This Week in Space 150: Our Listener Special

Summary

Podcast Summary: This Week in Space 150: Our Listener Special

Introduction

In the milestone 150th episode of "This Week in Space," the hosts Rod Pyle and Tarek Malik celebrate with a listener special that delves into a variety of captivating space-related topics. Recorded on February 28, 2025, this episode blends humor, listener interactions, and in-depth discussions on current space missions and personalities shaping the industry.

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Host Banter and Jokes ([00:00] - [06:00])

The episode kicks off with Rod Pyle and Tarek Malik engaging in their characteristic lighthearted banter. They exchange jokes submitted by listeners, adding a playful tone to the show. Notable moments include Rod’s visual joke involving a "green rocket" that turns out to be a lighter, eliciting laughs and friendly ribbing between the hosts.

• Rod Pyle ([03:20]): "When the moon's in your eye like a big pizza pie. That's Amare."
• Tarek Malik ([04:07]): "Extravehicular activity."

These interactions highlight the hosts' chemistry and set an engaging atmosphere for the episode.

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Asteroid Near-Miss: Averted Threat ([07:00] - [10:35])

One of the primary discussions centers around a recently identified asteroid that initially posed a significant threat but has since been downgraded to a minimal risk. The hosts credit the Catalina Sky Survey and NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) for their diligent tracking and analysis.

• Rod Pyle ([07:46]): "Our favorite earth-shattering, dangerous asteroid has become a mere blip in our memory."
• Tarek Malik ([08:17]): "One in 20,000 risk which... it's a lot more of a comfort for the rest of us."

They discuss how additional observations and pre-discovery data refined the asteroid's trajectory, alleviating public concern. Tarek suggests an opportunity for future observation campaigns as the asteroid will pass by Earth again in 2032.

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Space Launch Solutions (SLS) and Policy Shifts ([10:35] - [14:37])

The conversation shifts to NASA's Space Launch System (SLS), exploring its future amidst growing support for commercial space providers. Highlighting a congressional hearing, Rod and Tarek discuss Scott Pace's recent stance favoring an "off-ramp" from SLS reliance.

• Rod Pyle ([10:45]): "Scott Pace... now wants an off ramp to commercial providers and also wants Moon and Mars."
• Tarek Malik ([12:23]): "It feels very much like a tone-setting meeting... expect some significant changes in the near future."

They examine the challenges SLS faces, including delays and budget concerns, and the broader implications for NASA's Artemis program.

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Lunar Trailblazer Mission: Success and Risks ([14:42] - [17:45])

Rod introduces the Lunar Trailblazer mission, a low-cost rideshare mission aimed at searching for water ice on the Moon. Tarek expresses cautious optimism, differentiating between the mission's innovative approach and historical "faster, better, cheaper" initiatives that faced setbacks.

• Rod Pyle ([15:50]): "Is this a nervous step back towards the horrid faster, better, cheaper era when we were losing Mars probes left and right?"
• Tarek Malik ([16:00]): "Simplex stands for Small Innovative Missions for Planetary Exploration. This is an example of something new and affordable."

They discuss the mission's status, including initial communication hiccups, and the potential for future CubeSat deployments.

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Katy Perry's All-Female Space Mission ([17:45] - [20:31])

A highlight of the episode is the announcement of Blue Origin's NS31 mission, marking the first all-female crewed spaceflight. The crew includes notable figures such as pop star Katy Perry, Lauren Sánchez (Jeff Bezos’ fiancée), and several professionals from STEM backgrounds.

• Rod Pyle ([18:23]): "It's going to be a make a bit of history... the first all-female crew."
• Tarek Malik ([18:30]): "Aisha Bao, film producer Carrie Ann Fly, CBS Morning co-host Gayle King... six women in all."

The hosts discuss the mission's significance in inspiring future generations of women in space exploration and the involvement of celebrities in such pioneering endeavors.

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Blue Ghost Moon Lander and Commercial Lunar Exploration ([20:31] - [22:05])

Tarek provides an update on Firefly Aerospace’s Blue Ghost lander, set to touch down on the Moon, carrying a NASA payload. The mission is part of a fleet of private lunar landers aiming to explore and establish sustainable bases.

• Tarek Malik ([20:36]): "Blue Ghost is Firefly Aerospace's first moon lander and carrying a NASA payload... Three private landers headed to the moon."
• Rod Pyle ([21:54]): "Fingers crossed for commercial success so we can get on with this."

They anticipate successful deployments and the growing role of commercial entities in lunar exploration.

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X37B Spaceplane: Secrets and Technology ([23:38] - [29:00])

The hosts delve into the enigmatic X37B spaceplane, highlighting its long-duration missions and advanced technologies. Initially a NASA project, it transitioned to the Department of Defense and now operates under Space Force oversight.

• Rod Pyle ([24:42]): "An experimental test program to demonstrate technologies for a reliable, reusable, uncrewed space test platform for the U.S. Air Force."
• Tarek Malik ([25:36]): "It's built by Boeing's Phantom Works... fully autonomous space plane."

They discuss the spaceplane’s capabilities, such as testing hall thrusters and potential reconnaissance applications, while acknowledging the secrecy surrounding its missions.

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Elon Musk vs. Astronauts: A Contentious Debate ([29:00] - [35:46])

Rod and Tarek examine the recent conflict between Elon Musk and NASA astronauts, focusing on the controversy over the SpaceX Starliner program and the treatment of astronauts expressing dissent.

• Rod Pyle ([29:44]): "Elon has a short circuit between his brain and his mouth... lacks filtration."
• Tarek Malik ([31:02]): "The astronauts on the space station... didn't feel stranded."

They critique Musk’s handling of public statements and the subsequent backlash from the astronaut community, emphasizing the need for professionalism in advancing human spaceflight.

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Buzz Aldrin: Legacy and Public Persona ([39:00] - [46:25])

The episode features an insightful discussion on Buzz Aldrin’s multifaceted legacy, contrasting his portrayal in media with personal anecdotes from the hosts.

• Rod Pyle ([39:37]): "Gene Kranz was... a very reflective, real gentleman."
• Tarek Malik ([43:00]): "Buzz is a person who says exactly what he thinks... passionate about space exploration."

They address Aldrin’s contributions to space exploration, his advocacy for international collaboration, and his candid discussions about personal struggles, painting a comprehensive picture of the legendary astronaut.

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Solar Sails and Future Propulsion ([51:26] - [58:15])

Tarek and Rod explore the potential of solar sails as a propulsion method for deep-space missions. They discuss successful missions like The Planetary Society’s LightSail 2 and envision future applications, including interstellar probes.

• Rod Pyle ([57:24]): "The solar sail has to carry no propellant... moving towards the percentage of the speed of light zone."
• Tarek Malik ([54:18]): "They haven't really maximized the use... Lightsail 2 was really cool and successful."

