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Tech News Weekly 390: Nintendo Switch 2: Initial Impressions
01:07:14
Is the Switch 2 a Must-Buy?
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- [00:00]
Micah Sargent
Coming up on Tech News Weekly, Scott Stein of CNET got a chance to try out the Nintendo Switch 2. He shares his first thoughts on the device after playing a whole heck of a lot of Mario Kart World. Then Amanda Silberling of TechCrunch stops by to talk about Reddit suing Anthropic for scraping a bunch of data. Afterward, we talk about how Amazon is working toward bringing humanoid robots to package delivery. Before we round things out with Christopher Lawley and tech YouTuber who will be at WWDC and gives us a preview of Apple's yearly developer conference. All of that coming up on Tech News Weekly.
- [00:39]
Scott Stein
Podcasts you love from people you trust.
- [00:43]
Micah Sargent
This is Tweet. This is Tech News Weekly Episode 390 with Amanda Silberling and me, Micah Sargent. Recorded Thursday, June 5, 2025 Nintendo Switch 2 Initial Impressions hello and welcome to Tech News Weekly, the show where every week we talk to and about the people making and breaking that tech news. We're kicking things off a little differently this week because we are kicking things off with an interview. Joining me to talk about some time spent with the Switch 2 is Scott Stein of CNET. Welcome back to the show, Scott.
- [01:23]
Amanda Silberling
Hey, thanks a lot. Thanks for having me again.
- [01:26]
Micah Sargent
Yeah, thank you for being here. I know you are being asked by everyone across the world about your impressions and thoughts about the Switch 2. So I am honored that you chose to take some time to join us today. You know, to kick things off you in writing this piece talk a lot about Mario Kart World as this was kind of the hands on you got to do spent hours with it, hands on time with the Switch 2 itself. For listeners who have yet to catch up, can you talk about the key takeaways about what is new in this generation, what makes it the Switch two as opposed to the Switch.
- [02:00]
Amanda Silberling
Yeah, so they did a lot of under the hood stuff which is different and starting with the chip, there's a new Nvidia chip inside and there's a lot of claims about AI upscaling and improving graphics. It can run 4K and higher refresh rates on a TV. The system itself has a 7.9-inch 1080p screen. It's LCD but it looks good. That can run higher refresh rates. You know the joy cons are redesigned so they have more rumble and they also magnetically snap on. But you know a lot of the stuff that's going on with this also it works with cameras in an interesting way which I'll get to in a sec. It can split your faces up and put it into the game in a way that's pretty clever. And it adds this game chat feature, which is a live onboard, you know, four to 12 player audiovideo chat thing. And those are the new things. But a lot of those potentials are still kind of unknown right now. We're right at the beginning. Nintendo has a couple of exclusive games, a lot of ports and updates to some games. And it feels a little more like a proier Switch than it does a completely new thing, kind of by design.
- [03:17]
Micah Sargent
Understood. Now you. You did mention, and I think this is one of the most interesting things leading up to it, we saw like a new button right on the controller and then we heard about game chat. You describe it as Nintendo's audio video hangout zone. How does it actually work in practice? And I think more importantly, how big a shift is this from Nintendo's previous approach to online multiplayer and online multiplayer conversation?
- [03:44]
Amanda Silberling
Yeah, Nintendo's always been pretty locked down on online stuff and it can be frustrating for people who are used to deeply online gaming life. They've gotten a lot better in the Switch years. A lot of that chat stuff was always offloaded to the Nintendo phone app. And I think people kind of found their own. You might have just done Twitch or something else if you wanted to chat. But now this is something that's built in and you have to connect through friend codes and invitations. So you have to still very deliberate thing where you're inviting people in and then inviting them into the chat. And it's pretty instant once you do that. It starts as audio. You can also add video if you have a camera. And it was pretty seamless in the demos we tried with Nintendo. I'm still getting on my feet with it now because we did not have early review units. We just picked them up on Wednesday. And you have to have other people to do game chat. Switch. Yeah, so. So we're just kind of getting our feet with that. But I think it's a good move. And what's interesting is that it is definitely designed to not have to be playing games together. It starts as just, hey, we're all chatting. Then you can do. You can connect with the games you're playing and play. But it starts as kind of like a party group. And I think that's pretty common. I mean, I know with my kids that's kind of how they're playing all the time. They start with a bunch of chats and they're talking with friends and then they play. And I think it probably is pretty generational because it's not, you know, it's not what I'm doing. But, you know, I don't know how flexible it's going to be and how frustrating that might be for people. But and also was interesting is when I set up Game Chat, it asked for my phone number to authenticate. So I'm not quite sure what that means because I didn't know that that would be part of it. And then, you know, does that mean that every person who's doing Game Chat needs a phone number? In which case, what does that mean for kids? Does it mean with. I mean, there are kid accounts and it might mean that the parent can then authorize it, but I don't know is the answer. But I just thought that was a little bit of a surprise.
- [05:47]
Micah Sargent
Yeah, that actually, that really surprises me as well, I suppose from the aspect of maybe making it easier to track and ban accounts that are offenders, that could be a good feature. But yeah, if you've got multiple. Because I'm immediately thinking about when I've needed to sign up and create accounts on any website and need to make more than one for whatever reason and work stuff or whatever. And the second account, I go to type in the phone number and it goes, well, you've already done that with a different one. So what if you have two kids? Is that going to all work with the same phone number? People going to have to get these. Yeah, that leaves a lot of questions to be answered. And before I ask you the next question, I want to follow up there. You said, I don't know. Could you give a little bit more context about the situation when it comes to the review of the Switch 2 across the entire industry of, you know, journalists who are writing about this thing?
