MacBreak Weekly 972: Future Jeopardy Champion

Summary

Podcast Summary: MacBreak Weekly 972: Future Jeopardy Champion

Release Date: May 14, 2025

Hosts: Leo Laporte, Jason Snell, Andy Ihnatko, Alex Lindsay

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1. Apple’s Commitment to Accessibility

In this episode, the panel delves deep into Apple’s latest accessibility enhancements unveiled ahead of Global Accessibility Awareness Day. These updates, carried forward from the annual WWDC, showcase Apple’s dedication to making technology more inclusive.

Key Features Discussed:

• Nutrition Labels for Apps (02:15): Jason Snell highlights the introduction of "nutrition labels" in the App Store, allowing users to see which accessibility features an app supports before downloading. This initiative aims to increase transparency and encourage developers to prioritize accessibility.

  Jason Snell (03:40): "Whether the developer prioritizes accessibility can now be seen at a glance, similar to privacy labels."

• Magnifier App on Mac (03:53): The Magnifier app, previously exclusive to iOS, is now available on macOS. It leverages the continuity camera to help users with low vision magnify objects in real-time using their iPhone as a remote camera.

  Jason Snell (04:58): "This allows low vision users to see what's on projectors or whiteboards by magnifying areas through their phone."

• Accessibility Reader (05:00): Alex Lindsay praises the Accessibility Reader for its ability to isolate text, enhancing readability not just for those with visual impairments but for all users dealing with cluttered interfaces.

  Alex Lindsay (05:00): "Accessibility features often improve the experience for everybody, not just those who need them."

• Braille Access (09:20): Blind Wiz introduces "Braille Access," transforming Apple devices into Braille notetakers when paired with compatible accessories, further bridging the gap for blind users.

  Alex Lindsay (09:38): "It's an entirely invisible part of the experience but essential for a large proportion of the user base."

• Live Captions on Apple Watch (09:57): Live captions now appear on the Apple Watch, providing real-time transcription of audio streamed from the iPhone to compatible headphones.

  Jason Snell (10:45): "Users can view live captions of what their iPhone is hearing on their paired Apple Watch while listening through their headphones."

• Personalized Background Sounds and Voice Control (13:11): New EQ settings for background sounds and an improved personal voice feature allow for greater customization and ease of use, especially for users at risk of losing their ability to speak.

  Andy Ihnatko (15:35): "Apple is speeding up personal voice training, reducing the required phrases from 150 to just 10, enabling faster setup."

• Vehicle Motion Cues (17:04): To combat motion sickness when using Macs in moving vehicles, Apple introduces vehicle motion cues that provide visual feedback synchronized with the vehicle's movement.

  Jason Snell (18:17): "This puts little dots on the screen that move with the car, providing a visual cue that helps reduce nausea."

Notable Quotes:

• Jason Snell (07:06): "This stuff is Apple at its best, I really do believe."
• Alex Lindsay (09:35): "Braille Access is essential to a large proportion of the user base."

2. Developer Frustrations: Glenn Fleischman’s Critique of Apple

The discussion pivots to Glenn Fleischman, a two-time Jeopardy champion and long-time contributor to Six Colors, who has recently voiced strong criticisms against Apple’s App Store policies.

Main Points:

• Court Testimony and Contempt (23:23): Fleischman testified against Apple, accusing them of unfair App Store practices. Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers expressed frustration, citing that an Apple executive lied under oath, leading to a referral to the Attorney General.

  Leo Laporte (33:24): "Judge Rogers wrote, 'Cook chose poorly the title of our show last week.'"

• Consistency and Policy Decisions (34:46): The hosts discuss how Apple’s internal decision-making, influenced by legal advice, prioritized minimal compliance over genuine competition, leading to fractured trust with developers.

  Jason Snell (34:50): "It’s a policy decision, that’s not a legal decision. The lawyers can warn them, but they chose to do the least compliant possible."

• Impact on Developers and Users (38:37): Andy Ihnatko shares his frustration as a user encountering apps that circumvent the App Store’s payment system, resulting in negative user reviews as a form of protest.

  Andy Ihnatko (39:15): "The only way that we can say as a user that we're upset about this is to give them one star."

Notable Quotes:

• Alex Lindsay (35:16): "Glenn felt betrayed by Apple’s retroactive decisions that unfairly burden developers."
• Jason Snell (45:31): "Love its products, not the company — that’s the core message."

3. The Rise of AI and Its Impact on Search and Content Creation

The hosts explore the growing influence of AI on search engines and content creation, particularly focusing on Google's response to emerging AI technologies.

Key Discussions:

• Google’s AI-Powered Search (49:38): Eddie Q, during a Google trial, claimed a decline in Google searches from iPhones, causing a significant drop in Google’s stock by 7%. The panel debates the validity of these claims versus Google's own reported data.

  Alex Lindsay (49:38): "We're seeing fewer and fewer Google searches on the iPhone, which allegedly is impacting their revenue."

• AI’s Effect on Traditional SEO (55:55): Jason Snell discusses how AI is rendering simple, SEO-optimized content obsolete, as AI can now provide direct answers to basic queries, significantly disrupting businesses that relied on ad-driven traffic.

  Jason Snell (57:02): "AI can replace the most straightforward, SEO-focused content, which was often low quality and designed solely to attract ad revenue."

• Future of Content and AI Integration (59:05): The conversation highlights the potential for AI to change how users interact with information, reducing the reliance on traditional websites and reshaping the internet’s content landscape.

  Jason Snell (61:02): "Apple’s third-party payment policies could lead to reduced profitability, but the company remains highly profitable overall."

Notable Quotes:

• Alex Lindsay (55:13): "AI is killing the level one content that was optimized solely for search engines."
• Jason Snell (60:35): "We are talking about being a third less profitable, which is a significant hit for Apple."

4. Special Segments and Community Updates

Jeopardy Champion Glenn Fleischman:

Jason Snell shares his excitement about having Glenn Fleischman back on the show after his participation in Jeopardy. Fleischman’s insights provide a unique perspective on Apple's policies and their broader implications.

Jason Snell (25:39): "Glenn did really well on Jeopardy, winning around $35,000 in two days."

Accessibility and Community Feedback:

The community expresses appreciation for Jason’s in-depth coverage of Apple’s accessibility initiatives, contrasting with past episodes that focused more on Apple's controversies.

Leo Laporte (32:25): "Number of people on our Twit community forums said that, Jason, you did a much better job of talking about the Apple spanking in court than we did last week on your shows."

5. Picks of the Week

Jason Snell’s Pick: iPhone 16e (114:09):

Jason recommends the iPhone 16e as a superb choice for users seeking a modern, affordable iPhone. Priced at $499 after trade-in, the phone offers robust performance, enhanced battery life, and essential features without the complexities of higher-end models.

Jason Snell (114:24): "Do not sleep on the iPhone 16e. It feels like today’s iPhone but at a more accessible price point."

Leo Laporte’s Pick: Windy Weather App (117:10):

Leo suggests the Windy app for its customizable weather models and real-time tracking, making it a favorite for users who need detailed and accurate weather information.

Leo Laporte (117:10): "Windy offers hyper-local weather with beautiful maps of wind, rain, and storms, making it a top choice for weather enthusiasts."

Andy Ihnatko’s Pick: CAD Rage (121:22):

Andy highlights CAD Rage, an app that simulates camera lenses and setups, invaluable for pre-visualization in multimedia projects. It streamlines the planning process by allowing users to experiment with different camera configurations virtually.

Andy Ihnatko (121:22): "CAD Rage lets you simulate a certain lens on a camera, which is super useful for planning shoots without the need to carry multiple lenses."

Alex Lindsay’s Pick: Graphic (119:43):

Alex recommends Graphic, a simple vector drawing app ideal for creating straightforward designs like posters and yard sale signs. Despite some concerns over its lack of recent updates, Graphic remains a reliable tool for users seeking uncomplicated graphic design solutions.

Alex Lindsay (119:43): "Graphic is the baseline for simple vector drawing apps, perfect for creating basic and effective designs without the complexity of professional tools."

6. Additional Highlights

Pope Leo’s Tech Savvy:

The hosts humorously note the first Pope, Leo, wearing an Apple Watch, showcasing his engagement with modern technology. Additionally, Pope Leo has voiced concerns over AI’s potential abuses, emphasizing the need for ethical considerations in technological advancements.

Alex Lindsay (97:11): "Pope Leo is quite technical and has expressed that AI is the new industrial revolution with potential for abuse."

Settlement Alert: Lope Voice Assistant Class Action (98:00):

Leo warns listeners about a potential scam regarding a $95 million settlement for Apple users affected by Siri’s unsolicited recordings. He advises checking official communications and avoiding fraudulent emails.

Leo Laporte (100:44): "If you receive an email about the Lopez Voice Assistant Settlement, delete it immediately unless it's from the official website."

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Conclusion

In this episode, MacBreak Weekly provides an insightful examination of Apple's latest strides in accessibility, the ongoing tension between Apple and its developer community, and the transformative impact of AI on search and content creation. The hosts blend technical analysis with community engagement, offering listeners a comprehensive overview of the current tech landscape.

For more in-depth discussions and ongoing updates, consider subscribing to the Twit TV Club Twit Discord and following their latest content on sixcolors.com.

Transcript

[Leo Laporte]

It's time for Mac Break Weekly. Andy's here, Jason's back. Alex is here. The whole gang is here. We're going to tell you how you can make $100 pretty much instantly. But you may have ignored the email because it looks a little shady. We'll also talk about Eddie Q creating a stirring up a hornet's nest with his court testimony last week. And you won't believe what Pope Leo's been wearing. All of that and more coming up next on MacBreak Weekly. Podcasts you love from you trust. This is twit. This is Mac Break Weekly. Episode 972, recorded Tuesday, May 13, 2025. Future Jeopardy. Champion. It's time for Mac Break Weekly, the show. We cover the latest Apple news. Hello, everybody. Welcome to the show. Jason Snell back from Arizona. It's good to see you.

[Jason Snell]

Nextcolors.com thank you. Good to be back.

[Leo Laporte]

Also here, Andy Inoco in the library from inoco.com. hi.

[Alex Lindsay]

Hey there. Heather Ho there.

[Leo Laporte]

And from Officehours Global, Alex Lindsay.

[Andy Ihnatko]

Hello. Hello.

[Leo Laporte]

It says Chihuahua coffee. Don't believe it.

[Andy Ihnatko]

Chihuahua coffee.

[Jason Snell]

He's not Micah Sargent.

[Leo Laporte]

He is not Micah Sargent and he does not have a Chihuahua. Do you have a Chihuahua?

[Andy Ihnatko]

I do not have a Chihuahua. I have a kid. That's it.

[Leo Laporte]

That's it. That's all you need. I was celebrating our new kitty. This kitty might actually come up here and visit at some point.

[Jason Snell]

So fun.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah. Jason, you had a good trip?

[Jason Snell]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Leo Laporte]

Get a good briefing from Apple.

[Jason Snell]

Good time. I mean, I don't know what you're talking about. Shelly Brisbane got a briefing about something we're going to talk about today.

[Leo Laporte]

This is the accessibility.

[Jason Snell]

Accessibility. Because this is where they pull the accessibility features that are going in the new OS forward from WWDC and talk about them for Global Accessibility Day. So we did get a briefing on that one.

[Andy Ihnatko]

They've done that before, haven't they? This has been. I think it's becoming a pattern.

[Jason Snell]

Yeah, it is.

[Alex Lindsay]

Third Thursday in May is Global Accessibility Awareness Day. So they usually time it there. A lot of good stuff this time. Yeah, there's good stuff all the time. But this is particularly interesting.

[Leo Laporte]

So we got 18.5 and what was the new Mac OS? 15 point something.

[Alex Lindsay]

15.55 also.

[Leo Laporte]

So now they're on the 8.5 release, which means we're halfway. Halfway to heaven in September. But these are kind of the final releases of those operating systems.

[Alex Lindsay]

We're halfway through digging ourselves out of the mess we made with the last point Zero release.

[Leo Laporte]

That's cereal.

[Alex Lindsay]

Oh, dear Lord.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah. But there are some new accessibility features. Where do you Want to start? CarPlay. What was Shelly most excited about? Let's put it that way.

[Jason Snell]

Oh, I don't know. I mean, there's a lot going on here.

[Alex Lindsay]

There's nutrition labels.

[Jason Snell]

Nutrition labels? Yeah. I think that. I mean, they're gonna. It's self reporting, so, you know, we'll see how it goes. But the idea is that when you look on an app in the App Store, you can actually see directly what accessibility features that app claims. And as Shelley put it, this is a big deal because it makes it a lot clearer up front before you even download the app. The way she put it is whether the developer prioritizes accessibility, because a lot of developers just don't even think about it and they won't fill out the labels. And so you'll know, you'll be like, oh, that's not great. So it's going to be just like. With the privacy and security nutrition labels you'll now be able to see at a glance if these apps in the App Store support accessibility features.

[Leo Laporte]

There will be, of course, pressure from users if you misrepresent your accessibility. I presume the nutrition label is accessible.

[Jason Snell]

How could it not be?

[Leo Laporte]

Wouldn't that be ironic?

[Jason Snell]

The other big one is a little bit of a head scratcher if you don't think about the use case, which is Magnifier, which is an app that's been available as an accessibility feature on iOS for a while, coming to the Mac. And it'll actually use. It can use continuity camera. And I heard from a colleague of mine who says she's got low vision.

[Leo Laporte]

Or is it? It is. This is in the Magnifier app.

[Jason Snell]

So the idea is she said she always used to sit at the front of her classes in high school and college because she couldn't see the board. And this is a way you can actually sit there with the camera facing out and your computer and you can magnify areas and you can see what's on the projector and you can see what's on the whiteboard and all of that can be you zoomed in and enhanced from your phone sitting facing outward on your desk, which is. It's pretty cool. I mean, maybe they should put a camera on the other side of the computer at some point. But they've got these pieces, right? They've got magnifier, they've got continuity camera and they're kind of putting that together so that low vision users can do that.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, I think that's really, really cool.

[Alex Lindsay]

Yeah. And there's something, there's something a little bit similar with the Accessibility reader, which is one of the things that I got really excited about because it's often said that accessibility features often can improve the experience for everybody, not just the people who need accessibility features. This is one of the big ones for me on my Android phone where Accessibility Reader will basically say, well, here's what's on the screen. Okay, I'm going to reformat it so that the text is big and isolated, doesn't have any distractions on it. It's going to be big sharp white letters on a dark background. The user is going to be able to adjust the font size and all the kind of things to make it more readable, which is obviously a really good thing for people who require that feature. It's also like kind of a hack because anytime I'm on my phone and I'm trying to read an article, but there are so many layers of freaking ads and pop ups that I can't navigate through it. If I just simply touch this feature on my Android phone, it just says, oh, well, here's the, it figures out, here's the actual text of the article and simply isolates it on again, white letters on a black background and suddenly I can actually read the darn thing.

[Leo Laporte]

That's fantastic. This image from the Apple press release shows a student with her phone pointed at the book, at the top of the book. And is that continuity camera. I'm not sure what it is. And then it's so cool because then it does, it turns it into plain text. That's big screen, white on black, high contrast.

[Jason Snell]

I love that we're starting this way too because so often the show, especially these last few weeks, right. Has been kind of rough about Apple and Apple's behavior and courts and rulings and all sorts of things like that. And I saw somebody on I think Mastodon or Blue sky this morning who linked to the Apple press release in the newsroom about this and said this is Apple at its best. And, and I mean, it's easy to be cynical. There are a lot of things going on, including Apple behavior that a lot of us might not like. We'll get to Glenn Fleisches, but they're not.

