MacBreak Weekly Episode 995: "Fuhgeddaboudit!"

Date: October 22, 2025
Host: Leo Laporte
Guests: Jason Snell (Six Colors), Andy Ihnatko
Absent: Alex Lindsay (on secret assignment)

Overview

This episode of MacBreak Weekly covers a slew of new Apple product releases now that embargoes are lifted—specifically, reviews and deep dives into the M5 MacBook Pro, iPad Pro, and the Vision Pro (now with an M5 chip). The hosts focus on reviewing these "Pro" devices and explore Apple's ongoing hardware and software strategy for the Vision Pro, MacBooks, and iPads, as well as discuss Apple's strategy (and struggles) in spatial computing and AI. Other topics include future Apple products (like a potential Home Hub), the ongoing issue of streaming hardware pricing, and touching on commemorative coins, smart home devices, and grammar checkers.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Embargo Lift: The M5 Era Begins

Main Products: M5 MacBook Pro, M5 iPad Pro, M5 Vision Pro.
- The M5 upgrades are largely incremental, with only the base MacBook Pro model updated. No M5 Pro or Max yet (41:44).
- iPad Pro M5 model is basically same as M4, except for the chip (42:13).

“If you've got an iPad Pro with an M on it, you're probably okay.”
— Jason Snell, 54:35

2. Vision Pro: State of the Platform

M5 Vision Pro Upgrades (04:00–29:30)

Hand Controller Support: PSVR2 controllers now supported for Vision Pro via VisionOS 26 (05:03, 16:08).
- Jason Snell tested Sony controllers; variable app support, works great in the PicklePro game (06:23).
- “Nobody in their right mind should pay $3,500 for a Vision Pro and then 3 or $400 for PSVR controllers. … Just get a Quest 3 if you want to play games. … It comes with hand controllers. They're included. It's amazing.” — Jason Snell, 07:17
M5 Performance: Main differences are more pixels rendered (about 10% more) and higher refresh rate (up to 120Hz), improving clarity in features like Mac virtual displays (11:52, 17:14).
- M2 was not strong enough to fully utilize the Sony OLEDs even with foveated rendering.
Content Dilemma: Despite technical improvements, the content remains thin. The killer use case is still being sought, possibly immersive sports (NBA/F1), movies, or professional displays.
- “This thing needs content. It's hungry, it's desperate for content. And games is content just like immersive video is content.” — Jason Snell, 19:03
AI, Gaming, and Apple’s Approach: Apple is still hesitant to market Vision Pro as a gaming device, unlike Meta (19:12). Gaming support is being enabled behind the scenes, rather than emphasized.
Immersive Sports: Upcoming immersive broadcasts—live Lakers games and, more notably, Apple’s $750M acquisition of US Formula 1 broadcast rights—could become the “killer app” (20:46–25:42).
- “You just need one real good reason to do it, whatever it is … there are people who — that will sell the headset.”— Jason Snell, 24:09
Platform Prophesy: Vision Pro remains a faith-based initiative waiting to justify its existence. Apple’s investments are laying groundwork for future AR/VR/smart glasses, but most agree the mass-market breakthrough is far off (29:39–34:48).
- “I still say it's yet to be demonstrated that this is even a viable product. Which is not to say that it isn't…” — Andy Ihnatko, 29:39

Vision Pro Memorable Quotes

“Benchmarks would indicate that it is now 40% faster at sitting in a drawer doing nothing for months on end.” — Andy Ihnatko, 16:40
“We're what? I, I don't know if we're ever going to be at ‘most people want to strap a big thing on their face.’” — Jason Snell, 35:40

