic, in this Claude GPT5 copilot, whatever driven world, is that if you are somebody, especially who's new to starting a project, the first time you are faced with opening up xcode, it is not an easy process.
- [67:54]
A
No, it's true.
- [67:55]
B
And it is a pain. I think Jason Snell even mentioned or wrote something about that, about the process of getting started is just way too convoluted. And it is. And that's been the case for years. Years. You know, I think themes are. I mean, it's funny, it's taken them that many years to do that, but yeah, I mean, the fact that you can just start without having to go through all the different gyrations. Clearly that was aimed at Vibe coders. Clearly that's aimed at, you know, kind of the next generation of developers. And I think that's a good thing.
- [68:22]
A
Yeah. Yeah. All right, let's take a little break. We'll come back with more. I'll play some of the new voices for you. Again, this is stuff that we've been you know, others have been doing for ages, and Apple's just finally kept catching up. You're watching Mac Break Weekly. Christina Warren is here. It's nice to have Christina on developer relations at GitHub, but she was also at DeepMind. She's worked with these tools. She knows a little bit about this stuff.
- [68:46]
C
This is one of those episodes where my mandate is, Andy, shut up and listen and ask her some questions that you can use in the stuff you're writing this week.
- [68:52]
A
Well, but I was going to say
- [68:53]
C
she's really, really valuable.
- [68:55]
A
To your credit, you're also a Google user and you have a lot of experience with Gemini on Android, so. So I think that that experience is also very valuable because you've seen this stuff in play on your phone for a long time now. You know, there's lots of the photo editing features and so forth are just really, basically clones. Which is why I really feel like there's a lot of Gemini in this. Despite what they say, it feels like a lot.
- [69:18]
C
When we talk about the voice stuff and the natural language stuff, it's like, I hear Gemini.
- [69:22]
A
Yeah, I do, too. Yeah. Michael Sargent's here, who is, of course, our iOS group host of iOS Today. Was Rosemary excited about shortcuts?
- [69:31]
D
Yes, absolutely. One of the things she's looking forward to is having, speaking of Vibe coding, send in their shortcuts requests with how Siri AI created the shortcut, and then she will do one, sort of without looking at what Siri did, and compare the two. So we're going to see kind of how a trained model behaves versus how a trained human being behaves on it, just to look for the differences.
- [69:55]
A
I apologize for the crosstalk. My AI is telling Fable is telling me all the. All the wonderful things it's done.
- [70:03]
D
And I updated this and I changed this.
- [70:04]
A
Yeah, I said, well, go ahead, fix it. Why not? That's so I'll sleep better tonight. Although I have to say I don't have to sleep better tonight because I have a Helix Mattress, our sponsor for this portion of MacBreak Weekly. I always have a good night's sleep with my Helix mattress. We decided at least. And I decided to upgrade about a year ago ago when I read that you should replace your mattress. I didn't know this. Every six to ten years, the mattresses wear out. Who knew this? You know, I was rotating and all that stuff. But no, they start to sag, they start to overheat. But it's so important. I think sometimes we don't pay enough attention to our Sleep. And as I get older, that is more and more important to long term health. To fighting Alzheimer's, for instance. And of course, whatever your age, a good night's rest sets you up for a great day. You gotta feel good. Summer's almost here. Now would be a good time to upgrade to a Helix mattress. No more night sweats. They sleep nice and cool and comfy. No back pain, no motion transfer. You got a pet? Every time our cat jumped on the bed, I thought earthquake. And I have to say I'm really glad we chose Helix. We went and we did all the shopping, we read all the routine reviews and we decided, and I think you should do the same, not to settle for one of those mattresses in a box made overseas with low quality, you know, who knows what kind of materials in there and then shipped on a container ship for months. Smells like bunker fuel when you open the box. Rest assured that's not the case with Helix. Your Helix mattress is assembled, packaged and shipped from Arizona. And they make it to or order so it's brand new. You can also take the Helix sleep quiz. We did this 60 seconds to find your perfect mattress. It matches you with the perfect mattress based on what your personal preferences are and your sleep needs. We got the mattress that's just right for us. And I have to say our experience has been very positive. In fact, it matches exactly Helix's own studies. They did a Westbury sleep study measuring participants sleep performance after doing what we did, switching from their old mattress to a Helix Map mattress. They found that 82% of participants saw an increase in their deep sleep cycle. Mine almost doubled. Participants on average achieved an additional 25 minutes of deep sleep per night. Now that that is almost doubling because you know, typically half an hour to an hour is all you get. But that's the most important one, especially for keeping your brain healthy. Clears out all those, you know, all that junk that your brain accumulates. During this day, participants on average achieve 39 more minutes of overall sleep per night. And I have to tell you, I got both and I feel great when I wake up now. For 10 years, Helix has consistently ranked at the top across the top independent review sites. I mean the big guys, they've been tested and reviewed by Wired, Forbes, the wire cutter. Everybody loves Helix. Helix delivers your mattress right to your door with free shipping shipping in the US and rest easy with seamless returns and exchanges. The Happy with Helix guarantee provides a risk free customer first experience ensuring you're completely satisfied with your new Mattress. Go to helixsleep.com MacBreak right now, 20% off site wide during their summer savings. That's helixsleep.com MacBreak for 20% off site sitewide, make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you. And this offer does end June 11, so you only have a few more days. And if you're listening after the sale ends, don't worry. Always great deals. Check them out. Helixsleep.com MacBreak we thank them so much for supporting MacBreak weekly. I thank them for my great night's sleep. So Zarf Christina is at the Apple store shopping for you right now.
- [74:02]
B
Amazing.
- [74:03]
A
Your MBW roaming correspondent is at the Apple Podcast Park Visitor Center. Ask me anything. There's a man in a suit and sunglasses and earpiece guarding a matte black cyber truck in a handicap spot.
- [74:16]
D
What in the world?
- [74:17]
A
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. I want a picture of that. Maybe the guy would keep you from doing that.
- [74:22]
B
Shout out to David Murphy who went over the weekend to get me one of the new crewnecks that they are selling.
- [74:29]
A
He does have the new water bottles and I think you've said to put me down for one of those as well.
- [74:33]
B
Yeah.
- [74:34]
D
Mm.
- [74:35]
A
Well, thank you Sarf.
- [74:37]
B
Yeah, great job Sarf.
- [74:39]
A
Our man on the spot. Let me play some samples for you, Apple. Of course, one of the things they talked about was how much better the voice is. This is the current series.
- [74:51]
B
Kai said in the book club group chat. Are we still on for Saturday? I only have one more chapter to go. Melvin replied. I'm in.
- [75:00]
A
That's not that bad. But this is what the new AFM3 Core Advanced will sound like.
- [75:04]
B
Kai said in the book club group chat. Are we still on for Saturday? I only have one more chapter to go. Melvin replied. I'm in. We're meeting at Lisa's house this time, right? And Lisa replied.
- [75:16]
A
So expressiveness is definitely a dialed up. I don't know if. Yeah.
- [75:21]
C
When you think about vocal, they're introducing vocal fry, which is something that like a voice coach would try to eliminate from you. It's kind of like remember the early days of like digital studio effects where like why don't we. If we. It will look more real if we put in a lens flare and suddenly lens flares were everywhere. The way to sell it is to introduce ums and pauses that don't seem quite natural. And that's, that's one of the things I associate with Gemini, the voice of the voice that I hear off my phone and off my Google devices. And that's why when I, When I heard those demos, I thought, okay, I think that's probably.
- [75:55]
A
But isn't it.
- [75:56]
C
But isn't it cool? I wish that they had. That the Android had the feature where just two sliders were. We just let me change the pace of it and let me change. Yes, they did show that the tonality
- [76:05]
A
of it on the. On the new Siri. You can actually change voice.
- [76:08]
C
I also. But wouldn't it be great if you could also like have a different. Have the same voice but different profiles for different things? Like, I would love it. I want notifications to be kind of fast, but when it's reading me like documents, when it's reading me long emails, I need to go a little bit more slowly so I can absorb the information. I wish that that would be a great refinement in a future version of this. Again, these details, they're doing such a good job of this stuff.
- [76:32]
A
Yeah. I mean, I have to say companies like eleven Labs are light years ahead of this.