[Leo Laporte]

Just a little.

[Jason Snell]

But they're not, they're not wrong. This, this stuff is Apple at its best, I really do believe.

[Leo Laporte]

Okay, yes. I will also point out Google and Microsoft are very, very good in this arena.

[Jason Snell]

Well, I'm not saying compared to others. I'm saying this is Apple's best self.

[Leo Laporte]

Companies need to do this. And I think what's great is that all of the big companies understand that and do that. I mean, Microsoft does amazing things with its Xbox controllers. I mean, accessibility is very good, as you point out, Andy. And Android, Apple leads the way a little bit though. I don't think Android has anything like this magnifier. I think that's fantastic.

[Alex Lindsay]

Well, yeah, it's.

[Andy Ihnatko]

This is this.

[Alex Lindsay]

I'm sorry, I was just thinking about the best way to phrase it. This is one area in like, like security in which both Apple and Google are very, very happily competing with each other. Where if you, if you've spoken to the teams on each, on each company, they are. No, they don't hide that. Ooh, that's a good idea, let's do that. Or ooh, we were going to do something like that, but now we're gon, now we can, let's bump that up in priority. Like I said, that reader feature, it's coming to the iPhone and iOS and Mac. I've had it on Android for a while. That doesn't mean, oh, Apple's falling behind. It's that there are a lot of things to tackle. They're very, very serious about this and if at some point they saw this feature on Android, said, ooh, that's a great feature, let's do it, that's good. I don't think that's what happened because they have enough people working engineers inside Apple that know what is needed and what should be done, that they are pursuing it on their own timeline.

[Leo Laporte]

Blind whiz in our club, Twit, who from his handle I assume is a wizard, says that Apple is better than Google by huge strides. Google screen reader Talkback sucks in comparison to Apple's voiceover. But he, he does say, or she says, accessibility is why I'm a huge Apple fan. So, and this is also new and I'm, I not, I don't know how to describe this, but there's a braille experience called Braille Access that turns the iPhone, iPad, Mac and Vision Pro into a full featured Braille notetaker. Now, I presume you have to have a Braille screen reader or something so that you can read the braille, right? There's no raised dots on the phone, but it's pretty cool that it does turn it into braille.

[Alex Lindsay]

Yeah, there are braille accessories. I'm sure that other people are more wise about this than I am, but yeah, this is the problem that people who don't. Don't rely on these kind of inputs and accessories. It's an entirely invisible part of the experience.

[Leo Laporte]

Right.

[Alex Lindsay]

But it's essential to a large proportion of the user base.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah. Blind wiz says he has a Braille reader attached to the phone and. And. Or Braille display, I guess you'd call it. So he was. He. And probably not the phone. I'm guessing. Blind Wizards to a. To a Mac. He's actually participating in our club. Twit. Discord in Braille. That's fantastic.

[Jason Snell]

Amazing.

[Leo Laporte]

Does it keep up? That's really amazing. Wow. Because sometimes that discord can get pretty quick. But he's able to participate. I think that's. Yeah. Thank you. Live captions arrive on the Apple Watch. That's really interesting. So you could look. If you're staring. If somebody's staring at their watch, it's not because they're bored with you. It's because they want to see what you're saying, I guess. Wow. The iPhone Live Listen turns the iPhone into a remote microphone, which then streams content to AirPods, made for iPhone hearing aids or Beats headphones. And when the session's active on iPhone, users can view live captions of what their iPhone is hearing on the paired Apple Watch while listening along to the audio.

[Andy Ihnatko]

It'll be interesting to see how quickly Apple takes this to where some of the other headsets have already gone, which is translation, you know, like really like live translation to your AirPods, you know, where, you know, it's not just a hearing aid. You just hear every language around you as if in whatever your natural language is this.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah. And this, by the way, lends some credence to what Mark Gurman has been saying about Apple working on some sort of glasses. You can imagine, maybe cameras in your AirPods or cameras in your glasses.

[Jason Snell]

One of the things that Apple does. Yeah. Apple very secretive company. We all know that. That's not a secret. Huh? Huh? But here is the. I wanted more laughter there. Please clap. Anyway, they. Thank you. Ha. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. You're too kind.

[Leo Laporte]

I swear. I.

[Alex Lindsay]

The Big Bang Theory. Audiences are the greatest in the world.

[Jason Snell]

But what Apple does is they do build foundational technologies for future products in public. Right. And sometimes when we talk about. Thank you.

[Leo Laporte]

I'm sorry.

[Jason Snell]

Sometimes when we talk about. About Apple's future rumors. Right. You can start to look around and see features that are laying there that are like, oh, yeah, you take that. Hiding in plain sight, and there they are. And that's because they. I mean they can't. Not only do a lot of those features have utility on other Apple devices, but they can't build it all like at once. So they build it in pieces and they know what they're building toward and sometimes you can see the shapes of it. I did not have brain reading on my bingo card for today, but there's the Wall Street Journal did a report today about how a company called Synchron that uses neural signals and they're going to build that into switch control in Apple's OSes. And that's the idea of being able to have a brain signal input device for people who are obviously very mobility restricted.

[Alex Lindsay]

And that just shows you how forward thinking a lot of their work is that there right now there is no. My understanding from the Wall Street Journal article is that there is no device specifically that this is designed to support. They are simply laying the groundwork so that when this technology does mature, hopefully imminently there will be a standard that Apple has created that people who are developing this hardware and the software can conform to so that it will be part of Apple's accessibility package from the get go.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah. Very, very cool. There's more. This is not a. This is a lot.

[Alex Lindsay]

It's a great announcement.

[Leo Laporte]

Enhanced View with Apple Vision Pro for users who are blind. By the way, Blind Wiz is on his phone with a braille screen. Wow. For users who are blind or have low vision vision OS will expand vision accessibility features using the advanced camera system on Apple Vision Pro. So you can zoom in on the Vision Pro. That's pretty cool. The new API will enable approved apps to access the main camera to provide live person to person assistance for visual interpretation. That's Be My Eyes.

[Jason Snell]

Like Be My Eyes. Yeah, exactly.

[Leo Laporte]

Then there are AI versions of Be My Eyes now coming. Look at that. You can zoom in. I still think cooking with your Vision Pro on is not ideal, but okay. At least you can read the cookbook. Other additional updates. This is all, by the way, not yet in iOS. I hope I didn't confuse people. This is coming in iOS 19, right?

[Jason Snell]

Yeah, this is all going to be in the fall. This is essentially a pull forward of things that otherwise would have been announced at wwdc because they've got enough, they can pull the accessibility feature forward.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, background sounds. By the way, Anthony Nielsen, our creative director does have a pair of Vision Pros and he says he's cooked in them. It's easier than an iPad. Well, yeah, I mean it's hard to cook when you're holding the iPad up to your eyes, but okay.

[Alex Lindsay]

Can you imagine being a lobster on top of everything else? That's on your days going around, the last thing you see are those spooky eyes looking at you.

[Leo Laporte]

Background sounds become easier to personalize with new EQ settings. The option to stop. Oh, that's good, because my mom can't hear me play the piano with the background sounds off, minimize distraction increases. Oh, this is that playing in the background?

[Jason Snell]

Yeah, it's the new background sounds, playlists and stuff like that.

[Leo Laporte]

This would be useful. Pink noise is good for my tinnitus and so I do use background sounds in my hearing aids, actually. It'd be kind of cool to have that more programmable. For users at risk of losing their ability to speak, personal voice becomes faster, easier. That's where you train. Use your voice to train the iPhone and then it can speak in your voice, which is sort of.

[Jason Snell]

The quality is going to go up, it's going to be faster to set up, it currently takes 150 different training phrases, and then you basically have to wait overnight as it builds the voice. According to Al Apple, they're going to use 10 phrases and it will train in a few minutes. So that's kind of amazing.

[Andy Ihnatko]

And it would be. I have a hard time believing that it will have as much detail with less data, you know, from your voice. I know that I've talked to some folks that have spent a lot of time in 11 labs training their voice and then also done the Apple one. And it just feels like the Apple one is like a little tricycle, like, to them, like, compared to, you know, and it. But it's, you know, they have 20 or 30 hours of training in 11 labs, you know, with stuff that they're reading. And then it's amazing what they do.

[Jason Snell]

Yeah.

[Andy Ihnatko]

And they. And then they have this little thing and they're just like, you know, it would just be nice to be able to scale it. It's great to have something that's easy, that gets close, but it'd be nice to have something that says, okay, I really want to save my voice into the future because I may lose it. Or just that I want to be able to, you know, because the folks that I'm talking to that are using 11 labs for this, it's because they want to do things for documentaries and other things with their voice. Then they don't want to. They don't want to do it anymore. Like, they just type it in and be me, you know, and so that's so they're pushing it to that level right now.

[Alex Lindsay]

But it's a very big deal that they can build a good enough voice under limited number of inputs because some people don't, they don't get advanced word that they're going to lose their voice. So you're dealing with whatever scraps of messages that you seem to have left behind.

[Andy Ihnatko]

Yeah, yeah. And I think that. And again, 11 labs is good for that because if you have a lot of historical stuff, you just throw it all in and let it churn through the stuff that's, that's there. But the, but I think that it would be great if Apple made a bigger version of it. I mean, I think again, I think it's great to have a quick version that does a very good job with what it has, but also giving us the option of, hey, I want to. What's the main, like a big version of that? Because I would love to have that type of solution built into my phone, you know, as opposed to. Because eventually you get to a point where you're texting and when you text somebody on the other side, they hear you. You know, like when they're, if they're driving or whatever, they just hear your voice saying the words that you typed in.

[Leo Laporte]

I'm going to have to start recording these episodes. Vehicle motion cue. This is weird. Have you ever gotten the. The most car sick I ever got was riding a commuter bus to San Francisco playing Doom on the commuter bus. And because everything was moving one way and the screen was moving another way, they're actually going to build vehicle motion cues into the Mac to reduce motion sickness while riding in a moving vehicle.

[Jason Snell]

Yeah, it's a great feature on iOS, so it's interesting.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, it's already on iOS.

[Jason Snell]

It's on iOS. They're going to bring it into the Mac. Yeah, it puts little dots on the screen and then as your car is turning or whatever, the dots move with the motion. Because all of these devices have multi point accelerometers in them. And the idea it, it doesn't work for everybody, but I've heard from a lot of people who said that it really helps with car sickness. Because what you're, what's happening is that right? Your, your what limbic system is expecting.

[Leo Laporte]

Telling you one thing that you're moving.

[Jason Snell]

Which you are, but your eyes are locked on a screen that isn't moving and the disconnect makes you sick.

[Andy Ihnatko]

Well, and the reason the disconnect makes you sick is because the only other time that happens, you have Been poisoned. Like, you know, like. So we have a million years of get everything out of your stomach right now that's connected to. And some of us are more sensitive to it. Other. But yeah, it's a. Yeah.

[Jason Snell]

So instead the dots are present and apparently this does a little trick to your vision field where there is feedback of the motion that you're feeling and it decreases your nausea.

[Leo Laporte]

There's an animation on the Apple page, so I thought maybe they were jiggling the screen. No, as you move, as the car's moving, these dots in the background move with the car. So you get a visual cue that you're moving which matches your inner ear. Of course, the screen that you're looking at isn't moving, but those dots kind of back it up. That's interesting.

[Jason Snell]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Leo Laporte]

So it does work for some people.

[Jason Snell]

You'Re saying it does. I've heard from a lot of people who've had great success with it on the iPhone in the current version of iOS. So bringing this to the Mac boy, I used my laptop on the bus all the time and until I couldn't anymore.

[Andy Ihnatko]

Right.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, the bus can really do it. Yeah.

[Alex Lindsay]

You can also try chewing on ginger or can candy ginger. That always. That. That's the one. Like, that's the one trick that always works for me whenever I board like a ferry, it's like, wow, that's like.

[Leo Laporte]

Really? That works for you?

[Alex Lindsay]

Yeah. 100 of the time, I.

[Leo Laporte]

Every time I'm on a boat, they have little things of candy ginger at the after meals. And I always gobble as much as.

[Alex Lindsay]

I can at the. At the Yosemite conference. Like, to get to Yosemite, there's this really curvy, twisty, beautiful winding road. And after my first conference, I learned to a have a pack of candied ginger for myself and also offer it to people as we get into the car.

[Leo Laporte]

It's also a delicious thing to have. Anyway. Improved eye tracking. We'll have the option to use a switch or dwell to make. I don't know. With head tracking, users will be able to more easily control iPhone and iPad with head movements. For people with mobility disabilities, there's switch control for brain. Oh, this is what you were talking about. The brain computer interfaces. Wow. Assistive access adds a new custom Apple TV app with a simplified media player. That might be nice. Music haptics on the iPhone become more customizable so you can be listening to a song, it'll tap for you, or you can have it just be the vocals. Sound recognition adds name recognition A new way for users who are deaf or hard of hearing to know when their name is being called. Oh, that's great. Voice can. This is really amazing. Shelley was impressed by all of this.

[Jason Snell]

Yeah, I mean, it's a combination. So Shelley writes about this stuff for me and is herself a low vision user who's written a book about accessibility. I think she's always impressed. This is the accessibility equivalent of the WWDC keynote, right?

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, sure.

[Jason Snell]

These are all the new features and they are very thoughtful and often they're surprising, especially to those of us who are not tuned into accessibility as much as people like Shelley are. But yeah, it shows you. I mean, again, yes, there's a press release. Yes, it's good publicity for Apple. But also there are a lot of people at Apple who are not only deeply committed to accessibility on their devices, but I think culturally, again, we talk a lot about a lot of maybe negative things about Apple culture from time to time that go into some of their decisions. I also do believe that culturally making time to make sure accessibility is good and that your accessibility features are growing is a part of Apple's culture. They really do care about it and prioritize it.

[Leo Laporte]

And Apple Fitness welcomes Chelsea Hill in a dance workout. She is the founder of Rollettes, an LA based wheelchair dance team. That sounds like that'd be fun. Anyway, lots of great stuff from Apple. Well done. To celebrate World Accessibility Day, we'll see more about this. Oh, I didn't mention the CarPlay has some additional features too. CarPlay is going to have bigger text and a couple of other features that I might actually find pretty useful as well. So good on Apple. Well done. That's our whole first segment, you see. Good news from Apple. Now don't get too settled in because next we're going to find out like Glenn Fleischman has, has turned against Cupertino. I thought it was great that he put this on the six colors.

[Jason Snell]

Yeah, he's doing that for us now. He's writing for us. So he's, you know, he writes one help column, which is what he's writing for us. And he's like, jason, I have a post about Apple. Do you want that too? I'm like, sure, Glenn. Right? All right, let's chill.

[Leo Laporte]

Let's go. Jeopardy Champion Glenn Fleischman, who is now joined by Dan Moran.

[Jason Snell]

Yes.

[Leo Laporte]

Is it a spoiler? Can I say what happened or is.

[Jason Snell]

That it happened last week and it's so. It's not, I think, technically, I mean, unless you're really backed up on Jeopardy. Or something like. Yeah. Dan Moran, my colleague get six colors, is like Glenn Fleischman, a now a two time Jeopardy. Champion.

[Leo Laporte]

So I was so disappointed when the college professor comes on in day three. I thought this could, this might be bad. But. Yeah, is, was. Have you talked to Dan since?