3. M5 MacBook Pro & iPad Pro Reviews (41:40–60:00)

Hardware: M5 MacBook Pro refreshes only the base 14-inch model; new iPad Pro is essentially a re-chip of the previous generation (42:13).
Displays: The iPad Pro’s tandem OLED is still considered Apple's best screen (43:09). Rumor: touchscreen OLEDs for the next-gen MacBook Pros (43:23).
Apple Chips for Wireless: Apple’s proprietary Wi-Fi and cellular chips are only in iPad Pros; MacBooks do not have built-in cellular (still). Wi-Fi 7 available only in iPads (43:59–44:58).
Machine Learning: M5 brings major ML acceleration, especially on GPU, but most use cases remain in the cloud for now (45:58).
Upgrade Advice: Upgrading is only recommended for those on much older hardware, or specific users needing the absolute best displays or incremental performance gains.
Platform Convergence: With iPad hardware rivaling MacBooks and rumors of future touchscreens, speculation continues on the future cross-pollination between iPad and Mac (58:40–63:58).
- “If Apple makes a convertible MacBook Pro that turns into a tablet, then I think we have a problem. Or maybe it's great, but it certainly is an identity crisis.” — Jason Snell, 59:27

4. Apple’s Smart Home Strategy & AI Progress (69:42–83:48)

New Home Products: Rumors of a HomePod mini with a screen (“Home Hub”) and a wall-mountable version, with potential release pushed to 2026 when new Siri launches (70:48).
Competition: Apple's approach is framed as privacy-centric, versus Amazon/Google's more functional but less private voice assistants (73:21).
AI Turbulence: Ongoing executive departures from Apple’s AI teams raise doubts about its strategy and timeline for a “smarter Siri” (76:09).
- “These are the people who failed to ship a good model... it’s not surprising that [they] are leaving Apple, when they're told ‘you failed and we're going to try something different.’” — Jason Snell, 79:33

5. Apple TV & Streaming Hardware Rant (84:53–101:33)

Apple TV 4K: Remains the best streaming box if you dislike surveillance and advertising in products from Amazon, Roku, etc., though many, including Snell, wish it was more affordable (<$100) to compete with sticks and be a better home hub (85:03–89:15).
UI Critique: The tvOS interface is in need of modernizing; Apple’s focus has been software-light, relying on hardware performance (86:09).
Killer Use Cases: The panel debates whether Apple is missing an opportunity to “lead” in the affordable streamer box space, especially with its big investments into live sports entertainment (95:34–99:05).
- “More people should have the Apple TV. It's a good product.” — Jason Snell, 100:27

6. Miscellaneous and Lighter Moments

Commemorative Coins: Steve Jobs to appear on a commemorative California state coin; discussion on U.S. commemoratives and the cultural quirks of currency (113:25–121:25).
Fun Quote: “There’s something about gentlemen of a certain age and the two dollar bill.” — Jason Snell, 115:02

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

[07:17] Jason Snell:
“Nobody in their right mind should pay $3,500 for a Vision Pro and then 3 or $400 for PSVR controllers... Just get a Quest 3 if you want to play games. … It comes with hand controllers. They're included. It's amazing.”
[16:40] Andy Ihnatko:
“Benchmarks would indicate that it is now 40% faster at sitting in a drawer doing nothing for months on end.”
[19:03] Jason Snell:
“This thing needs content. It's hungry, it's desperate for content. And games is content just like immersive video is content.”
[29:39] Andy Ihnatko:
“I still say it's yet to be demonstrated that this is even a viable product. Which is not to say that it isn't ... but I'm saying... this is still a faith-based initiative on Apple's part…”
[54:35] Jason Snell:
“If you've got an iPad Pro with an M on it, you're probably okay.”
[100:27] Jason Snell:
“More people should have the Apple TV. It's a good product.”