The conversation highlights the technological advancements and visionary ideas driving the next generation of space exploration.

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Meteor Showers: Best Viewing Tips ([51:26] - [62:43])

Concluding the content segments, the hosts answer listener questions about the best meteor showers to observe, offering practical advice on optimal viewing times and locations.

• Rod Pyle ([59:38]): "The Orionids can be very cool in October... have a graphic available for listeners."
• Tarek Malik ([60:06]): "February and early March is fireball season... Dark sky sites are ideal."

They emphasize the importance of dark environments for the best meteor shower experiences and share personal anecdotes of memorable meteor sightings.

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Final Thoughts and Farewell ([64:21] - [71:37])

As the episode wraps up, Rod and Tarek express gratitude to their listeners, encourage engagement through various platforms, and hint at exciting upcoming missions, including the live coverage of Firefly Aerospace’s moon landing attempt and the next SpaceX Starship launch.

• Rod Pyle ([68:25]): "Thank you listeners for sending in your comments and questions. We love you to death."
• Tarek Malik ([68:54]): "Join our live coverage of state-of-the-art space missions."

The hosts invite listeners to stay connected via social media and other channels, fostering a community around shared enthusiasm for space exploration.

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Conclusion

"This Week in Space 150: Our Listener Special" offers a comprehensive and entertaining overview of current space events, personal insights from experienced hosts, and meaningful interactions with the space community. From asteroid tracking and lunar missions to the intricacies of space policy and the enduring legacy of astronauts like Buzz Aldrin, this episode serves as a rich resource for space enthusiasts and newcomers alike.

Notable Quotes:

• Rod Pyle ([10:45]): "It's going to be a make a bit of history."
• Tarek Malik ([12:23]): "It's a lot more of a comfort for the rest of us."
• Rod Pyle ([16:00]): "Simplex stands for Small Innovative Missions for Planetary Exploration."

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Join the Conversation

For more detailed discussions and live interactions, listeners are encouraged to join the "Club Twit" Discord and follow the hosts on various social media platforms. Engage with the community, share your questions, and stay updated on the latest in space exploration.

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This summary captures the essence and key points of the 150th episode of "This Week in Space," providing a structured and engaging overview for listeners and non-listeners alike.

Transcript

[Tarek Malik]

Coming up on this Week in Space, we're all safe from that threatening asteroid. Also, Katy Perry's going to space. And what's Buzz Aldrin like behind the scenes? It's your listener questions for Our EPIC Episode 150. Tune in.

[Rod Pyle]

Podcasts you love from people you trust. This is trit. This is this Week in space, episode number 150, recorded on February 28, 2025, our listener special. Hello, and welcome to another episode of this Week in Space, the Listener Special edition. I'm Rod Pyle, editor chief, Badass magazine, and I'm joined by that Dapper Dan counterpart of mine, Tarek Malik, editor in chief at the great and wondrous space dot com. How are you, partner?

[Tarek Malik]

Dapper Dan? Doing well. Doing well. I could use some. Some Dapper Dan in my hair. You know, get some. Get some pomade in there. Get my curl going. Be great. Be great.

[Rod Pyle]

Well, I wasn't going to say anything, but. Yeah, actually, when you came on this morning, my time, it encouraged me to go brush my hair, but it didn't help any because I have less of it every week. See, I could sell ads right here.

[Tarek Malik]

I did shave for you and all of those this Week in Space listeners out there today.

[Rod Pyle]

So hold on. I feel so special. And I want to welcome our new td, John Ashley. John, was this assignment promotion or punishment for you?

[Tarek Malik]

Depends on how you want to view things.

[Rod Pyle]

Well, actually, it depends on how you want to view things, but, yeah, I'm.

[Tarek Malik]

Going to plead the fifth on this one.

[Rod Pyle]

Okay, well, that's encouraging. I feel like I'm in the federal government now. Before we start, please don't forget to do us a solid and make sure to, like, subscribe and do the other podcast things that keep us fat, happy, and on the air. Although we'd probably be fat anyway. All right, shall we do jokes first or headlines first? What do you think, Tarek?

[Tarek Malik]

Well, you. We. We usually always start with joke, so let's. Yeah, let's do the joke.

[Rod Pyle]

Okay. Well, we have a joke today. Yeah. And we always introduce our jokes like this.

[Tarek Malik]

Wait, wait, do we? Do we?

[Rod Pyle]

Oh, before I forget, I have a visual joke for people who are watching. I just got this off Temu. Let's see if I can. It's my new. Oh, it's too green.

[Tarek Malik]

Is it green? Is that what it is?

[Rod Pyle]

It's a green rocket. Oh.

[Tarek Malik]

Oh, my gosh. It's a lighter.

[Rod Pyle]

Watch out for that. Watch this. It keeps going even when you take your hand off the switch.

[Tarek Malik]

Oh, wow. Don't hurt Yourself. Please don't hurt yourself right now, okay?

[Rod Pyle]

It's not.

[Tarek Malik]

Shut up. Don't burn your eye out, kid. Wow.

[Rod Pyle]

Okay. Well, anyway, for those listening, that was a trivial moment of stupid John, we.

[Tarek Malik]

Have 911 on speed dial.

[Rod Pyle]

Right.

[Tarek Malik]

For Rod. Is that. I have to check the budget on that.

[Rod Pyle]

Actually, I have a live channel them all the time because of past activities. All right. Tucker, Drake.

[Tarek Malik]

Tucker.

[Rod Pyle]

A joke. Actually, it's not a joke, it's a punchline. This is for you, Tarek.

[Tarek Malik]

Okay.

[Rod Pyle]

When the moon's in your eye like a big pizza pie. That's Amare.

[Tarek Malik]

Amare. Wow. I'm not gonna live down this whole Mare mayor thing, am I?

[Rod Pyle]

I guess not.

[Tarek Malik]

Thanks, Tucker.

[Rod Pyle]

We got another one from Bill Nelson. I don't think it's that Bill Nelson.

[Tarek Malik]

But the Bill Nelson, former NASA administrator and senator who went to space.

[Rod Pyle]

It was a Bill Nelson. Who knows. Hey, Tarek.

[Tarek Malik]

Yes, Bill. Well, I guess. Yes, Rod.

[Rod Pyle]

Why do astronauts lift off at noon?

[Tarek Malik]

I don't know. Why?

[Rod Pyle]

Because 12 o'clock is time for lunch. Okay.

[Tarek Malik]

I would believe it. Yes.

[Rod Pyle]

Also from Bill. An astronaut washes his car and then washes his wife's car. What do you call that?

[Tarek Malik]

A double eclipse. What?

[Rod Pyle]

Extravehicular activity.

[Tarek Malik]

I like that one. I like that one.