[Jason Snell]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I, I. Funny, funny story. So they, they record five episodes a day, two days a week.

[Leo Laporte]

Right.

[Jason Snell]

That's how they do it on Jeopardy. So a week's worth of episodes.

[Leo Laporte]

It was a month ago or it was.

[Jason Snell]

So it was. It was. Yeah, it was two months ago. It was in March.

[Leo Laporte]

So he couldn't say anything for two months.

[Jason Snell]

Yeah, yeah. And he knew what happened. I only knew that he went out there and that I knew. And this is the funny part is I knew he was there. And they turn off your phone and everything. Right. So I knew he was there that day. I was doing a podcast that day. And then at the end of the day, you know, he obviously, he went through that process. So he got on Jeopardy. The next day because he was in LA for two days. Because they were.

[Leo Laporte]

So he had told you in the past. Yeah, I took the test online. Oh, yeah, Yeah. I got the idea. I got the idea of the Zoom interview.

[Jason Snell]

Yeah.

[Leo Laporte]

The audition.

[Jason Snell]

I mean, I went through.

[Leo Laporte]

You knew that he got accepted. He was on the list.

[Jason Snell]

He had been trying to go on Jeopardy. For years and hadn't gotten even to the audition part. I submitted to Jeopardy. A couple years ago and immediately went all the way through to being put in the pool. They never called me. I felt guilty. I felt guilty because I knew Dan had been trying for like 10 years and hadn't done it. But then Dan went through that process and shot right all the way through to being on the show. But the funny part is on the Tuesday, I check in to see where Dan is and spoiled myself about Dan's run because he was at Disneyland. So I knew Friday's episode was anticlimactic. Climactic for me because I knew that he wasn't going to week two, but he won like $35,000 or something in two days. He did great. So that's, that's awesome.

[Leo Laporte]

He showed well for the nerds. He did a good job. He did. You now have two Jeopardy. Champions working for you.

[Jason Snell]

Six colors. I am deeply outclassed by my colleague.

[Leo Laporte]

Six col. Now you have to re.

[Jason Snell]

Up or you have to re up. I took the test again this year and we'll see what happens. But my. Yeah, my time expired, so.

[Alex Lindsay]

Well, I'm going to say that I say proudly that I passed the exam and it was only my personality and general physical appearance that caused them to say no.

[Jason Snell]

They tell you that that. That feels like it was.

[Alex Lindsay]

I think it was implied.

[Jason Snell]

The final step is you are on a zoom with a bunch of people and it's. And my understanding from that was that you've already qualified to be on Jeopardy. The zoom is for casting. They want to see your demeanor and how the look of your face and your age and where you're from and all the things they do because at that point, they've got an unlimited supply of qualified contestants and what they want to do is cast their shows and they didn't call me. So, yeah, good for doing a contestant search in Boston.

[Alex Lindsay]

So at least I got to play with the buzzers.

[Jason Snell]

So that was nice.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, I didn't realize you had gone that far. That's cool.

[Jason Snell]

Yeah, I guess.

[Leo Laporte]

What about you? A Jeopardy. Champion. Would you like to be?

[Jason Snell]

Maybe, Maybe, Maybe all the questions. I have one other Jeopardy. Thing I just wanted to say, which is a lot of us who talk about going on Jeopardy. We talk about what our ultimate terrible Jeopardy. Board would be. And mine is like opera kings, numbered kings, French stuff, painters. I have nightmares about going on Jeopardy. And every question is about French things and. And numbered kings. And I just like. And oh, and the Bible. I'm really bad with the Bible. I did not pay attention in Sunday school when I was a kid and. And so. And there was Bible, a Bible category. And Dan did really well on it. He said I was a religious studies minor. I'm like, ah, see that? There you go. It finally paid off. After all this time, that Cornell education finally paid off.

[Alex Lindsay]

I mean, plus eternal salvation.

[Leo Laporte]

But yada, yada, yada, yada, yada yada. Hey. Yeah. So congratulations, Dan.

[Jason Snell]

That's fantastic. It was awesome.

[Leo Laporte]

Let's take a little break. More to come with Andy Iannako, Alex Lindsey, Jason Snell, Mac Break Weekly Our show today, brought to you by Bitwarden. I love this company. And this is the password manager I use. What's always surprising to me is how many businesses use Bitwarden. It's open source. I always feel like this is the. The geek's secret. But no Bit Warden has really, over the last few years become the trusted leader in passwords keeping secrets. It's really great for your SSH. Keys and other kinds of secrets. API keys, API secrets that you don't want to accidentally post on GitHub. Then of course, passkey Management. More and more I'm using passkeys with bit warden. It's nice because, because Bitwarden's on all my devices. My passkeys are everywhere. With more than 10 million users across 180 countries, over 50,000 business customers worldwide now Bitwarden continues to protect businesses and individuals everywhere. G2 consistently ranks at number one in user satisfaction every year. They do this on World password day. Their 5th annual World Password Day survey. Survey says everybody's gonna benefit every generational benefit from a good password manager. It's not just us old folks. Gen Z may be the most digitally native generation. You know, they grew up with the Internet, but they've been found guilty of, get this, the highest incident incidence of password reuse. In the survey. 72% of Gen Z respondents reuse the same password across accounts. What? You ought to know better. Well, they do know better. As it turns out, 79% of them admit password reuse is risky. They know it. But nevertheless, 59% recycle an existing password even when updating accounts with companies that disclose data breaches. So you get the email, it says we had a data breach. You have to change your password and they recycle the old one. Come on man. See if they were using Bitwarden, it'd make it so easy. It generates long strong passwords that you use unique to each site. And by the way, they'll tell you if a password has been exposed in a breach. They'll even help you change those passwords. Bitwarden has announced the launch of something new. This is really interesting. It's called Access Intelligence. So if you're a company that has Gen Z employees and who doesn't Access intelligence helps enterprises help their employees to proactively defend against internal credential risks and external phishing threats. Yeah, you kind of need this. Access Intelligence has two core functionalities. Risk insights, reduces alert fatigue and allows IT teams to identify, prioritize and remediate at risk credentials. Advanced phishing blocker alerts and redirects users from known phishing sites in real time. All right. It uses a continuously updated open source block list of malicious domains. Just one more way. Bitwarden makes you safe, but I think what's important emphasizes is it makes you and your company safe. But it's also easy to use. They prioritize simplicity because you know what, if a security tool is hard to use, it's not going to do much good. It's bit warden setup just takes a few minutes. If you're moving from another password Manager. It'll support importing from almost every password management solution. And I always say it's open source. That means you can inspect their source code. Anyone can. And they're regularly audited by third party experts. Bit Warden meets stringent security and compliance requirements. They protect the vaults. The SOC2 Type 2 GDPR, HIPAA CCPA compliant, ISO 27001:2002 certification. You know, all the important ones. You and your business deserve an effective solution for enhanced online security. Get started today with Bitwarden's free trial of a teams or enterprise plan. Or get started for free across all devices as an individual [e-mail] TWIT that's bitwarden.com TWIT we thank him so much for supporting MacBreak weekly. Number of people on our Twit community [e-mail] said that, Jason, you did a much better job of talking about the Apple spanking in court than we did last week on your shows. So.

[Jason Snell]

Well, thank you to those people.

[Leo Laporte]

They said, especially on Twitter on Sunday. We just, we mentioned that Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers was very upset with that one.

[Jason Snell]

She was a little miffed. Yeah.

[Leo Laporte]

And that she said an Apple executive lied on the stand and has referred that executive to the Attorney General. She also said that this is kind of interesting. I think you talked about this. Phil Schiller, Apple's erstwhile chief marketing officer, wanted to do better in response to the judge's order to open the App Store. But others at the company said, no, no, no, no, let's do what I call malicious compliance. Let's do the least we possibly can. And Tim Cook decided to do the latter. Judge Rogers wrote Cook chose poorly the title of our show last week.

[Jason Snell]

Literally an Indiana Jones reference sitting right there. Sitting right there. She didn't footnote it, but we all.

[Alex Lindsay]

Know she really tore Apple apart.

[Jason Snell]

In the last week, I heard from a lot of people and this is a good question that I think as a not a lawyer, I did not ask that. A lot of people out there asked, which is where were the lawyers in all of this? And I think the answer is that, you know, they, they gave advice, undoubtedly, and that's privileged and so we don't know what it is. And then that led to them having meetings about what they wanted to do. I can't imagine that the lawyers didn't say here is a range of possibilities. Right. Like. And that it is a spectrum from what Phil Schiller is saying, which is, I was there. She's mad at Us, let's comply. And Luca Maestri saying, let's make this the least compliant possible so that we can essentially, it's a, it's a choice no one will ever make because it's non competitive in every single way. And that the lawyers are like, okay, the more you go toward this side, the more you risk her bringing down the hammer, but the less money you get. So you know, in the end that's a policy decision, that's not a legal decision. The lawyers can warn them. But I thought it was interesting cuz a lot of people are like, isn't it the job of their lawyers to warn them of the consequences?

[Leo Laporte]

I'm sure they did.

[Jason Snell]

I'm sure they did. I'm sure they did.

[Leo Laporte]

They may have also said, and Alex, you pointed this out last week, that the letter of the law only requires you to do this. And that's what they did.

[Andy Ihnatko]

The thing is, is that if you're not. Unless she prescribes exactly what they do. I mean, she's one angry judge. This is gonna go into appeal.

[Jason Snell]

Weird.

[Alex Lindsay]

Lying under oath tends to make judges.

[Andy Ihnatko]

No, no, no. I was gonna say the big mistake was line under oath. And the bigger mistake was to have emails like, what are you doing? Like messages and slack like, what are you thinking?

[Leo Laporte]

Well, it's interesting, people in our, They've already community were a little mad at you, Apple, for suggesting that the real, that the real mad at me was to write things down. Not. Yeah, the real mistake was to not do the right thing.

[Andy Ihnatko]

I don't think, I don't think that Apple should have to do any of this stuff because they're not, they're not a monopoly without being a monopoly, regardless of whether we think it's good or bad. Bad without a monopoly. They're not even a majority. They're not even a majority. They're of a phone, of the phone market. They are minority in the phone market. I don't believe that they're. I don't believe the iPhone is something different. And so I don't. We can talk about whether it's right or wrong, but I don't think the courts should be allowed to tell Apple what to do because they're not a monopoly. And I don't think that, you know, and so that's the fundamentally. And I think that they come from the same place. They come from the same place that I come from. And so of course, if someone told me something that I fundamentally disagreed with, I would, I would, I would pay my fines with pennies like you know, like, you know, and that's, and that's what they're doing.

[Jason Snell]

I get it. But the Supreme Court disagrees with you. Right. Like, this went all the way up.

[Alex Lindsay]

The Supreme Court and every court internationally in which this topic has been discussed has not lost. Has lost, not just by a little, but definitively leaving it to the US That.

[Jason Snell]

Yeah, yeah, leaving to it. To the US in this case. They appealed it. It went all the way up. Up. And they said, no, it's, it's, it's fine. Other than these little details that, that, that she adjusted, I think. Yeah, it is. I, One of the things that I've been thinking about, about this is I get the argument that, you know, they were following the letter of the ruling in the, in the least, you know, the least they could do. Paying in pennies, essentially. That is, that is true. However, there's another way to view it, which is the judge didn't make, didn't dictate to Apple what its terms would be. Right. This is actually one of those complaints that comes up a lot about the dma, about the European Commission making rulings, is that there's a lot of pushback that says these bureaucrats shouldn't be designing policy for companies. The policy should be designed by the companies, not by the bureaucrats. And the judge in this case left it to Apple to create a policy that fostered competition in payments, and they failed at that. Right. But what she didn't do is say, I'm going to just set it at 10% and that's the new setting. She said, why don't you go off and come up with a system that will please me in the sense that it will be competitive? And that's why they're in contempt, is that they didn't do that. But what, but I appreciate the fact that what she didn't do is say, I will make a policy for Apple. She said, you make the policy. You are, are. You are Apple. This is going to be your policy. Just make it in a way that fulfills these needs. And that's what Phil Schiller was probably saying is, look, I know what you're trying to do here. She's not going to like it because what she wants is competition. And a malicious 27% is not going to please her. And he was right about that. And they didn't listen. And I think that's the problem. But I would not, I don't think it would have been better if she had said, okay, Apple, I'm setting your percentages. Here they are. Because it really isn't her business to do that part of it.

[Andy Ihnatko]

And I have to admit that as a user, I just fundamentally hate being taken out of the, out of the App Store. So, so I, I, I, I had three apps this weekend that I put in and they immediately wanted me to go out of the App Store and I just went, I had already downloaded them and so I gave them one star. Like, and I just said third party, this is a third party payment system. Because when I reinstall now I have to figure this all out again. And I value my time and I value the, the low friction that I had before. And I'm, and I am am absolutely going to be malicious about this forever. Like basically, if someone gives, if someone takes me out of the App Store, they're going to get one star. One star. One star. One star. One star. One star.

[Alex Lindsay]

Because yeah, I mean, Amazon users, that's.

[Andy Ihnatko]

All the only way we can vote. We don't have access to the courts. We don't have access. The only way that we can say as a user that we're upset about this is to give them one star, you know, and so that's, that's my vote, you know, it's going to be one star that I don't want to do this. I think it's the worst thing you could do to your app and I'm going to give you one star for it.

[Alex Lindsay]

Well, I mean, my reaction to that is how dare Amazon let you buy a book in two steps instead of eight steps, Especially when six of those steps were completely artificially imposed by Apple and create a situation where there was not 30% of extra profit in the sale of this comic book that Amazon could dip into again. We've been through this before, we're not going to go this again. But I'm going to say what I want to say and that is that I absolutely don't understand your position here. I don't understand where, yes, you would much rather give a one star review, which to me, every time I see a one star review, I'm basically, if I could write a part of the UI that says hide everything, that's a one star review because they're absolutely meaningless for the purpose of review. They mean nothing and they just do nothing but contaminate the value of that system. But let's put that aside for now. The problem is that, yes, so you're saying that one star is you don't have the ability to so and so this is your way to be heard well, that's the role of the courts to simply to say that, look, if there is a. There are only a few.

[Andy Ihnatko]

I come from the country.

[Alex Lindsay]

Trillion dollar companies out. Therefore, companies that are worth much less than a trillion dollars don't have the ability to fight against something that might be considered fundamentally wrong. That's where the courts step in and say, wow, we're gonna hear everything. We're gonna take years on this and we're gonna fund. We're gonna. At the end of this process, again, no matter what court we're in, no matter what country this court is in, we are deciding that, yeah, Apple has not justified this one part of its App Store policy and ordering Apple to change that. I don't understand why this is not seen as a positive thing for users. Again, I'm not going to keep. I don't keep going.

[Andy Ihnatko]

The thing is that I don't want to give my.

[Alex Lindsay]

Get your opinion.

[Andy Ihnatko]

I don't want to give them my contact information. I don't want to have to log in again. I don't want to have to figure this out like I had it working perfectly before. I buy so few books that I'm completely insensitive.

[Leo Laporte]

We've heard your argument. I understand. We can stop now.

[Andy Ihnatko]

I know, but it's just. It is. Anyway, I just feel like the user is being ignored in this environment.

[Leo Laporte]

You're being ignored. Not all users, but you're being ignored.

[Andy Ihnatko]

I'll do whatever I can to Glenn Fleischmann to get people to say to not ignored.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, don't do the one star thing. That's stupid.

[Andy Ihnatko]

Please do it.

