Micah Sargent (5:53)

Yeah, and this is the thing about what you, what you're talking about here is that this is the most convincing and sort of reasonable step that I've heard when it comes to where we stand on the effect of social media on young people. There's a lot, a lot, a lot of stuff out there and there's a lot of panic out there and there's a lot of misinformation out there and there's some disinformation out there and there is a non zero amount, there are a non zero amount of people who are kind of trying to have a reasonable approach to those concerns and say, well, we did this with books when those first hit the scene, we did this with rock and roll music when it first hit the scene. We did this with video games. We did this. There's this panic of, oh, it's all affecting our kids, yada, yada, yada. And so sometimes these efforts can get lumped into that overall fear mongering that is taking place. This seems like, again, one of the most reasonable changes to make because of what you said about how someone could be seeing this in the platform, getting used to their face appearing a certain way and then the dysmorphia, right, of looking at themselves without the filter and saying, now I am not that ideal version of myself. It's not the person that I want to be that can be really damaging to one's personal identity. When you were talking about that, it did make me think about something else, that social media, and particularly audio and video based social media is changing. And this is something that I know a lot of people experience based on me talking to a lot of people about it, which is that a lot of people up to this point spend many years of their lives not hearing themselves except as they're speaking. And the first time they hear themselves from an external source, it is really jarring. And many times people will have a viscerally negative reaction, not because their voice sounds bad or anything like that, but because it sounds different from what they're expecting.

Abrar Elhity (8:34)

Yeah.

Micah Sargent (8:35)

And this generation that's growing up, it's interesting that they're probably, many of them are not going to have that issue because they will be recording themselves or their parents will be recording them and you know, playing oh look what you when you were the same and so on and so forth. And here you are talking about. And that is fascinating to me. But when I think about the viscerally negative reaction that I hear from so many people who experience that, I can only imagine what that must feel like. If their whole life they're looking at things through this filtered lens and then they come to. They have to, you know, to come to understand that what they really look like versus what this, you know, beauty standard looks like are two different things that could be. I could imagine that being very, very damaging. So this is, this is overall a good thing, I feel. And here's the thing, even if the platform doesn't go as far as what TikTok is doing with, because there's that complaint like, okay, they can do this, but people are just going to lie about their age. That has always been a factor. That has always been something that's going on. I think that making this change, even if they didn't go further in saying here's how we're going to detect, I still think that's a positive thing to throw this out or say, well, this isn't worth it because people are going to lie about their age. No, the change is still taking place. And ultimately it is the responsibility of the guardians of these youths to be mindful of what they are doing and consuming and et cetera, et cetera. So yeah, I think this is a positive thing all around, which is an odd thing. I'm feeling sort of an odd feeling about it because so much of this is stuff where I'm going, let's slow down and chill out. We don't really understand the impact and there's a lot more research that needs to be done and the fear mongering is just causing damage overall, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera here. I'm going, rah, rah, rah. This really does feel like a smart change. So good on. On TikTok in this case, I think.

Abrar Elhity (10:54)

Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, I think it's because we see that direct impact immediately because we've always known that, you know, people comparing themselves to either somebody in a magazine or on Instagram is unhealthy. But imagine comparing yourself to yourself, but it's not really you. Right. And that's even more damaging because it's like, well, I see that I can be this thing, but it's not real and I can't. I can't really, you know, access it. So. So yeah, I think this will hopefully, you know, be an immediate change that will take a while to sink in for people. But once it does, I think, you know, hopefully a good move. But yeah, we've seen a series of updates from TikTok Instagram, like Instagram, for example, rolling out teen accounts not too long ago, which makes anyone's account under 18 Private by default limits. Things like, you know, notifications at certain hours and more parental controls. But, you know, those things seem like things that will take a bit more time for people to accept, but also to see what the impact might be. But I think something like this that affects your body image and how you see yourself, hopefully more immediate positive impact because it's good to stay away from those filters. And if you don't even have the option, that's even better.

Micah Sargent (12:11)

Yeah, I agree. I also think of some of the beauty filter pranks that you'll see fly by. One that I've seen recently where someone will be pretending to do a friend or a significant other's eyebrows.

Abrar Elhity (12:28)

Yeah.

Micah Sargent (12:29)

And then they put on the filter that really thins out their eyebrows and show it to them and they're very convincing. So the person sees this and is going, oh my goodness, what have you done? And again, that is another example of just how visceral and powerful an impact change to our appearance can have on our psyche. You know, that it's enough that people are making these recordings of it because it is something where you immediately go and it can be shocking. So, yeah, this is so easy to see and show. Here is an impact that anybody can witness. Let's do something about it. I think is a. Is a positive thing. So I would like to see maybe some movement on Snapchat's front. Oh, other one. That's common for a lot of these filters. Yeah, that might be. That might be a good place to go next.

Abrar Elhity (13:28)

That's a good point. I mean, that's kind of where it all began. And I will note, don't worry, the bunny ears, all that, that's staying because that's not normal. So bunny ear filters, if that's what you're into.

Micah Sargent (13:39)

Yeah.

Abrar Elhity (13:40)

But just that makes you look a little too polished. So. But yeah.