[Rod Pyle]

Okay.

[Tarek Malik]

That's my favorite, Bill. That's my favorite.

[Rod Pyle]

From Paul Romain. Hey, Tarek.

[Tarek Malik]

Yes, Rod?

[Rod Pyle]

Paul, where will I read about the ISS after it's gone?

[Tarek Malik]

I don't know. Well, space dot com.

[Rod Pyle]

Right.

[Tarek Malik]

But where? But where?

[Rod Pyle]

The arbituaries.

[Tarek Malik]

Is it too soon? Okay, it's too soon.

[Rod Pyle]

I think only a couple more from Michael Diamond. Hey, Tarek.

[Tarek Malik]

Yes, Michael and Ron.

[Rod Pyle]

What does NASA stand for?

[Tarek Malik]

Well, I know, but I think you're going to tell me too.

[Rod Pyle]

So not another space acronym.

[Tarek Malik]

Okay? These are all new. This is the first time I'm hearing all these.

[Rod Pyle]

It's been busy. Thank you, John. From Adam. Well, his. His screen name on Discord is Adam Fantup. I don't know if that's his real last name or not. Hey, Tarek.

[Tarek Malik]

Yes. Yes, Rod. Yes, Adam?

[Rod Pyle]

How does the solar system keep its pants up?

[Tarek Malik]

I don't know. Is it with the asteroid belt? Is that.

[John Ashley]

Yes.

[Tarek Malik]

Is it? Is it?

[Ad Voiceover]

Well done.

[Tarek Malik]

I got that one. I got one.

[Rod Pyle]

Now, I've heard that some people want to whip us with an asteroid belt with a stroke time of this show. But you can help. You can help. Help send us your best, worst or most indifferent space joke at twist that Twistwit tv. That's twis. At Twit TV and we'll include you in the mayhem. I got tears today, Tarek. Do you want to do headlines or get. Get a break done, then come back and just jam through.

[Tarek Malik]

Well, let's get a breakdown and get jam too. We've got a lot of headlines. Yeah, let's take a break. Take a break. Let's do a break.

[Rod Pyle]

We'll be surprised. We're gonna have a break. We didn't even telegraph that. We'll be right back. Standby.

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[Rod Pyle]

We're getting a lot of gifs today.

[Tarek Malik]

I know. I can't. I can't see them well because I'm three.

[Rod Pyle]

Four. Four in a row.

[Tarek Malik]

I like the Betty. I like. I like Patrick's with his spaceship. That's fun. We're talking about our discord. And in the. The. The Twitterverse, everybody twit, tweet, twit. I don't know what you call it. Twitter, TV orse.

[Rod Pyle]

Well, not the Twitterverse. Whatever you say.

[Tarek Malik]

No.

[Rod Pyle]

Oh. Asteroid 2024 yr4. How you do keep us on the move. And now you're fading away so.

[Tarek Malik]

That's right.

[Rod Pyle]

Our favorite earth shattering, dangerous asteroid has become a mere blip in our memory. It's gone from slightly risky to highly hazardous to oh my God, is this really going to happen? And now been ground down with further observation and calculation to a 1 in 20,000 risk which I don't know. What was it at the worst? 1 in 32 or something. It was pretty.

[Tarek Malik]

It was like yeah. 1 and it was like 3% I think is what it was. 3.2% chance. So.

[Rod Pyle]

But now, and we have the Catalina Sky Survey and JPL to thank, as I understand it, who are able to find, actually. So I say additional observation. But it was also pre discovery data that went back and looked at imaging from well before we knew what it was and said, oh, there it is. It's not coming at us. So, Barstow, you've been spared.

[Tarek Malik]

That's right, that's right. And the rest of us too. This was actually something that the scientists that we were Talking [e-mail], they told us this was going to happen the entire time. They were like, oh, look, the chances are going to go up, then they're going to go down and then it's all going to be fine. But I don't think they expected the chances to go to the record height of like 3.2% chance, which is the highest it's ever been for any object before. Before getting, you know, not, not fully dismissed. Like right now the impact probability is zero is like the quote that the scientists are putting out there. But it's not totally zero. Right. One in. What is it, one in 20,000? Is that what you said there? It's, it's still, it's still, there's still like a percentage chance. It's just like not one in 32 anymore. So it's a lot more of a, a comfort for the rest of us who, you know, live and walk and breathe and eat and all the fun stuff. Watch, watch, binge, watch.

[Rod Pyle]

For those of us who were looking for the excitement of, of seeing a white dot in the sky that didn't move anywhere, just got bigger and bigger and bigger.

[Tarek Malik]

Were you, were you, were you planning your party? Is that what that was? Rod, you're going to have a return.

[Rod Pyle]

On Armageddon party for it to land somewhere in New Jersey.

[Tarek Malik]

Oh, thanks. Thank you.

[Rod Pyle]

Well, you keep saying your house is falling apart. This would solve your problems.

[Tarek Malik]

I still have a hole in my wall in my kitchen. It's almost been a year. All right, okay, that gets fixed next week. It's going to be great. But yeah, so we don't have to worry about the asteroid. Cheers. Uh, one thing that is very exciting though is that now 2032 is on the calendar. Let's plan an observation campaign. And you know, I think, I think there's enough time that someone could launch something to this as it, as it flies by. Like, even if it's a CubeSat. Yeah. So I challenge some entrepreneurs and 3D printers out there. You people who are really smart with the machines and whatnot, build something and get it on one of these rockets. Let's see if we can launch it to this asteroid. That'd be pretty cool.

[Rod Pyle]

Okay, all you billionaires listening to this show. All right. Woe to sls, the story that just won't go away.

[Tarek Malik]

This is from, like, Arsenica, right? I think it is, yeah. Oh, Eric Berger.

[Rod Pyle]

It kind of feels like the tide is turning. And while there are those who still support SLS for the first few lunar landing missions, including some very prominent people like a former NASA chief scientist and others, even those people, some of them are beginning to falter. The latest about face was from Scott Pace, who was the secretary of the National Space Council under the last. The first Trump administration and a leading voice in space policy. And he wrote for a congressional hearing. He had been championing SLS for over a decade, now wants an off ramp to commercial providers and also wants Moon and Mars. Now, I know Scott some. I don't think he'd say that just to be in step with the administration, but that is basically. Well, what we're hearing from Elon is kill that rocket and buy mine. But what I think this is, is, look, let's. Let's use SLS for what, with what we've got, for what it's good for and move on.

[Tarek Malik]

Yeah, this was really interesting because this came out of a House Science subcommittee meeting this week on the Capitol. It was called Step by Step, the ARTEMIS program and NASA's Path in Human. NASA's Path to Human exploration of the moon, Mars and beyond. And what it really was was the, the new Trump administration's like, the first opportunity to kind of get. What do you call it? Like a. I was going to say like the oil stick dip, but like the census, you know, thing to see, like, where things are. Right. Does anyone do that anymore? Like, they use the, the oil stick.