- [76:37]
C
Well, because they're Kentucky Fried Chicken. They make one thing and they do it well.
- [76:42]
A
They do really good voices. In fact, one of my good friends.
- [76:46]
C
Scary good. Criminally.
- [76:48]
A
Yes, Scary good. One of my good friends uses a kind of quirky voice for his agent. I have just kind of a British voice, but he uses this voice, brother Wayne Hudson.
- [77:00]
C
Back in my day when you said
- [77:01]
A
you were a Christian, it really meant something. See, these are really good. Fully surrendered to Christ. So. But what he does is he turns it way down so it's slow. And then he puts punctuation in the middle of words so it stutters a little bit and it sounds like there is some human in your machine. I mean, it is really kind of almost scary. Yeah.
- [77:23]
C
One of the highlight features of Google I O was, hey, now we have regional accents as well. Not just like American regionals, but in every single territory in which we have voice. I love regional regional accents.
- [77:33]
A
Yeah. I always put use British for my.
- [77:35]
C
Well, you also have to distinguish like, I think a lot of us use more than one synthetic voice for different tasks. And you need to have like. Just like you want to have, like. It's great when you have different people in a meeting and they have different types of voices, you know? Exactly.
- [77:51]
A
I do that with my agent and.
- [77:52]
C
Exactly, exactly.
- [77:53]
A
I told my agent, if it's an emergency agency, use a different voice. If it's. If it's just, you know, a bland announcement, use a different voice. And so do I feel like there's a whole host inside my Machine, which
- [78:03]
C
is my Siri and my Gemini, like, are from different parts of the planet for exactly that reason. So that I can make sure that I don't mistake one for the other.
- [78:10]
A
Exactly. It's like having a ringtone. Yeah. Apple did kind of sneakily put in some things. For instance, Mac rumors cut this little tidbit. Julie Clark, Clover, among other things, you can share a phone number with two different phones. Why would anybody want to have the same number on two different phones? So maybe if you wanted a folding phone, but you wanted a better camera on an iPhone 18 Pro Max, I'm thinking, how much money can I spend with that?
- [78:42]
C
Well, the thing is like foldables, particularly with Samsung and OnePlus and have been around long enough to that there is marketing research. And I was very, very surprised. Most people who have foldables will trade in their old phone and put the money towards the foldable and that becomes their primary device. They're not carrying around second two different phones. So I don't know if it's about that, but they did have something like in the actual keynote itself that at worst was a little bit cheeky. They showed off in that little xcode section. They have a new device simulator called Device Hub and they, oh, you can just change things. Dynam. And they had, here's the iPhone simulator. And then someone grabs the side of it and stretches it out into a horizontal thing. And now it's not now it's.
- [79:29]
B
Now it's an iPad.
- [79:30]
A
Why would you.
- [79:31]
C
It's a wide iPhone. But I did have to freeze frame that and double check. It's like, no, it's not. There's not like the buttons on the window. It is a widescreen iPhone app. And I know that, like, we can't help but to scrutinize every single detail. But again, it could be just something very, very cheeky that they're doing because they know that people know what's going and might have nothing to do with how you simulate a transition from like an iPhone to an unfolded iPhone Ultra. But the idea of, like, if it's still like full screen, but there are not going to be window management toggles or features onto it. That would be interesting, wouldn't it be?
- [80:10]
A
Well, I have to say, in the sessions, they definitely emphasized make sure, don't assume anything about screen aspect ratios. Make sure in your xcode that you use our new responsive design. Yeah. So I think it's. They're not hiding it. They're not saying, they're not smirking when they Say it. But they're. It's pretty clear they're not hiding it either. So this is.
- [80:36]
C
Rumors have it that now they're, now they actually have working prototypes in the hands of carriers and they're actually using them like for outside testing.
- [80:43]
A
Yeah, we're seeing dummies. I mean Scotty Dickinson, Sonny Dickinson released his dummies. I'll show you that they really look like it's an iPad mini when it's unfolded. These are. You typically see these once manufacturer starts.
- [80:58]
C
Yeah.
- [80:59]
A
They send them to case makers and so forth. So from Sonny Dixon dummy units, I'm definitely buying this. But the problem is I really want the good camera and I know the iPhone 18 is going to have an amazing camera.
- [81:11]
B
That's where I'm at too. And so I am actually happy numbers. Yeah, I was gonna say, I was gonna say I don't care if it was just for this purpose or not because Andy's probably right about the research. But certainly. And there are a lot of use cases actually. Like if you have a work phone and you also, you know that you want work stuff on but you don't, you want to be able to still access that other device. Like as a two phone user I deal with that all the time. So I'm happy to have this feature period. But I'm with you, Leo. I'm at this point where I'm like, I'd been on the fence, I've been like, all right, I'm just going to trade in or not trade in. I'm going to keep my iPhone 17 Pro Max for another year, pay off the Apple upgrade plan, just, you know, keep it and then buy the fold. And now I'm like, maybe I just trade it in and have, you know, have the 18.
- [82:01]
C
But I almost, I almost, I almost bought a first generation Pixel Fold because they were on Woot.com for $450, which for me is a viable purchase as a second thing to maybe sort of play with and get some hands on experience with. And then I remember that, well, this is the first, not only just the first generation of a phone, but the first generation of a folding phone and the first generation of a folding phone made by Google, which does not have a good, good reputation with the first generations of anything. But yeah, I am, I am with you. It's like I don't think I could live with just a folding phone as my one thing. It has the first time that I to want to take a type of picture and I can't. And I realize that I could have saved $500 and had a twice as good camera as this. And how many times do I absolutely need to use this as an unfolded iPad? Unfortunately, I'm not wealthy enough to be able to bear both of those costs at once, unless the thing was just so over the top. Great. And I don't. And the thing is, we're still at a point where if you're getting a foldable, you're going to have to give up something if you're going to get that one nifty bar trick.
- [83:14]
A
What else are we. What else? Let's see the photo stuff. They show this a lot. I feel like this is Gaussian splatting as well, where you can take a photo, you can outfill it, you can move it around and reframe it. So they have three. What are three buttons. There was reframe, there was not outfill, but it was effectively expand.
- [83:37]
D
It's expand.
- [83:37]
C
Expand, emits expand.
- [83:39]
D
Yeah, let's see here. I'll just.
- [83:41]
C
That was, that was, that was pretty clean up. Extend and spatial reframing.
- [83:45]
A
That's it.
- [83:45]
C
And spatial reframing. Their claim, they said actually that comes from Vision Protect. That was pretty darn slick. When they. When I saw just the first slide, I thought, okay, basically, so I can grab a grab. I wish that the person on the left were a little bit closer to the right and I can grab it, it'll select it, then move it and fill in. No, they are actually, they're actually simulated, simulating an actual move of the camera so that if you basically want the camera to be lower, it'll change the entire perspective, the entire scene in a simulated way that at least in the 300 pixels wide of a frame grab from this video at the keynote looked very, very convincing. But that's pretty darn special because that is the number of times you're on your phone, you're like, that would have been a good picture had I not, I thought to basically make sure that there's more of the sky behind the subject. And now instead of just simply saying, oh, well, it is what it is and it's 100% authentic. You can say, I can fake being a good, better photographer by making better decisions after I click the shutter. That's pretty great. I'm surprised, though, they didn't mention that in the document that they posted in the newsroom. It is labeled with Synth id. All the different edits that are now capable inside. The Apple Photos app is basically tagged with this industry Google LED ID tag to Say this is AI generated. That was something they should have probably mentioned during the actual Keynote itself. Because I'm like, I know Apple is not going to be irresponsible enough to suggest that, given that one of the first features they showed off was that, hey, we can even generate images based on people that are already in your photo album. And I'm like, okay, that could be very creepy and very scary. Tell me that you're adding Apple style protections against this being abused. But, yeah, they are tagging with Synth id, but that's the one place where they failed to talk about privacy, failed to talk about security, because those two are always intrinsically relevant in any conversation about AI. And they repeatedly made sure they made that part of the conversation in every other feature that they were discussing throughout 100 Minute Keynote.
- [85:54]
A
Mike, you've played with the photo editor.
- [85:57]
D
Yeah, I'm going to get the original as well.