[Leo Laporte]

Please do that. Glenn Fleischman, in fact, has the complete opposite point of view. He's pissed. And he wrote a piece in on Six Colors saying, you know, I've lost my religion. And he's particularly pissed because, you know, you may say, well, Apple's protecting users. But what his point is, and I think it's well taken, is Apple's dumping on its developers. Do you want to talk about what he wrote, Jason, since it's on6colors.com?

[Jason Snell]

Well, I mean, Glenn's been writing about Apple for a very long time. And, you know, this is very much like. Like, it's a good piece. He's saying, look, no company is perfect. And you always think about things and there are issues. I mean, he mentions lots of issues over the years, including, I know Andy's favorite, which is the gold Apple watch. Like, there are all of these things that are there. But he said he felt the thing that he felt betrayed by was the idea that they were told to come up with a competitive plan and instead retroactively built, ordered a consultant to justify a percentage that was so high that it would be impossible. They basically said, oh, 3% credit card, well, we'll charge 27. And then somebody came to them and said, actually in the long run it's more like 4 or 5%. And they said, good, even better because that means that it's not.

[Leo Laporte]

It's now 31% total.

[Jason Snell]

And so this is the thing. It's like, like he said it was broken trust. He said that it was, you know, they're lying under oath, they're not following the orders and that it shows something about their priorities, right? Like the idea that their cultural priorities right now definitely involve doing, you know, squeezing as much out of financial transactions on the store as possible. And I mean, I made, I've been thinking about this for the last week and I had the same thought, which is, you know, 30% is what we're talking about. But like the non competitiveness of it is actually the bigger issue here. It's 30% because Steve Jobs said it would be 30%. It could be 70%, it could be 90%. They could do whatever they want if they have complete control. And so if you think about developers and you think about users and you think about degraded user experience and you think about developers being treated badly even though their apps helped build the iPhone up, which is incredibly, it's like an $80 billion profit a year business for Apple. Profit a year business for Apple. They're doing okay with the iPhone and it helps being built by the software. And their view is that they deserve part of the, you know, the gains from the software developers. And a lot of the software developers would argue that the gains are that they have a thriving platform full of great apps that sells iPhones. But anyway, I mean, I think, I think that this is Glenn doing a thing that a lot of us have come to grips with over the years. I certainly did when I started in journalism and started covering Apple. Nothing gets you, nothing takes the blinders off like being right down close to the metal. And the idea that, like I've always said for, for probably since the 90s, at some point, love its products. Not my job to love the company. It's my job to love the products for what they do for me.

[Alex Lindsay]

That's it.

[Leo Laporte]

This is a picture of Glenn actually. He's given up the Mac. Now he's typing all his articles. I'm sorry that some typewriters only. He points out that back in 19. What was it, 1998, he told the New York Times, this is my last Mac I'll ever buy.

[Jason Snell]

Yeah. Then Steve came back.

[Leo Laporte]

Then Steve came back and it all changed. But we've all gone up and down through this.

[Jason Snell]

But it's thoughtful. I mean. I mean, the thing I like about a piece like this is that it's not one of these kind of rage, quit kind of things. It's more like, why do I feel this way?

[Leo Laporte]

Right.

[Jason Snell]

I think he was surprised at how much emotional investment he had in Apple.

[Leo Laporte]

Right.

[Jason Snell]

To be dismayed. Right. I mean, he was like, oh, no, I got less cynical and less jaded. And that's a good thing in general. But in this case, you know, you feel it a little bit when you see their priorities laid bare. Even if you could suspect, based on the behavior, that these were always their priorities.

[Alex Lindsay]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I think, that there's always a transitional moment from Apple user childhood to Apple user adulthood where you realize that Apple is not a magical company. They are not two hippies in a garage. Have not been so for decades now. They are multi. This is why I keep putting that phrase out. They are a $3 trillion company, usually the most viable company in the entire world. They don't love you as a company. They don't care about you. And if you thought that they did, that's not on them. That's on you every time. And it's possible for them to do things that are both incredibly selfish and also incredibly good for the user at the same time. And it doesn't negate either of those things. But if they are doing, they also do something that is very, very selfish and also very, very much against the user. If this is something that does not fit into what they perceive as their business plan. And that's not a slam against Apple. That's an acknowledgement that this is capitalism. This is interfacing with a large company. And once again, if you thought that, oh, the reason why they make the best. The best hardware and they don't contaminate the. They don't want to make cheap products is because they take pride. They're designers. They go where the puck is going to be. It's like, again, that was on you. I'll close by saying that, like, one of the most profound things that. That I was ever told in my religious education was like, near the end of my religious education, which is when the priest was saying, well, you're now in your late teens. It's now time to let go of the faith of a child and start to develop the faith of an adult. And that means that you're not simply praying to the icons. You understand the symbolism, you understand the principles, and you have to live by by these principles.

[Leo Laporte]

It's more than Apple just trying to do the letter of the law. And this is why the judge really got upset. It was the definition of contempt. Not only did an executive lie about when they started, when they decided on 27%, but the judge said they manufactured. That's the word. She used an independent economic study to legitimize the decision. I mean, they really, they acted skeevy.

[Alex Lindsay]

Let's face it, the 80 something page decision is worth downloading and reading because. Because she absolutely tears Apple apart bit by bit by bit by bit.

[Leo Laporte]

And when I was on the very definition of contempt.

[Alex Lindsay]

I mean, I mean.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah. All right, we're gonna take a break. Come back. We. Now we're done with the court. Well, no, we're not. Darn it. We're almost. We could have been done with the court thing, except then Eddy Q. Gets up on the stand during the Google trial. The judge in the Google case. Google's already been declared a search monopoly. The judge is having hearings now to determine the remedy, which judge Mehta will do, I believe, on the 25th. Eddie Q. Gets up on the stand and says, well, your honor, and I don't. I know he doesn't talk about this, but it feels like he should. It turns out that we're seeing fewer and fewer Google searches on the iPhone all the time. To which the stock market responded with a 7% drop in Google's stock 120 billion.

[Alex Lindsay]

And yep, that was not. That was bad.

[Leo Laporte]

It was like, ah, yeah. Google said, no, no, no, no. We, we are seeing more searches every year, including from Apple devices. So I don't know who's telling the truth on this one. Eddie might. This might be a case of Eddie.

[Alex Lindsay]

Well, the numbers are on Google side. They're actually. Use of Google search has been up, I think last. They have numbers for 2020.

[Leo Laporte]

And he might have been grinding his own axe here.

[Alex Lindsay]

Well, no, no, we're not grinding his own. He was there for a real purpose, which is to keep that $20 billion that you coming. And the way to do that was to tell the judge that, hey, I mean Google, there's plenty of competition in search. We're seeing fewer usage of Google search.

[Leo Laporte]

Right.

[Alex Lindsay]

AI is killing. We might have to actually switch away from Google search.

[Leo Laporte]

That was the thing that really scared the market, I believe is that he said, you know, we could, we might thinking about doing an AI thing instead. I should point out that 20 billion is a big number because according to at least one analyst, Apple doesn't say how much they make on the App Store. But according to at least one analyst, Apple's commissions on the App Store last year were 10 billion. So of the services revenue, Google's payoff is twice as much as the App Store.

[Andy Ihnatko]

And when you think about it, Google thinks that that's a great deal.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah.

[Andy Ihnatko]

So you think about how much Google's making.

[Leo Laporte]

Google wants to keep. Google wants to keep doing it. The judges, among other remedies, the government has asked the judge to end those payments, which would kill Firefox. They've already said that it would hurt Apple.

[Alex Lindsay]

And on top of that, they particularly want to at least retain the ability to continue to reach those deals with Samsung and Apple and other makers they're already shifting towards. Let's make Gemini the default AI that's on the device they are really, really driving. Next week at Google I o, you're definitely going to hear a lot about AI powered search. During their last earnings call, that was pretty much they're trying to make sure the analysts understood that. We see that a lot of our users are drifting away towards AI powered search from OpenAI and other AI makers and we're trying to make sure that we keep those users where they are even though we don't know how to monetize it yet.

[Andy Ihnatko]

OpenAI is so good at it. I almost never Google search anymore. Like I, if I'm looking for something very specific on the web for a webpage, I will go look for it. But almost all of my informational searches now are just in ChatGPT. Like it's so much faster.

[Leo Laporte]

This is to the detriment though of every single website on the Internet. By the way, I do the same thing. I use perplexity, but it's the same thing because I'm using, you know, perplexity mushes together all the different AIs. But as a result I often don't go well, but I guess source.

[Andy Ihnatko]

But a lot of times what ChatGPT has gotten really good at is it gives me the answers and it's giving me the links to everything.

[Leo Laporte]

But do you click those links?

[Andy Ihnatko]

Yeah, I do.

[Leo Laporte]

Okay.

[Andy Ihnatko]

Yeah, because I go because I'm looking for something. I'm trying to figure something out and show me. You know, like most of the time I'm not asking it just for raw information I'm asking it for. I'm looking for this or I'm doing this and it. So it shows me that. And then it gives me. Here's a bunch of places that you can go look at it and you know, to research it more or to. Which has made it a lot more. I don't know. ChatGPT. It feels like if you want to check my work, here it is. Right. But it's also the links to where I can go find out more information about that.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, this is the. During this week in Tech on Sunday, we were discussing wombats versus marmots and I was just curious what the difference was. So I went to Perplexity and I did a search, got all the information I'd want. Now. Yeah, they have the sources, their footnotes and there's links to the sources. But I didn't need to because I got everything I want for that search.

[Andy Ihnatko]

You know, like.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, I mean, you're right. If you're searching for running shoes, you might end up going to a running shoe store. But I feel bad that. Let's see whatever this is, you know.

[Andy Ihnatko]

Like, like a recent search was. Mine was like, tell me the difference between a Tascam and a Yamaha pin out on a DB25. And it just goes here, this, this is.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, you never have to go to. So this one to see that.

[Jason Snell]

Right.

[Andy Ihnatko]

But then it goes. But then it goes. Here are the links to the manuals that show you what those things are, you know, like. And so that's because I'm not going to trust. I'm not going to start wiring, building cables based on ChatGPT. So now it's going to take me somewhere to go find those.

[Leo Laporte]

I think that you will see. And I think it's. We don't know, but I think it's probably the case that a lot of links are going away. Will you run a site? Six colors, I think, yeah.

[Jason Snell]

And then the reason Glenn is writing for me now is because Macworld saw this coming, that he was writing a help column and a lot of that. And this is the truth for a lot of the web. And this is what I was going to say is we've spent a decade plus of SEO search engine optimization on the web on text websites, optimizing for. Let's call it a level one question. Right? It's a simple answer to a simple question because back in the day you'd ask it in Google and when is the super bowl on? And every site has a When is the super bowl on page because they want to get to the top of Google. It's free traffic and they get some ad revenue from all the ads on that page. And so it's twisted the Internet because of all of that value in the level one search result. And I don't want to discount it because there are a lot of companies who built their whole brand and their whole business model on that. I don't believe things below level one are in as much peril, let's say as the level one stuff is the surface stuff for AI, the really simple stuff. Stuff where all the AI answer just gives it to you because all you were really saying is one's kickoff.

[Leo Laporte]

And that's what a help column does, right?

[Jason Snell]

And I mean in the, if you're right, if you're, if you're just trying to get a simple answer. What do I type here? But there is room, I believe for what Alex says, which is all of the supplemental material where you. I want to understand it. I want to know why, I want to know more. I don't know if the AI is telling me all the detail that I need. I think that it's not going to make all of that stuff obsolete, at least not right away. But I think that really easy stuff at the top level, that a lot of companies spend a lot of money putting a lot of garbage on the Internet, honestly in order to have it be optimized for search. That stuff is gone. And it is a huge, it blasts a hole in the side of the window.

[Leo Laporte]

All this really is though is the terminus of that ski slope. I mean if I wanted for a long time, I can never remember how to do a DFU on the iPhone. So I would do a Google search, get the Mac 911 column from Macworld and I would read that then YouTube, somebody on YouTube cleverly said I owned a little SEO. And then YouTube started having 10 second videos that you walked through with the DFU. Now I just do it a perplexity search. I don't even see the YouTube, let alone the Mac911. I get all the answers in the AI search and I think that, well, this went for a lot of content.

[Jason Snell]

For, for a simple answer for that, that like top level, low hanging fruit answer. I think absolutely. And like I said, I think that was a, it's a real hit to the web. But also I think that's a distortion. That content existed and that business model existed. It was already because of how Google worked. And so as a result am I, I am very Sympathetic to businesses that are struggling with this. At the same time, I'm not sure I'm super sympathetic because I don't think a lot of that content was any good. It was super simple, just designed to suck in money from Google. And that's the stuff that AI can replace the most.

[Leo Laporte]

And you've put your money where your mouth is because you hired. Because as soon as Mac World canceled Mac911, you hired Glenn. Yeah, because I think he's doing the help stuff for you.

[Jason Snell]

We're serving a more specific audience and they care about this stuff and they want to learn about it. And Glenn doesn't just talk. Like, we had a question. It was like, how does the Apple Watch know where I am? Like, when does it, Is it like a find my device or is it like finding a person and all of that? And he got. But he wrote like a thousand words and he said the answer's at the end if you want to go to the end. But the money for me is in the TLDR part. Or is it below the tldr? It's where he says find my is super complicated. It's like, are you a person? Are you a device? And it turns out like your Apple Watch, if it's with your phone, is different than if it's not. And if it's cellular is different than if it's WI fi. And like, it's a great piece. And our audience, I think, is full of people who do this for a living, either for their business or they do it because they support people and their family and their friends and they, and they want to know the answer. But that is a very different model for. I've never had the model with six colors of hoping for traffic to drive by with a quick Google search.

[Leo Laporte]

It's just my model Three freak an hour podcast.

[Jason Snell]

Exactly. It's the opposite of a drive by. That would be a very slow electric scooter drive by.

[Leo Laporte]

We figure you want the information, you want more. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Andy Ihnatko]

And, and when you look at like the, you know, when you start trying to game the system too far, you end up building a, you know, a place for, you know, for disruption, which is like, for instance, I, I, I cook a lot, so I have lots of recipes. And most recipes on the web are designed to deliver you ads like it is. I'll give you a little chunk of the recipe and then there's some three more ads and then I'll give you a little chunk of the recipe and there'll be four more ads and it's, and it's really hard to actually figure out what you're supposed to cook.

[Leo Laporte]

There's a reason also, there's a reason for that that's a little separate from this, which is that recipes can't be copyrighted. So if I write a recipe, I write the perfect Bolognese recipe. Every site on the Internet can republish it without paying me or any credit to me.

[Jason Snell]

But the extra blog post at the top is entirely for search engines.

[Leo Laporte]

No, no, but that's what they're taking advantage of is, you know, this content is fungible, so we're going to make money around it.

[Andy Ihnatko]

No, I understand, but what happens is, is that you, you're trying to turn a business, you're trying to turn that into a business model, but the problem is, is that it sets you up for a paprika, which just says, put the URL in. I'm going to put, take. I'm going to go grab the recipe.

[Leo Laporte]

Yep.

[Andy Ihnatko]

And I'm going to stick it all in there. And then I didn't realize, like, the vastness of Apple's recipe thing, so I thought, oh, they're giving me a recipe every once in a while and I hit a button and there's 70,000 recipes that are in there. You know, like, it's not like that have all been formatted and everything else. I was like, oh, my gosh, Apple did not do a little bit of recipes. They did all the recipes. So it's, it's a. But, that's, but, but. Because that was a very, I mean, you got to figure it out. But that was a very inefficient, you know, way to deliver stuff to users and they are always going to be looking for some other way when it's not efficient. So you always have to figure out how to, how to deliver that efficiently. That's all.