[Rod Pyle]

To see, like, I don't know, Jaguar. You can't. There's no way. You have to do this electronic rigamarole. But I like dipsticks.

[Tarek Malik]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like, it's like, it's like that. And it was Scott Pace and another expert, Dan Dunbacher at the Purdue University, to really give their take on, like, where things are right now. And there was a lot of hand wringing and complaining amongst the many members of the panel on both kind of ideological spectrums, the Democrats and the Republicans there, about where things were. Of course, the Democrats are really upset about the federal agencies like NASA being really under fire by the current administration, while the Republican representatives were really upset about what could happen in their states because there's a lot of NASA assets for SLs in their states in Alabama, in Texas, in Florida, et cetera. And yet also they're frustrated about where things are right now. We've launched one SLS rocket in the 18 years of its, plus of near 18 years of its designs, et cetera. So, so it was very interesting to kind of see where things are. In fact, one of the things that these lawmakers and these experts were saying is that they really need to have alternatives in hand and in mind right now. Like you were saying, Scott Pace, talking about how they really need to get an off ramp from this system. They're halfway there with the Artemis 3 contract, but Starship still has a long way to go. In fact, I'm sure we're going to talk about that later today too. And so, so I'm not really sure like where things are. This really felt very much like a tone setting meeting. And Eric, Eric is right in that it really is a continuation of what's going to happen with sls. They keep pushing back the next one and now it's 2026. Is it going to stay there? We don't know. There is also a lot of discussion from lawmakers about Orion and, or as one lawmaker put it, Orion. So it was weird, right? So, but, but there was talk about like if that's going to be ready as well because of the heat shield issues. So, so we're going to see how this develops. I think that this was the first salvo. I think that it's really weighing heavily, but we should expect some significant changes in the near future.

[Rod Pyle]

All right. And we got, we got a few more headlines to get through and a whole lot of questions.

[Tarek Malik]

So we can skip a couple. I mean we can just do a rapid fire if you want to do one.

[Rod Pyle]

Lunar Trailblazer Lost and found Lunar Trailblazer, a new probe to orbit the moon was launched on a Falcon 9 on Wednesday. And, and this is from a JPL press release. They said Caltech Mission Control, which I thought was interesting, so they must have it now at the campus, established successful telemetry contract with the orbiter whose core mission is to search for watery ice deposits on the moon. Finally then on Thursday it went quiet. Hours later, needed comms for mission success, came up again, but they're still trying to establish the actual links that they have to. I guess they got a heartbeat, but then you have to go and see if you can get everything else. So notably this is what's called a Simple X mission, which they characterize as a class of low cost rideshare missions that have a higher risk tolerance by design. And my question for you, my friend, is, is this a nervous step back towards the horrid faster, better, cheaper era when we were losing Mars probe right and left?

[Tarek Malik]

Well, I hope not. Simplex stands for Small Innovative Missions for Planetary Exploration. So it is, it is another acronym as our jokester. So well put it earlier. But, but I think that this is, this is an example of two things. Number one, this was kind of a rite of convenience for NASA and for the lunar Trailblazer people. They were looking for a ride to space. To space and something that would be affordable. And Firefly Aerospace, it turned out, had bought an entire Falcon 9 to launch their not Firefly, pardon me, intuitive machines had bought an entire Falcon 9 to launch their IM2 mission to space through Athena Lander Rover, Slash Hopper. It's got all the things on this one and they had extra mass available on the, on the rocket. So they were able to have space to then, you know, take NASA along there. Now that being said, we've seen this kind of similar take on smaller and faster spacecraft before. We saw it during the SLS mission. We're talking about that too with their 10 different cubesats. And of those 10 cubesats, maybe a handful of them, like four. Yeah, managed, managed to survive. And that was something that they did set up because they were saying that they were going to try something different. This could be an evolution of that where they were trying to do something a little bit more affordable, but perhaps a faster, with less tolerance. However, I think that this is a, like a general hiccup. It wasn't like they were trying to cut corners and do it, but it was that they were going to do something new and they had a hiccup on their spacecraft as we've seen from time to time with all these. So it could be kind of like one parts of one and two of the other, that kind of a thing. But I hope it, hope it works out, to be honest, because this is going to look for some ice and study the ice distribution around the sun. I was going to say this. So the moon for, for good places for future bases. Well, maybe if they go in winter to the sun. I don't know.

[Rod Pyle]

I like that. All right, this one I'm just going to leave open for comment from you. Katy Perry in space.

[Tarek Malik]

I was so excited.

[Rod Pyle]

What and why, and why should I care?

[Tarek Malik]

Because baby, she's a firework rod. She's gonna show us what she's worth and she's gonna make us go, oh, oh, oh, right. No, no, this is awesome. This is actually, you know, you didn't know I know the words of that song, right? Is that, is that what it is?

[Rod Pyle]

No, I'm just laughing at you. You're weird.

[Tarek Malik]

Blue Origin, actually, we had a hint of John. I'm giving you gold here. All right, this is gold.

[Rod Pyle]

Okay, move on. We gotta go to an ad.

[Tarek Malik]

All right, all right. So. No. Fresh on the heels of their last human spaceflight, Blue Origin announced their next crew for what they're calling the NS31 mission. And it turns out that it's actually going to be a make a bit of history. Not just because one of the crew members is in fact pop sensation, you know, super mega award winning singer Katy Perry, but also because it's going to be the first all female crew ever. In fact, I was talking to Robert Probin, friend of the show and editor of Collect Space, when this story broke and he confirmed to me that the last all female crew was Valentina Tereshkova's one one woman flight in the 60s. So, so this is the first an all female crew and it's gonna have a lot of celebrities and luminaries on it. It's organized by Lauren Sanchez, the fiance of Jeff Bezos who's flying. Yeah, she's flying on the mission. And also, you know, Jeff Bezos is the owner of Blue Origin. So I guess there's a definite in there to get things moving. But it's also gonna include several other people. So that's six, six women in all. You have the STEM board CEO and former NASA rocket scientist Aisha Bao, film producer Carrie Ann Fly, CBS Morning co host Gayle King. I watch her on tv. That's exciting. And, and then bio, bioastronautics research scientist Amanda Nguyen. So I think it's, it's a really interesting concept and they're hoping to inspire other women, other, another generation of explorers with this flight. It'll be interesting if there's any kind of different rollout for this human space flight from Blue Origin than there was from the last one, which was really just a very quiet. Here's five of the six people that we're going to launch who bought their tickets to space. We're not even going to tell you who the sixth person was because they don't want all the publicity to what is now a very high publicity, high profile flight launching in the spring. So be on the lookout for that. And, and then we're going to see how, how Katy Perry and the rest of these celebrities do in space.