Timestamps for Important Segments

Vision Pro Review, Hand Controllers, M5 vs. M2: 04:00–29:30
Immersive Sports (NBA, F1 deals): 20:46–25:42
M5 MacBook Pro & iPad Pro Review: 41:40–60:00
Platform Convergence, Touch Macs?: 58:40–63:58
Home Hub & Smart Home Products: 69:42–83:48
Apple TV/Streaming Hardware Discussion: 84:53–101:33
Commemorative Coins & Currency Banter: 113:25–121:25

Picks of the Week (From 128:08)

Leo Laporte:
- Craig Hockenberry's Tahoe Electron Detector
  Identify Electron apps on MacOS Tahoe that are vulnerable to system slowdowns.
- Notepad.exe for Mac
  Lightweight, native Swift and Python code editor for MacOS.
Andy Ihnatko:
- Harper
  Minimalist, open-source, privacy-respecting grammar and spell-checker; works as browser plugin, Obsidian plugin, etc.
Jason Snell:
- Tapo Smart Outdoor Plug-Dimmer
  Matter-compatible, dimmable, waterproof plug for automating/decorating garden lights (and more), $23–30.

Apple Ad: "Save It" (106:38)

Apple launches a new ad campaign centered around the creativity unlocked by a Mac, narrated by Jane Goodall (recently deceased), focusing on the positive message that every great idea starts with a blank screen.

Closing Thoughts

The panel agrees that Apple’s latest "Pro" refreshes are solid but not must-upgrades, and that Apple's Vision Pro remains a slow-burn "bet" on the future of spatial computing. Enduring wish lists include a more competitive Apple TV streamer box, cellular MacBooks, and a true “killer app” for Vision Pro. Amid skepticism about Apple’s AI trajectory, the hosts still recommend Apple’s privacy-forward approach—when paired with best-in-class hardware—as a unique market strength.

Listen to the next episode for Apple's Q4 results, more analysis on the M5 era, and speculation about the home's growing role in the Apple ecosystem.

Hosts:
Leo Laporte, Jason Snell (sixcolors.com), Andy Ihnatko
Episode: MacBreak Weekly #995 – "Fuhgeddaboudit!"
Date: 10/22/2025

[Show notes structured and summarized by AI.]

MacBreak Weekly Episode 995: "Fuhgeddaboudit!"

Date: October 22, 2025
Host: Leo Laporte
Guests: Jason Snell (Six Colors), Andy Ihnatko
Absent: Alex Lindsay (on secret assignment)

Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Embargo Lift: The M5 Era Begins

Main Products: M5 MacBook Pro, M5 iPad Pro, M5 Vision Pro.
- The M5 upgrades are largely incremental, with only the base MacBook Pro model updated. No M5 Pro or Max yet (41:44).
- iPad Pro M5 model is basically same as M4, except for the chip (42:13).

“If you've got an iPad Pro with an M on it, you're probably okay.”
— Jason Snell, 54:35

2. Vision Pro: State of the Platform

M5 Vision Pro Upgrades (04:00–29:30)

Hand Controller Support: PSVR2 controllers now supported for Vision Pro via VisionOS 26 (05:03, 16:08).
- Jason Snell tested Sony controllers; variable app support, works great in the PicklePro game (06:23).
- “Nobody in their right mind should pay $3,500 for a Vision Pro and then 3 or $400 for PSVR controllers. … Just get a Quest 3 if you want to play games. … It comes with hand controllers. They're included. It's amazing.” — Jason Snell, 07:17
M5 Performance: Main differences are more pixels rendered (about 10% more) and higher refresh rate (up to 120Hz), improving clarity in features like Mac virtual displays (11:52, 17:14).
- M2 was not strong enough to fully utilize the Sony OLEDs even with foveated rendering.
Content Dilemma: Despite technical improvements, the content remains thin. The killer use case is still being sought, possibly immersive sports (NBA/F1), movies, or professional displays.
- “This thing needs content. It's hungry, it's desperate for content. And games is content just like immersive video is content.” — Jason Snell, 19:03
AI, Gaming, and Apple’s Approach: Apple is still hesitant to market Vision Pro as a gaming device, unlike Meta (19:12). Gaming support is being enabled behind the scenes, rather than emphasized.
Immersive Sports: Upcoming immersive broadcasts—live Lakers games and, more notably, Apple’s $750M acquisition of US Formula 1 broadcast rights—could become the “killer app” (20:46–25:42).
- “You just need one real good reason to do it, whatever it is … there are people who — that will sell the headset.”— Jason Snell, 24:09
Platform Prophesy: Vision Pro remains a faith-based initiative waiting to justify its existence. Apple’s investments are laying groundwork for future AR/VR/smart glasses, but most agree the mass-market breakthrough is far off (29:39–34:48).
- “I still say it's yet to be demonstrated that this is even a viable product. Which is not to say that it isn't…” — Andy Ihnatko, 29:39