- [06:43]
Amanda Silberling
It's been very on the fly, I think. We didn't get early review units. Apparently there were some software updates that were needed. We had early demos. We had a demo all the way back in April when they were doing the tour. And then we got another opportunity a week ago to spend more time with some of the key features and get explained some of the stuff that we did already know, but in a little more detail. But what we didn't know was how it would feel once you're setting it up and using it. So we're in a hot situation now where we're using it on the fly, just like a lot of people who bought them. I think it further reinforces to me that it's kind of a soft launch, you know, of the Switch 2. It's, I mean it's a big launch and then I think they're going to sell a ton of them. But this is something that Nintendo is going to be getting on its feet over the course of the next year because the Switch is already so popular that the Switch 2 doesn't need to be an instant hit and a lot of people are probably going to wait a bit. And so as features roll out as maybe kinks get worked out as more games arrive, I kind of expect it to be a rolling start. And that's how I'm treating it because right now, for instance, I don't know how fast it is to charge. I was just sharing this on Bluesky, but it seems like it's charging slowly and someone at the Verge chatted back and said, yeah, they saw the same thing. So all those questions, things that are important, we're learning. So it's going to take a good week. Usually I take a good week or more to review something ideally and you know, I'm on day, day one and a half at the moment while also.
- [08:22]
Micah Sargent
Coming on shows like this to talk about it. But pulling you away from the game time. One of the things you talked about, camera connected features something kind of interesting floating live video faces in Mario Kart world. I mean that's, that's. But it does seem technically ambitious. What did it actually feel like using that feature in real gameplay?
- [08:44]
Amanda Silberling
So it's kind of impressed upon me that the camera, which I was feeling pretty dismissive of with the first Nintendo Switch event because they were showing it mainly with Mario Party Jamboree with some fun but gimmicky things that felt like memories of PlayStation I, Microsoft Kinect, all these things from the past that you might remember. And I thought okay, you know, they're kind of doing that but I think they're going to be doing a lot more with it. First of all, it works with the game chat and it can actually do some interesting kind of green screening stuff of your, of your face and zooming in. But the, the camera enabled modes can, can separate out four different people at once from the same camera, which I am not, I'm not, I'm not studying camera tech all the time. But that felt like a magic trick even to me having seen a lot of this tech that felt pretty new. And I think it's a trick that the processor is able to pull off too so you'll pre identify which faces to keep in frame. I'm not sure how good the tracking actually is, but at least it Keeps it in frame. You may have to move your head in that zone, but the point is it will then cut out and live. Feed your faces into the game. So as you're driving the Mario Kart, you can look up ahead, and I can see, like, my colleague Ahmad, like, all the way up in first place, like I did yesterday. And it's live, you know, it's. It's like, slow refresh rate a little bit. But, you know, you can, like, taunt someone, make a face.
- [10:13]
Micah Sargent
That's super cool.
- [10:14]
Amanda Silberling
It is cool. It also lets you know. It lets you know where they are, too. Because there's a lot of times when you're playing these games like Smash Brothers or. Or Mario Kart, where you're kind of like, where are they again? And, yeah, who is who?
- [10:26]
Micah Sargent
Yeah, exactly. You're.
- [10:27]
Amanda Silberling
And now you're like, I'm going to get him. Or, no, I'm not. I'm going to lose. But I think it added a lot to the fun, and I think it really turned us into a, like, oh, maybe I need to get the camera. So at $55 for their camera, you can also plug in your own USB C cameras, apparently. But as someone was asking me, they wanted my thoughts on that, and I haven't gotten there yet, so I don't have a lot of cameras lying around. That is an interesting question, how. Well, you could just plug in your own. But I think it's a really interesting feature.
- [10:59]
Micah Sargent
Yeah, absolutely. And what I love about Nintendo is the novel ideas that the company seems to come up with that are quirky, but then you go, you know what? The delight makes the quirkiness just work. You did, speaking a little bit more about Mario Kart World, you did talk about playing with 24 people. That's pretty wild. What makes that scale of multiplayer so different and engaging versus playing against Princess Peach Robot?
- [11:34]
Amanda Silberling
It feels like Mad Max. You know, I felt. I felt like when we were playing with the 24 gaming journalists and tech journalists in that demo, and you're playing in, like, the tracks feel pretty wide open, too, to accommodate those number, because that. Because that gets pretty. You get pretty bottlenecked. It just reminded me of, like, Fury Road with, like, all the cars going at once, and you're like, things are firing. And you're like, how do I get out of this? I think it changes the strategy at that scale. But also, there's a new mode that I think really makes great use of it. That Knockout Tour, which a lot of people are saying is kind of like, could have Been the name. Someone said this online. That could have been the name for Mario Kart World. I think that's. That's true. Where kind of like a 99 player, you know, kind of survival mode. This is like every. Every race, every. Every one of the courses, they'll cut you off. You know, you have to make it to 18th place or out. You have to make it to whatever. Yeah. And it adds an extra pressure, but not like, oh, I have to get in first place right now, but I better not fall too far behind. And I think it works really well for that large, chaotic group. I think that's a really good fit because you lose track of. And also getting into first place feels almost impossible with 24 people. But you could try to be into, like a top group and then see how luck plays out. Once you get down to like eight, you know, maybe. Maybe you catch fire. So I think that's. I think it's great use of it. And I don't want to go back, you know, I. It hooked me on the large player size if I can find other people online.
- [13:18]
Micah Sargent
Yeah. Especially this early on. Right, Right. So let's round things out here. After two extended demo sessions, you still weren't fully convinced. You mentioned that the Switch 2 is a must buy right here at launch, that people need to run and go grab it as quickly as possible. What do you think would need to change or what software would need to arrive to tip the balance into the go grab it now situation? Or is it just a matter of let's just wait and see?