[Rod Pyle]

I'm looking out. Okay, last and quickly, Blue Ghost going to the moon. Where are we?

[Tarek Malik]

Yeah, well, we're almost there. We're almost there. And if you keep asking, they're going to turn that moon lander around, Rod, but, but no. Blue Ghost is Fireflies Aerospace's first moon lander and carrying a NASA payload, I think, if memory serves, a couple of them under the clips program. But they are going to land on Sunday morning just I guess around like between 2 and 4am is what the current target is Eastern time and everything seems to be going well. In fact, they just captured some spectacular imagery of the mo far side as they were soaring over it. So this spacecraft seems to be really on point as they're approaching it. So it should be pretty exciting. And I think everyone please, please note that right now there are three, count them, one, two, three private private landers headed to the moon. We've got Blue Ghost landing on Sunday, March 2nd. We have the Intuitive Machines Athena Lander landing around March 6th, March 7th, which so like not even a week later. And then you have the I Space Resilience lander which is Ispace's second from Japan attempt to try to land on the moon. That's going to land I think near the end of March, early April, that kind of thing. So that's really awesome that we've got this huge fleet all going at the same time in a bit reminiscent of last year when we had a couple as well.

[Rod Pyle]

So fingers crossed for commercial success so we can get on with this. All right, let's go to a quick break and we'll be right back. Standby with your questions. So stand by.

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[Rod Pyle]

All right, so number one, my partner Roy Del Cam says what is the X37B secret of space plane looking for on these long missions? Just to set, just to set some background here. It's been flying for about 15 years. And of course there was an X37, I guess you'd call it now, X37, although it was just the X37 at the time that was used prior to this for testing and so forth. But they've got 2x37Bs that can stay up there for, I don't know, I think this one's been up so far.

[Tarek Malik]

For what, 900 something?

[Rod Pyle]

Almost a thousand days. 908 days. And it's interesting because normally they launch them on a Falcon or in the past an Atlas or a Falcon 9. This one that's up now is launched in a Falcon Heavy because it was going to a highly elliptical high altitude orbit that's actually further out than geosynchronous, which is what, 25,000 miles, I think.

[Tarek Malik]

Yeah, about that. 32.

[Rod Pyle]

So, so high. You know, it's like a tenth of the way to the moon. So this program was started in 1999 by NASA to fly in the shuttle payload bay. I'm glad they didn't do that because it's not good to put things full of fuel in the shuttle payload bay.

[Tarek Malik]

Just to put some perspective, you can F2 of these back to back in the space shuttle payload bay, which is like 60ft long.

[Rod Pyle]

So yeah, that's how small they are. Filled with hydrazine. What a great idea. Exactly.

[Tarek Malik]

The bomb in the bay, they used.

[Rod Pyle]

To call it, transferred to DOD in 2004 and now it's part of Space Force. Originally at least stated to be intended for satellite repair. But the Air Force calls it an experimental test program to demonstrate technologies for reliable, reusable, uncrewed space test platform for the U.S. air Force. Which means we're doing secrets and we're not going to tell you what we're doing. So it has tested, well, reputedly it has tested such technology as hall thrusters, which are ion engines and the EM drive.

[Tarek Malik]

Yeah.

[Rod Pyle]

Which is supposed to be, you know, free energy from weird, spooky Andromeda and physics and of course probably advanced spy techniques.

[Tarek Malik]

So what do you know Well, I know two things. Number one, these were built by Boeing. I think it's there, they call it their Skunk Works. Is that right what they called it, their Phantom Works.

[Rod Pyle]

That was Lockheed. It might be Phantom Works.

[Tarek Malik]

It was, yeah, I think it's the Phantom Works. So they built, they built these for NASA like originally or at least for one of them for NASA and then NASA wasn't going to use it and they were going to junk it. So they got the Air Force to buy it and of course the Space Force adopted it overall and to give our listeners who aren't watching the stream or you know, and checking out the, the link that we have there an idea. Imagine like a small space plane or like maybe like a super sized guided missile that you might, you might think with some kind of pointy wings popping off the back and that black and white type of tiled look that the space shuttles have and just shrink it, shrink it all the way down. They put a payload bay in it that opens much like the ones that you see on the space shuttle, but inside that is a solar array that deploys and it fans out to build power. That's what they did for this vehicle. And it's a fully autonomous space plane. They can land it. I think they've landed it both in Space center and what was it? It was that it was at Mojave though, right? At Edwards is. That's where they.

[Rod Pyle]

So Edwards, Vandenberg and the shuttle Runway at Kennedy were all identified as landing zones. I thought they might have landed at Vandenberg, but for sure in Mojave.

[Tarek Malik]

I could be, I could be wrong. Yeah, I know, I know they did at Mojave Hobby. So the missions have just been getting longer and longer. I think the first one was in the early 2000 and tens. 2000 and tens or so and it lasted a good, you know, six, six to eight months. Then they went to a year, then they went to two years. And now this one at 900 days is just really stretching that envelope. They have two, like you said, you called this one 30. Like I think extra 7A, there is another one. And together they call them, I think they call them OTVs, right, orbital test Vehicles. And, and so they do all sorts of things. What they do in particular on a regular day to day, we don't know, they think that they're reconnaissance platforms. They think that they test some technology. We have heard that they have deployed a couple of small satellites and tests in the past and we just recently, in fact we have a picture of it on Space.com I forgot to grab it. But we got our first picture from this spacecraft of the Earth, like, way far below the first declassified one while it's going on. And that was really exciting to see here. We've got this picture of it now that John is showing on screen. This is an image from the payload bay of the X37B on this super high elliptical orbit, showing kind of like a 3/4 Earth below with a little bit of the solar array there. This is just absolutely spectacular because the last time we saw a spacecraft like this was within like, two seconds of spacecraft separation. Again, a very rarity. When it. When this one launched, we'd never seen that before, and maybe they forgot to cut off the feed. Maybe they did that to. To give us all a bit of a thrill. But those are the glimpses that we get of it in space. We won't see it again unless they declassify more until it flies itself back to Earth and lands either at KSC or Edwards or. Or wherever the Space Force wants to land it. So.

[Rod Pyle]

So it's doing.

[Tarek Malik]

It's doing some kind of technology test for the military. Go ahead, go ahead.

[Rod Pyle]

On YouTube, Eric Duckman mentions it did land a couple of Vandenberg. So thank you for looking that up for us.

[Tarek Malik]

Thank you, Eric.

[Rod Pyle]

We obviously didn't do our homework. Okay, we ready for the next one?

[Tarek Malik]

I would just point out that I think that the X37B is pretty exciting, and I have a X37B cozy in my car to keep my drinks warm, so now I'm ready for the next one.