Micah Sargent (13:46)

All righty. Well, I believe it is time for us to take a quick little break. Before we come back with my story of the week, I want to tell you about Veeam. We're bringing you this episode of Tech News Weekly. Without your data, your customers trust turns to digital dust. That's why Veeam's data protection and ransomware recovery ensures that you can secure and restore your enterprise data wherever and whenever you need it, no matter what happens. As the number one global market leader in data resilience, Veeam is trusted by more than 77% of the Fortune 500 to keep their businesses running when digital disruptions like ransomware strike. That's because Veeam lets you actually do quite a bit. You can backup and recover your data instantly across your entire cloud ecosystem, proactively detect malicious activity, remove the guesswork by automating your recovery plans and policies, and get real time support from ransomware recovery experts. Data is the lifeblood of your business. So get data resilient with Veeam. Go to Veeam, that's V e e a m.com to learn more. And we thank Veeam for sponsoring this week's episode of Tech News Weekly. All righty, we are back from the break and I will be covering my story of the week. This is ostensibly about an app that lets you determine the day you'll die. So here's the thing. There has long, long, long been a subset of research that is devoted to longevity and devoted to sort of the economic impact, the financial impact of lifespan on everything. And so there have always been, or not always, but there have for a long time been sort of standardized tables, so to speak, that you could use to determine the average lifespan of a person in a given place. And as they talk about in this Bloomberg article from Alexandra Tanzi, the US Life expectancy is actually rather low. Thank you, actuarial tables. Wojo in the chat. The US Life expectancy is rather low in comparison to quite a few other countries. Japan, Switzerland, Sweden, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Canada, Austria, UK and Germany. All rank, I would say, far above the U.S. but while the average and the sort of standardized actuarial table suggests one thing, we all know that every individual human body is affected in different ways by its environment and by a whole host of factors, including, you know, genetic factors and everything in between. And so using that average life expectancy to say that by the time if you reach 85% or, excuse me, 85 years old, you have a 10% probability of dying within a year is accurate for some and not accurate for others. So this app, Death Clock has come along and it is trained on several studies that help to provide a little bit more insight into when you might die. According to Bloomberg, the app is rather grim. It displays a fond farewell death day card featuring the Grim Reaper. But still, Death Clock is catching on because people are curious how different aspects of their lives can have an impact on their life expectancy. But this Bloomberg piece is not just about Death Clock, which we'll talk about, but it's also kind of talking about, you know, the grim aspect of lifespan averages and actuarial tables and where they came from, why they exist and how in many cases it's tied to money, the value per statistical life, which measures the cost benefit analysis in areas like regulation of pollution or compensation for workplace accidents. So how much is this individual person worth and how much should they be paid based on how much they're worth, as well as tables that are looking at the value of statistical life for seniors. So in that case, it might have an impact on insurance because as you age, you may need to spend more money on different health aspects, which of course is going to cost more money, which is why that might have an impact on your health insurance rate. And all of that stuff is really, in my opinion, I think probably the opinion of a lot of people. Awfully grim, awfully callous and a little bit it's a place I don't like looking, I guess I'll say. It's like, I don't want to think about this with humanity. The death clock, though, $40 a year. And what it does is while it provides a second by second countdown to your expected day of death, it also suggests lifestyle changes that you can make to, you know, kind of keep that, to push that date out a little bit, maybe by a few seconds, you know, switch to more beans, add more beans in your diet and you'll add 30 seconds to the end of your life. What do you think about this, Abrar? Are you at all curious to calculate your death date?

Abrar Elhity (19:58)

Absolutely not. This would make me spiral. So I'm staying far, far away from this. I think it's also interesting too, because it's like, even if you were to calculate when it's going to happen, what if you get hit by a bus tomorrow? And so I'm like, I can't even. There's no point in even bothering of when this will assume I'm going to pass away. But it's interesting how much people are into this. I mean, I guess it's not surprising. We're kind of fascinated by death as a society, I feel like. But it's interesting to see this use of AI, which it's also fascinating that it can provide kind of maybe seemingly somewhat accurate estimate as to what factors will play into how long you'll live. But the financial aspects that you mentioned, all those financial considerations, wow, that really makes life seem so pointless.

Micah Sargent (20:56)

I know. This is the stuff I have to bring to my therapist.

Abrar Elhity (21:00)

I know.

Micah Sargent (21:00)

I was reading this article and now I'm thinking about the value of my life and it's so much less that, yeah, I don't like this stuff.

Abrar Elhity (21:08)

No, absolutely not. Are you tempted to find out.

Micah Sargent (21:16)

Here's the thing. I really. I. I'm. I'm of two minds. There's the larger of my two minds, I guess. I don't know, the one that's louder. The louder of my two minds is on your side and saying this is just going to make you spiral. Yeah. But there's that smaller, quieter mind that can be so convincing at times that really wants me to do it. Mostly because. But I don't want to pay $40.

Abrar Elhity (21:45)

Yes. For a freestyle.

Micah Sargent (21:47)

If it would. I don' I don't.

Scott Stein (21:49)

Yeah.

Micah Sargent (21:49)

I don't know how it would get me to do it because ultimately it's like you said, you could get hit by a bus tomorrow.

Abrar Elhity (21:57)

Yeah.

Micah Sargent (21:57)

And I already have. Now I'm. Now I'm getting upset because I already have a problem. There, There's. There are going to be some statisticians out there that are like going to get upset at me for saying this, but I already have a problem with statistics in general because you can say that there's, you know, a 0.004% chance that chicken will fall off of a chicken truck and lay an egg that perfectly rolls underneath the wheel of the tire of your car. And because of the angle, it causes the eggshell to somehow stick into the tire, which causes the tire to pop, which sends you off the side of the road. And yes, there may be a 0.0004% chance of that happening could be the person that's that 0.0004% chance of being. And so it could still. It doesn't matter how rare it is that it happens. If it happens, then it could happen. That's where I'm like, I mean, sure, we've got odds, but you could be the one that the odds are against or for, depending on what you're talking about. I don't do the lottery, just so you know. This would make you think that I do gambling and all that stuff. I don't, but, but I still am like, what's the point of talking about percentage chance if it could still be you that that happens to anyway? So this, in that way, I'm like, you could tell me I'm going to die at 94 because I have a high fiber diet and I stand up out of my chair regularly, but that doesn't mean that the chicken won't lay the egg that sends me off the road into a pit or that somehow a tsunami from California reaches its way to Portland and you know, I go under. Yeah, it's just, I don't know. Here's the thing. The value this provides is maybe getting people to make healthier choices.