Vision Pro Memorable Quotes

“Benchmarks would indicate that it is now 40% faster at sitting in a drawer doing nothing for months on end.” — Andy Ihnatko, 16:40
“We're what? I, I don't know if we're ever going to be at ‘most people want to strap a big thing on their face.’” — Jason Snell, 35:40

3. M5 MacBook Pro & iPad Pro Reviews (41:40–60:00)

Hardware: M5 MacBook Pro refreshes only the base 14-inch model; new iPad Pro is essentially a re-chip of the previous generation (42:13).
Displays: The iPad Pro’s tandem OLED is still considered Apple's best screen (43:09). Rumor: touchscreen OLEDs for the next-gen MacBook Pros (43:23).
Apple Chips for Wireless: Apple’s proprietary Wi-Fi and cellular chips are only in iPad Pros; MacBooks do not have built-in cellular (still). Wi-Fi 7 available only in iPads (43:59–44:58).
Machine Learning: M5 brings major ML acceleration, especially on GPU, but most use cases remain in the cloud for now (45:58).
Upgrade Advice: Upgrading is only recommended for those on much older hardware, or specific users needing the absolute best displays or incremental performance gains.
Platform Convergence: With iPad hardware rivaling MacBooks and rumors of future touchscreens, speculation continues on the future cross-pollination between iPad and Mac (58:40–63:58).
- “If Apple makes a convertible MacBook Pro that turns into a tablet, then I think we have a problem. Or maybe it's great, but it certainly is an identity crisis.” — Jason Snell, 59:27

4. Apple’s Smart Home Strategy & AI Progress (69:42–83:48)

New Home Products: Rumors of a HomePod mini with a screen (“Home Hub”) and a wall-mountable version, with potential release pushed to 2026 when new Siri launches (70:48).
Competition: Apple's approach is framed as privacy-centric, versus Amazon/Google's more functional but less private voice assistants (73:21).
AI Turbulence: Ongoing executive departures from Apple’s AI teams raise doubts about its strategy and timeline for a “smarter Siri” (76:09).
- “These are the people who failed to ship a good model... it’s not surprising that [they] are leaving Apple, when they're told ‘you failed and we're going to try something different.’” — Jason Snell, 79:33

5. Apple TV & Streaming Hardware Rant (84:53–101:33)

Apple TV 4K: Remains the best streaming box if you dislike surveillance and advertising in products from Amazon, Roku, etc., though many, including Snell, wish it was more affordable (<$100) to compete with sticks and be a better home hub (85:03–89:15).
UI Critique: The tvOS interface is in need of modernizing; Apple’s focus has been software-light, relying on hardware performance (86:09).
Killer Use Cases: The panel debates whether Apple is missing an opportunity to “lead” in the affordable streamer box space, especially with its big investments into live sports entertainment (95:34–99:05).
- “More people should have the Apple TV. It's a good product.” — Jason Snell, 100:27

6. Miscellaneous and Lighter Moments

Commemorative Coins: Steve Jobs to appear on a commemorative California state coin; discussion on U.S. commemoratives and the cultural quirks of currency (113:25–121:25).
Fun Quote: “There’s something about gentlemen of a certain age and the two dollar bill.” — Jason Snell, 115:02