[Rod Pyle]

Never cease to amaze. And of course, now the Chinese have one, too.

[Tarek Malik]

Yeah, Shenlong. It's called Shenlong.

[Rod Pyle]

Looks kind of like the X37B because everything they do looks like everything we do. Okay. Hey, try doing this one without getting political. Elon Musk versus Andreas Morgenson.

[Tarek Malik]

Oh, you saw that?

[Rod Pyle]

Yeah. Just beat me with a. With an asteroid belt, you know, so Musk, you know, blesses dark soul.

[Tarek Malik]

So, Jim. This is from Jim Reed. Is that who this is from?

[Rod Pyle]

Yes. Sorry, I should have said that. You know, Musk joining the. The administration. Presidential administration tweeting out the astronauts, you know, Sonny and Butch have been abandoned on the space station, and they were left there for political reasons and so on and so forth. And, I mean, you know, something else may come out about this that we don't know, but at this point, as far as we could tell, they were left there because we were concerned about the risks in starliner and they hadn't been brought yet back yet, principally because SpaceX wasn't ready to do so. Well, although there is a capsule up there, but you'd have to completely reshuffle the seating rates of stuff to make it work. Yeah, so, sorry, let me, let me just finish the thought. So the issue here is not so much what's being said by the administration, Musk, but the fact that when an astronaut on the space station came on the air and said, hey, that, that's not how it is, Elon Musk shouted him down in a pretty irresponsible way, in my opinion.

[Tarek Malik]

Well, yeah, this is really strange. And it's, it's, it's kind of in the arena. I don't like to get that political, but it's in the arena of I wish everyone would just go ahead and do the work and, and, and like, let's, like, let's, let's focus on the task at hand. But when this came up, the astronauts on the space station, Sonny and Butch had just given TV interviews saying that they didn't feel stranded, that they thought that a lot of the, the characterization, some of them by people in power. In fact, Sonny Morgan mentioned that she felt that President Trump's assessment that they had been like, abandoned was not fully accurate. She told that to CBS News. And so right after that is when you get Elon's comments about how they were left there for political reasons. And then a lot of the blowback came back from that with astronauts saying, you know, actual astronauts like Andreas Morgensen, a visa saying, no, that's not the case. You know, it wasn't political reasons. And then it just got really, really nasty. Elon was calling them names. A lot of other astronauts like the Kelly brothers, Scott Kelly and Senator Mark Kelly came in over the weekend to also kind of blast back and it got very personal. And it's just very sad to see that kind of an altercation, especially from people that are ostensibly in charge of a personal human spaceflight program, because you'd think that there would be a bit more professionalism, you know, amongst everybody there. So, you know, where, where are we? Is that, that whole, that whole, well, what am I going to call it? I don't want to call it a tempest. That whole occurrence, that whole situation happened and we were getting ready on the media side to get, to get NASA's take on what the next crewed mission is going to be. Crew 10 launching on the SpaceX Dragon that is going to relieve the Crew 9 astronauts and let Butch and Sonny come back to Earth on their own crew. Nine Dragon currently at the space station, which has been there for many months. They have not been left without a ride home. It's been up there for a while. And NASA canceled it probably because they don't want reporters asking the heads of their programs was it really for political reasons or what are they, or the astronauts who are going to be on the flight, what do they think about, you know, the, the person that built, that builds their spacecraft calling out astronauts like that. And so it's just a very unfortunate situation to be in that isn't about the actual work itself, if that, if that makes sense. Right.

[Rod Pyle]

Well, it's really about Elon having a short circuit between his brain and his mouth. I, I don't mean to be insulting, but the guy severely lacks filtration. Now, when he first started coming in the public eye in the, in the mid 2010s, you know, 2014, 2015, 2016, it was kind of adorable in a way. It's like, oh, here's this guy giving his first, first fifth grade book report. He's shining his shoes on the back of his pant cuffs and stuff like that. And so you went, okay, you know, this is somebody who's obviously extremely intelligent, has a little bit of a communications challenge perhaps, but he's brilliant. Now, I still believe he's brilliant, which doesn't mean I like a lot of what he does, but I do think he's a very smart man. What's puzzling is with that intellect comes this kind of barbed tongue, you know, that lashes out continually. And it really does feel like kind of free association and yet even seems.

[Tarek Malik]

Like it's not necessary. That's the thing to me is it seems like it's necessary to go that, that route when you.

[Rod Pyle]

Extra necessary.

[Tarek Malik]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rod Pyle]

Okay, well, let's. I think that's enough of that one.

[Tarek Malik]

By the way, just a side note, an observation that I realized this morning as I was thinking about, well, you know, billionaires, as one does, is I just realized that Elon is the only billionaire so far who has built his own space program but not ridden on his rocket. Because Jeff Bezos flew on the first crewed flight of New Shepard not to orbit. Richard Branson flew on the first crewed flight of. Or like, not the first crew flight, but, but the first passenger flight, I guess because they had done other test ones on. Was it on Spaceship 2. But Elon has this private orbital rocket and he hasn't written on it. And it just reminded me that when I interviewed him years and years and years ago. He said that he wasn't interested in actually riding on the rocket, like being among the first for it. He'd like to make sure that it worked properly and would go and do the other things like make sure that the infrastructure was there to get to Mars. I just thought that was interesting. Or it thought that he's kind of a departure from the billionaire.

[Rod Pyle]

It's kind of like would you want to fly in a plane designed by Howard Hughes if he wouldn't, you know. All right.

[Tarek Malik]

Or if you were Mark Zuckerberg and you built your whole meta VR and decided not to use it because you were going to go build live on a farm somewhere. I don't know. So.

[Rod Pyle]

All right, let's go to another break and we'll be right back. Go Nowhere.

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[Rod Pyle]

Last one from Jim Reed. You covered potential. No, sorry, that was not the one. If the mission is cut short for the ISS and impacts the Boeing Starliner, would the government get any money from Starliner program back? My answer is with them about 2 billion in the hole? I doubt it. Plus they're trying to sell that division. I think they want to get away from it as fast as possible.

[Tarek Malik]

Yeah, it's a good luck Good luck. It's like. It's like I had all those coupons at Sports. Was that SportsCenter. And then they went out of business and I couldn't use them. You don't know. They're not going to get that money back. I don't know if they'd actually get credit for future flights to, like, another space station destination. That was. That would be interesting to know. I think that's what. One of the things Jim is like asking about if they retire, because I don't think we talked about this too much, but Elon said last week that he wants to retire it by 2027, three years early than the plan. And ostensibly, I think Boeing is on the hook for four or five crewed flights of Starliner. Is that right? Something like that. It's in single digits. And so we'd have to see if they're going to parlay that need to. A commercial station like Vast is getting ready to launch their first one next year. So we'll have to see if they're going to try to make that switch or if, as you said, they just shut it down when the space station shuts down.