Joseph Cox (24:08)

Right.

Micah Sargent (24:09)

And so if your way of motivating yourself to make healthier choices is to remind yourself that you will die one day and you can maybe, maybe prolong that by doing this out of the other, then I think that's, that's a positive. Whether you need to pay $40 to, you know, why don't you just, just, just make a fake death clock? I'm gonna die at 87. And if I do these things that are recommended, then I'm gonna live till 90 or something. Yeah, that, that might be enough. I don't know.

Abrar Elhity (24:48)

Absolutely. And I think you know the value. And to go off of what you're saying here in terms of how this can be helpful for people from a health perspective, maybe having like a vague idea of, you know, if you don't eat healthier, you're not going to live longer. Maybe that's too vague for people. Maybe knowing a date and knowing an age is what really scares people into, you know, getting their health in check. Gosh, I don't want to die that early. Let me actually get serious about my health. So perhaps that like, ominous factor can actually lead to some good. But not for me, for somebody else.

Micah Sargent (25:26)

Well, yeah, now that I think about it, psychologically speaking, I can't remember now which book it was. I think I wish I could remember for sure, but I interviewed an author a while back and I think it was about the end times or something like that. And the author basically shared a bunch of different end time scenarios and then talked about different ways to avoid those end time scenarios, many of them human cost. And at the root of the issue with all of it, with much of it, is the fact that we as human beings are psychologically unequipped, on average, to not only put ourselves in the shoes of other people, empathy is a learned skill, but also put ourselves in the shoes of ourselves in the future. We are very, we aren't even good at that. It's why people procrastinate, because me later will handle that. And then you later is like, why did you make me? It's why we do so much of that. And so if me right now is not inconvenienced, me in the future will take care of it and that. Because that sort of compounds whenever it's someone else. So, you know, my. You can talk all you want about like, you know, one's progeny living in the future in a world where the earth is crumbling to dust. You can say that you feel that. And people who have learned and earned their empathy due to a certain extent, but on the whole, we're just not very, we're not very good at it. And so this, what you're talking about there, I think that you're right, this does make you reconcile a little bit and pay more attention to future you or I guess the loss of future you, to say I should make these healthier changes right now because it's more real at that point. And we often as human beings do need object lessons because looking at our history as humans, you know, the thousands on thousands of years that we've existed as modern Homo sapiens, the way that so much of, of who we are today and what we are today has come about is by way of object lessons. You go and you eat the berries on the bush and it kills your friend Slok and Slok is dead. And so now you don't eat those berries on the bush. And you know, and you tell your tribe, you should not eat those berries. We're going to go over here and try these and those ones don't make you feel. And so we are just like programmed to learn that way. And I know we're getting really deep into this, but it's just, it's kind of. You really set it off there with that, that point of. Yeah, I think sometimes we do have to have that very real thing to grasp onto. So who knows, Maybe this is just secretly done by somebody who's like, trying to better humanity, right, by you know, putting forth this idea that, you know, just make. Not only it would be great if it's like, like if you make healthier choices, but also you be nice to someone out in the world today that will help you live longer.

Abrar Elhity (29:00)

There we go. We'd solve everything. Everything would be. Thanks. Well, listen, if that quieter voice in your brain wins and you end up doing this, please keep us posted.

Micah Sargent (29:09)

Oh, absolutely. I will definitely let you know. Yeah, maybe I'm trying to think of how I can raise $40. I could sell a few crochet projects. I want to thank you so much for taking the time to join us today. It's always a pleasure to have you on the show. I hope you have a lovely rest of your December. We'll see you again in January. In the meantime, if folks want to stay up to date with what you're doing, where should they go to do so?

Abrar Elhity (29:41)

Yeah, you can follow me on x alhiti_3 and on Instagram abrahiti. And because we talked about TikTok, I'm also on TikTok @abraral heati. And thank you so much for having me, Micah.

Micah Sargent (29:51)

Yeah. All right, well, we'll see you later. Thank you.

Abrar Elhity (29:54)

Thank you.

Micah Sargent (29:56)