- [85:59]
A
Yeah, I want to see. So Micah is running the developer preview. Are you running the developer preview, Christina?
- [86:04]
D
Yes, that is correct. Oh, you asked, Christina.
- [86:06]
B
Oh, yeah. No, I am not. I don't know if I will. The problem is that I have multiple devices and I have a device I probably could put it on, but until the series stuff comes, I don't know for work, I would never be able to put it on my work device. And I'm going to be honest, if I had Micah's job or like, you know, this was.
- [86:26]
A
Yeah, Micah has to.
- [86:27]
B
I mean, I would. Right? But like, yell. I don't remember what year it was. I. Because I used to always do it and even after it was no longer my job. Now that it's no longer my job, like in August, I'll look at it.
- [86:40]
A
But yeah, I'm the same way. I've just been burned too many times.
- [86:43]
B
Yeah, I've just been burned too many times, honestly.
- [86:45]
A
Yeah, I'll do the pub. Maybe I'll do the public in. In July. It sounds like you're gonna. Not even gonna do the first public release. This is the one I really want to do, though. I mean, I really want to play with this. So, Micah, you did this. Did you do this on iOS today? This photo edit?
- [86:59]
D
Yes, that is correct. And I'm about to share the.
- [87:02]
A
So people could see this if they wanted to in real time. How long did it take to do?
- [87:08]
D
Maybe. Yeah. So it essentially just pops up.
- [87:12]
A
And this is on device Gaussian splattering. Exactly.
- [87:15]
D
And there we go. There's the paste. So here's the original.
- [87:19]
A
Okay, so this is the original photo and it's a nice photo. But you said the person who took it was short.
- [87:25]
D
Yeah, was pretty short. So they're looking kind of up at us and.
- [87:29]
A
Wait a minute, us? I thought that was Johnny Depp.
- [87:31]
D
And that's me on the left. I'm dressed as Captain Jack Sparrow. And then the person on the right is dressed as one of my favorite characters of all time, Sam is his name on the right. And so I had to get photos. Sam.
- [87:44]
C
Oh, that.
- [87:45]
A
It's subtle, but it's much nicer.
- [87:46]
D
Yeah, it's just a little bit more directly across from us as opposed to coming from below.
- [87:51]
A
And it is not apparently edited in any way.
- [87:54]
D
I mean, yeah, you can't really tell. The reframe is very subtle. And it also depends on the photograph in terms of how it was captured, what the depth information is that's available. And so do you have to use
- [88:08]
A
it in portrait mode?
- [88:10]
D
It appears that I can run it on photos that aren't in portrait mode, but not as well. There's a lot more generation that needs to take place when you do that. Yeah, I took a photo that I had just saved online somewhere, which of course then didn't have that depth data built in, made some adjustments to it, and you could see artifacts and things that you wouldn't see that you do not see in this.
- [88:34]
A
So Anthony Nielsen, our AI guru, is asking, do you think the first part is local? Doing the Gaussian splat and then the outfill is maybe private compute or. No, I don't know. How do we know? Is there any indication that they've gone out?
- [88:53]
D
Yeah, let's see. I'm going to take a photo and I will airplane mode and then we'll try to make an edit to it. Okay, so here we are in airplane mode.
- [89:02]
A
This is the kind of investigative report
- [89:05]
B
I was going to say. This is great.
- [89:07]
A
Need.
- [89:08]
D
I should have. I should have ECAMM open because then you could follow along with me.
- [89:11]
C
I can't. I can't imagine how much time I'm going to waste when I have this feature going through like four, five, six years of previous photos and making little adjustments to them. I'm going to lose three weeks of productivity for sure.
- [89:20]
A
I actually really like the 3D effect that it does on the home screen, the lock screen. I think that's really cool. I turned that.
- [89:26]
C
That was. That was an interesting use. While we're waiting. That was interesting demonstration of. Hey, Generative AI usually gets like a bad rap, but it's like, hey, when you add A wallpaper. We will actually suggest wallpapers we can generate for you based on not only the PC people and places in your photo roll, but your activities. And I have to say that I wouldn't not generate some of these stuff on my own. But if I saw this in a gallery of like, eight, I would like, maybe not get the boring denim print thing that I was looking for and say, oh, actually, maybe that cute dog that I saw on my walk would be nice. Flying an airplane over a beach. Thank you very much, Siri.
- [90:00]
D
Interesting.
- [90:02]
A
I. Justine did this experiment with. She took a. Ooh, look at that. You really. You do get some interesting depth.
- [90:12]
C
Looks like a lenticular image.
- [90:14]
D
So these two are the same photo. The one on. Oh, sorry.
- [90:19]
A
Okay, I will. I will go to Discord now and show. So this is the one that's a
- [90:24]
D
little bit more drab. The one on the left is actually the newer photo that I readjusted, the one on the right.
- [90:30]
A
So you were able to do both. All of it local?
- [90:32]
D
All of it. And that was local. Yep. I have airplane mode turned on.
- [90:35]
B
That is interesting. And that's. And that. That's a completely different, you know, angle.
- [90:39]
D
Yeah, exactly. And so what I think we're seeing there, you can see that when I readjusted it, it took one of the people out of the photo.
- [90:48]
A
It sure did.
- [90:50]
C
That was another thing they mentioned during the keynote.
- [90:53]
A
Yeah.
- [90:54]
D
And I kind of. This is one of the things that
- [90:55]
A
I like about this person here on your left. Disappears.
- [90:58]
D
Yeah, just disappears. But it's good. I feel that they focus. It seems that it tries to pick out what the subject is and leave that alone as much as possible. Which I liked, because.
- [91:08]
A
Ask a question. So behind this. This is the original. Behind this woman in the white skirt, it thinks there's this aluminum pole. Was that actually there? Or.
- [91:19]
D
You know what's weird is that they made that up. The only difference is that in real life, that aluminum pole was closed off at the end as opposed to being open.
- [91:27]
A
But it really was there. But it really was there. So that means it's looking at other images in the same.
- [91:33]
C
That's something. That's something to definitely test out that if it knows that something was taken in a burst. So there's like four pictures that were taken within like a 30 second span.
- [91:41]
D
Ah, that's true. Because it was a live photo.
- [91:43]
A
Oh, it's a live photo. There you go. So you have multiple images.
- [91:46]
B
Also. This is interesting. If you zoom in on that second image. Not image, second image. The first image. Michael, the one that was dead. Look, you can kind of see in the background, like there's a woman. Like, like you can see the AI stuff. If you look on the, I guess the table that's on, on the tent, there's.
- [92:05]
A
And then we go back here. Yeah, the outfield is making this all up.
- [92:09]
B
That's what I was gonna say. I was gonna say. No, but, but like, but look to the right of that, where that woman is. Yeah, exactly.
- [92:15]
D
There's like a ghost woman there.
- [92:16]
B
Exactly, that's what I'm saying. Yeah.
- [92:18]
D
Looks like the Mona Lisa a little bit.
- [92:19]
B
Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. That's funny that they kind of took that.
- [92:22]
A
So, because this was a live photo, it had multiple frames to choose from, so that helps it a lot. I think that's, that's really interesting.
- [92:29]
D
Interesting.
- [92:29]
C
And now I have a new question to ask somebody.
- [92:32]
A
Yeah. Wow. Lots of information here. This is what I'm most excited about, now that it's out in people's hands, is, you know, what are the capabilities? How can it work? You're watching Mac Break Weekly, the post WWDC dissection with Christina Warren, Andy Inaco and Micah Sargent filling in for Adjacent Snow, who's still in Cupertino, although he has, of course course filed numerous articles already@6colors.com. So if you want Jason's point of view, you can get it there. On we go. Let's see what else. Golden Gate, Mac OS 27. They had the usual bad dad jokes about the crack design team in their VW microbus. Going up to the Golden Gate wasn't Big Bear. We thought the rumor was it was going to be Big Bear, but it was Golden Gate. I think that's a good name. Yeah.
- [93:28]
C
Good name. Not a lot of, not, Not a
- [93:31]
D
lot of changes in Mac os.