[Rod Pyle]

All right. From Martin Lawler, my good friend Martin Lawler, one of two members of the Private Space Thugs Club.

[Tarek Malik]

Space Thugs. Well, you have to tell me about that.

[Rod Pyle]

Yeah, we have T shirts and everything.

[Tarek Malik]

Wow.

[Rod Pyle]

He says, Rod, what was your impression of Gene Kranz and assessment of his impact in the Apollo years? That's actually a really good question. I. I met Gene once. I interviewed him for a couple of hours.

[Tarek Malik]

Before you. Before you go tell people who. Gene Krantz.

[Rod Pyle]

Oh, sorry. Gene Kranz was one of the early flight directors during the Apollo era and Gemini era, actually. Yeah. He was a controller in Mercury and then I think he became a director on Gemini. And of course made famous by the movie Apollo 13. Failure is not an option, which he.

[Tarek Malik]

Never portrayed by Ed Harris, first said.

[Rod Pyle]

By the ever irascible Ed Harris, who did a great job. And that was kind of Gene then. He was an Air Force. Air Force veteran, very capable, I wouldn't say forceful, but disciplined. And I think one of his. His most outstanding moments to me, and I'm working on a project with Jerry Griffin, who is another flight director of the Apollo era. And he. We talked about this quite a bit, was after the Apollo 1 fire, which killed three astronauts in 1967. Mission control came back a couple of days later, you know, and everything had basically been locked down after the fire because they. It was a disaster. And they needed to know what happened and preserve data and all that. So it was either a day or two after that Cran's called everybody together, including backroom folks and some other people into Mission Control. And he gave a talk that is now called the Cran's Dictum, I think, which basically said, you know, from now on, Mission Control will be perfect. You will write this on your boards. You will do this every day. You will look at this. We will never make a mistake again. People's lives are at stake, and so on and so forth. It was a very moving speech. It was not recorded, it was not written down, but people tried to recall it over the years enough to repeat it. So we know generally what he said. And apparently it was quite moving for everyone involved after this horrible tragedy which killed three astronauts on the ground. They weren't even in launch mode, they were just testing. So. And by the time I met him, which is 2005, he had mellowed quite a bit. He was very kind, he was very reflective, as a lot of these guys are later in life. He had spent a lot of time kind of in introspection about what it all meant. And a real gentleman. Now, after him, I interviewed Chris Kraft, who was the first, one of, the first, very first people at. To establish Mission Control. And he came out of its. NASA's predecessor. And Chris was, I don't want to say bitter, but. But he was definitely edgy about the whole thing, was not happy about the direction NASA was going in 2005. So it was quite a contrast. But, but Kranz was a very gentle soul and I really enjoyed interviewing him. And obviously a smart guy and, you know, he's kind of the living handbook for Mission control during the space race. Did you ever meet him, Tarek?

[Tarek Malik]

No. I have a feeling that I may have interviewed him one time, one time only. You know, I know I have his book, so.

[Rod Pyle]

But I think they're into it. Yeah, Yeah.

[Tarek Malik]

I think I only interviewed him like maybe once or twice in a anniversary kind of type setting, you know, to kind of get his take on, on the whole legacy of Apollo, etc, so. But, you know, but I'm not the historian who would have had that chance to talk to him as much as you, as you might have had. So. So I would defer to your judgment about all of that. But, you know, in my recollection from the interview, remember, just being a very, very calm and collected person.

[Rod Pyle]

So. Yeah. And coincidentally, Jim Lewis wrote in and said, hey, what's Buzz Aldrin like? So I get to answer two questions now.

[Tarek Malik]

Yeah.

[Rod Pyle]

So Buzz, if you saw first man, you saw kind of a compacted version, an abbreviated version of Buzz.

[Tarek Malik]

First man is the story before the first man is the, Is the Neil Armstrong biopic.

[Rod Pyle]

Biopic, yeah. And. And Buzz was not portrayed in a terribly flattering way. So I called Joe Engel, who was also an Apollo astronaut, later shuttle astronaut. Joe didn't fly an Apollo, but he trained for it and said, you know, you worked with Buzz for years. He goes, yep. And I said, you know, does this movie portrayal make any sense to you? And he said, oh, yeah, like, exactly. So now, I didn't know Buzz then, obviously, because I was a kid knowing him later in life. He's a person who says exactly what he thinks. And you get the sense that there's 5 billion brains trying to get through one mouth. You know, when he talks to you, it comes fast and furious and highly technical. But he's very passionate about space exploration. He's very passionate about internationalism. He's very passionate about working with China, if we can do it in a way that's constructive for both countries. And he's really, really, really driven to get things moving to, as he likes to put it, get your. A beep, beep to Mars.

[Tarek Malik]

I think we can say that. I think we're allowed, right?

[Rod Pyle]

Hey, I never, I never, you know, a dollar sign, dollar sign to Mars.

[Tarek Malik]

But he sells T shirts that say that.

[Rod Pyle]

But he spends a lot of time designing these things. So I just was writing something recently about the Aldrin cycler working with him. And this is a large spacecraft that would be on a permanent orbit between Earth and Mars. So it's a low energy thing. You don't have to put much propellant into it. You just have to adjust it every now and then. Now you'd have to have a shuttle from the Earth or the Moon up to the cycler. And then when the cycler reaches Mars, much faster than a traditional rocket, you have to have another shuttle either down to Phobos or down the surface of Mars. But you've got this kind of permanent space liner going in this big loop between these two worlds, which means you can, if you have a couple of them, say every year, you can load up cargo and people and send them out there and, you know, guarantees this continuous flow of stuff to Mars, assuming that you want to have a long term settlement there. So, you know, I got to give him a lot of credit.

[Tarek Malik]

That feels like something we should build, not just.

[Rod Pyle]

Yeah, not just for being smart he was the first person at MIT to get a doctorate in orbital dynamics, which. Which even today makes my brain hurt. But he kind of invented some of that field of study. But he was also one of the few people from the Apollo era and the astronaut corps that really, you know, kept on on this campaign to get it moving, get back beyond Earth orbit, get back to the moon, move things along for the rest of his life. And, you know, most the other astronauts are believers, but they went off to other things. They ran airlines, they ran liquor distribution companies, you know, all kinds of different stuff. So I got to give Buzz a lot of credit. You know, he probably could have made more money going into private industry that way, but he chose to kind of go his own way and, of course, was on Dancing with the Stars.

[Tarek Malik]

Yeah.

[Rod Pyle]

So he's. He does have a bit of a thespian limelight streak in him as well.