- [13:46]
Amanda Silberling
I think it's like, also, it depends on the audience too. I know a lot of people, I know a lot of dads that are running out and getting it anecdotally, you know, and I think, like, if you. If you have the money, if you have a large Switch library, if you like the idea of, again, the pro appeal, where it's kind of like the PS5 Pro, where you're like, oh, I have a huge library. And I think upgrading all these games in my library matters to me. But for somebody else who's thinking about spending money on this, it's significant amount of money. There are more expensive things in the world, but $450 is not cheap. And I think it needs to develop a bigger, unique library of games to justify that. They're leaning on the Switch library. But right now you just have Mario Kart World and this welcome tour little thing, which is cute, but should have been free, you know, but then again, it's only $10 if you. It's like a tour of the Switch 2 and its features and multiplayer. I think if you're really starved for extra things to show off, the mouse functions like, it's probably worth throwing $10 at it. But it feels like Nintendo was trying to just like, get a few extra bucks out of you. And I think, I think that some of the ports, the new ports, like Cyberpunk 2077, which I'm still going to be getting into playing, they show a lot of potential for where it could be like a Steam deck and play, you know, more things like PC and PS5 and Xbox. But we have to kind of see how that plays out, see how really capable it is. And I want more Nintendo whimsy, actually. So speaking of what, I think I was a little let down by the whimsy approach. I think I was expecting. Even I wrote a piece saying I was expecting even more wild cards. I know they come out of left field with things those may still come. Sometimes Nintendo gets burned on those. Like Labo, the cardboard folding thing they did a number of years ago, which I still think was genius, but was probably too ambitious. And then they have some other interesting accessories and things. And while the mouse feature is fun, it's a mouse. Like, you can use the Joycons mice, it's okay. And the camera thing is fun, but again, it doesn't work when you're in handheld mode, so that's like you have to be docked in front of a tv. I'm mostly a handheld player, so I really like Switch in that mode, so I think it needs. I'm looking forward to a little more. Also, indie game from Nintendo Whimsy. Nintendo often would take shots in different directions with games. You go, what the heck is this? And right now they're leaning on some pretty safe franchise moves. You know, Donkey Kong, Mario Kart, more of the things you like. I. I think they need to take some swings in, like, what is this? What is this, you know, crazy frog thing that, I don't know, like, you did surprise us. Like Pikmin, when Pikmin first came out around Animal Crossing, you know, I think that'll come. But it does seem like right now in 2025, Nintendo is looking for smooth continuity with what they've already got.
- [16:45]
Micah Sargent
Understood. Well, we will continue to watch what, what, what makes its way out there, as everybody at the same time is getting their hands on this. And as you mentioned, you know, kind of figuring out what people, what issues people are running into if people want to keep up with what you're doing. Where should they go to do that?
- [17:04]
Amanda Silberling
You can follow me on bluesky. I'm on there a ton. You can also check out all my stuff on CNET, which I am always on and on CNET's YouTube channel. And those are pretty good places to start.
- [17:16]
Micah Sargent
Beautiful. Thank you so much, Scott, for joining us today and I'm sure we'll see you again soon.
- [17:21]
Amanda Silberling
Thanks a lot. Yeah, I'll be playing.
- [17:24]
Micah Sargent
All right, let's take a quick break so I can tell you about StoryBlock, who is bringing you this episode of Tech News Weekly. I know you know the pain of legacy cmss. They always promise those enterprise grade features, but they deliver slow, clunky systems that need dev support for even making the tiniest update. I just want a period, not a semicolon. And when you're trying to move fast, it's a nightmare. Well, Storyblock changes that. Unlike those monolithic CMSs, Storyblock is headless. It's completely decoupling your backend from your front end. Developers can build in any framework, react, Astro Vue, etc. While marketers can use an intuitive visual editor to create and update content without filing dev tickets. Storyblocks scales Whether you're a freelancer or part of a global enterprise with a global cdn, AWS data centers in the us, Europe and Asia, it's built for performance at scale. Getting to talk to the folks at storyblock, it was cool. Kind of learning about how the system works and most importantly, just seeing that developers get to focus on the projects that they want to focus on because they're not having to help a marketer who just wants to add a link on a page. They get to do that very easily with the headless system. Those developers can then work on the more important projects on the back end. Storyblock it's enterprise ready. So this isn't just for small companies or anything like that. It's for everyone. With role based access control, enterprise SLAs and top tier security, that's all the stuff that Fortune 500s demand. One global e commerce giant switched to StoryBlock and cut content update cycles from weeks to ours. Another major brand empowered marketing to launch campaigns independently, freeing up devs for bigger projects. StoryBlock has this really cool API first approach so that way your content loads fast anywhere in the world. It's all addressable means. Better ux, higher engagement, improved SEO. With their real time visual editor, marketers see exactly what their content will look like before publishing. So you don't have that back and forth over Minor tweaks. Can you move that semicolon 2 pixels to the right? No, you don't have to worry about that. Devs get fewer interruptions, marketers get more autonomy. It's a win win. Everybody's happy if you're an agency. StoryBlock also offers multi client workspaces, flexible permissions, and seamless collaboration tools so you can manage multiple projects without disrupting development workflows. So regardless of whether you're a startup, you're an enterprise, or an agency that's juggling multiple clients, StoryBlock is going to give you the power and the flexibility that you need. You can try it today@storyblock.com and use code twit25. With that twit listeners get 20% off for the first three months on growth and growth plus plans. That's storyblock.com twitTV25 with code twit25 for 20% off the first three months on growth and Growth plus plans. And I'll spell that out for you. S T O R Y B L O K Twitter 25 with code TWIT25 Our thanks to StoryBlock for sponsoring this week's episode of Tech News Weekly. All righty. That means now it is time to introduce my co host. This week, it's Amanda Silberling of TechCrunch joining us. Welcome back, Amanda.