[Jason Snell]

I wanted to make a point about the, going back to the numbers because, you know, I love my charts and all of that, that when we talk about Apple and profits from services and stuff, I, I just wanted to throw out there 20 billion for search, 10 billion for app store. Right.

[Leo Laporte]

That's 30 total.

[Jason Snell]

Yeah, let's say, I mean, I'm going to. People could quibble this, but let's just say it's 100% profit because it's close.

[Leo Laporte]

Close to, it's close.

[Jason Snell]

I'm sure they, I, I'm, I'm sure they assigned some App Store overhead and things like that. But, but like, let's just say Google.

[Leo Laporte]

Check is pretty Much.

[Jason Snell]

I'll knock a few percentage points off which will take us down to you know, whatever 80, you know, 89 or whatever it is. 29.8 billion and then we round it back up to 30. Apple's total profit last year was about 90 billion.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah.

[Jason Snell]

So we are talking about a third of Apple profit in a fiscal year. And if you want to know why Luke Maestri was gesturing wildly, Tim Cook saying don't do, don't listen to Phil, don't listen to me guy.

[Leo Laporte]

Right.

[Jason Snell]

Because he's the, he was the cfo and why one of his guys lied on the stand. I think you could get the sense and I, I would say it's an unhealthy relationship with that essentially pennies from heaven. That free money that comes with no Pro100 profit margin because it's just coming out of the sky. I understand how you could you get used to it. I also would say that if, if it was, and nobody's saying it's going to go away, it would just be less. I'm sure Wall street would be unhappy. I'm sure that they would have some tough compares in their financials for a year. But Apple would still be an incredibly profitable company. However, I can see why the money people would be freaking out because you are talking about being a third less profitable.

[Andy Ihnatko]

Well, and also it is the, it is the money that you make if there's 145% tariff, like you know, it becomes a big chunk, it becomes half or 60 or 70% of your revenue if you had a year of a crazy tariff. Right. So an Apple, you know, the, the DNA of Apple is still damaged by the late 90s. Like you know, before the, right before Steve got there and they, you know, they were months away from closing and all the people running the show right now were there, there like, you know, they, they're still the first generation after, you know, this, this very stressful event. And so they're always worried about survival and they're always worried about every revenue stream and they're, they're definitely building up services because they're afraid that someday the game with the iPhone, you know, the iPhone is this crazy thing and it's built up this huge company but the, the dance could end or be stalled or anything else. You know. And so, and they're, you know, they're, you see them constantly working on it. They're moving, moving phones out of China. They're doing all these other things to make sure that that doesn't happen. I think that the other thing to look at is what Apple will do once they open this up. They have to find that revenue somewhere, the revenue, whatever they're going to lose with third party payments and whatever is going to happen. And there's a lot of things they can do that aren't necessarily great for developers either, which is for instance, expanding Arcade into productivity and all these other areas where they basically buy up a bunch of apps and put them into part of the membership. And what will happen is as soon as you have those as part of your Apple one subscription, how often are you going to go out and buy something else?

[Leo Laporte]

Right.

[Andy Ihnatko]

You know, and so it'll. They could theoretically, you know, because they have all the data, they know exactly who's, what things are selling well and what isn't. And they can start because they're going to, if they, if they start losing money, they're going to try to replace it with services somewhere. And the lowest hanging fruit is packaging more and more apps into the Apple one subscription, you know, and that's going to be the. I think that's most likely their reaction over the next three to five years.

[Alex Lindsay]

I just hope that overall every year one of my favorite questions that Six Colors asks in their usual like 30 person survey is relationship with developers. And that number of independent people, 30, 40 people that get polled that Jason knows the number, get asked this question every year and their numbers are quantified and nobody ever thinks, wow, Apple's really treating developers nicely this year. They seem to have isolated the roots of their dysfunction in their relationship with their developers and they're trying to address it. It's notes, it's been this flat line of you are so lucky to be in a relationship with us. We are so lucky that we will continue to drag your sorry butt giving you all these lovely services and lovely APIs and this store, this gorgeous store. We really think that you should. Why have you ever thanked us? I think that there should be like an improvement, a real come to Jesus moment of you know what, there's a level of abuse that is maybe unnecessary, that maybe it might have been necessary 10 years ago, maybe less necessary now. And perhaps we should reevaluate how we treat our developers because they are also our customers and we tell people that we treat our customers really well.

[Andy Ihnatko]

I think that when they actually hit all of the developers or many of the developers, it looks like about 70, 70% are happy with what they get from the store, 30% are unhappy. If the Republicans got 70% or the Democrats got 70% of the vote. They wouldn't even listen to the other side. They would, like, I can't hear you over the cheers.

[Alex Lindsay]

You know, like, you know, well, that's, that's, that's faulty. That's faulty arguments. If there are 12 people who are living in the streets, that doesn't mean that that's insignificant. That means that they have a good reason to complain that they can't afford housing in this community.

[Andy Ihnatko]

I just think it's complicated. It's, you know, I know.

[Alex Lindsay]

I'm not saying it's not complicated, but I'm saying that I do believe the is thing. There are complaints that developers have consistently made that seem like they're solvable problems. And Apple is like, we don't see an upside to us for solving that problem. And so, yeah, just imagine if there was a complicated system for unlocking a phone. And it's like, why is this three steps? It should be just, I press my finger here and it unlocks. Why do I have to press my finger and then slide something across? And Apple just decide, hey, we don't care. It's like, that's the thing that annoys me about it.

[Leo Laporte]

Glenn Fleischman back at Six Colors and it's. And if you read his Tell Me all youl Troubles piece, you'll see why you don't want to just do an AI search and get the answers. Ahoy, Hexachromes. Did he invent that, by the way?

[Jason Snell]

He did. I didn't even know what he was talking about. But he means six colors, right? Doesn't he?

[Leo Laporte]

That's very Glenn.

[Jason Snell]

Yeah. And in his first, like I said, his first answer. I love it. I actually put a link that says, you know, because he wrote it, he said, look, the answer is at the end. If all you want to read is the answer. And I'll put a link to it. So it's just scroll down and put an anchor down there and there's a big subhead that says the answer. But, like the entertainment, I think. And the education is in that middle part.

[Leo Laporte]

Absolutely. And to know that he does it on a typewriter just makes it even better. We're gonna take a break.

[Alex Lindsay]

You would not make a 6 college deadline without it.

[Leo Laporte]

I remember listening to my friend Will Hurst, who was at the time publisher of the San Francisco examiner, exhorting his kind of. Who was the guy who wrote Feeling Loathing? Hunter S. Thompson. Hunter S. Thompson, who was writing a column for the examiner at the time, just pleading and begging, hunter, please, we gotta print the freaking paper. Finish Your gosh darn column. You might imagine how hard it was to get a column out of Hunter S. Thompson. I don't think Glenn has the same.

[Alex Lindsay]

That's item one in the terms of service for Hunter S. Thompson. I think you clicked who you should have read Edit before clicking Please.

[Leo Laporte]

Hunter, we gotta go to bed.

[Jason Snell]

I edited several Editor in Chief columns over the years at Macworld and Mac User and I've seen every story. I also edited Andy's column for a while. Sorry Andy. Shots Fired. Like I've seen it all. So you know Hunter S. Thompson. Shaw.

[Leo Laporte]

I've been on the other end of that phone call a few times myself. Thank you for listening to the show. We're so glad you do. Thanks especially to our Club Twit members who make this this show possible. You know who you are if you're not yet a member of Club TWIT. TWIT TV Club TWIT. $7 a month. That price probably will go up because you know tariffs. So if you join today, you'll be you'll be grandfathered in at the at the low, low price of $7 a month, $84 a year ad. Free versions of all the shows, access to the Club Twit Discord special events including by the way, Micah's Crafting Corner, which is tomorrow at 6pm Friday we're going to do Stacy's Book Club, that great Ursula K. Le Guin novella the Word for World is Forest. And WWDC is going to be in the club only. This is our new policy. Next Tuesday, Mac Break Weekly might be a little bit delayed because we're going to be streaming the Google I O keynote and Google says it's going to be two hours starts at 10am so Mac break Weekly will start probably at noon next week. And if you get here and you're not a club member and you'll say what's going on? But if you're a club member, go right into the discord because you will watch us talking about Google's announcements. Lots of AI announcements build is the day before next Monday. All of these keynotes now are club only. And that's not because we want to extort the money out of you, but frankly because Apple has now tried very hard to to get us off YouTube and Twitch when we restream their keynotes. And we just can't afford to be banned from either of those platforms. So instead of streaming as we have in the past on all those streaming platforms, as we do today on this show, on all those streaming Platforms. The keynotes from now on will be in the discord. Join the club. You can watch Twit TV Club Twit. You also don't have to watch live because there's a Twit plus feed with all the Twit plus club content that you can listen to at any time. Our show today, brought to you by StoryBlock. Hello StoryBlock. You know the pain talking about being an editor at a magazine or of a website of legacy cmss. It's always the thing that makes or breaks. You know, for a writer, you can always blame the cms. You could say, well I wrote it and I put it in the CMS and it lost it. It. These legacy CMSs promise enterprise grade features, but what do you get? I know you get slow, clunky systems that need developer support for even the smallest update when you're trying to move fast. That's a nightmare. Well, let me tell you, you need to know about Storyblok. Talk about a great content management system. Unlike those monolithic CMSs, Storyblok is headless, okay? Completely decouples your backend from your front end. 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Another major brand empowered marketing to launch campaigns independently, freeing up the developers for bigger projects. They got that beautiful CMS, they could do exactly what they want. StoryBlock has an API first approach so your content loads fast anywhere in the world. That means better ux, that means higher engagement, improved SEO. And with their real time visual editor, marketers are going to see exactly what their content will look like before publishing. No more going back and forth with minor tweaks and all of that. Developers you get fewer interruptions, marketers, you get more autonomy. It's a win win. If you're an agency, you'll like this. StoryBlock offers multi client workspaces, flexible permissions, and seamless collaboration tools. You can manage multiple products without disrupting development workflows. So whether you're a startup, an enterprise, or an agency juggling multiple clients, StoryBlock gives you the power and flexibility you need. Try it out today. Storyblock.com twittv25 oh, and use the code twit25. Twittlisteners will get 20% off for the first three months on Growth and Growth plus plans. So again, that's storyblock.com twittv-25 the offer code twit25 gets you 20% off the first three months on Growth and growth plus plans. S t o r y b l o k.com twit tv25 I said that slowly so you can write that down. You're going to want to use it. And don't forget the offer code TWIT25 for 20% off the first three months of the growth or growth plus plans. Thank you, StoryBlock for supporting the show and making this all possible. We appreciate it. And again, you support us when you use that URL and that code. So please do that. Storyblock.com Twitter and the offer code twit25 all righty, let's see. Back to the shows. No more court stuff. Promise. We're done. What else is going on? There's actually a lot of stories and we're gonna have to. Might have to hustle through these Netflix because Apple is, you know, opening up the App Store. Somebody said Netflix. Are you gonna take advantage of that? No plans to bring back App Store subscriptions. They're also adding AI to their interface. What could possibly go wrong? Netflix, Remember Netflix had a big. I can't remember what the prize was. It was a big prize for somebody that would come up with a better recommendation engine for Netflix and nobody won because it's apparently so hard to do a good day.

[Alex Lindsay]

That's the best recommendation engine for Netflix.

[Leo Laporte]

Dave said, you know, that's true. I end up watching a lot of stuff hardcore.

[Alex Lindsay]

Henry. Really? Yeah, dude, I promise you. Okay. Doesn't look like, oh, my God, this is awesome.

[Leo Laporte]

Netflix. Okay, so this is a confusing headline. Netflix getting user interface with a. Has no plans to bring back App Store subscriptions. But I think what this. That's miswritten for this Apple Insider. I think what they're saying is they're not going to follow suit with companies like Spotify and Amazon. Netflix says we're monitoring the situation very closely, but we don't have anything more to share at this time. We're just continue to abide by the App Store policies until we hear more about how to best implement any changes going forward. So I think that was unclear when I read the headline.

[Alex Lindsay]

Everybody, everybody has to know. Everybody has to know that Apple's gonna appeal. Apple did file their firm and they're asking for a response by the end of May. So maybe we won't see someone also want to jump in till June.

[Andy Ihnatko]

Netflix is already doing third party third part. I mean like you have to subscribe out so there's no, there's no.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, I see. That's why the headline. We're not going to add a button in the app to go buy. I get it. Okay.

[Andy Ihnatko]

I mean they're already telling you you.

[Leo Laporte]

Can'T buy it somewhere else.

[Jason Snell]

I mean Netflix just gave them a, you know, non answer saying no plans. That headline is cash and checks. That or what Writing checks I can't cash.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, I fell for it. I fell for the link bank.

[Jason Snell]

They basically have no comment. And ye, I think what they would have to do is they'd have to put, I don't know if they're like Amazon, they could probably just put a link in directly to the signup page. It can't be that hard in the US only. Yeah, yeah.

[Andy Ihnatko]

And the thing is that there's no again because they already have third party. There's not really any major upside for them. The downside is that you can be guaranteed that you're not going to make friends with Apple if you do. Amazon's big enough and other people are big enough. They don't care. But for a lot of people that want to have relationships with Apple, as soon as you do a third party, you're basically recommendations on the keynote. All those things go away. So, so you know, like that's all going to just evaporate, you know and so, so Netflix somehow I managed to.

[Leo Laporte]

Get this conversation again. I didn't want.

[Andy Ihnatko]

No, no, no. All I'm saying is that Netflix just. Netflix has no upside and, and you know, because they make it easier for.

[Jason Snell]

The users and they're big enough that it doesn't matter what Apple's doing.

[Leo Laporte]

And Jason.

[Jason Snell]

Yeah, I mean, I mean I would say that Alex describes a very interesting case that'll lot of attorneys would be interested in about retaliation against legal processes.

[Alex Lindsay]

If we're saying that Apple is There are a lot of people in operation in 2025 that we say we're going to do whatever they want us to do. We're not going to. We don't want to upset them for any reason. Even though. Because they are stubborn and impertinent and dangerous and vengeful and vindictive. If you podcast and we and you.

[Leo Laporte]

Streamed Steve Jobs introducing the iPad for instance, and then they never invited you to never be. That would be illegal, wouldn't it?

[Jason Snell]

No, no, you have no right to be there.

[Leo Laporte]

Okay, Nevermind.

[Jason Snell]

I try.

[Leo Laporte]

27 years ago, Steve Jobs took the stage at the Flint center to unveil the imac.

[Jason Snell]

It's true original.

[Leo Laporte]

This is when he came back, right? This is when after Glenn Fleischman said I'll never buy another Mac.