All righty, folks, we're going to take a quick break before we come back with our next piece. It's an interview with Scott Stein of cnet. But I want to tell you about Experts Exchange, who are bringing you this episode of Tech News Weekly. You out there can join a network of trustworthy and talented tech professionals to get industry insights and advice from people who are actually using the products in your stack instead of paying for expensive enterprise level tech support. As the tech community for people tired of the AI sellout, Experts Exchange is ready to help carry the fight for the future of human intelligence. With Experts Exchange, it will give you access to professionals in more than 400 different fields, including programming, Microsoft, DevOps and more. And unlike other places where I've gone at times and regretted asking a question, not so at Experts Exchange, duplicate questions are encouraged. Their contributors are tech junkies who love graciously answering all questions. One member said, I've never had GPT stop and ask me a question before. That happens on Experts Exchange all the time. They're proudly committed to fostering a community where human collaboration is fundamental. Their expert directory is full of experts to help you find what you need, including Rodney Barnhart VMware v. Expert and a Twit and Security now listener and even Cisco design professionals, executive IT directors and more. Other platforms betray their contributors by selling their content to train AI models. But at Experts Exchange, your privacy it isn't for sale. They stand against the betrayal of contributors worldwide have never and will never sell your data, your content or your likeness. They block and strictly prohibit AI companies from scraping content from their site to train their LLMs. And their moderators strictly forbid the direct use of LLM content in their threads. The supreme reward for attaining expertise is the fulfillment of passing your knowledge on to help someone in need. Experts deserve a place where they can confidently share their knowledge without worrying about a corporation stealing it to increase shareholder value. And humanity deserves a safe haven from AI. So join experts exchange today and get 90 days free. And this is with no credit card required. If you have a question that you've been waiting to ask, there's no reason to not go and do this. And I think what's going to happen is you'll go there, you'll ask a question, you'll realize how helpful it is, you'll start asking more questions because there's no credit card required. Visit e.comTwit to learn more. That's E e.comTwit thank you experts Exchange for sponsoring this week's episode of Tech News Weekly. All righty, we are back from the break and now it's time for my interview earlier this morning with Scott Stein. All righty, it is time for an interview I am looking forward to. In the past we had Scott Stein of CNET on to talk about Meta's Orion project. Well, Scott is back and I am so excited to have you here. Hi Scott. Hey.

Scott Stein (33:09)

Good to be on.

Micah Sargent (33:10)

Yeah, good to get you here. So you are currently rocking some interesting glasses and I was hoping that you could tell us before we even get into the questions, what's on your face? Right.

Scott Stein (33:26)

This is the year of wearing all sorts of glasses and I thought I'd just wear them on because I have an early version here that I'm trying out. These are the xreal One glasses which are coming out this December and I'm actually connecting them to the MacBook right now. So I see you as I'm zooming, it's basically casting a monitor and I can basically, if I turn my head, see this like curved ultra wide monitor for the Mac. And they're display glasses but they're adding things that are starting to feel more like ar and that's what's interesting to me is that that we're seeing this idea of AR glasses kind of already emerging in bits and pieces.

Micah Sargent (34:05)

Absolutely. So yeah, let's talk about what are the kind of key advancements in the Xreal 1 and 1 Pro glasses compared to the previous models that were on offer. Now that it's got that X1 chip especially.

Scott Stein (34:21)

Yeah. So yeah, there's a built in custom chip and I can also take these off and see you in the actual with glasses on and unplug them. But they, you know, they're tethered and they still have this design which is like these angled prism lenses. They definitely don't look like regular glasses, but from the outside they can. They're perched over my glasses now because there's no prescription lens inserts yet because they're pre release. But there's a chip on board that Xreal made that does a 3. If you follow the industry, it's 3 degree of freedom, position tracking. It sounds like a small thing, but it's actually kind of a big thing. It means that normally you'd see a display in front of your face like a floating TV and it would move when your head moves, like glued to your face. Now it'll anchor itself in one place. If I turn my head, it'll stay there. For TV and movies, I don't think it's that big a deal. But for working on your computer doing something like that, I find it very useful because I don't want my computer pinned to my face as I move. But there's a new ultrawide mode that's similar to what the Vision Pro is getting that puts this whole ultra wide monitor out there. You can only see a part of it at a time. But it does mean that I can basically cast my MacBook with no additional software. And I found that was kind of a really interesting magic trick.

Micah Sargent (35:42)

Absolutely. Now how does this kind of user experience differ from traditional VR headsets? Because you kind of talking about how it's a little bit in the middle there. Like that virtual monitor is like gaming. Can you game on this thing and count on the frame rate being where you need it to be?

Scott Stein (36:01)

Yeah. So I mean it's a full plugin, it's a 1080p display, micro OLED and it is a full USB connected display. If you plug it into things that allow USB C video output. The Nintendo Switch doesn't do that yet. Directly from the Switch, I say yeah, because there is a console supposed to be coming next year. Who knows if they'll have that Steam Deck, MacBooks, PCs, your iPhone, USB, C Android. It works and it just treats it like a display, but it'll mirror it in the same vertical or whatever formats that your devices have. If you play movies, it'll go into a widescreen. Similar if you mirror from your phone and do that to a monitor. What I think is interesting is that it's not VR. It's really display glasses with enhanced audio. But when you use Vision Pro. When I use Vision Pro, I'm really using it a lot of the time to watch movies and cast monitors from my Mac. Even though it can do all these other things, I think its killer apps are really those. And what's interesting is that the xreal One is doing some of that stuff now. Well enough that I think I would use it and take it with me somewhere. The video quality looks good enough and it's pretty small.

Micah Sargent (37:16)

Yeah, that's the thing, that's what really stood out to me is how small the device is on the face. I had a lot of discomfort with Vision Pro, and so something like that, that just feels a little bit lighter would, in theory, work better. Now, you mentioned a little bit about the field of view. Let's Talk about what Xreal's founder is hoping to achieve. Achieve 70 to 80 degree field of view. What would that mean? What's the significance of that improvement? And what are they working on to get to that point?