- [93:34]
A
Yeah. Mostly it's glass. Right. Is the, is the big changes? And of course, all, all of these features. This is the other thing that's very interesting. Apple's putting all of these features in all of its platforms, Right. I mean, they didn't mention a lot about TV OS or Watch os. There's a few new features, but I presume that all these features will appear. However, this would be a good time for the Vision OS segment.
- [93:59]
B
What do you see? What do you know?
- [94:01]
C
It's time to talk to Vision Pro.
- [94:09]
A
One of our listeners is playing with the. The developer beta on his Vision Pro Nightscape. And here's what it looks like when Siri is hovering in your vision on the left. And then when you look at it. It wakes up pretty cool. Comes a glowing orb.
- [94:26]
C
I can think of so many movies in the 90s where that was like the evil presence that is coming in and takes over the brain of the innocent child while they sleep and turns them into a murderer.
- [94:39]
A
I think it really. Apple definitely showed that they are not giving up on Vision OS or Vision Pro. Right? Yeah, it's nice.
- [94:46]
C
They did. Well, part of the story they were telling is that Siri is not just for one platform, it's for everything, including Watch. But I thought it was really cool that one of the features they were showing off about Siri AI was not necessarily circle to search, but basically, if there's something on your screen, you can have Siri basically explain this thing to you. And on Vision Pro, it works with. All you do is look at that thing and then ask Siri about the thing you're looking at without having to specify or hide highlighted. That's a pretty good show off of what you could do with this kind of tech, particularly if it comes more compact.
- [95:16]
A
Yeah. They even mentioned Vision Pro in the keynote. There's a new environment. You can actually make your own environment, right?
- [95:27]
C
From panoramas.
- [95:28]
A
Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty cool. And there's a new Thorsmirk environment, which is Northern Lights.
- [95:36]
C
I bought a Thorsmirk when I got my first apartment. You know, it lasted a lot longer
- [95:40]
A
than you can get them at ikea, I believe. Yeah. The Thorsmirk environment. They also. Let's see what else they also announced. I think that's the big one is the Siri, right? The Siri floor. Yeah.
- [95:55]
D
Little Siri orb.
- [95:57]
A
Yeah. I'm just.
- [95:58]
C
A lot of this.
- [95:59]
D
A lot of what is new ends up getting. It's. It's tiny little things that.
- [96:04]
C
That have.
- [96:04]
D
That have changed as part of the overall improvements at. And you know, there's. There are probably a group of people out there that. Each time one gets read off, that little group of people goes, yay, you. You did my thing that I wanted, which is nice. It's a lot of checking boxes that needed to be checked, but we're kind of still discovering a lot of it.
- [96:24]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Well, okay. That's your Vision Pro segment.
- [96:29]
B
It's Nancy, we're done talking.
- [96:34]
A
You can't say I didn't do it. That's all I'm saying.
- [96:39]
C
We get to keep our tax credit for another quarter.
- [96:41]
A
Yes, Tax credit.
- [96:43]
B
Look, look, Vision Pro at least got a mention, right? Unlike, you know, the poor home pod. Right.
- [96:49]
A
I really was surprised because I was Too. There's still the rumor they're going to announce the new home pod this year. Or.
- [96:56]
B
Yeah, I mean, and maybe, maybe they do that in the fall. Maybe they have new Apple TVs and something else. But it did, it did seem to be like an interesting omission. It was. And I don't know which way to read this. It's either we are finally going to accept defeat and we are no longer pursuing this as strongly as we were, or we're hoping to have a better story in the fall around our various home things. And we'll.
- [97:19]
A
This is such a natural, though, to say Ciri on the home pod.
- [97:22]
B
Exactly.
- [97:24]
A
Yeah.
- [97:24]
C
I mean, but you know what
- [97:28]
B
that
- [97:28]
C
story they needed to tell today had to do with actually being able to see what's going on and see work with a visual interface. They feel as though. So like they're going to keep making those speakers one way or another. The speakers are making today will run this, I'm guessing, hopefully the Siri tomorrow, when they do have this to show off. They're not going to be able to show it off unless they have a really, really good, smart assistant. If they're trying to get people to spend $300, $400 for a new speaker, it's not going to be with a current Siri, but they can say like in the fall, well, we have a brand new one and it's optimized for Siri AI. Now here's the stuff you can do with it, especially with the hardware that you couldn't do before.
- [98:05]
A
Yeah.
- [98:06]
C
Or like particularly asking questions like, hey, of the four cameras inside my house, what room was my cat in before he decided to throw up on my bedspread? These are things that they need to use that as an actual demo. But that was one of the things they're trying to remind us that HomeKit is that home control is actually still a thing they're concerned about. And these speakers are basically going to show that off. Once they have a Siri, they can actually take advantage of. Advantage of it.
- [98:31]
A
I thought it was very amusing. The cat fight that emerged between Mark Gurman and Jon Gruber today on Daring Fireball. Jon Gruber said, hey, well, Apple didn't say anything about using multiple models in Siri. And it just shows you what people with information about the subject don't know. Everything. A clear shot at Mark Gurman. To which Mark Gurman tweeted, they did see. And he showed in the code that, in fact, maybe you are going to be able to use new models or different models in. In a Siri. I don't know exactly who wins this argument. It's just unseemly children. Just knock it off. Mommy and Daddy.
- [99:24]
C
It's kind of like when Leno and Letterman were fighting with each other. Other. It's like. But they're both, like, they're both making $30 million a year. They don't really have to do this. It feels genuine.
- [99:33]
A
It feels genuine. Like, there is definitely, like, Gruber was pissed off. He's complained about German before.
- [99:41]
C
I'm not even gonna guess. I don't, I, I don't. I, I don't read Gruber only because I don't want to. Like, I don't want him to say something that I was going to write about then think, well, I don't have to write about. I shouldn't write about it now because Gruber's already done it and done it well, so I don't have to do that. So both.
- [99:55]
A
It's.
- [99:55]
C
It's fine. They're both great.
- [99:57]
A
We will get a report from the talk show, which he's doing.
- [99:59]
D
Gentlemen, you're both pretty. You're both pretty, I hope.
- [100:04]
C
But I only have one rose and this is the penultimate episode. So one of you has to go to the island. Unfortunately,
- [100:12]
A
Gruber's headline from the annals of people having knowledge of the matter. And he puts a question mark next to Mark Gurman's reporting.
- [100:21]
D
Yeah.
- [100:22]
A
Oh, come on.
- [100:24]
C
That is. That is a little pointed, let's say.
- [100:27]
A
And Gurman, of course posted on X a response where he said, well, it is in the code. So maybe Apple didn't mention it. Anyway, it is actually of some interest. I like the idea of being able to use other models.
- [100:43]
B
Yeah, that is interesting. No, I do too. I mean, that will be the interesting thing, I think, to see what capabilities they're allowed to have access to and how much work they will have to do, you know, in order to do that. Because, you know, obviously I think Apple is going to, in most many Apple users are going to be very happy to just be within the Apple ecosystem, but there are people who have workflows and who pay a lot of money for other subscriptions to other services and want to use that. The bigger question that I have, I mean, this is sort of related, is, okay, it's great that I can do all this stuff in Apple Mail or I can do this in Apple Calendar and that I can do it in other things. But how is it going to work, Work in other applications? Because, you know, like many people, my I do have, I do use Apple Mail but it's not my preference. Most of my email is hosted in Gmail. There are a couple, there are other places but other than icloud like I go to Apple Mail out of kind of default. I use Fantastical as my mail client or Reclaim, you know for some work things at work I obviously use Outlook. You know there a lot of people use Google Docs, they're not going to be using Pages and things like that. And you might use the different Notes app. So that I think is going to be where the opportunities but also I think where the kind of swim lanes get a little bit confused which is okay, all these things they showed off are going to work great or hopefully great if you are completely in the Apple ecosystem. But most people aren't. And that I think is going to be the sign because one of the interesting things about some of the other AI companies has been that they've made deals with these other providers providers so that you can have a really good experience, you know, manipulating and using Google Docs even if you're using cloud or chat GPT. Right. Like you don't have to just use Gemini. So that, that, that I think will be the interesting thing was is that will the Apple stuff work in, in those applications too? Will that be a thing the developers have to update? Will that be a thing that Apple will seek out? Or is are we going to continue to kind of be bifurcated and Apple expects us all to live in this fantasy world world where the only thing that anybody touches is Safari and you know, imessage and you know, the music app and mail and all that.