- [21:03]
Christopher Lawley
Hello. I am here.
- [21:06]
Micah Sargent
You are here. And as people have, you know, gotten used to, I think by this point, this is the part of the show where we have our stories of the week, the stories that we find interesting going on in the tech news cycle. And you want to talk about some interesting stuff going on with the, the, the, what is this, what is it called? What does Reddit call itself? The front page of the Internet. Right.
- [21:31]
Christopher Lawley
Front page of the Internet. Which could also be because Digg is coming back. So maybe Digg will be the front page of the Internet again, but that's a different story. That's not what we're talking about this week. We are talking about how Reddit sued Anthropic for allegedly not paying to license its data for training and still training its AI on it anyway. So this is especially interesting because Google and OpenAI both have deals with Reddit to use Reddit's content to train their AI on, which in some ways is a good idea because there's a lot of information on Reddit. But then sometimes, as we speculate, this may have been the cause. There are circumstances like when Google's AI tells people to put glue on pizza to get the cheese to stick better, which, that probably came from people trolling on Reddit. But in most circumstances, this is data that companies really want to use to train their AI is because they need lots and lots of things. But apparently Anthropic, according to Reddit, allegedly was scraping content from Reddit, despite Reddit's own guards against that content being scraped without permission. So now as, as the, the tech bloggers commonly say, the girlies are fighting.
- [22:57]
Micah Sargent
And here's what's interesting to me. If you have ever, and I'm sure you have, and I'm sure many people have, if you've ever went and tapped on a Reddit link, you know, the, the ridiculous process that is required to actually see what is on the other side of that Reddit link. If you don't have the Reddit app, or if you do have the Reddit app, but for some reason your phone is not detecting that you do, it's already really difficult to see Reddit threads and Reddit sort of responses as it stands. So I'm kind of impressed with Anthropic allegedly being able to scrape this data at all because it's so difficult to even view anything on Reddit these days because of the different protections that the company has in place. What's. I think that part of what we're seeing here in particular is a little bit of precedent setting that took place already with OpenAI and Google being able to, or rather I should say Reddit convincing OpenAI and Google to work on licensing deals and to make money that way. And once somebody realizes that what they have is valuable, then they're going to fiercely protect what they have to make sure that they can make money off of all of the platforms. I do wonder if up to this point there weren't those licensing deals in place. If Reddit would have as much of a case against Anthropic for again, allegedly scraping its data. Because you wouldn't necessarily know that this was something that you could ask for until you have made that possible. Yeah, there's a lot going on.
- [24:47]
Christopher Lawley
Yeah. Like I, I think a lot of these legal things, like people get confused about it, rightfully so, because a lot of it does not make a lot of sense because there just are not law that address. Like, what is copyright in the context of is using content as material for training an AI? Like, is that a violation of copyright in the same way that it would be if, like you wrote a book and then I was like, cool, I'm going to print out Micah's book. And sell it because the people that wrote the copyright laws were not prepared for AI. And then, I mean, this even comes up with like podcasting, where like a lot of newer media has this issue where it sort of just ends up with some companies sue each other and then they figure it out in court, and then whatever the courts decide kind of sets a precedent. But that creates a lot of issues with just how we know what you can and can't do. But in the world of the move fast and break things and get sued, they're just accepting that they'll try things and then maybe get sued.
- [25:56]
Micah Sargent
Yeah, that's. And that is the way of, of big tech. Absolutely. There's kind of a little bit of the detail here. Reddit claims that Anthropic continued to scrape the data from its platform more than 100,000 times. To be clear, it's not that it scraped like a hundred thousand pages. No, they say they scraped the platform more than 100,000 times after it had already attempted to block its bots in 2024. Now here's another aspect of this and I've talked about, I think we've actually talked about this on the show before. Robots Txt, there's this file that exists on many a web site, essentially on the server for the website that has instructions in it and sort of requests in it that say, hey, it's a sort of demure little text file. Please don't look at me. I just don't, I really don't want you looking at me. And the reason why robots Txt exists is because back in the early days of the Internet, what would happen is somebody's random blog somewhere that had very little bandwidth, very little sort of data viewing ability, would get indexed by a search engine and then would get hit, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, over and over and over and over again. And it would take down the site. So people came through with robots Txt and it was just a thing that said, hey, if this says please don't scrape this site, then don't. And the Internet kind of at the time Kumbaya and collectively agreed that they would be on board with this. But it's not official. It is not. It is just a gentle person's agreement, if you will. And that's the extent of it. And so I wonder whenever Reddit is talking about blocking its bots in 2024, if it's talking about throwing the new thing into robots Txt that says, hey, if you're AI, don't scrape this, because that again is not Something that is an official agreement. It is just a we all sort of nod and say, yeah, that's how we're doing things situation. So is that enough to be legal standing? And then there's the aspect that very little of what exists on Reddit is produced by Reddit. Almost everything that's on there is produced by people who don't work for Reddit, but who are individuals. And yes, you agree when you sign up for the site that the stuff that's there, Reddit has, you know, a license over, but that does play a role. And the fact that it is public, that I can go there, I can see what's on the site, I think also, in my opinion, plays a little bit of a role when it comes to this. But this also isn't the first sort of litigation over training data. The New York Times, of course, sued OpenAI and Microsoft. A bunch of comedians sued meta musicians. Authors and publishers have also filed claims against AI companies. But it is the first time that a big tech company, if we consider Reddit to be big tech, legally challenged.
- [29:31]
Christopher Lawley
They'Re public, they, you can buy Reddit stock. I guess they're big. I mean, who knows?