Scott Stein (37:49)

Yeah, it's a bit of a mystery how they'll get to that point, but I got to talk with Chishu, who's the CEO and founder of xreal, in my story with cnet and in a video. And it was really interesting because we were talking about Meta's Orion glasses and other things in the land landscape. Field of view is important because it's basically like letterboxing your reality. You know, if you're, you know, you're used to seeing a whole world with all sorts of stuff around you. 180 degrees VR is like a scuba mask. So it's about like 90 degrees, maybe 110 degrees in that zone. And AR has been more narrow, so it's, you know, it's been as low as 40 degrees. Now it's getting out into 50 and 57, which is kind of feels more like this, but it's good enough for video. And the bigger you get, the more things you can fit around you. And it doesn't feel, you know, like in the days of the first magic leap in Hololens, you feel like you were kind of fitting this little window and moving around until the cool ghost appeared in your world through the little window. And that window is getting bigger and bigger. So Chi was saying that the goal and they are planning to get up to into the 70 to 80 degree field of view range. I mean Meta Orion is 70 degree field of view with a very custom and expensive technology, you know, special lens material and it's not something that's at all ready for consumers yet. But it's also fully transparent and you know, it's all built into this thin lens. But maybe there'll be ways through these kind of prism lenses to do things like that and kind of bridge the gap for displays. But I think he agreed and I think Meta agrees that 70 to 80 is really kind of where you'd want to be to get these to be really, really useful. So it's still kind of a stepping stone.

Micah Sargent (39:38)

We'll be back with the rest of Scott Stein's interview in just a moment, but I want to take a quick break to tell you about US Cloud, who are bringing you this episode of Tech News Weekly. US Cloud is the number one Microsoft unified support replacement US Cloud is the global leader in third party Microsoft enterprise support support. Supporting 50 of the Fortune 500 and switching to US Cloud can save your business 30% to 50% on a true and comparable replacement for Microsoft Unified Support. You know how much money you're spending on Microsoft Unified Support and you know how often they're getting back to you. U.S. cloud is going to be the solution that you need. IT supports the entire Microsoft stack and it does so 24 7, 365. Respect responds faster and resolves tickets quicker for clients all around the world. And this is the best part. You always talk to real humans. Check out the proven track record for US cloud expert level engineers with an average of 14.9 years of experience. And that's for both break fix and DSE 100% domestic teams so your data never leaves the US financially backed SLAs on response time and initial ticket response averages under 4 minutes. In 2023, 94% of US Cloud's clients reported saving 1/3 or more when switching from Microsoft unified support to US Cloud. From Fortune 500 companies and large health systems to major financial institutions and federal agencies, U.S. cloud ensures that vital Microsoft systems are working for more than 6 million users globally every day. Big brands trust US Cloud, including Caterpillar, HP, Aflac, Dun and Bradstreet, Under Armour and KeyBank. Even the IT folks at Gartner have chosen US Cloud for their Microsoft support needs, a Director of Information Technology says. And within an hour US Cloud responded with, I want to say four engineers. So not only did they bring the right guys to the call, but they brought the cavalry. I just felt like, wow, that was amazing. That was unlike anything I had experienced with Microsoft in my eight years of being with Premier. We made the right choice. So when it comes to compliance, no one gets it more than US Cloud, ISO, GDPR and esg. Compliance are not just regulatory requirements, but actual strategic imperatives that drive operational efficiency, legal compliance, risk management and corporate reputation. These standards foster trust and loyalty among customers and stakeholders, attract investment, and ensure long term sustainability and success in a competitive global market. Visit uscloud.com and book a call today to find out how much your team can save. That's uscloud.com to book a call today and get faster Microsoft support for less. Thank you US Cloud, for sponsoring this week's episode of Tech News Weekly. Now let's head back to that interview. Now another thing that I noticed and you talk about USB C connectivity to treat it as if it's a display, but that also means that the device is tethered. Is there a future for xreal where they want to move past having a tethered device? Are they trying to let you kind of roam freely about the cabin, so to speak?

Scott Stein (42:57)

Definitely. I mean that's the goal. I think it's interesting because the tether is annoying. It does kind of feel though sometimes like you know, old fashioned headphones and so if you're playing a movie on the go it doesn't feel awful. But you do have to bring out that cord. I think there's probably a couple of things at play. One might be video playback reliability, but there's already things that can do that wirelessly. But it's battery life too. You know, right now meta ray bands which just do audio and camera last maybe half a day when I wear them. And you know the snap spectacles which are full 3D AR that are for developers last 45 minutes, you know, it's, it's nothing and that's why they're not for everyday people. So I think that the moment and where you know where the battery goes, the moment you put battery on this at the moment I would imagine the battery life would be really short or you'd have to have a battery battery pack. Plus they're putting like a new chip in here so there's more processing on these. You know there's just a lot going on. I it sounded like for now. And I would expect that a lot of these glasses that come out will probably have tethers. It's a total guess. But you know, if Apple's doing a next gen vision device that connects with your computer and phone and other things, I can't see how that will work work without a tether or a big honking battery pack and at least you know. So I think, I think we're going to kind of see that in between zone and. But I think it's a good reality check. Talking with xreal, I think about some of the things that can happen now that are surprisingly good and some of the things like they're dabbling in AI next or you know, they want to with this plug in camera module which is what a lot of glasses make are doing.

Micah Sargent (44:44)

Yeah, in fact that's what I was hoping to talk about or what I'm hoping to talk about next is you know, AI, that's the big buzzword and it seems like if you've got a product, you better have AI packed in there somewhere. So what are these snap in cameras? What is their future AI integration plan? How is that going to be involved in this?