- [102:54]
A
Yeah, actually one of the things Apple did say is regarding pricing is that some of the basic features will be free but there will be limits, limits which you can extend if you have an Apple Services subscription. They show plus. But I imagine Apple one would also apply to that. And then the question is well, how much more can you extend it? And then if you do have, as I do, a Gemini Max account or whatever it's called, can that apply to it or can I use my Claude Max or my GPT plus account? I mean this is all of, you know, these are all questions people who use AI will have. I use Fast mail so I hope this will all work with Fast fastmail. My, my agentic solutions certainly do I have MCP servers.
- [103:41]
B
Well that's what I was going to say like the agentic solutions all do. Right. Like you said, they've been interoperable and, and you know Companies have either come out with MCP servers or they've done other things. And that I think will be the real kind of like sign for me which is is Apple actually going to be willing to, you know, pass off some of this stuff? Because and, and I'm fine if for Apple to say look, we can't guarantee privacy and all of that if this is running on you know, a server that's controlled by someone else, like that is completely fine. But I don't want for instance, Max posted on, on on Twitter a kind of a example of how he was able to use Siri to add all domains from a certain, all the emails from a certain domain to his junk folder and it did it. That's great. Will I have to do that in Apple mail or that be something that I can instruct Siri to do in Gmail or in fast mail or something else? Right.
- [104:30]
A
The other question that comes up for me is safety. So I can't ask Chinese models about Tiananmen Square. I'm wondering if I'll be able to ask Apple models like to read this fine print from the Apple keynote. Like what things will Apple. By the way, Claude was able to totally fable totally read it. It's one of Apple's classic wall of feature slides and here's a few of the things you want me to transcribe it And I said yes. And so in fact it is transcribed that fine print. But Apple is going to be very safety aware. This is something that frustrates a lot of people with other models is it thinks this is nudity or something. This is not. I wonder when we're going to start seeing some of those gates.
- [105:14]
C
And it can be very capricious too where something that as they keep updating the models behind the scenes, something that used just part of your workflow suddenly I'm sorry, I'm not allowed to do that. I've got a guardrail against that. Can I help you generate a birthday card instead? No, I really wanted you to organize my mailbox, but okay. This is why it's so interesting that these are such early days. All the stuff that gets demoed, no matter who's demoing, no matter what company it is, it's all predicated on when you make a request. It actually works okay 80% of the time almost won't do. The magical transition for me with certain AIs, particularly Gemini was when I found myself thinking I don't know if it can do this, but I'm going to give it a try anyway to See what happens, because I tend to have really good luck right now. The biggest frustration is, like Christina was saying, Gemini has the daily brief that they announced a couple of weeks ago and it works great. But the thing is, it only works with my Gmail account that's associated with this particular Gemini account. It doesn't even work with like the multiple Gmail inboxes I have for different parts of my business. It would be great if I could have it work with my Outlook, but it absolutely can't. And at this stage of the technology, we might argue that it's good that it can't, because who knows what it would be able to mess up and who knows if we can just trust a nation to do that way. But as soon as. That's what makes this one feature as good as it is. And I'm talking about just this morning in the daily brief. Oh, by the way, your friends are organizing, organizing this event and they're calling you up because maybe Andy's Gmail address will work better for contact with him. Like, oh, I did not even know that. That's great. Thank you very much for notifying me about this. I will action on this immediately. But the thing is, if it were attached to Outlook, I would not have waited like a week for this to actually happen. So it's not as useful a thing as it could possibly be.
- [107:16]
A
263 features in that tiny fine print feature wall. Andy. It was completely transcribed by Fable. And it says, by the way, handy for show notes or Mac Break weekly rundown. You want a version group by platform, iOS, iPad, S, Mac?
- [107:30]
D
Oh, heck yes.
- [107:30]
A
Do you filter just to the audio podcast relevant items and then it says you want to open it in bbedit or in Google Drive. It's pretty. Fable's pretty helpful. This is the kind of thing people who use AI regularly expect. Yeah, exactly. And so. So this is coming to a phone near you is pretty exciting. If it does. If it does in its.
- [107:50]
B
If it does. Yeah, I mean, like, I mean, it would be great if, for instance, if you could have taken that image and then in the Notes app asked the same kind of query. Right? Like you pulled up the Siri thing and said, hey, you know, show me that whole thing.
- [108:01]
A
And I don't know why it can't. I imagine it could. I don't know.
- [108:04]
B
I mean, I'm sure maybe it can. I don't know. I think it'll come down to the modalities and how we're used to using things that I think is the interesting Opportunity, but also challenge that Apple has right now, as I kind of mentioned before, is that again, like people, we've had years to use these tools and for most people the Apple tools have not been part of the conversation because they've been bad and so it'll be interesting to see. Okay, well how does you know, how do we get used to invoking those tools within the Apple ecosystem without opening up another app to do it?
- [108:38]
A
Yeah, Apple did not hesitate to say not available in the EU and China
- [108:46]
D
during the video saying that.
- [108:48]
A
And then they put out a press release that was even more specific. It's due to the digital market, due to the dma.
- [108:54]
B
I love that.
- [108:55]
C
And yeah, and Jaws gave a special like briefing to I think some members of the press explaining further that how frustrated the they were. Google's in the same sort of boat with these because basically this is one area in which I can't agree with the eu like wanting to expand interoperability because they're basically asking for something that will require Apple intelligence to not be secure. To basically give the. Give access to these. Exactly.
- [109:25]
A
Give.
- [109:25]
C
Give access to these, the transports to all of this information to any other AI that wants to use it. In principle it's a good idea but. But it can't work. Google.
- [109:32]
A
This is the international version of the Gruber Gurman split because the EU responded. EU regulators on Tuesday slammed Apple for blaming EU tech rules for its decision, saying Apple had that the EU had rejected the company's request for an 18 month exemption from its obligations.
- [109:53]
C
That was cheeky.
- [109:54]
A
Yeah, that was ambitious. So the decision not to roll out Siri AI in the EU is Apple and Apple's own only says the eu. Apple was simply unable to develop interoperability. This is all about Interop, right? Apple does not want to be interoperable. Apple was simply unable to develop interoperability solutions that meet essential EU privacy and security standards. Instead of trying to find a suitable compliance solution, Apple simply made a request to the European Commission to be exempted from their obligations for 18 months. That is not an option, says the EU. No, you can't do it, you silly company.
- [110:32]
C
So the good news is that most of their processes are based on. We'll sit down and we'll talk about this and we'll try to work this out as opposed to nope, you've created this rule. We're going to have to comply with this rule. Goodbye. If you don't like it again, go get into the bakery business. Don't try to make a. Make a phone operating system I hope that at some point they're going to both with both pressure from Google pressure and Apple hopefully they will amend their opinions and their. It's pretty clear they can't comply with this.
- [110:59]
A
They can't. The way they did it at the keynote to me looked like they're hoping European Apple users will complain to their members of Congress and say they're not being quiet.
- [111:11]
C
We want this again a full court press. They're not being, they're not being coy about this. They're not saying we in a statement to a reporter who specifically asked about this, this question it's like no, we are making this. We're a full throated like part of this keynote. This keynote event in which they removed. They did not talk about a whole bunch of stuff they could have talked about but they found that they had a minute to insert this thing of. Here's the reason why you're not getting this because we absolutely can't. Here is why. And we're going to put a special thing on the newsroom. We're going to be again, we're going to make one of our principal pieces, parts of the management team available to talk about this to anybody who wants to listen to it. They did mention quietly they did say
- [111:48]
A
China as well but I, I think
- [111:49]
C
that that's a different thing.
- [111:50]
A
Yeah, it's pretty clear that that's an issue of having to have Chinese models.
- [111:55]
C
Right.
- [111:56]
A
And, and they don't.
- [111:57]
B
Yeah. Probably a data sovereignty thing too I would imagine. Right.
- [112:00]
A
Like, like servers in China and all.