[Jason Snell]

Yes, Steve came back. They did a crash program and the next year they came out with the G3IMAC which they, you know, again they assembled sort of out of some existing projects at Apple. And Jony, I've did a new design for it and all of that and like it is. So I wrote this piece because it was an anniversary and Macworld really loves it when I read about anniversary. So I did it. But like the point is people don't realize how revolutionary the imac was in so many ways and how it represented such a break from the past. I feel like this is one of those things that's in Apple's DNA that we don't appreciate enough. People complain about Apple making things, you know, breaking compatibility with old stuff. But like this was a huge moment where they basically had this whole checklist of things that were in computers. And keep in mind this was the era of the beige PC with a big cable going to a big beige crt. And they made, yes, it was big, but they made an all in one and they said like doesn't have a floppy drive, Everything had a floppy drive. Doesn't have serial or parallel, doesn't have ADB or scsi which were the. All the ports that you had on old Macs just gone. Just gone. I mean people were complaining when you went to USB C in in the 2010s on the laptops and like that was big, but it was just a port change with a very simple adapter. But they were like no, they're all gone. Everything is gone except for a brand new specification USB which is of course still with us even to this day. So like it was a huge moment and I think people don't give it enough credit and I think that you Know if you, if you look at it the all in one computer for the rest of us, like Steve Jobs wasn't wrong about that. It just I think went in a place that maybe he didn't anticipate which is the laptop, which is a take it anywhere all in one for the rest of us. But you know, the imac still has a place. But the imac was a vitally important part of Apple's comeback and it really did have a huge impact on computers and it made the USB a safe place to be. It made George Foreman grills have a translucent blue model. It just had a huge amount of impact. And to this day like the imac colors today are, they exist because of those colorful imacs of the 90s.

[Leo Laporte]

They changed how we think about computers. Yeah. Fast forward 27 years later. Mark Gurman says Apple is kind of stagnating that their product launch this year, launches in 2026 will be kind of dull. But don't worry because Apple says Gurman in his latest Power on newsletter for Bloomberg is planning a monumental year for new devices in 2027.

[Andy Ihnatko]

2027. Well the thing is that I mean these are all incrementally moving forward too. I mean the thing is, is, is that I, I mean I have to, I have to admit I feel like the M4Mac, I, as someone who is testing the M4Mac minis for a variety of reasons it's pretty wow. Like it is, it is the most amazing, it's not the most powerful but it is the most amazing little, most amazing desktop computer ever created. Like it, it is, I mean what I can do with that, I keep on like doing pretty hard stuff like ah, I'd like to stream 120 frames per second, you know out of the HDMI and it's like yeah, I, I think, I'm not sure if I'm still on yet. You know like it's like 8%, 8% CPU to just punch out a bunch of video out of it and, and it's, and then you know my son is like working in resolve doing a 2 and a half minute, 2 and a half hour edit on it and.

[Leo Laporte]

It is just, just so interestingly this Mini isn't an imac, you know, it's not an all in one. You have to still have a monitor, keyboard, mouse.

[Andy Ihnatko]

I think the minis killed are killing the imac because they're so good.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah.

[Andy Ihnatko]

And they're so inexpensive and the fundamentally like I, I have a, I have a monitor that's 4K. I don't have a 5K or 6K monitor. I don't really, you know, my, I don't think my vision's good enough for that. And, and almost all my monitors that I work at, they're at a slight distance. And so they're all 1080p. They all cost about $100, you know, and, and I don't want to pay for an imac. I don't want to mount the imac. I got a bunch of little Mac minis here that are all attached to different things and as glue. The Mac minis solve so many more problems and when they break, they're so much less expensive. And the monitors can, the monitors can be mounted any way I want. I can put them in lots of different places. It's just, it's a much better, in my opinion. I mean again, the imac I think had its moment when we buy something for our, when we buy something for my parents in law, when we, we update their imac every couple of years and, and we just buy them an imac because I don't want, you know, like that's easy for them to turn on. You know, they still need a computer. IPad's not enough. They're doing enough with it. But I don't want to have to figure out how to play.

[Leo Laporte]

I think of it as the dentist office.

[Jason Snell]

Yeah. I spent some time a few years ago talking to an im imac product manager. And it's very clear first off that again, it's Apple scale. The imac makes a lot of money for Apple to this day, but it is a niche computer in a lot of ways that it wasn't in certainly in 1997. But like laptops are again, three quarters of the max out there. And Alex, you know, properly extols the virtues of the mini and I would even say the studio qualifies as that. But the imac, you know, it's a shared computer, whether it's in a home or it's in a school or it's at a library or it's at a desk in a hotel. And I know these are all like weird cases, but like nobody knows where these things are being used better than Apple and Apple knows that they're being used in those places. And so I think that's one of the reason, the reasons the colors really work is because they are kind of environmental objects. Right. You put your laptop wherever and then put it in a bag and take it someplace. But the imac sort of lives where it lives. And so you're like oh well in this hotel lobby we'll get the green one or whatever and then it sits there or at this reception desk in an office. And so it's got very specific purposes. But yeah, but the truth is it is a, when it came it was like the computer for the rest of us and now it is a very, very niche within a niche almost because it's a desktop computer and, and it's an all in one and so it's, it's got limited appeal but you know that's still a pretty good business for Apple even so. But yeah, I mean I don't, I had an imac for quite a while. There's one behind me but I, you know, I don't now I've got a.

[Andy Ihnatko]

Couple little behind me but, and, but I like I was talking to a school about their multimedia program and they have all these iMacs from 2017, you know, because it's expensive to upgrade them all. And I was like, you should just get Mac Minis, just get a bunch of Mac Minis and put a bunch of monitors out there. It's going to be a lot. You know, you'll be able to upgrade them more often and they're going to be, you know, these little M4s again are just massive.

[Leo Laporte]

What do you think of Mark Gurman's contention that Apple has kind of is kind of coasting? He says the lack of groundbreaking change has taken a toll. Sales of the iPhone have tapered and are lower than they were were two years ago. The Apple Watch suffered a 14% revenue drop last year according to an analyst estimate. Overall revenue is only slowly picking up again after a stagnant stretch. Is all of that.

[Andy Ihnatko]

All I can say as a user is I really wish Apple would actually go slower and make everything work, you know, like so my biggest complaint about Apple is not all the behaviors we talked about earlier. My biggest complaint about Apple is they keep on adding features and not actually getting them to all work perfectly together. And that was something that I always depended on Apple for and something that I depend on Apple less and less for is they keep on adding all these things. AI is one example. But there's many, many solutions that are just quirky and weird and they just need time to settle in. I would love for Apple to release just, just keep updating the products that they have for the next two years until 2027 or whatever and just make them all like just, just work on the glue that goes between them and make them all work better that way I'd Be a happy camper.

[Leo Laporte]

20 is probably an important year because it will be the 20th anniversary of the iPhone. So Apple may indeed, you know, want to take advantage of that. That's the rumor. It's funny, different people say different timeframes for the folding phone. I've heard both 2026 and Gurman's Holden steady at 2027.

[Alex Lindsay]

I think those of us outside Apple are more fascinated with these big anniversaries than people inside Apple are. I mean if it just so happens that they've got, got, they have a major release that was planned for about then, then sure. And when they write, they write the market material, they will say we, they'll, they'll, they'll mention it. But it's not as though, remember that the Apple did once do a Mac release specifically for the anniversary of the launch of the original Mac and it didn't go that great. It wasn't a computer that anybody really wanted.

[Jason Snell]

It was, it was for the launch of the company, not the original Mac and they missed the date by a year. But yeah, I mean it was a disaster on another whole scale. Leo, to answer your question, I think this is narrative making by Mark Gurman who is very good at reporting, but Bloomberg seems to really want him to tell little stories about Apple and build a narrative around it. And I think that this is a more of weekly sourced narrative. Like his iPhone thing. It's like iPhone sales are flat. It's true, they are flat. They're not down really. Not not, I think appreciably. They're basically flat. That and what he seems to be saying ultimately is I'm bored. Do something new. And like I get what he's saying, I get it. But again, $90 billion in profits every year, but yeah, I'm bored. Do something new. I would say that. What. And he has to, he has to like poo poo. The things that like Vision Pro, he's like, well granted Vision Pro is a new and interesting product, but it hasn't exactly flown off the shelves. It's like, well it was never going to fly off the shelves at that price. It was never going to do that. I do think it's true, true that Apple put a lot of effort into Vision Pro and into the car.

[Alex Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Jason Snell]

And got nothing from it. And that what we're seeing now is the echo of that where they did some stuff that didn't even reach the waterline and they've got one thing that reached the waterline but didn't make any ripples and it, that Makes it a lot harder for them to also do all these other things also. I think though, I think some of this is natural. I think, think the folding screen thing is a place Apple wants to go and has just not been satisfied with it because all of the other folding phones that are out there are kind of like eh, they're okay, they're interesting from a tech perspective. But I could see somebody at Apple being like not with this, you know, fold, not with this ridge in the middle of the display. We're not going to do it. So I think it, I think he's not, I think he's making something out of not nothing but out of just a little bit. It. I don't think that this is a case where I think, I think it's literally you're looking at the ebb and flow and the troughs and the, and then, and then the waves and trying to build a narrative around it to say Apple is low right now and in two years they're going to be high again. When the fact is, I think, I think making a big narrative over it is probably a mistake.

[Leo Laporte]

A Korean leaker quoted by 9to5Mac. Yeah, 1122 says that Apple is getting a better standard display for the iPhone fold than the one that Samsung is putting in the Galaxy Fold. Samsung will sell the display to Apple but it's going to be a newer version.

[Andy Ihnatko]

I have to admit I buy a lot of Apple products. I have negative interest in a folding phone. Like it's like I just know, like I don't know anybody who's owned, who's bought a second folding phone. And, and for me the, just the whole workflow of it doesn't make any sense.

[Alex Lindsay]

I do too.

[Andy Ihnatko]

Yeah, I just, it's, I just bought.

[Leo Laporte]

So you do know somebody.

[Andy Ihnatko]

No, I think it's for the people who bought.

[Leo Laporte]

But I agree with. I don't use.

[Andy Ihnatko]

No, no, you. I said I don't know anybody. I don't know two people. I don't know people who have bought two in a row like that, you know, like that, that you have. Okay.

[Alex Lindsay]

The thing is like they're going to be, they're going to be people. There are people who are fans of folding phones, there are people who are not fans of folding phones because they are clunky and early tech and because of that ditch, this report from the supply chain says that not only have they gotten rid of the ditch by working directly with Samsung, but they've also made this potentially the thinnest foldable foam that you've ever seen. But the great thing that I think that would attract Apple to this is that they love good margins. They love good margins.

[Leo Laporte]

Well, and they have a problem. They don't want to say the tariffs are killing the. You know, they don't want to raise the prices because of tariffs because that will annoy, you know who. Voldemort.

[Alex Lindsay]

Wall Street Journal had a good article on that where they're basically saying that Apple is face. And according to a source inside Apple, this Wall Street Journal exclusive, they're saying that they know that they are. There is a very real reality in which they will have to raise prices, but they do not want to call them a tariff raise. So they're preparing a narrative that we've got a new phone and these new great, expensive features and these new great, expensive styling and basically pin it on. Wow. We're bringing so much new technology here that, well, of course we had to raise it by what happens to be. What percentage are we paying attention by? That much? Yeah.

[Leo Laporte]

And then Kerman's talking about glasses and, you know, a bunch of glasses.

[Alex Lindsay]

Yeah. It's like, I understand. I agree 100% with Jason. And the other thing that was missing from that was, okay, like, such. Such as what? Like, what is it that they are not building that they should be building? I think that the one answer that comes to mind is they missed the boat on wearable, like on Meta, Ray Bans, Meta raid bands, something as simple as that. But other than they put a lot of time and effort and ingenuity and money into the car, that didn't work out. They put a lot of money, time and ingenuity into the fancy elf goggles that are great for what they are, but not really a mass market success?

[Leo Laporte]

Well, you know what Meta's gonna do? Meta has a nuclear option. If Apple does do glasses, Apple will never. There's a feature Apple will never build in their glasses, is a feature I would love, but privacy advocates would scream about, which is face recognition. And according to the information Meta is. And they don't care. Right. They don't mind. They know they can get away with it. They're gonna put face recognition in the next generation Ray bans.

[Jason Snell]

Apple will do it too. I mean, I think if they believe that it's useful, they'll absolutely do it. They will absolutely do it because Google.

[Leo Laporte]

Had that capability and didn't.

[Jason Snell]

What, what are we. I mean, have we not learned in the last few months that Apple will do anything that feels that is necessary to survive, including incorporating third party LLMs in their operating system if they need to, and maybe lying in front of a judge.

[Andy Ihnatko]

I think, I think that, I think that what's interesting is that if they, Apple could do it where they look at your photo library, the people you've already identified, they're telling you who they are, like who's in front of you, that is related to that, giving you information. But it all stays inside of the Apple, your personal echo Apple ecosystem or meta. It will share it with Meta and.

[Jason Snell]

Then it will search all search engines and all databases everywhere and find everything about that person. And although even there, if that became an existential crisis for Apple for that product to be accepted, I think they would do it, I think they would dress it up with some privacy restrictions and things and say it's only going to search the public web and only when you authorize it and whatever. But I agree with Alex that the way it would start would be it's identifying people in your photo library who you've already met and you've already tagged. But I think they will do whatever is necessary to make it a good, a good product. And you know, there are, I don't think that there are sacred cows in that way. I think Apple will implement features it thinks it needs to implement and try to do it in a way that is safe and private. But I don't think there's a lot. I get the sense that they won't be willing to try if it's going to make the, or break a product.

[Leo Laporte]

And the information's contention is that privacy worries are fading across Silicon Valley with the new administration. With less aggressive regulators in Washington, they write meta platforms. Google and other Silicon Valley companies feel emboldened to reconsider user privacy strategies.

[Jason Snell]

I think it already was fading. I think the reaction, remember if you compare the reaction to Google Glass. Yeah, Modern.

[Leo Laporte]

So negative.

[Jason Snell]

The modern Snapchat and Meta glasses with cameras. Like, I, I just, I feel like everybody just kind of, there was a moment and that the moment asked and then people, people. Because the fact is, I was thinking about this the other day. The fact is everybody's got a camera everywhere. And, and I, I, I know that holding up a phone and taking pictures of things and people is an invasion of privacy on one level. But at the same time, I, I'm not, I'm not saying that there's a panopticon of every, you know, camera connected to make a single panopticon, but like when you're out in public, you, you have to assume that you are being Photographed or videoed, that's just where we are. Everybody has multiple lenses in their pocket.

[Leo Laporte]

Including your city government, but not just.

[Jason Snell]

That, but also literally everyone else everywhere. And so, you know, I don't know, I feel like culturally, if you're in your 20s or 30s, I think you just got to assume that every moment is being photographed and you're used to.

[Leo Laporte]

It, you're accepting it. I think Google's concern about face recognition is that guys would use it to stalk women. And you know, that's a very legitimate concern. The information story, which is quite interesting, says that meta, which used to have a whole review process for high risk features, is now automating its risk reviews through a process it calls and this should scare everybody. Self certification product teams confirm by themselves they have met requirements for addressing and reducing risk, according to the post. So we're back to move fast and break things with methods.

[Alex Lindsay]

It's always been their philosophy. It's interesting, with a device like wearable cameras, I would absolutely trust Apple. I would acquiesce to Google. There's no way in hell I would buy a pair. I would love a device exactly like the meta ray bans, but the connection to Facebook is a 100% deal breaker.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah.

[Andy Ihnatko]

And I think that part of it is also that the meta ray bans, you don't notice. I was at a lunch with somebody and it took me halfway through lunch, I suddenly realized they wearing camera. There's like two cameras now. I guess there's. I don't know how that works, but they have a light that turns on when there's a red light when you're recording. But you don't know that. Yeah, right. What the.

[Leo Laporte]

So they're not hiding the cameras. It's just you have to look specifically at the corners.

[Andy Ihnatko]

But again you. I didn't notice it until I was.