- [29:36]
Micah Sargent
Yeah, that's true, I guess, if you buy their stock, yeah, that's fair. But this is the first time that it has challenged an AI model provider over its training data practices. So we haven't seen that before. It's kind of been publishers and individual creators that have all kind of gathered together, big thing here, looking for an injunction. But I don't know, I don't know what we're going to have because Anthropic says, hey, we disagree with Reddit's claims, we're going to defend ourselves in court and that's that. On that.
- [30:12]
Christopher Lawley
Yeah. So I guess with this lawsuit and all the other lawsuits you mentioned, we just kind of have to wait and see. And it sucks when wait and see is pretty much all you can do. But we have to wait and see.
- [30:26]
Micah Sargent
Yep, yep. It's another wait and see. While we wait and see, we're going to take a quick break. Before we come back with my story of the week. I want to tell you about ZocDoc, who is bringing you this episode of Tech News Weekly. All right, listen up here. I know you've got excuses, you've got excuses on excuses about not going to the doctor. When was the last time you needed to go to the doctor? But you pushed it off. You said, I'm too busy, it'll heal on its own. Rub some dirt on It I don't know which doctor to go to. Well, that last one I completely understand. We've all been there. Booking a doctor appointment can feel so daunting. But thanks to Zocdoc, there's no reason to delay because ZocDoc makes it easy to find and book a doctor who's right for you. Doc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors and click to instantly book an appointment. When I first moved to Portland, I didn't know what doctor I was going to be able to go to. I didn't know if I was going to be able to find one close which ones supported my insurance because my insurance changed from the insurance that I had in California, all of that stuff. And so I said, I've been talking about Zocdoc for a while, let's go check that out. And I went to zocdoc and it helped me find a doctor and a dentist that were within walking distance of my house and they are fabulous. We're talking about booking in network appointments with more than 100,000 doctors across every specialty from mental health to dental health, primary care to urgent care and more. You can filter for doctors who take your insurance, are located nearby, are a good fit for any medical needs you may have, and are highly rated by verified patients. That's the important thing, they're actually real patients. Once you find the right doctor, you can see their actual appointment openings. Choose a time slot that works for you and click to instantly book a visit. For me, who avoids phone calls like the plague, this is a great thing to have appointments made through Zocdoc. Also really, they happen fast, typically within just 24 to 72 hours of booking. You can even score same day appointments. So stop putting off those doctor appointments and go to Zocdoc.com TNW to find and instantly book a top rated doctor today. That's Zocdoc.com TNW Zocdoc.com TNW Alrighty, we are back from the break, as we say, and I want to tell you about my story of the week. Amazon is preparing to test humanoid robots that could one day deliver your packages. Stepping out of the back of a Rivian van and walking up to your door at a San Francisco facility, the company has built a humanoid park, which is a test course for robots to navigate obstacles, simulate deliveries and collect data. It's the next phase in Amazon's long standing automation push. But this time the goal is to replace not just warehouse labor, but the entire Last mile delivery process. This is. This confused me at first, I'll be honest Amanda, because I thought about how we have these human beings who are working very hard and very quickly to deliver packages to us. And I thought about every single humanoid robot demo that I've seen. And the way that the robots move so stinking slowly as they try to not fall over. And then sometimes they get pushed and they, they sort of regather, but they're not holding packages in their hands while they're doing it. And then I thought about the other day when I was inside the house and I saw this shadow rush past my window and sort of scared me. And I looked up and the shadow had already gone back past my window because when I looked outside I looked to the right where I thought the thing where I thought the shadow would be. And no, the Amazon driver was already almost all the way back to their vehicle. So that's my first issue with this, is how is this going to be time saving. But let's talk about what's going on here. So Amazon is reportedly developing its own AI software to control humanoid robots, but it's going to not develop its own a robotic hardware. It's working with outside vendors. There's actually a prototype testing area that we talked about, the humanoid park. And this area includes a Rivian electric van. It's about the size of a coffee shop. And what the company hopes to do is have humanoid robots that ride inside of delivery vans, hop out at each stop and bring packages to the door. And the way that this is supposed to work to actually be time saving in theory, is the human being, not the humanoid being, but the human being drives the Rivian truck, very important Rivian truck, up to a stop. And the human gets out and delivers packages to one house while the robot unfolds itself out of the back of the truck and lurches toward another house and delivers a package. Again, I can already see the human being going up, delivering the package to the doorstep, coming back the. By that time the humanoid robot has just gotten out of the truck and has the package in hand. So the human just grabs the package out of its hands, takes it to the other house because it's so much faster. But apparently it's going to be trained like self driving cars are were I should say in the, in the first place. They work on a closed course at first and then they get to work in the real world and they're using LLMs to help the robots understand physical environments and reason about objects and instructions. So yeah, Perhaps one day I could, I could see this being a real thing. But I want to hear your thoughts on this, Amanda. And if you kind of feel the same way I do about the speed of robots and the sort of plight of the human. Human delivery driver.
- [37:04]
Christopher Lawley
Oh, man. I'm just imagining like there was a story a couple years ago where a guy in Florida shot a Walmart delivery drone out of the air because he thought it was like a threat. And I'm like, they're going to shoot the robots.
- [37:20]
Micah Sargent
Like they are, they are.
- [37:22]
Christopher Lawley
They're going to invest so much money in making these robots. And then I'm, I'm. I'm like scared about safety for this. Like, I don't know, but I guess I just don't really get the point of it. I'm also imagining someone out there with like a ring doorbell camera and they just see a robot, like slowly walking up.
- [37:46]
Micah Sargent
Yeah, that is. That does not sound fun. Again, we. I talked a little bit about how they aren't using their own. Their own hardware. Apparently they're looking at unitree robots. Those are super popular among developers because of their $16,000 price. So much less expensive than some of the other models.
- [38:09]
Christopher Lawley
Yeah. And then someone shoots your $16,000 robot.