Scott Stein (45:04)

It's an unknown as far as integration plan but you know, it is a module. It's a little, you know, it's a little camera can do like 1080p or 12 megapixel, plugs right in the nose bridge and looks pretty innocuous. But you know, besides photo and video, it is meant to be used for AI purposes. And right now, you know, if you look at some of the early products that are doing that, particularly the meta Ray Bans, a lot of that is as multimodal AI that everybody's talking about. It's you know, using the camera as well as the audio inputs. So it could take a photo, analyze the photo, translate something, tell you what something is. I find that when I use that with Ray Bans it's very hit and miss and I kind of forget about the future and move on. But it's definitely an experimental landscape where you know, I think we're at a point now definitely with AI where everybody's trying to wedge AI in, in so many ways to try to make it work for people. And you know, this multimodal stuff is another part of that. Apple's going to have camera based visual intelligence on the iPhone. Google has done that on Lens. And so I think that they're, they're putting their foot in the door at that. But my question is what platforms and what systems will work with that AI potential. X Rail is making the hardware, you know, but what about all the software and platforms out there?

Micah Sargent (46:20)

Yeah, yeah, that's. It's interesting. You know, I wonder how some of the behind the scenes stuff with AI, how that can help with battery life, how that can help with performance as opposed to the flashy features that are more about the consumer in the end. Now, the last thing I'll ask you, because I think it's the big question, so I made everybody wait till the end, is how do these glasses compare and position themselves in the landscape of AR and mixed reality and VR devices that are out there, like the Apple Vision Pro Meta's Orion glasses. You talked a little bit about it throughout the piece, but throughout the piece and also throughout our interview. But overall, having had a chance with Meta, Orion having had a chance. Now it sounds like a lot of time with the Vision Pro. Where does this stack up and can you see this fitting into your day to day?

Scott Stein (47:16)

Well, it's kind of like VR headsets and mixed reality. VR headsets have kind of hit a little bit of a wall in the sense of their size and their battery life. They're advancing, but they're pretty big but impressive for what they do. They last about two or three hours, usually more like two on a charge. That's not enough for anything like everyday use. And then you're seeing this shift where everybody ambitiously for years has wanted to go to glasses and it's pretty darn tough. You're seeing these little stabs at it through companies chipping away in different directions. And I think that the idea is how much can you do? Or is it going to be something more gradual? The stuff I've seen recently, they're much more limited. These are just display things compared to a VR headset. But the video quality is good enough that I'd want to watch movies in it. It feels richer, something that I still don't really feel all the time, especially with the earlier Quest headsets. More so with Quest 3. I feel it's better. Vision Pro looks great for movies. This looks pretty good for movies. I like it. But all the rest of the stuff you're looking at this evolutionary path, like Snap Spectacles are more advanced and do 3D stuff, but they're just a developer kit for now and they're very experimental. And then Orion is not even a developer kit. It's like a little moonshot experiment to say here's the prototype we built. Technically this can be done, but no one's getting their hands on it yet. I think that's almost like the path over the next maybe three years or four years to where things are going to go.

Micah Sargent (48:55)

Absolutely. Well, Scott, I want to thank you so much for taking the time to join me this morning to talk about your time with xreal's glasses. As always, it's a pleasure to have you on. If people would like to follow along with working you're doing, where should they go to do that?

Scott Stein (49:11)

You can follow me on bluesky, which is my frequent spot now. And you can also check me out at CNET all the time where I'm there writing stuff and doing all sorts of things.

Micah Sargent (49:24)

Absolutely. Thank you so much and we'll see you again soon. Bye bye.

Scott Stein (49:27)

Yeah, thanks.

Micah Sargent (49:29)

All right, thank you Scott, for joining us. Up next, I've got Joseph Cox of 404 Media here, but we'll take a quick break so I can tell you about 1Password who are bringing you this episode of Tech News Weekly. A quick question for you. Do your end users always work on company owned devices and IT approved apps? Yeah, I didn't think so. So how in the world do you keep your company's data safe when it's sitting on all those unmanaged apps and devices? Well, 1Password has an answer to this question. It's called extended access management. 1Password Extended access management helps you secure every sign in for every app on every device because it solves the problems that traditional IAM and MDM just can't touch. There are all of these places where your users or your employees might be interacting with the system. The IT approved apps, the company owned devices, the managed employee identities, those are are all taken care of. But there are also the places the unmanaged devices, the shadow IT apps, the non employee identities like contractors where you have issues because most security tools only work on those company owned devices. But a lot of the security problems they take place with the shadow IT apps and the non employee identities, the unmanaged devices. Well one Password Extended Access Management is the first security solution that brings all of these unmanaged devices, apps and identities under your control. It ensures that every user credential is strong and protected, every device is known and healthy and every app is visible. It's security for the way we work today and it's now generally available to companies with Okta and Microsoft Entra and in beta for Google Workspace customers. Check it out@1Password.com twit that's 1p a s s w o r d.com twit and we thank 1Password for sponsoring this week's episode of Tech News Weekly. All right, we are back from the break, and that means it is time to talk to Joseph Cox of 404 Media. Welcome back to the show, Joseph.

Joseph Cox (51:30)

Thank you so much for having me.

Micah Sargent (51:31)

Yeah, pleasure to have you here. I was hoping that you could start by telling our listeners about the company that you were talking about in this piece, Ventel. What is it and what does it do?

Joseph Cox (51:44)

Sure. So Ventel is part of this massive location data industry, right, where they will harvest location data from ordinary apps installed on your phone. Maybe it's a weather app, maybe it's a sat nav or something like that. And I'm actually looking into some other ones at the moment as well. And Ventel gets all of that location data from the different app providers, it bundles it up, it cleans it, and then it basically sells it to the government. And the government is able to rifle through that without a warrant. And what makes Ventel particularly interesting, because as I said, there are a lot of companies in the space, is that Ventel provides the underlying data not just for its own tool, but for other ones that then sell to the government as well. So the way I see it is that Ventel is something of a beating heart of the location data surveillance industry.