- [112:02]
B
Right. Which, which especially since it's not just their servers. Right. They're using another company's servers too. That's even more complicated. But yeah, no, I mean with Andy. I mean they saying it with their full throat which it's unfortunate for the EU market. But I also understand it and I am totally on Apple's side in this case. If given the two opportunities I feel like I understand the point of what the DMA is trying to accomplish. I don't know if that's something that I think is for anyone's.
- [112:33]
A
Apple may also be hoping for intervention from the US Government because the US government has complained to these eu. These companies are for us to regulate, not you. In fact, the latest one is you can't have, you shouldn't have any bans on social media for kids under 16 even though many states in the United States do. They're telling the EU and other countries no, you can't do that. Which is.
- [112:58]
C
But yeah, exactly. They actually had a new Developer post about here is how to comply with Texas's new age of verification law. And now that, because that goes into effect, that was went into the fact on the fourth, I think so I mean they know how to do this. They had no doubt the infrastructure, they don't like it, but that's the easiest path forward for them to at this point. For Siri AI, arguing and basically saying and digging your heels is absolutely the easiest path, path forward because what do they lose for the next six months? Nothing. Because Siri AI is not going to be shipping until any time in the fall. And then that gives them a lot of time to either escalate, escalate, escalate and then basically draw the lines and figure out how to solve this problem. So yeah, I'm glad that they're, they're fighting the fight as ardent, as ardently as they are instead of doing the Google thing, which is say yeah, we're just going to keep doing what we do and hope things work out well.
- [113:51]
B
But even in the Google thing, I mean there are, there are features that are not available in the EU for the exact same reasons. Right. So I mean there are a lot of the AI models. Like this actually becomes a problem if you are say an AI scientist who works at a Frontier lab, who is based in a country where there are laws that prevent you from accessing, assessing some of the models that you work on. So ask me how I know about that. But, but they're, you know, but, and, and so this isn't just a unique to Apple problem, but I feel like they are certainly because there's such a big share of consumer voice and they do, I mean the EU in their press release were like, oh, 27% of total sales are from, you know, the EU. And I was like, yeah, and, and, and I, and I don't know how much that matters. Right. Like I, I don't think Apple's gonna up and their entire way of operating just to try to appease, you know, that customer base. I think if the opportunity is make this available or not, that's, that's what it will be.
- [114:45]
A
No sign of John Ternus, although it was very nice that they gave Tim Cook the opportunity to kind of at the end have a little coda and say goodbye. Tim before the event posted a pretty funny video on X. Of course, Tim's signature greeting is good morning. And he decided, I guess to get a bunch of celebrity celebrities to suggest how he should say that. Good morning.
- [115:10]
B
Hey Tim, I think you ought to tap into your Countryside and say something like, good morning, y'. All.
- [115:17]
C
That's my favorite Siri voice.
- [115:18]
A
More eagle. Good morning. Good morning.
- [115:23]
C
I came flashbacks from the Google Pixel event last night.
- [115:26]
A
Good morning. Good morning.
- [115:27]
B
Good morning.
- [115:28]
A
Good morning. Good game. Morning. Good morning. Tim shakes his head Speaking of Matthew Reese. Good morning. Are these all Apple stars? There's a whoopy whoopy. Good morning. Harrison Ford. Harrison King. There you go.
- [115:51]
C
That was the coolest.
- [115:53]
A
Good morning. Oh, Pluribus is good morning. That was cute. Tim, Big fan. I'm tell you what, life is your oyster, man. You got to go pick it. You can do it all. Thanks for the ideas.
- [116:07]
C
I think I'll say it the way
- [116:09]
A
I always say it. Good morning. I love that. I think that's a really sweet little piece.
- [116:15]
C
And last one was nice. Tim really needed that shot in the arm.
- [116:19]
A
It's okay, man. You can do it, man.
- [116:21]
C
I believe he's got to set his goals a little bit higher from now on than being the same CEO of one of the most successful 4. $4.5 trillion companies in the world.
- [116:30]
A
All right, well, I think it was a. I have to say, I think it was a. It was a good keynote. I think Apple did what it needed to do. I think the real issue, it's all going to come down to delivering. And we won't know anything about that till maybe this fall, but if they can deliver on what they showed, Apple will, I think in many ways become the most used AI of all. Yeah.
- [116:53]
C
Pre installed on every. On the most. A phone that sells to what, 60 to 80% of people in the United States as it is, in the words
- [117:00]
D
of Oprah, a billion phones in people's pockets, y'.
- [117:03]
B
All.
- [117:03]
A
Well, most of those billion.
- [117:06]
C
Exactly. Or the one or the ones bought last year.
- [117:08]
A
Yeah, I'm sorry for all the phones bought last year. That's because it's not, we should say it in all fairness, that's because it's on device model and you have to have, you know, a lot of horsepower and a lot of ramp.
- [117:17]
C
But that, that, that also means that like that quarter for the next for the new iPhone is going to spectacular. If it. Because it means that a lot of the people who are normally on like a five year upgrade cycle, maybe, maybe they'll say after three years it's time for me to update. Last night I was inventorying like all of my Apple stuff, most of which was kind of like still working fine, but kind of end of life and thinking that, okay, you know what? My M1 MacBook Pro is still working great. But this might be the year that despite that, I will Simply buy an M5 because this would be a good year to buy it. I've gotten good, I've gotten good service out of it. I could wait another year or two, but why wait to get Apple intelligence and deciding like maybe I don't want to upgrade my iPad because I'm going to have to buy the $1,200 one to get one that uses this. So maybe I will just keep that going. All these decisions are going to be made by a lot of people and there's going to be a lot Apple's going to have to stay in the quarterly call like this was this this quarter was a was a tough compare with last year given that we had significant tailwinds in the upgrade cycle with people replacing three and four year old phones to get access to serial your
- [118:25]
A
picks of the week coming up next. You're watching Mac Break Weekly. Andy Inako. Jason's got the week off, but Micah Sargent is here. It's really nice to have you Micah. Good to see you. And I should tell everybody watch iOS today, which will be out later today, right?
- [118:39]
D
Actually on Thursday.
- [118:41]
A
Thursday. So watch it in a couple of days because that will have a full rundown of all the features in the iPad and iOS devices. And of course, Christina Warren, GitHub Developer
- [118:53]
B
Relations Tomorrow morning is knocking. Stock your fridge now. How about a creamy mocha Frappuccino drink?
- [118:58]
C
Or a sweet vanilla smooth caramel maybe?
- [119:01]
B
Or white chocolate mocha? Whichever you choose, delicious coffee awaits. Find Starbucks Frappuccino drinks wherever you buy your groceries.
- [119:09]
A
Zootopia 2 has come home to Disney.
- [119:12]
C
Let's go get ready for a new case.
- [119:14]
B
We're gonna crack this case and prove we're the greatest partners of all time. New friends, you are Gary the Snake and your last name?
- [119:22]
D
Desnake Dream Team Hidden New habitats Zootopia
- [119:26]
B
has a secret reptile population.
- [119:29]
A
You can watch the record breaking phenomenon at home. You're clearly working at Zootopia 2, now available on Disney. Rated PG.
- [119:40]
D
Do you hear that? Sounds like breakfast is ready because Quaker's coming in hot with morning new day nutrition, 100 whole grain oats and a good source of fiber to fuel the rhythm of your morning and kick start your day.
- [119:56]
A
And that sounds absolutely delicious.
- [120:00]
D
Fuel to start whatever's next.
- [120:02]
B
Quaker.
- [120:03]
D
Official sponsor of FIFA World Cup 26.
- [120:07]
B
Let's go.
- [120:09]
A
Time for your picks of the week. I have a pick that has nothing to do with Apple, but I'm going to do It. Anyway, I found a site I really like called Absurdly Optimized and basically his whole thing is absurdly optimizing stuff. In this case the absurdly optimized pancake.
- [120:31]
D
Already.
- [120:32]
B
Yes, I saw this site. I loved this so much. I loved everything about this.
- [120:36]
A
A systematic investigation of acid base neutralization, CO2 production can gluten inhibition and the Maillard reaction as applied to a 125 gram flour batter with an interactive stoichiometric calculator that adapts to whatever is in your refrigerator. Now that looks like a pretty damn fine pancake, I gotta say.
- [120:59]
C
Here's the neurochemistry and it's working great for me.