- [38:12]
Micah Sargent
Imagine. And that's an instant felony, I'm pretty sure, on multiple ways. Because that was one of the big things about the guy who shot the thing out of the sky is like he didn't realize that ended up being a felonious act. And so when the police officer arrived, he completely admitted to having done it, not realizing that that resulted in him going to jail right away.
- [38:33]
Christopher Lawley
Oh my God.
- [38:34]
Micah Sargent
Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. And then also Agility Robotics has a digit bot and those are already at use in some warehouses. They have flamingo like backward bending knees and were previously tested to remove boxes. So Amazon's working with the latest version of the digit. I'm not surprised, given its little astro robot. Right. It didn't do very well.
- [38:59]
Christopher Lawley
But those are cute, though.
- [39:00]
Micah Sargent
They are very cute in comparison to creepy, creepy humanoid robot. What the company eventually aims to do, according to the information, is once they have mastered these training courses, we need to get them into the real world because they can fail in unpredictable locations with sidewalks and stoops. And so, so they are working toward getting into real world, testing, basically delivering to actual homes, navigating public streets to see how they work. Here is the big issue, ultimately, aside from sort of the, the issues involved with like replacing human beings, blah, blah, blah. There's kind of this question of what makes more sense, an industrial robot or a humanoid robot, meaning a robot designed specifically for package delivery. Think about those robots you sometimes see at Restauran, where they have openings on their back, essentially, and they look like a Roomba with a tower on top of it. Those are.
- [40:01]
Christopher Lawley
Those are also kind of cute, though.
- [40:02]
Micah Sargent
Yeah, see, and those are the good ones because those are more industrial. They're designed specifically for the purpose of delivering the food. But we want to do these cutesy, bootsy humanoid robots that remind us of ourselves, and we ourselves are not really designed for package delivery. We have been able to adapt to that. So the argument is, is let's not do a robot that looks like us because it's going to be walking slowly as it's trying to come and deliver the package. Let's do the classic style of Roomba with a tower or Roomba with, you know, arms that can deliver a package and do it well. Yet Amazon does seem to still be working toward the humanoid side of things. Now, we don't know when it expects these robots to be operational and what the plan is ultimately for this. I think as far as it seems right now, the company is solely just testing if this is even possible as something that could save time where a human and a humanoid are working in concert to. To deliver packages. But I think what we can tell so far is that it's a ways off and we won't be, you know, seeing that right around the corner. But, yeah, I don't know, between drones and robots that walk up to your house, which would you rather have delivering your package, do you think?
- [41:31]
Christopher Lawley
I mean, I feel like this kind of goes back to the point about, like, the industrial machines versus the humanoid robots, where I feel like I would rather have a drone because that actually could have utility if, like, let's say somebody needs medicine very abruptly. And maybe going through the sky via a drone from a nearby facility would be easier than having someone drive up with a car. Like, there are circumstances or like, if you're in New York City, where, like, getting anywhere via car to make a package is just difficult because traffic. Like, I don't love the whole drone thing, but you could see that it has some potential. But as you were saying, it's like, do we really need, like, a slow guy walking up with the package?
- [42:17]
Amanda Silberling
Like, I don't.
- [42:19]
Micah Sargent
I want a fast guy walking up with the package.
- [42:22]
Christopher Lawley
I guess I'm thinking, like, just generally about, like, the times in which tech tries to emulate real people, where it makes sense that, like, Chat GPT does this because the whole thing is that it wants you to be able to be like, hey, what should I make for dinner tonight? I have like, some spinach, but also like this, like sausage. But is my sausage still good? And then ChatGPT can like puzzle out what's going on there. But I feel like that is not necessary with the robots because we don't gain anything from them looking like humans except that people are going to freak out and maybe shoot them.
- [43:00]
Micah Sargent
Amen. Amen. And I think that's where we will wrap up today because that's the perfect end gap there. Be nice to your robots, Be nice, don't shoot them, because then you're going to be out at least $16,000, perhaps more when you have to pay for bail, as well as Amanda Silberlich, thank you so much for joining us today. If people would like to follow you online, where should they go to keep up with your work?
- [43:26]
Christopher Lawley
I'm mostly on Bluesky right now. I'm Amanda. Omg, lol. Which whenever I say that URL, I feel the need to be like, yes, that is a URL that I own for some reason. Collecting URLs is fun. And I have a podcast, wow, if true. Which is about Internet culture and it is on the Internet wherever you get podcasts.
- [43:48]
Micah Sargent
Beautiful. Thank you, Amanda, so much. And we'll see you again soon.
- [43:51]
Christopher Lawley
Yeah, thanks. Bye.
- [43:53]
Micah Sargent
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- [46:53]
Christopher Lawley
Pretty good. Thanks for having me on. I'm, I'm excited to be here and chatting about wwdc.
- [46:58]
Micah Sargent
Yeah. So first and foremost I have to ask, are you planning on being there in person this year?
- [47:03]
Christopher Lawley
Yes, I will be. I will be there in person. I will. I'm gonna get there on Sunday and I'm staying through Tuesday. So if anyone in audience is there and you see me walking around, say hi. I'll have the Ford hat on.
- [47:16]
Micah Sargent
Awesome. Awesome. So this is of course the time where Apple announces its announces and sort of previews its plans for its latest software. It's also the time where the beta versions of this software tend to ship, giving developers the chance to try out the software and make sure that their apps are working perfectly by the time the phones hit later in the year. But this is also the time where we're getting a peek at what's coming next from Apple and I thought it'd be great to talk to you about that. Perhaps we could start with iOS. And I know this is a little different this year because what's happening to one is happening to all. So maybe you can touch a little bit on that. But what is rumored to be making its way to iOS? Maybe in particular, what has you interested? And I've just thought about this. Let's. So let's combine for now, iOS and iPadOS. What's existing in that space?