Micah Sargent (52:34)

Wow, okay, that's interesting. Then selling it to the government, then a government organization is banning Ventel. Can you explain the significance of the FTC banning it from selling sensitive location data?

Joseph Cox (52:50)

Yeah, it is funny because there's a lot of different arms of the government going on here. Right. So I should just preface with when I say Ventel selling data to the government, that includes Immigration and Customs Enforcement, ICE, includes Customs and Border Protection, cbp, the Secret Service as well the DEA and the FBI have also purchased, if not Ventil, data stuff that's very, very similar to it. Now, the news is that the FTC has basically banned Ventel and its sister company, or parent company, I should say Gravy analytics, actually gathered the data. And what the FTC is saying is that, hey, you, Ventel, you have to stop collecting, selling, transferring sensitive location data and you have to delete all historical location data. And I've read over that part of the complaint and the action several times, and I still can't quite believe that second part because you're asking a surveillance contractor to basically destroy your entire products. And we're going to see what the impact of that is later. And I'm sure we'll get into a little bit here, but it's A massive demand and action from the ftc.

Micah Sargent (54:00)

Yeah, that kind of blows my mind a little bit in terms of is that not wiping out an entire company? I mean, how. So how does the FTC's order address concerns about data being used to track visitor or visits to sensitive locations in particular, is that kind of, I guess, more. I'm wondering, do we know what caused this in the first place? Like, why did the FTC suddenly go, okay, now we're taking care of this and we're not just saying, stop doing it, we're saying stop doing it and get rid of everything you already have.

Joseph Cox (54:33)

Yeah. So this is sort of the latest and probably the most significant action action in a pretty increasingly long line of actions against location data companies. Now, a while ago, the FTC also acted against a company called X Mode, which I revealed was getting location data from a Muslim prayer app. And then its customers included US Military contractors, which is obviously a pretty controversial combination, monitoring people who are probably going to mosques and selling it potentially to the US Military. The FTC told that company, you have to stop collecting data about sensitive locations such as places of worship and healthcare facilities, which presumably would include abortion clinics, that sort of thing. So the FTC is also doing that to Ventel and saying that sensitive data, you can't do that. But I've never seen a list quite this long. There's a lot more sensitive locations in there. There are homeless shelters, domestic abuse survivors shelters, and I think very interestingly for the incoming Trump administration, shelters that deal with refugees or immigrants as well. And they're saying you can't have that data either. Even schools are also in there, which they found particularly interesting. So it's the continuation of those enforcement against different location data companies. But I think this is broader, wider, and potentially more significant as well. And I. We will get into this, I'm sure, but I should just preface straight away, they have included an exemption for, quote, national security and law enforcement. We have to wait to see what that actually means. Does that undermine the entire order or is there certain national security use cases you can still use the data for? We'll have to wait and see on them.

Micah Sargent (56:18)

Yeah. Now, I guess then to double down on this or to clarify even a little bit more, more, that means that what the FTC is saying is we've got a list of sensitive locations that you can no longer collect this data for, but you, as a company who does location data tracking and collecting, can still keep tracking grocery store visits and I don't know dent well, maybe not even dentist Office visits, but whatever else is left there, I know, visits to a park, those are still allowed to be tracked.

Joseph Cox (56:52)

Yes, broadly speaking, at least in the way that the order is written. And the way I'm interpreting, and I think other journalists are as well, is that they can still do their business once they delete the data and they don't do those sensitive locations. But, I mean, the crucial part is that gravy, again, the company that's related to Ventel, they don't sell it to the government. They do kind of what you're suggesting, which is, well, footfall traffic to McDonald's or Burger King or whatever, and you want to see how many people went there. The FTC is generally okay with that if they got proper consent from the people they're getting data from, which the complaint alleges they didn't. Because you open up a normal app and there's one in there, the FTC doesn't name the app, but you can look at it. And the privacy policy, the disclaimer doesn't say, by the way, we're collecting your location data and we may sell it to the government. Obviously, they're not going to say that. The FTC takes serious issue with that.

Micah Sargent (57:47)

Yeah. Now, on the, on the flip side of this, you may have some folks who would say, okay, this data is being used by multiple US Government agencies who need it for this, that and the other. Does this have an impact on government surveillance practices, like a real impact, or is it just the case that this is one in, you know, hundreds of companies that the government can buy dislocation data from?

Joseph Cox (58:17)

It could have an impact on US Government surveillance operations, and we will see. Again, sort of with that carve out for the national security and law enforcement, we'll have to see how effective that is. But I think at minimum, that at least brings up the conversation of, well, maybe they should get a warrant for this. And at the moment, the Secret Service, as I've covered a bunch and other parts of DHS I mentioned, they've been querying this data without getting a court order, a subpoena, or a search warrant. You just log in and you look up locations. I've actually been leaked videos of one of the tools that use this data. And we saw, for example, the people who used it and leaked to us, they looked up phones at an abortion clinic, and you could just see phones crossing straight state lines. No warrant, nothing. You just do it with a few clicks of your mouse and that's it. Now, maybe, maybe the abortion example is a bad case. But let's say there's the recent shooting, right, of the UnitedHealth CEO in New York. Maybe the FBI or other law enforcement agencies will want to use this data or similar to maybe find out where a mobile phone went. Okay, sure, we can debate about that. I think everybody could probably agree they should probably get a warrant for that. Then there would be some sort of probable cause and some sort of check and balance in place case. And maybe if the data still continues to be used by various government authorities, perhaps they will now have to get a warrant as well. And we'll just have to see on that.