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

[07:17] Jason Snell:
“Nobody in their right mind should pay $3,500 for a Vision Pro and then 3 or $400 for PSVR controllers... Just get a Quest 3 if you want to play games. … It comes with hand controllers. They're included. It's amazing.”
[16:40] Andy Ihnatko:
“Benchmarks would indicate that it is now 40% faster at sitting in a drawer doing nothing for months on end.”
[19:03] Jason Snell:
“This thing needs content. It's hungry, it's desperate for content. And games is content just like immersive video is content.”
[29:39] Andy Ihnatko:
“I still say it's yet to be demonstrated that this is even a viable product. Which is not to say that it isn't ... but I'm saying... this is still a faith-based initiative on Apple's part…”
[54:35] Jason Snell:
“If you've got an iPad Pro with an M on it, you're probably okay.”
[100:27] Jason Snell:
“More people should have the Apple TV. It's a good product.”

Timestamps for Important Segments

Vision Pro Review, Hand Controllers, M5 vs. M2: 04:00–29:30
Immersive Sports (NBA, F1 deals): 20:46–25:42
M5 MacBook Pro & iPad Pro Review: 41:40–60:00
Platform Convergence, Touch Macs?: 58:40–63:58
Home Hub & Smart Home Products: 69:42–83:48
Apple TV/Streaming Hardware Discussion: 84:53–101:33
Commemorative Coins & Currency Banter: 113:25–121:25

Picks of the Week (From 128:08)

Leo Laporte:
- Craig Hockenberry's Tahoe Electron Detector
  Identify Electron apps on MacOS Tahoe that are vulnerable to system slowdowns.
- Notepad.exe for Mac
  Lightweight, native Swift and Python code editor for MacOS.
Andy Ihnatko:
- Harper
  Minimalist, open-source, privacy-respecting grammar and spell-checker; works as browser plugin, Obsidian plugin, etc.
Jason Snell:
- Tapo Smart Outdoor Plug-Dimmer
  Matter-compatible, dimmable, waterproof plug for automating/decorating garden lights (and more), $23–30.

Apple Ad: "Save It" (106:38)

Apple launches a new ad campaign centered around the creativity unlocked by a Mac, narrated by Jane Goodall (recently deceased), focusing on the positive message that every great idea starts with a blank screen.

Closing Thoughts

Listen to the next episode for Apple's Q4 results, more analysis on the M5 era, and speculation about the home's growing role in the Apple ecosystem.

Hosts:
Leo Laporte, Jason Snell (sixcolors.com), Andy Ihnatko
Episode: MacBreak Weekly #995 – "Fuhgeddaboudit!"
Date: 10/22/2025

[Show notes structured and summarized by AI.]

wavePod

MacBreak Weekly 995: Fuhgeddaboudit!

Powered by Wave AI

Summary

MacBreak Weekly Episode 995: "Fuhgeddaboudit!"

Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Embargo Lift: The M5 Era Begins

2. Vision Pro: State of the Platform

M5 Vision Pro Upgrades (04:00–29:30)

Vision Pro Memorable Quotes

3. M5 MacBook Pro & iPad Pro Reviews (41:40–60:00)

4. Apple’s Smart Home Strategy & AI Progress (69:42–83:48)

5. Apple TV & Streaming Hardware Rant (84:53–101:33)

6. Miscellaneous and Lighter Moments

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Important Segments

Picks of the Week (From 128:08)

Apple Ad: "Save It" (106:38)

Closing Thoughts

Summary

MacBreak Weekly Episode 995: "Fuhgeddaboudit!"

Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Embargo Lift: The M5 Era Begins

2. Vision Pro: State of the Platform

M5 Vision Pro Upgrades (04:00–29:30)

Vision Pro Memorable Quotes

3. M5 MacBook Pro & iPad Pro Reviews (41:40–60:00)

4. Apple’s Smart Home Strategy & AI Progress (69:42–83:48)

5. Apple TV & Streaming Hardware Rant (84:53–101:33)

6. Miscellaneous and Lighter Moments

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Important Segments

Picks of the Week (From 128:08)

Apple Ad: "Save It" (106:38)

Closing Thoughts