- [48:13]
Christopher Lawley
Gotcha. Yeah, no, that's, that's smart. I mean, the big thing, like, right off the bat is it's been rumored for a couple months now that this year will be focused on a redesign, a big redesign, probably the biggest since iOS 7, and that it's more focused on the idea of having a vision OS style, like, kind of like transparent, you know, glass, like frosted glass style windows and buttons and things like that. And I'm very interested in what this will look like. You know, I have ideas in my head. I've seen better designers than me mock up concepts on the Internet and stuff like that. But, you know, we, we really don't. Designs and stuff like that don't ever really get leaked ahead of time, so we don't really know what it's going to look like until Monday, you know, 10am Pacific, when the keynote kicks off. So. But like, if you look at Apple's invites and some of the teasers and stuff that they've been putting out, a lot of it has that frosted glass design. And I'm very curious as to what this is going to look like. You know, there's some UI elements that have also been rumored that, like, a lot of things are going to be moved. Like, there's going to be like floating tab bars at the bottom of the iPhone and stuff like that. And yeah, I think the design wise is probably the biggest thing to look out for this year.
- [49:34]
Micah Sargent
Absolutely. Yeah. This is, I think, going to be something that reshapes the way that we look at the platform, what it, what it does and how Apple kind of views everything, given what we have heard is supposed to be cohesion across the board. With that, though, there is some question of how much separation is going to continue to exist between iOS, iPados and the Mac. What, what is, what are the rumors there? Is the Mac going to become more iPad? Like, is the iPad going to become more Mac? Like, are we going to continue to see what Apple at one point said would always be a separation between these two platforms?
- [50:21]
Christopher Lawley
I am the first person that doesn't want a separation between the two platforms. I want the Mac to Get touchscreen. I want the iPad to more Mac os. Like I. I am the first person that doesn't want the separation. But no, it kind of sounds like through various different reports that we've heard that the iPad is going to be shifting more towards the Mac. Especially if you're using something like a hardware keyboard and trackpad or mouse that this essentially we should be Getting stage manager 2.0 really technically 3.0 because 2.0 was in 1617 anyways we don't need to get hung up on that. But it sounds like through some different reports that the cursor could be changing to a more traditional triangular cursor. It sounds like there might be menu bars coming more free flowing windows. Like when you go to resize a window it's going to be a little more free flowing like the Mac you should be able to move windows around. One of the things that really bugs me about Stage Manager on the iPad is you can't take windows and stack them on top of each other other there always is going to be a a bit of another window peeking out behind it. And it's kind of Stage Manager on the iPad is a little bit or not a little bit. It's very on Rails and it sounds like this is going to go from being a train to being more of a car where you can. It's a little more free moving and you can kind of go where you want with it as far as window resizing and window placement and things like that. Which sounds very interesting to me. I'm. I'm very curious about that and how the. How that'll pull off off. There was a report a couple months ago and I think it was just like a one random one off report that we heard about. And then there hasn't really. I haven't, I haven't heard anything about it since. But there was a rumor going around that iPhones with the USB C port will be getting Stage Manager like will get support for plugging into an external monitor and then you can use basically like iPad OS stage manager esque setup up that way so your iPhone could essentially be a desktop computer at that point.
- [52:26]
Micah Sargent
Wow, that would be interesting. Now one of the big hyped features across everything as of last WWDC was Apple Intelligence. And over the course of time we have seen some interesting conversations surrounding Apple Intelligence. What has shipped, what has failed to ship, how the company has handled the shipping of these products. So tell me what are the rumors when it comes to Apple Intelligence this year and will we finally get Personal context or is that still a while away?
- [53:04]
Christopher Lawley
It kind of sounds like this is going to be an Apple Intelligence light year. We know that there has been some shakeup in the Apple Intelligence leadership. It's now under Craig Federighi. It was under, under. I, I cannot pronounce his name. John.
- [53:19]
Micah Sargent
Jeanne, Andrea. I think.
- [53:21]
Christopher Lawley
I, I'm, I'm sorry, I can't do it. I, I just, my mouth cannot make those words. But the. So who what who Apple Intelligence used to be under, it's not there. It's under Craig Federici now. So it sounds like they might be taking a back step. But I wouldn't be completely surprised. I would be shocked actually if there was nothing labeled Apple Intelligence in this keynote. We know there's some stuff coming about about battery management and I think this all has to do with the Ultra Air Light phone that might be coming out in September, that there could be some AI battery management into like how it handles, you know, you know, battery usage throughout the day and stuff like that. But the, the Apple Intelligence esque thing rumor that's going around that has me kind of like lifting an eyebrow is actually about these shortcuts app. It sounds like it's going to be kind of getting some kind of prompt support so that apps can hook into shortcuts a little bit better and that a user can say like hey, I am using todoist and fantastical. Make me a shortcut that both creates tasks for these projects and you know, a calendar appointment and that shortcuts should auto generate this shortcut. You should, you don't need to sit there and manually create these actions which would be really interesting. I think this would solve a lot of problems for to get people into the door to shortcuts because I think a lot of people see shortcuts and they see this block based editor and they're like oh, I don't even know where to start. So I'm good. But if you could just sit there and type to a computer and tell it what you wanted and it generated that for you, that, that is really interesting to me.