- [121:02]
A
You can slide it everywhere from mild to very tangy. You can change the fluffiness from French crepe through Swedish pancake to ricotta souffle and you can scale the servings so and and choose the ingredients that you want to put in. So a very nice site. I am going to go make pancakes right after the show.
- [121:25]
D
Heck yeah.
- [121:26]
A
This guy is is wild. He also talks about the perfect bagel and many other things. Absurdly Optimized which is at actually is it absurdly optimized.com? i don't know what that is.
- [121:39]
D
It looks like it.
- [121:39]
A
Absurdly optimized.com absurdly optimized.com yes, that's it. And he talks about coffee Kyoto glazed salmon towel absorbency and But I think the best the Absurdly Optimized Pancake. Pancake. Andy Inocco your pick of the week.
- [122:00]
C
I had a little bit of emotional whiplash yesterday. I took lots of pictures at the Pride parade my near by town on Sunday. Copied like 300 pictures off of my SD card to external SSD. Then after the copy was complete I deleted those files off of the SSD off of the SD and then discovered that no they didn't actually copy at all.
- [122:22]
A
I never erase my SD card.
- [122:24]
C
I know that was stupid. And so basically it made me look and find a really good data recovery tool called PhotoRec. Go to cgsecurity.com to get it. It's actually a command line thing. You can install it with Brew. I chose it because there were way too many really bad apps on the app store that essentially take an open source free open source software project, put like a really stupid UI wrapper around it and then try to get 5 bucks or 10 bucks for it and then does God knows what else. This is a free open source tool that has a really nice text based graphical user interface. So basically you have Menus, you can just navigate with the arrow keys. And it just does a very, very linear job of which volume that's attached do you want to check? Great. What of these three formats is it in this? Great. Okay, where do you want to store this stuff? Great. Okay, I'll start looking. I'll start grinding. And it found like every single file that obviously the tip is, of course you don't copy anything to something that you just want to undelete stuff so that it won't be written over. Undeleted everything that was on that card, but didn't undelete those pictures because that's when I found out that, oh, I only thought that I deleted it. I actually did not. I was so upset by the mistake that I thought I'd made that I proceeded to solve the problem that I did not have. But I did learn about a very, very useful tool that is now installed thanks to Brew that I can recommend to all of you. Obviously it's called PhotoRec. So you might think, oh, so it's just for photos and videos. No, There are like 400 different file types that will find and recover. And in every case, it wasn't like it was, you know, random number dot recover. It was actually like they had the file names correct and they had the extensions correct and I was just able to double click and open them. So free software, really well done, photorec.
- [124:12]
A
The best problems to solve are those you don't have, Andy. Exactly.
- [124:15]
C
I don't. I don't regret not having done the stupid thing and not having lost 300 photos.
- [124:19]
A
You learned something, though.
- [124:20]
C
I learned something. At the end of the day. What did you learn?
- [124:23]
A
Today's son, like Christina Warren, pick of the week.
- [124:26]
B
Okay, so this one is actually really funny and it doesn't even really work anymore, but it just. This is also. I just. When I saw this.
- [124:34]
A
I know what you're going to say. I loved this. Yes.
- [124:37]
B
Okay, so it's called Chipotle Max. And it's spelled C H I P O T L A I Max. And basically what people did is you know how people are putting support, AI support chatbots on all kinds of websites? Websites. Well, they're not doing a real good job of protecting their endpoints on that. And so it turns out that with open code, which is like an open source and really fantastic coding harness, you can take advantage of those endpoints from places like Chipotle or Lowe's or Sephora or Nordstrom or Ikea or Expedia. And you can use their compute and again, most of these companies have now kind of, they're closing these loopholes, but it's an open source project. There are people who have, you know, added pull requests for adding in other providers too. I just think it's a really funny idea.
- [125:24]
A
So it doesn't work anymore because I saw this and I thought this is brilliant.
- [125:27]
B
Yeah, it's brilliant.
- [125:28]
A
I mean it's getting not affiliated with Chipotle. They'll probably sue us. Worth it.
- [125:33]
B
Worth it. Worth it, yes. Basically what happened. But what's really funny about this is that it was a couple months ago that someone was able to I guess reverse engineer the, the backend proxy and then this guy just basically took that, combined it with, with open code and was like, yep, we're just going to put this together. Anyway, I look, like I said, it's airing out now, but when I used it last week it did work and I was cracking up and I just, I love this sort of ingenuity. If, if companies are going to outsource their support this way and not protect their endpoints, then I say, yeah, yeah.
- [126:04]
A
There were a lot of tweets, you know, last month and the month before with people going, I'd like a burrito with salsa and give me a Python script for reversing a list.
- [126:15]
B
Exactly, exactly. Well, that was the thing, right? Well, that was the thing is that people figuring that out that you could like talk to these chatbots and realize, oh, I can actually just get full chatgpt here or clutter or whatever and, and somebody just happened to put it all in one harness and I just, I don't know, I love that ingenuity.
- [126:31]
A
I should mention for those of you in the club that Maika's media time is coming up. This is going to be great. I'm very excited about this. So first of all, join the club if you're not a member of the club. Club members only got our coverage of the, the keynote. And by the way, Apple still took down our private YouTube so it's my guess that from now on keynotes at least with Apple are going to have to just be watch alongs. We did put it in the club though, and we do a lot of special programming for the club. You can add free versions of all the shows, TWiT TV, Club TWiT. You get special programming you don't do anywhere else. You also get access to the Club Twit Discord, which is, as you can see, a great place to hang out. So Micah, you know, noticed that Stacy's book Club is only every third month or every other month. And very kindly said, what if we did in the alternate months, Micah's media club? Because not everybody wants to read a book. So we had a vote, we had a poll, you had some very good suggestions. And what is going to be the subject of the media club? What movie or TV show?
- [127:34]
D
The first one we're going to do is the Fifth Element.
- [127:37]
A
Oh, love that movie. Great show.
- [127:39]
D
Everybody's going to watch the Fifth Element. We'll talk about it on the show.
- [127:42]
A
Bring your multi passes.
- [127:44]
D
Exactly. Bring your multi pass. What got second place was top animated episodes. And so I will, as I mentioned, we're going to basically just add a new one to the list whenever people vote. And so I'm hoping that that'll end up being the next one.
- [128:01]
A
Including margin, the monorail, the classic margin,
- [128:03]
D
the monorail, Jurassic park from Futurama and a really good episode of Rick and Morty called Total recall.
- [128:11]
A
This month, June 19, 2pm P. Pacific. I'm coming because I love this movie, the Fifth Element Media Club with Micah. And then we also have a book for Stacy's Book Club, which you'll find if you look on the club. Twit.
- [128:26]
D
Slow Gods by Claire North.
- [128:28]
A
Yeah, Slow Gods. I've already downloaded the audio book of that. It sounds really good. Sounds really good. Chris Markwatt's photo time is going to precede Micah's media club. So we're going to have a double header on the 19th. Lots of good stuff. You're not in the club. It is a great way to support what we do here. Independent podcasting with. With no, no, you know, obligation to any company. We represent you, the users, and I think that's really important, especially in this media climate. But we do need your support to do it. Twit. TV club. Twit. So, Micah, you get to do a pick of the week.
- [129:04]
D
Yeah, my pick of the week. If you are a word nerd or a public speaking ne, a theater kid or one of the above, you may like this poem written in 1922 called the Chaos, meant to display the chaos that is the English language, given the fact that it's essentially three languages stacked on top of each other.
- [129:28]
A
We just got an example. A number of people in the chat said is photorec W R E C K. There you go. Or reck. Well, it is rec, but so. So this is what? This is rec. Are these all homonyms? What are these?
- [129:41]
D
Yes, many of them are homonyms. Some of it is just a matter of you know, reading two words very near one another that.
- [129:49]
A
Would you give us a dramatic reading of at least a couple of verses?
- [129:52]
D
Dearest creature in creation, studying English pronunciation. I will teach you in my verse. Sounds like corpse, core, horse and worse. I will keep you, Susie, busy. Make your head with heat, growing dizzy. Tear an eye your dress, you'll tear queer. Fair seer, hear my prayer.
- [130:14]
A
See, these are the opposites of hominins. They sound same.