[Leo Laporte]

You just don't notice it.

[Andy Ihnatko]

You just don't notice it until you're, you know, immediately like with.

[Leo Laporte]

You're gonna have to get of examining everybody's glasses a little more closely. You know, just pay a little more attention to that. Let's see what else. I'm just looking. Pope Leo wears an Apple watch. Is that a big story?

[Alex Lindsay]

It's interesting.

[Leo Laporte]

He's the first pope.

[Alex Lindsay]

First pope to wear an Apple watch. First pope with a Twitter history that we could worry about. A bunch of gaming sites were talking about. Oh well, he's a gamer. He was playing wordle and Words with friends. Friends with his brother, like while he was waiting for the vote.

[Leo Laporte]

He's My age. So, you know, that doesn't mean Francis was definitely not very technical. We know that because Father Robert helped him with setting up things like Zoom. But it's very clear that the new pope, Pope Leo, is quite technical. There's his Apple watch peeking out.

[Alex Lindsay]

One of his first statements was about, AI is the new industrial revolution, not as a good thing, but as a potential for abusing and putting down people who are already disenfranchised and impoverished in our country, in the world. And we have to be very, very.

[Jason Snell]

Much alert about that and contrary potentially to human dignity, depending on how it's applied, which is really interesting.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah. Well, welcome to the United States, Pope Leo, because already the is sneaking a little addendum into the budget, which means it'll probably get through saying states cannot make a law against AI for the next 10 years. So we are in a move fast and break things AI situation.

[Jason Snell]

I don't know if you mentioned it, but also we found out that he's a Chicago White Sox fan.

[Leo Laporte]

He's a White Sox east side.

[Jason Snell]

Yeah. South side. Southside. Yeah. And he's from the southern suburbs.

[Leo Laporte]

His brother said he would never be a Cubs fan.

[Jason Snell]

And actually they found frames of him on the Fox broadcast of the 2005 World Series, which is amazing. So, I mean, it is, it is. It's not that. I mean, Pope Francis was a huge fan of a particular Argentinian soccer team.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, he was a soccer fan.

[Jason Snell]

It's not unreasonable for this sort of thing to happen, but for it to be an American Pope and an American.

[Leo Laporte]

Society and so was Jude Law when he was Pope. He was a big circle.

[Alex Lindsay]

Sure.

[Jason Snell]

When he was the young pope. Yeah, exactly. What about Stanley Tucci and conclave? But spoilers for conclave, he didn't quite get it. Anyway, it is, but Apple Watch, I mean, that's. Isn't that funny? Look, live long enough, you see a Pope wearing an Apple watch. What are you gonna do?

[Leo Laporte]

What are you gonna do? Don't delete the email you get about from Lopez voice assistant. I did not get the email. I immediately searched it. But there is a $95 million settlement. Lopez vs Apple computer 2019 class action that says Apple violated user privacy by recording their conversations and forwarding them to third party contractors. You remember that? Apple apologized and turned it off. But they did agree to a $95 million settlement. So if you get email from info, I would delete this immediately. Infoopezvoiceassistancesettlement.com that's not fake. Now, you had a I think you had a plot earlier to get the settlement. But anybody who owns a Siri enabled device between September 17 and 2014 and September 31, 2024 and has experienced Siri activating, seemingly it's on its own. Well, duh. Oh, you can still go and get up to $100 or $20 per device. Go to the settlement website which probably has some horrible name like Apple Lopez Apple versus Lopez settlement dot com.

[Alex Lindsay]

I mean, free burrito, man, it's like it's not a lot of money. But think about the free burrito.

[Leo Laporte]

100 bucks. You could buy a few burritos isn't.

[Alex Lindsay]

Like maximum of 100 bucks.

[Leo Laporte]

And it's like, yeah, it's 20 per device, up to five devices. So yeah, so you still have till July to apply. I think anybody that's 10 years, anybody who had any Siri devices eligible.

[Alex Lindsay]

And also like I don't know about if you have the same thought, Jason, like how many times did I register a brand new Apple loaner device and then like I sent it back after six months. But does that mean that I can get like, is it ethical for me to try to collect 100 bucks for all those phones I registered?

[Leo Laporte]

I want to stay in the settlement.

[Alex Lindsay]

$100.

[Leo Laporte]

You'd buy mini birds if you receive an email. So look for an email or a postcard notifying you that you may be a member.

[Jason Snell]

Yeah, it was in my Gmail spam. So people should definitely check that out.

[Leo Laporte]

Okay, so that's the only way to get payment. You have to find that email and then do whatever it says in the email. Okay, that's good to know. Hey, I just made you 100 bucks.

[Jason Snell]

Thanks Leo.

[Andy Ihnatko]

What's the title of the. What's the title of the email?

[Jason Snell]

Lopez Voice Assistant Class action Settlement. By the way, if you, if you are not a twit member and Leo just saved you 100 bucks, you gotta become a join. You owe us.

[Leo Laporte]

Join the club.

[Jason Snell]

100 bucks.

[Leo Laporte]

Bucks. Yeah.

[Jason Snell]

Or a membership.

[Leo Laporte]

A year and a half right there. Boom. Like that. Okay. Oh, wait a minute. It says if you do. Oh. Anthony had found a link @lopez voice assistanceettlement.com if you did not receive a personalized notice in the mail of via email, click new claim below to complete a claim form so you can do it on the website. I just missed it. So there's no excuse for you not to. Not to do that. Get that money. Where do you see that? I don't. Okay, put a link in the show notes for everybody so you can all get your hundred dollars some. Should we talk about the C1 modem? They're by the way there. I did mention 18.5 is out. There are. What was it, 30 different security fixes. So even if you don't care about new emojis or anything, you might want to get 18.5 installed. There are not a lot of new features as we talked about before.

[Alex Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Leo Laporte]

But good to do. All right. I think we were going to take a break here here and we shall get to our picks of the week. I think unless you have any other stories that we should do that I've missed. China will open it. Oh I did okay. I didn't do this. I should probably do this there. There is a little conversation between Tim Cook and and the president we should talk about. We'll get to that in just a moment. But first a word from our sponsor. This show at MacBreak Week, brought to you quite literally by Cash Fly. How many times have you heard me say that? Bandwidth for MacBreak Weekly is provided by Cash Fly at C A C-H-E-F-L-Y.com Twitch for over 20 years CashFly has held the track record for high performing ultra reliable content Delivery serving over 5,000 companies in over 80 countries. We've been using Cashfly here for a decade. We love their lag free actually more than a decade, almost 20 years now. They're lag flee video loading. They're hyper fast downloads, those friction free site interactions. Cachefly is the only CDN built for throughput. They deliver ultra low latency video streaming. Oh get this, over a million concurrent users for less than 1 second latency. With less than 1 second latency. If gaming company. Oh you'll love their lightning fast gaming. It delivers downloads faster with zero lag, lags, glitches or outages. And if you've got images anywhere on your site or in your content, you'll love mobile content optimization. CacheFlight is automatic and simple image optimization so your site can load faster on any size screen. Now the thing we really liked about cacheflight because we were new at this, we didn't know, you know, what our bandwidth needs were going to look like from day to day. So they'll give you flexible month to month billing as long as you need it. Once you know what your bandwidth needs are, you can get discounts for fixed terms. The point is you design your own contract when you switch to Cashfly. Cashfly delivers rich media content up to 158% faster than other major CDNs and allows you to shield your site content in the cloud, ensuring 100% cash hit ratio. With Cashfly's elite managed packages, you get the VIP treatment. Your dedicated account manager will be with you from day one, ensuring a smooth implementation and reliable 24. 7 Support when you need it. We love that. By the way, the new Cashfly storage technology is mind blowing. We've moved over to that. It's fast, it's flexible, they just get better all the time. This is not a company that sits on their laurels. Learn how you can get your first month [e-mail] TWIT Again, that's C-A C-H-E F L Y dot com. Thank you, Cash Fly. We really appreciate it. So I didn't even mention it. I guess we're getting so used to this whole red light, green light thing with tariffs. Over the weekend, the Chinese tariffs were reduced from 145% to 30%. And this is a classic bait and switch. Cause actual 30% still really high, but it's a lot less than 45%. China did the same in return. President Trump says the new trade deal is a total reset with China. And he spoke to Tim Apple about the whole thing. And Tim Apple was very excited.

[Alex Lindsay]

He's pretty sure that he's gonna up that 500 billion to.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, yeah. More factories in the. Let me see if I can find that quote because it was pretty funny. More factories in the US Apple had already committed to half a trillion in build outs, which is what they were gonna do anyway. Yeah, they were gonna do it anyway, but maybe they're gonna even do more. Tim says. I mean, President Trump says Apple's gonna up its numbers. From cnbc. I spoke to Tim Cook this morning. He's gonna, I think even up his numbers. 500 billion. He's gonna be building a lot of plants in the United States for Apple. We look forward to that.

[Jason Snell]

Mm.

[Leo Laporte]

Wow. They are building a lot of plants. I don't know how many of them in the United States, but they're definitely not in China.

[Jason Snell]

Well, to get carbon neutral, you gotta plant a lot of plants. So maybe that's.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, that kind of plants.

[Jason Snell]

Talk about plants.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, that kind of plants.

[Alex Lindsay]

You gotta take away a lot of grazing land from a lot of people in Brazil in order to meet those goals.

[Leo Laporte]

Earlier this month, Cook told investors about the company's tariff strategy on an earnings call. According to cnbc, he said Apple's currently sourcing American bound products from production locations in Vietnam and India, but did not want to speculate Beyond June, calling the situation difficult to predict. Yes, that's a good description of it. There is a 90 day, a period now where we at least know it'll be 30%. Or do we? Or do we?

[Alex Lindsay]

Yeah, it's, it's temporary. It's not like a permanent thing. So we.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah.

[Alex Lindsay]

So, so basically if you got another 90 days to decide whether or not you're going to buy like a maxed out Mac Mini minimum.

[Leo Laporte]

Well, but still 30, I got to tell you, 30% is, is more than it was. Right? I mean that's, that's more than a big.

[Alex Lindsay]

Yeah, yeah, it's still a problem, but.

[Leo Laporte]

It'S still, it's still a lot.

[Alex Lindsay]

Constantly is the terror future.

[Leo Laporte]

Apple says it's not going to mention tariffs in its price hikes. It's just going to give you more, you know, bang for your buck or something. Apple tv I'm excited about this. Jude Law and Andrew Garfield are going to play Siegfried and Roy in a new series. It's got to be called on TV Wild Things. I'm pres. I don't know who's going to be Siegfried and who's going to be Roy.

[Alex Lindsay]

But that was my question too. I could see it going either way. Or maybe it'll be like the Broadway version of the Odd Couple where they keep like switching roles every night just to keep it fresh every episode.

[Leo Laporte]

Unnerving that it's being created by the showrunner for only Murders in the Building.

[Alex Lindsay]

Might not be frolic. Frolicsome.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, well, that's a frolicsome show. It's based on the Apple podcast Wild Things, an eight hour or eight hour series that quote, tells the wild ride relationship tale of two of the greatest showman magicians in history who along with their white tigers, are tasked with turning Sin City into a family friendly destination while fighting crime. Let's see what other Apple TV news Seth Rogen apparently said no to. Tim Cook. I haven't seen this episode yet, but apparently there is in the, I think it's the Golden Globes episode of the new series the Studio, which mixed feelings about. That's not the greatest ever, but it's kind of fun.

[Jason Snell]

I love it.

[Leo Laporte]

You love it?

[Jason Snell]

I do. I think it's really funny.

[Leo Laporte]

It's a little whiplashy and it's, you know, it's all that drum and one shot and all that stuff. Anyway, apparently Sarandos, Ted Sarandos CEO Ted Sarandos is the president of Netflix. Appears in this Apple TV production in episode eight. Rogan's Beleaguered studio head Matt Remick attends the Golden Globes. Matt is stressed about the idea of not getting a shout out in the acceptance speech, an ongoing bid. Is that every winner from a Netflix project? A few exclusively. Thanks, Sarah Dose. In their speech, without fail, in the end, Matt has an encounter with Sarah Dose, who reveals he puts it in artists contracts. They have to thank him and accept his speeches. So apparently, according to this Business Insider piece, Apple said, hey, could Tim Cook be in that? Make a. Could it be Tim Cook? And Seth Rogen said, no, it wouldn't make any sense. It wouldn't make any sense. It had to be to the joke. It had to be Netflix, right?

[Alex Lindsay]

And this speaks well of Apple too, because if you look at, there are a lot of little quick hit stories based on this interview. And it was just like Apple basically said, hey, how about we use Tim here as a cameo? And he just said, no. And Apple said, okay, that's fine. And there are a lot of headlines I've seen about this, like, Seth bans Tim Cook from refuses Apple's demand to use Tim Cook.

[Leo Laporte]

Cook.

[Alex Lindsay]

It's like, yeah, you're taking something that's a light bit of fun and you're trying to make it something awful. Just don't do that.

[Leo Laporte]

And it wouldn't have worked in the script. I bet you though, you'll see Tim Cook at some point. It did get picked up, didn't it? I think there's. It got picked up for another season.

[Andy Ihnatko]

Yeah, it is a little subversive because, you know, Apple, you know, focuses on really high quality content, you know, that isn't necessarily branded and everything else. And they released it. They released a show that not only is really entertaining, but kind of kicks everybody who's making anything less than that, you know, and, and so it's, I think that, I'm not saying Apple asked for that. I'm saying that Seth Rogen might have sold that to them. Like, in addition to it, it also talks about all the other stuff and they might have. It might have made. It might sweeten the pot. But I don't think Apple asked for that kind of programming. I just think that that might have been an angle that might have been thought of when pitching it.

[Alex Lindsay]

Also. Also, I wonder if Seth Rogen is thinking, no, I've got something planned for when I, when we, when we, we deploy the Tim Apple. We're going to deploy Tim Apple, and this is not the place for that.

[Jason Snell]

And they did pick it up for a second season. So plenty more Options for Tim Apple to appear.

[Andy Ihnatko]

I have to admit, the one that I'm really looking forward to is. Is Murderbot like I am? I don't know why that trailer is so good.

[Leo Laporte]

It was a great book, right?

[Jason Snell]

I mean, yeah, great series.

[Andy Ihnatko]

And it just looks so good. And I was just like, I don't know. I'm embarrassed that I. That I'm. That I'm waiting for a show that's called Murderbot.

[Jason Snell]

So good.

[Leo Laporte]

It's comedic, it's funny.

[Andy Ihnatko]

It looks so good.

[Alex Lindsay]

It looks so good.

[Jason Snell]

It's the Weitz brothers who did American Pie and About a Boy. They're very good. The source material is so good and the reviews have been good so far that I've seen that. They really nail that. It's sci fi action mixed with a lot of interpersonal comedy about a character who really doesn't want people to look at them or pay attention to them in any way, which is awkward. Who hasn't felt that kind of awkwardness? Yeah, I'm looking forward to that.

[Leo Laporte]

That's me at every party I go to, to be honest.

[Jason Snell]

You could be a Murderbot.

[Leo Laporte]

You'll find me in the corner. Losing my religion. All right, now we can do the picks of the week. Get ready, boys and boys. It's coming up next. You're watching Mac Break Weekly with Andy Anako, Alex Lindsay and Jason Snell. We're so glad you're here, Jason Snell. Why don't you kick things off with your picks?

[Jason Snell]

Well, one of the things I did last week when I was in Arizona visiting my mom for her birthday is give her a birthday presentation. And I am now going to make her birthday present my pick of the week. It's the iPhone 16e.