- [55:02]
Micah Sargent
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- [59:35]
Christopher Lawley
This is long, long, long overdue. I have the hardest time remembering what version we're on. And then you throw in stuff like WatchOS, which is not synced up with iOS, Mac OS, not synced up with iOS, and Vision OS too. So you have like three different platforms that aren't synced up. And then the weird thing is TV OS is synced up and it just skipped a whole other bunch of versions. So like, they, it, it's all confusing. I have no idea. I barely can remember what number we're on anymore. So yes, the year thing is good. When this rumor dropped, I was kind of confused for a second because I actually, it made me think it was 2026 and I was like, wait, no, it's 2025. That doesn't make sense. Why is it coming out? But then when you really think about it, these OS updates aren't. They're not coming out in June. They're, they're not being released in June. There's. Yes, there's a beta you can install whether you should or shouldn't, that's. That's up to you. I'm not going to tell you whether you should or shouldn't. That's on you. But the they will officially be released in September. Sometimes certain ones can get delayed. IPados has been delayed, Mac OS has been delayed in the past, stuff like that. But usually they're, they're released sometime between September and October. By the time like auto updates and stuff kick in, most people will be getting them October, November, things like that. So it makes sense that it's, it's actually the next year that they're being based on and I'm okay with that. But I'm so glad they're all going to be synced up and based on year and it's going to be so much nicer to, to remember. Like, okay, this is what we're on. Two years ago was this. Oh yes, I'm very excited about that.
- [61:17]
Micah Sargent
Nice. Now why don't we round things out here with kind of a quick little rundown of anything else you specifically are looking for, hoping to to see as WWDC makes its way to us very soon. Sort of the checkbox of. Yep, I thought that was coming and I'm so glad that it is that we haven't mentioned yet.
- [61:40]
Christopher Lawley
Yeah. So I have a laundry list of things, especially for IPADOs that I'm hoping for. I'm hoping to see some big updates to Apple's Pro apps on the iPad. I know Logic just got one, but Final Cut did not get an update around the same time, so I'm hoping. I'm wondering if they're holding out a big update date to kind of announce in the keynote for Final Cut Pro for the iPad. There are some things I would like to see for the iPad, like the ability to do customizable keyboard shortcuts, set up time machine backups. You know, I used to, I recently just got off of it, but I used to do all my creative work on the iPad and the fact that there wasn't a proper backup system made me nervous. Files improvements and things like that. There's all sorts of things that we can see. One thing that I would love that would make my life so much easier, but I don't think Apple's going to do it. They're required to do it in the EU because of the dma, but it would be give us the ability to run Chrome or Chromium browsers on the iPad. Let us just let us do that right now. No matter what web browser you install, if you're in the US and actually really anywhere, because as far as I know, there isn't even Chromium browsers in the eu. But if you install a browser from the App Store right now, now it is using the WebKit engine. Doesn't matter if it's Chrome, Firefox, Vivaldi, Safari, whatever. If you're running a Web browser on iOS or iPadOS, it is using the WebKit backend. And I have a couple of services that just require Chromium, whether it's Chrome or Edge or whatever, it just requires that Chrome engine. So that's a big one. I'm really hoping that Apple kind of realizes like, hey look, we tried to make WebKit like the big thing, but Chrome won the Internet and there's just certain things that their platforms cannot do on the web because you don't have access to Chrome.
- [63:34]
Micah Sargent
Yeah, I, I'm 100% there with you. I would love to see that happen. And for, you know, because there are now so many different services that exist online that I have to have Chrome for and that means having to go to my so it would be great to see that for sure. I personally am looking for the introduction of this, this improved home POD OS home OS system that is being talked about and the potential for a home pad. I don't know if hardware will make its way to this WWD wwdc, but we shall see. In any case, I'm really looking forward to seeing your coverage of what you learn and see at wwdc. If people would like to keep up to date with the work that you're doing, where are the places they should go to do that?
- [64:27]
Christopher Lawley
Yeah, you can find me on YouTube. That's where I publish all my stuff. It's. I'm just Christopher Lawley L A W L E Y Or you can go to theuntitled site. It has links to everything that I do. Podcasts, YouTube channel. All the time stuff will be there and I will be in person at wwdc. So I'm going to be making a bunch of videos next week about all the stuff that's happening and OS updates and if there's hardware, I'll cover that too. I, I like you. I'm. I'm not, I'm not entirely convinced that there's going to be hardware next week. I think it might just be software only, but if there is hardware, I will cover that as well.
- [65:02]
Micah Sargent
Awesome. Christopher Lawley, thank you so much for taking the time to join us today and give us a preview of what's going down. Wish you safe travels there and back and we'll see you again soon.
- [65:14]
Christopher Lawley
Thank you so much for having me. Talk to you later.
- [65:16]
Micah Sargent
Bye bye. Alrighty folks, that brings us to the end of this episode of Tech News Weekly publishes every Thursday at Twitter TV tnw. That is where you can go to subscribe to the show in audio and video formats. By the way, if you would like to get this show and all the rest of our shows ad free, well, you can do that by joining the Club Twit TV Club Twit is where you go to sign up when you sign up for a monthly or yearly plan. On top of getting every single show ad free, you also gain access to the Twit plus bonus feed that has extra content you won't find anywhere else. And the great thing about it is when you join, that means a huge back catalog of great stuff that you wouldn't otherwise have. On top of that, you also gain access to the Members Only Discord Server Server A fun place to go to chat with your fellow Club Twit members and those of us here at TWiT. And this Monday you're really going to want to be a part of the club because that means you'll get to tune in live as Leo and I spend the day hanging out together where we are going to be covering WWDC and the platform State of the Union. We plan to have our lunch together as well in between, so that'll be a really fun time where we're just hanging out throughout the day day covering the event and the kind of nerdy part of the event as well. So the only way you can get at that is if you join the Club Twit TV Club Twit. Now's the time if you'd like to follow me online. I am ikasargent on many a social media network where you can head to Chihuahua Coffee that's C H I H U A H u a Coffee where I've got links to the places I'm most active online. Be sure to check out my other shows on the network and and of course we will be back next week with another episode of Tech News Weekly. Until then though, goodbye and have a wonderful rest of your day or night whenever you're listening to this.
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