- [130:18]
D
They are spelled the same, but are pronounced completely differently. There's. I did not know that. This is one of my favorite lines. Say, expecting fraud and trickery. Daughter. Laughter and terpsichore. It looks like it should be terps. A core, but it's terpsichore.
- [130:37]
A
Terpsichory. Yes.
- [130:38]
D
Branch Ranch. Measles. Top. Sales. Aisles. Missiles. Similes. Reviles.
- [130:45]
A
This would be a good. This would be a good test. Announcer test. See if you can do this.
- [130:49]
D
God, I love it so much. I love it.
- [130:52]
A
Wow. This is great. I've never heard of this.
- [130:54]
D
I hadn't either. I heard about it the first day. The first time or the other day and someone had posted a. A sort of truncated version of it with the easier ones. And I ended up looking it up and seeing, oh, it's got even more. I was just eating it up.
- [131:09]
A
One anemone. Balmoral. Kitchen. Lichen. Laundry. Laurel. Balmoral. Gertrude. German. Wind. And wind. Beau. Kind. Kindred. Cue. Mankind. It's so good. It's delightful. The Chaos by Gerard Nolst Trinity 800 of the worst irregularities in English spelling and pronunciation.
- [131:32]
D
For some, a nightmare. For others, absolute pleasure. As your.
- [131:36]
A
Wow. There are very famous announcer tests which are very hard to do and they used to. In the. In the old days of. Of radio, you know, you'd walk in saying, I want to be a booth announcer. And they'd say, well, read this, kid.
- [131:48]
D
Read this. And there's somewhere you're meant to read it in one breath. Others that are based on pronunciation, some that are based on confidence.
- [131:55]
C
I love.
- [131:56]
D
I think they're fantastic. So much.
- [131:58]
A
Really cool. The chaos. Mr. Micah Sargent. We don't get enough of you. I'm so glad that you stopped by today. It was great to be here. The keynote with you yesterday. Catch iOS today on Thursday and get the complete update on what Apple announced for iOS and iPados. And of course I. We didn't talk about shortcuts, but the vibe, coding shortcuts. I can't imagine Rosemary Orchard is being more excited about anything than that.
- [132:23]
D
Absolutely. More people getting more access to something that she Very much cares about is awesome. The democratization of shortcuts.
- [132:31]
A
She's the absolute king of shortcuts. It's very much worth watching that show on Thursday. Thank you, Andy and Nako. The website is up and are you getting traffic? Are people visiting?
- [132:42]
C
Getting lots of traffic. I'm very, very grateful. I'm a little bit surprised. I had, I had very rare. I had a lot of time over the past year to think about what numbers am I going to. Am I going to have to reach before I think that. Okay, you know what? This was not a total waste of time. I'm not just doing this for my own, like, entertainment. And those were kind of blown past, like, within like, 38 minutes. So I wish I could send that message back to the Andy from like, like August of last year who said, stick with it. I know it's a lot of work, but there are people who are interested in this and they will actually read this. So thank you very much. I posted, like, the third thing this week. This morning. I've got a couple more that are. That are. That are on the. On deck. Before I do, like, the big post about WWDC on 4, unfortunately, I have to, like, check to make sure I know what I'm talking about before I
- [133:30]
A
do that last part. You get tech and musicals and opera. And by the way, did you love Pink's opening for the Tony Awards? That was.
- [133:37]
D
Oh, heck, yes. Wow.
- [133:39]
C
That was love with wire work. Anything that involves wire work, I'm. Well, as soon as it opened and
- [133:44]
A
there's a woman dressed as Peter Pang hanging upside down, I went, pink, of course.
- [133:48]
D
Yeah, exactly.
- [133:49]
A
You know, we saw her in Vegas. She flies in from the back back. It's like, girl, careful. She loves doing that wire work. I love Pink. So that was a lot of fun.
- [134:02]
B
They need her on Chicago because when she did that, when she did the. The number at the end, I was like, okay, she'd be perfect casting. Like, I know. I know that she did that because her. Her daughter, like, really wants to make it. I'm like, okay, you can still be a Nepo mom, but, like, actually, please, like, like, you know, do the sun passing because she'd be fantastic.
- [134:19]
A
Yeah, right.
- [134:20]
C
They started. CBS started posting the musical numbers from. From the show. It's like, that's. That's the reason why the Tonys is probably my one. Don't want to miss it, like, award show every year because it is one hell of a great piece of entertainment.
- [134:32]
A
I didn't know any of the shows this year, so I. I didn't get.
- [134:37]
C
Schmigadoon was like an Apple. Was an Apple TV production, and it won.
- [134:41]
A
Did they win?
- [134:42]
B
They did won. Best musical. And in fact, they thanked Apple for canceling them, which was very funny.
- [134:46]
D
That's funny.
- [134:47]
C
Okay.
- [134:47]
D
That's actually really funny.
- [134:49]
A
I know Amy Webb's produced Chess was nominated. I didn't think it won, but it did not.
- [134:55]
B
It did not.
- [134:56]
A
She's had a great run with that. It's still on Broadway, doing very well, so. Yeah, very nice. I didn't realize they made a Rocky Horror Picture show into a Broadway show. That's crazy.
- [135:07]
B
Yeah. And it's doing well. It's one of the few that's doing well. I mean, Andy can speak to this more. This is kind of a weird year for Broadway, at least for me, because two of them closed before the Tonys even happened, and a couple others have already announced that their closings was just been kind of an off year. But the Tonys itself is like one of those kind of really fun can't Mrs. Yeah.
- [135:27]
A
I'm a Broadway fan. Huge Broadway fan. But this year, not its best. Not its best year. Thank you, Andy. Thank you, Christina. Christina, I didn't even mention, of course, developer relations at GitHub. Love having you on. We appreciate you filling in. Filling that empty seat.
- [135:45]
B
Do our best.
- [135:46]
A
No longer empty.
- [135:47]
C
It's her seat.
- [135:48]
A
It's now the Christina Warren honorary chair.
- [135:52]
B
No, it is still Alex's seat. But I'm doing what I can to bring things here, and I've been having a great time. Thank you all for being so welcoming, and it's really fun watching.
- [136:01]
A
Hard to see if any Alex crept into the keynote, and I don't think any did. Although maybe the environments in the Vision Pro. I was gonna say that might have been an Alex.
- [136:12]
B
Maybe there was.
- [136:13]
C
There was. I'm glad that they weren't quite so wacky with the transitions. Like, I guess that was a relief. Maybe they lost their, like, drone permit for, like, certain altitudes. I said, okay, we'll just have to walk from one place to another.
- [136:24]
A
Yeah, they toned it down quite a bit, and that was fine with me. Yeah. Thank you, everybody, for watching. We do Mac Break weekly every Tuesday. There isn't always Apple news, but when there is, boy, we have lots to talk about. When there isn't, boy, we have lots to talk about. Every Tuesday, 11am Pacific, 2pm Eastern, 1800 UTC. You can watch us do it live. If you're in the club, of course, the club. Twit. Discord's a place to be, but otherwise we broadcast it for everybody on YouTube, Twitch X, Facebook, LinkedIn and Kick after the fact. We edited up and put it on our website TWiT TV, MBW. There's audio and video there. You can also check it out on YouTube. There's a dedicated Mac break we weekly channel with the video on YouTube. A great way to share clips with people. If you want to help spread the word about the one of the longest running apps second longest running Apple shows in the world. We also make it a podcast so you can download it with your favorite podcast clients. Subscribe and Overcast or Pocket Cast or whatever you like Apple Podcasts and if you do that, make sure you leave us a nice review. Help tell everybody about Mac Break Weekly unfortunately, however, our time has come and it is time for me to tell you to get back to work because break time is over. We'll see you next week. Bye bye. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying big Wireless waves Too much.
- [137:55]
C
Please, for the love of everything good
- [137:57]
B
in this world, stop with Mint.
- [137:59]
D
You can get premium wireless for just
- [138:00]
B
$15 a month, of course, if you enjoy overpaying. No judgments. But that's weird.
- [138:05]
C
Okay, one judgment anyway.
- [138:08]
A
Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment
- [138:12]
B
of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full terms@mintmobile.com.