Micah Sargent (59:46)

Yeah. Now we talked a little bit about this before. The big problem here being informed consent for using consumer data. Is this not kind of a clear and present example that there's a lot of stuff happening behind the scenes that's a little bit obscured without user consent involved?

Joseph Cox (60:12)

Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, but it's even worse than that. And I'm sure when you first take the user of the app, they download the shopping app or whatever, as I said, the privacy policy is not clear. That's not informed consent there. But I've even spoken to some of the people who make the apps who then sell the location data and even they don't know that they're actually selling it to the government. It's like an entire series of pinky promises and sort of people not really asking the correct questions. So even the people collecting their data or even the people making the apps to get that, they don't even know. So how could you ever expect users to be able to provide informed consent when the app developer doesn't even know? It's just a series of people not really paying attention to what's going on.

Micah Sargent (60:54)

And then I guess I would ask too, because we're seeing FTC act against mobile Walla. Is this a trend of focusing on this that you've seen now for a while, or has this just started enacting and do you think we're going to see a shift away from focusing on ruling against and providing regulation for these data brokerage firms?

Joseph Cox (61:20)

So this is the fourth or the fifth in a very, very quick succession over the past 12, 18 months, something like that. You bring up the Mobile Walla case and what they did was that they basically surveilled Black Lives Matter protesters and then essentially boasted about it in marketing material. What makes that action much more, well, more interesting in some respects is that it was telling mobile Waller, you cannot collect data from the real time bidding process now. And whereas Ventel got it from apps installed on people's phone phones. Mobile Waller got it at least in part from the advertisements that appear in your apps. So maybe you're playing a game like Candy Crush. I'm not saying it's specifically Candy Crush, but something like that, and you get those very weird spammy adverts inside the mobile game. Those can potentially get your location data in such a way that there's all of these companies vying to get your attention. And the FTC basically said you have to cut that out. And that could be hugely significant because other companies also do that sort of surveillance as well. And if the FTC is saying you can't even do that type of surveillance at all, that could impact other companies as well.

Micah Sargent (62:29)

Wow. And then I guess the last question is, as you foresee it, with the companies that have been banned up to this point and what has happened with them? What challenges arise in enforcing these bans, ensuring compliance, given that this is kind of a wide reaching part of the industry and also is one that I think not enough people are paying attention to?

Joseph Cox (62:54)

Yeah, I mean, I think it's probably the FTC can obviously only really act against U.S. companies. Right. And we live thankfully in the age of the open Internet and the open World Wide Web, where you can download software from all different sorts of countries and jurisdictions. That of course is a double, double edged sword where you could be downloading a Chinese or a Russian or Taiwanese, it doesn't matter. You know, just some sort of app from a country the FTC does not have any sort of power over. Well, then they could collect the data, sell it to a company who could then still sell it to US law enforcement anyway. It's very much a whack a mole situation. I think it'd be unfair to expect the FTC to entirely solve the problem, but it seems to be taking steps where it can do them and it could be significant.

Micah Sargent (63:39)

Wow. Well, I want to thank you so much for always shining a light on this important area. Of course people can head over to 404 Media Co to keep up. Is there anywhere else they should look to stay up with what you're doing?

Joseph Cox (63:54)

Definitely. Check out the 404 Media podcast. Just search for that in your podcast app of choice. And we talk about our own stories every single week where you live. Literally can't read them anywhere else. So if you don't want to read, you can listen instead.

Micah Sargent (64:06)

Nice. Thank you so much, Joseph. We appreciate it.

Joseph Cox (64:09)

Thank you.

Micah Sargent (64:10)

All righty. That is going to bring us to the end of this episode of Tech News Weekly. Our show publishes every Thursday at TWiT TV TNW. That's where you can go to subscribe to the show in audio and video formats. And of course I want to remind all of you out there about Club Twit. If you have yet to join the club, now's the time because we've got a limited time offer where you can get Club Twit free for two weeks so you can dip your toe in see if it's right for you. When you join the club, you will gain access to the ad free version of every single one of our shows. You gain access to the Twit plus bonus feed that has extra content you won't find anywhere else behind the scenes before the show. After the show, special club Twitter events get published there. Access to the members only Discord Server, a fun place to go to chat with your fellow Club Twit members and also those of us here at TWiT and also ask questions of our upcoming AMA guest later today, Emily Forllini and access to the video versions of our Club Twit exclusive shows. All of that is available to you as a member of Club TWiT. TWiT TV ClubTWiT$7 a month again with that two week free trial. And for those of you who are already members of Club Twit Twit TV Club Twit Slash Referral is the place you should go because by referring your friends and family and enemies to Club Twit, you will get free months of our membership. So be sure to check that out. And that's what you need to know about Club Twit. If you'd like to follow me online, I'm iconsurgent on many a social media network where you can head to Chihuahua Coffee, that's C H I H U A H U A Coffee where I've got links to the places I'm most active online. Be sure to check out iOS today and hands On Mac which publish later today. Although I think iOS today is already out, which is awesome. Hands On Tech which I record on Sundays where I take your tech questions and answer them and also do gadget reviews. And again tune in in just a couple of hours as we're recording the show live for Emily Forlini's ama. Looking forward to having a chat with her. Thanks so much and we'll catch you again next week for another episode of Tech News Weekly. Bye bye ATT Customers Switching to T Mobile has never been easy. Easier. We'll pay off your existing phone and.

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