[Leo Laporte]

Now you can write it off.

[Jason Snell]

It is, yeah. Now it's a business expense. Excellent. 599. Plus we traded in her old phone, which was a third generation iPhone. Se got 100 bucks, so it was 499. And the thing is, it is great. Again, if you are a tech connoisseur, perhaps you personally want a more phone than this, but it's iPhone 16. It's got the. It's got the processor for it. It'll do Apple intelligence whenever they ship the rest of those features. It's got the action button on it. It does not have camera control. I was happy not to have more buttons to explain to my mom, it's got only one camera on the back. But you know what, it's a pretty good camera. It's light, the battery life is Bananas. And the price is good. And it's for a modern phone that is going to last a long, long time. So this pitch is sort of not for our listeners necessarily as much as it is for the people who come to our listeners for advice about what iPhone to upgrade to or do they need a new iPhone. Do not sleep on the iPhone 16e. It is. One of the things I like about it is it's a modern iPhone. It doesn't feel like it's a relic of the past like all the SE models have always felt. It feels like today's iPhone, but a cheap version of it that frankly will be a crowd pleaser. You know, most people will not care that it's not a pro or that it doesn't have the second or third camera on it. And. And yeah. So I'm very happy. And I'm happy she's got it too. Because a funny thing, you may know this, if you're taking care of your older relatives, old skin is not as reliable with face or with touch id. The fingers get all kind of like pruny and they can't use touch ID anymore. My mom basically is immune to touch id.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh no.

[Jason Snell]

And face ID works great. So she can now just flip the phone open. We had to go through the thing where she's used to a home button, so we had to do the whole like, no, you need to flip at the bottom and she keeps putting her, her thumb down where the home button should be. And I'm like, yeah, just push it up from there and you'll get there. But it's a little learning curve, but. And we had to replace her lightning cables with USB C cables. Right. So there's some stuff going on. I bought her a case and I bought her a power adapter because I really did want her to get that full experience because she was back to on USB A and lightning cables before. But just what pretty, pretty great deal for a modern iPhone. So highly recommend iPhone 16e.

[Leo Laporte]

Nice. Very nice. Now you can give it back to mom.

[Jason Snell]

Yep, she can take it.

[Leo Laporte]

You say to her, hey mom, I got to show it on the show.

[Jason Snell]

So get the taxes, the apple loaner, the review unit.

[Leo Laporte]

What color did you get her?

[Jason Snell]

She got a white one. This is a black one, but she got a white one with the purpley red case.

[Leo Laporte]

Nice. Very nice. I have two picks. I was using your weather pick, Jason, for a while because it was the one that's going to follow you around Mercury weather as you travel. Mercury. And then I found this one, Windy And I'm actually really impressed with this. One of the things I like about Windy, which is iPhone, iPad, an Apple watch is you can choose the weather model you want. You can get hyper local weather and you get maps of wind and rain and storms and everything. Motion maps. It's really a Beautiful weather app, 24 bucks if you want the premium no ads version per year. So it's a little more than your choice and it has that feature although it's not as easily accessible. But you can give it waypoints in your travel and it will follow those along so you can see the weather everywhere you're going. Windy. And then I have another pick. I'm getting a lot of picks out of the way. A couple of weeks ago I mentioned that I got the new 360 camera really like this from insta the x5 and I have to say the image quality is really good. And I found a map that is really nice for it. It's a magnetic mount so I have it on the Insta tripod but it makes it very easy to get it on and off the mount. It's magnetic but it does grip in there and then you have a release on it and it's from ironically the same company Ulanzi, that makes one of your picks, Jason, the aluminum Mac mini case which I bought and love.

[Jason Snell]

Oh yeah.

[Leo Laporte]

So yeah, that was your. I thought that was the greatest thing ever. But let me show you the release. It's a little hard. You have to know it because it's designed for the Insta360 action cam but it's the same mount and because it is now that makes it an action cam mount because you have these flip down ears that you could use with any GoPro style mount. So it really is a good flexible quick release mount for the X5. I thought I'd mention it. And not very expensive. Alex Lindsey, your pick of the week.

[Andy Ihnatko]

So a lot of times I have to go to locations and I have to figure out what cameras are we going to use, what lenses are we going to use, how are we going to put this together, what are the framing going to be, where do we need to put things and where we take them away. And I can't take my blackmagic camera or my Arri or that I'm renting or whatever to the location. Look geeky if I was walking around with this big camera like looking through it and changing lenses while we're just doing a walkthrough. So I use one of two apps, Artemis Pro, which I've talked about in the past and CAD Rage. And so I really like CAD Rage as, you know, as a, as an app. So what this does is it'll let you. CAD Rage lets you simulate a certain lens on a camera. So you can say I have a 28 millimeter lens on this, on a Blackmagic Ursa G2. And it'll simulate what you would see so you can look through your camera and go, oh, this is what this would look like. And it allows you to, you can, you can capture that image so you can put it in, you know, and organize it and so on and so forth of like this is the frame that if we're standing here, can, can grab that. And it's a. If you haven't used it before, if you haven't used a tool like this before. Super useful if you're trying to figure things out. I know some directors that will use it on set instead. You know, just real quickly to think about things. But I use it mostly in my. When I'm pre. Visiting a location and trying to figure out where what cameras are going to work. There's nothing worse than trying to like normally the other option is for you to bring all the lenses, you know, like, like I don't know what we're going to do here, but we're going to bring all the lenses. And so anyway, that's CAD Rage and it's a, it's a great app for the eye, for the phone.

[Leo Laporte]

CAD Rage. Because there's never enough rage in your cad.

[Andy Ihnatko]

Exactly, exactly.

[Leo Laporte]

Why do they call it rage?

[Andy Ihnatko]

I don't know. It might be cadridge or Catrige. We just call it.

[Leo Laporte]

It's even worse.

[Andy Ihnatko]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Leo Laporte]

Like cabbage.

[Andy Ihnatko]

Like cabbage, but with a cad.

[Leo Laporte]

Cabbage with cad.

[Andy Ihnatko]

Yeah.

[Leo Laporte]

CAD Rage Director's viewfinder. I think you should have that thing you carry around your neck, the little lens that, you know, the pros, you know, around their neck. Don't you know that?

[Andy Ihnatko]

I, I don't have one of those. Those are expensive. And, and I, and, and again the thing is, is that you hook a lot of those things onto the actual lens to look through it, you know, so it's a view. Little viewfinder that, that you end up with to do those accurately. And, and the thing is, is if I use that, I can't capture all the images and send like I was in.

[Leo Laporte]

This is perfect because it's. You're taking pictures of the different aspect ratios.

[Andy Ihnatko]

I had a, I had a shoot in, in Angkor Wat in, In Cambodia. And I, I was doing previs for it six weeks ahead of time. So I flew to, flew to Angkor Wat and we did, we looked at all the locations and I had, and I'm sitting there capturing all the, like, and then the person will be over here and then the person will be over there and then they'll do this and this is the part of the temple that would, behind them and, and this and, and I know. So you build the whole storyboard that I had a couple people that I was with and I said, okay, stand here. I think in some cases I actually I, I, I grabbed two tourists and I said, I'll pay you $50 each just to walk around with me for an hour. Is that okay? And they're like, sure, you know, you know, like I just bought them lunch, you know, and so then I just walked them around and had them be the people and, and, and, and shot all the things. But then I come home with my phone with all those, with all those shots.

[Leo Laporte]

You're right, this is much better.

[Andy Ihnatko]

And then I can't carry a camera around in Cambodia. I mean, just getting into the country is a thing, you know, so, so the, so anyway, so then we figured it all out. Six weeks later we came back and, you know, we have all the stuff we needed, you know, that was rented from Singapore and brought through Kai customs and all the things, and we were able to get just what we needed.

[Leo Laporte]

It's so funny, people. The phone does so much now that all those rules, like when we were inside the pyramids in Egypt, down inside looking. This is a newly opened one. The colors are spectacular. No cameras, no cameras. But everybody has a phone now and it's as good a camera as anything. And so I got great pictures. And they just can't ban that stuff anymore. You can't. Customs can't say, well, you can't bring the phone into the country. That's great. Everything should be on the phone. Andy and Otko Pick of the week.

[Alex Lindsay]

My pick is something that I wish I didn't have to pick because it's one of my favorite apps. It's called Graphic, and it is basically, if you're an old schooler, it's like Mac Draw for the Mac and for the iPhone and for the iPad. It's a vector drawing app, but it's designed to, to be dirt simple. It's like I had to draw like a Venn diagram as an illustration for something. And with an app like Graphic, you can just knock that out in like 10 minutes if that if you need to, like, create a poster for like a yard sale, you can knock that out in five minutes, if that, without any restrictions on what you want to do. There are so many really great vector drawing apps, but they almost all have aspirations towards being like, oh, well, of course you want to draw. Trying to draw an art nouveau poster that's an advertisement for your new whatever. And it's supposed to be what, 80, 80 inches by 72 inches, like door size. Great, we'll help you do that. It's like, no, I really just want up here, I want like yard sale at the bottom, I want the address. And in the middle I want to say futon, futon, kitchen stuff, garage stuff. And please just let me, let me do that in three minutes and get gone. Graphic is the best app for doing simple things like that you can do Very simple.

[Leo Laporte]

See, it's good to describe it that way because the images on the website make you think, well, this is for designers. This isn't for me. But you're right, you need this for posters.

[Alex Lindsay]

It's like print Shop, Rotor, Bun, Print shop again, another fish for the old schoolers. But the reason why I don't want to recommend it is that it has been updated in seven years. Autodesk. Autodesk bought it and then they did something with it and then they decided, yeah, I guess we're done with that. Like, even if you go to like, those shows, their social medias, it's not like, so there's somebody who's like, oh, every three months, like, hey, hey, did you know that you can do this in the app? It's like, it hasn't been abandoned. It still works fine. I still use it all the time. It's still very cheap. 30 bucks. And like, it's perfectly. It syncs through icloud, so it's very, very easy to see sync between devices. I would recommend that you also look at an app called Amadine A M A D I N A. I like it. It's just a little bit more complicated than I would like it to be. But I just have trouble recommending an app that has not been updated in seven years. If you spend 30 bucks for this, maybe the next big OS update is the OS update in which this thing breaks and no one's going to feel fix it. But I'll at least let you know that Graphic is the app that I would love to be like the baseline for simple vector drawing apps. There are too many apps that, again, they try to be a lot, they service professionals and they Try to. And of course, the ad copy will always say, oh, well, great for beginners or the professional, like, yeah, but unfortunately, you can't just, like, please hide. You know, you got 28 tool icons over there in the left, left. Could you hide all but, like, 18 of them for me? No. Well, do I have to do everything on, like, 13 layers? You don't have to use all of them, but, yeah, you do have to, like, be manipulating layers. And it's like, again, I just want a garage sale sign or I just want to put a sign on my front door that says, I'm podcasting. Go away. You know, so Amadine. For people who want a future graphic. For people who want something that will definitely be a simple drawing program but may or may not be around in a year, too.

[Leo Laporte]

For people who love the past. Yes. Andy Anatko, thank you so much. Great to see you.

[Alex Lindsay]

Great to be here. Thanks, guys.

[Leo Laporte]

I don't think you have anything to plug, do you?

[Alex Lindsay]

Not yet.

[Jason Snell]

Okay. It's coming soon.

[Alex Lindsay]

It is.

[Leo Laporte]

Okay. That's Jason Snell. He's got much to plug6colors.com. But he never rests because he's also a future Jeopardy. Champion and the host of future Jeopardy.

[Jason Snell]

Champion. Call me. Call me. Yeah. My kids and honors.

[Alex Lindsay]

Can you buy a T shirt that says future Jeopardy. Champion?

[Leo Laporte]

That would be a good kids shirt.

[Jason Snell]

Yeah. I don't know if Dan and Glenn. Yeah. Sixcolors.com People should check it out. We got lots of good stuff there this week. The Glenn stuff and Shelly's thing about.

[Leo Laporte]

Accessibility, you know, that's so great that you are doing so well and you're able to bring Glenn in and all of that. I think this is just great. It's getting better. How are you doing that? It's getting better.

[Jason Snell]

Just, you know, getting. Getting some good people I know to write stuff.

[Leo Laporte]

I love that.

[Jason Snell]

It's good.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, Jason.

[Jason Snell]

Thank you, Alex.

[Leo Laporte]

Lindsay. Office hours, global Q and A time.

[Andy Ihnatko]

Q and A every day. Some evenings, weekends, we just do Q and A. It's. It's a. It's a Q and A fest. We also, you know, gray matter is still cranking away. We. We had. We. We had Michael McFall, who was the former ambassador to Russia, to talk about Ukraine, and then only the week before that, Robert Lustig, who most talks a lot about sugar as poison. So. So that's the kind of range you get in the. In the. As Andy drinks his Coke. So anyway, so it's okay.

[Leo Laporte]

It's Mexican sugar. It's different.

[Andy Ihnatko]

Yeah. And so, so anyway we, we, we've it's been, you know, we're having some incredible conversations at Greatmander show and so definitely worth checking out as well.

[Alex Lindsay]

Corn syrup. That's freedom sugar man. Freedom usa.

[Leo Laporte]

Okay. Only the best gray matter show. Yeah, I really think McFall is fascinating. I'm gonna have to listen to this.

[Andy Ihnatko]

Really, really good conversation.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you Alex, Andy, Jason. Thanks to all of you who watch. We do the show every Tuesday 11am Pacific, 2pm Eastern. Eastern, 1800 UTC. You can watch us on eight different channels. Of course club members get their own behind the velvet rope access in our Club Twit Discord. But everybody, the unwashed masses can watch on YouTube Twitch, TikTok. You're not unwashed. You bathe every day. I know you do. YouTube, Twitch, TikTok X.com they don't wash there. Facebook, LinkedIn and Kik.com watch live if you want want. But of course you can always watch after the fact as well. In fact I encourage you to do that. You can get copies of the show at TWiT TV MBW. You can watch on YouTube. There's a dedicated Mac Break weekly channel great for sharing clips with friends and fam. And of course you can subscribe in your favorite podcast player. Do me a favor. If you subscribe, leave us a good review. I used to say five star review but some of them don't do they do four stars. Leave us the best review you can in good conscience leave us. How about that on your favorite podcaster? I'm also also was asked to remind club members but everybody that Twitter TV newsletter is our free newsletter. Occasionally club members say how do you find out about the events coming up that you're going to do for the club if you're not in the Discord? It might not be easy unless you subscribe to the newsletter. Everything is there. Newsletter highlights, upcoming episodes, things that are going on in the company and things that are going on in the club. Twit TV newsletter. It's free. I want to encourage you to subscribe so you'll always know what's coming up. Okay, I guess that's it. My sad and solemn duty to tell you you gotta get back to work now because break time is over. See you next week. Get your tech news exactly how you want it with TWiT TV. Tech News Weekly with Micah Sargent delivers quick hit coverage at exclusive journalist interviews, giving you the inside scoop on breaking tech stories in under an hour. Now for deeper dives, I hope you'll join me Leo laporte and a great panel of tech industry experts. That's every Sunday with this Week in Tech. We'll break down everything from AI breakthroughs to privacy concerns to cyber security alerts in the tech world's longest running and most trusted tech news roundtable. So efficient or in depth, the choice is yours. Subscribe to both shows wherever you get your podcasts and head on over to our website, Twit TV for even more independent tech journalism.