[Tarek Malik]

Well, there's also, I mean, this very, very public history, I think, that we don't see a lot of in astronauts. You know, astronauts are American heroes or. Or not American. Right. Depending on where they' that's the pedestal that they're on. But, you know, as we've seen with. With Lisa Nowak and maybe some other astronauts that have had struggled and had problems afterward, you know, it's not all rockets and roses and all of that stuff. It's a. It's a hard job, and it can take a toll. And. And he has been very public in both his books and outright about his. His challenges with alcohol, you know, later on, and depression and the turnaround that that was. And I think that that is also, like, a really important part. Part of that legacy is to show kind of all of the dimensions. I have a Buzz Aldrin story. If, if you don't mind that I wanted to share, can I just touch.

[Rod Pyle]

On one thing before you do?

[Tarek Malik]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rod Pyle]

I'm really glad you mentioned that, because I. I omitted it. He wrote in a book, I think it was two or three years after he got back about that depression. And this was in a time in the early 70s, test pilots didn't talk about this stuff.

[Tarek Malik]

No, they didn't talk about that stuff.

[Rod Pyle]

They still don't talk about this kind of stuff. But he came right out and said, look, I can only speak for myself, but here's what I went through that was courageous. And, you know, I mean, at that point, he wasn't still an astronaut, so there wasn't a risk to his career in that sense. But he could have been ridiculed. He could have been frozen out by his, his brother pilots and astronauts. So that, that was a. You're right. That was a very big deal.

[Tarek Malik]

Yeah. And I just. It's really important that you get the whole measure, I think, of that there. Buzz Aldrin was the subject of the very first space story I ever wrote as a professional journalist. Did I ever tell you that? I'm telling everybody now. Right?

[Rod Pyle]

Yeah.

[Tarek Malik]

In fact, also in 1999, which is the same year Space.com was founded, I wasn't here. I was working for the Los Angeles Times and Buzz Algernon as a child.

[Rod Pyle]

As a child employee.

[Tarek Malik]

That's right. That's right. I was still in my 20s. But, but buzz Aldrin was there at the Yorba Linda Presidential Nixon Presidential Library with some big. The biggest cartoonish plushie moon boots I've ever seen because they provided them to him to put his moon boots prints in concrete at the library for the 30th anniversary of the Apollo 11 moon landing. And they said, hey, you like space tarkin? I'm like, you bet you're, you know, keister. They said, why don't you go write this thing about. About Buzz Aldrin? And I was like, all right. And I was like an intern, I think, back then at the, at the newspaper. And, and, and I did. I got to see him, I got to meet him. And actually he signed his portrait right here. Can you see that? Is that.

[Rod Pyle]

I can't believe you had that ready. Very good.

[Tarek Malik]

And it's. And you know, he signed it right here.

[Rod Pyle]

You know what that signature cost at its peak of fame?

[Tarek Malik]

Well, this one in 1999 cost me $10 because it was not free.

[Rod Pyle]

So in the 2000s, it was 700. Wow.

[Tarek Malik]

Wow.

[Rod Pyle]

If it was a 3D object, like an Omega watch box or something, it was 1200 to 1300. So.

[Tarek Malik]

Wow. Well, so I got a bargain is what you're saying.

[Rod Pyle]

Yeah. So hang on to that. So let's go to a quick break and come back with our last few. You don't go anywhere with the best.

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[John Ashley]

Is set, the stakes are high. The only thing standing between you and victory. Nothing. Ascend to the pinnacle of gaming greatness with Lenovo Legion laptops, towers and the new award winning Legion Go, the world's first officially licensed handheld. Powered by SteamOS. Legion relentlessly pushes gaming technology forward with Towers built for raw untamed power laptops with best in class AI tuning that sharpen your reflexes and the Legion Go, a handheld for serious gaming on the go. Stay ahead with lightning fast responsiveness on a stunning 16 inch PureSight display. Keep your cool with cold front thermal technology engineered for marathon sessions and with all day battery life. The game never stops until you say so. So check out lenovo.com legion Lenovo Lenovo empowering creators everywhere.

[Rod Pyle]

Okay, let's go to and I think this is a Tariq one.

[Tarek Malik]

Yes.

[Rod Pyle]

Biron Aman, M.D. who says he was bitten by the space bug in ninth grade when he read a book called Red Giants and White Dwarves. You know, I think my first, I was first bitten by a book called the Big Golden Book of Rockets. So that's pretty impressive. He says. What are your thoughts on the solar sail from the Planetary Society? I think they did too, didn't they?

[Tarek Malik]

They did lightsail. Right. And then there was another one that didn't, that didn't make it.

[Rod Pyle]

Yeah, okay. Yeah, but, but it says in testing and a couple of launches. We'd love to hear your perspective on long term future with photons being a propulsion for the exploration of our cosmos.

[Tarek Malik]

I, I'm actually, I mean I'm of the mind that we don't use solar sails like enough. It must be trickier than I understand it to be because we have the planetary society with lightsail and I think lightsail 2 was the one that succeeded. The first one it launched on like one of those converted ICBMs that Russia used to launch and it had some issues. But Lightsail 2 was amazing and you could even track it from the ground and see it fly overhead. And after that we saw NASA have their own. They had NAS N ocld. We saw Japan launch the Akatsuki. Not Akatsuki. Akatsuki was a probe. It was called Icarus. That was the name of it. And not only that, but they included like a little lipstick camera that took a picture of it after it was fully unfurled, which is spectacular. And I just think that they're awesome. Of course in sci fi they're amazing. They're these giant gossamer, you know, ocean liners.

[Rod Pyle]

Well sci fi you can get from the Earth to Mars in about eight hours with a solar system I know which is not quite the case.

[Tarek Malik]

They're slow but, but, but I think that we haven't really maximized the use for them. We haven't done a. Aside from Japan which deployed the Icarus satellite, the solar sail on the way to Venus and then flew by Venus with it, which is pretty cool. We haven't tried to do deep, deep, deep ultra deep space testing with these, these sails. And I think that I would like to see something like that. Now of course we do need to get better at using them in orbit and you know we haven't seen too many of those, those types of missions. But I think that from a concept proof standpoint that the lightsail one was really, really cool and successful because they were able to keep it flying and maneuver it for a good long time longer than I think they initially planned. And I think that that's a, that's a something that for a non profit like the Planetary Society should be hailed and lauded because that is, that is like the heights of civilian science right there. And I just wonder how high they could go. If they could, if Elon wrote them a check or Jeff Bezos wrote them a check for like a bajillion dollars. What kind of lightsail craft could they make?

[Rod Pyle]

So by the way, there is a book, unlikely.

[Tarek Malik]

There is a book called by Michael Flynn called the Wreck of the Rivers of Stars and it is all about a commercial solar sale liner that is far past its prime. The heyday has gone. So it's like an opulent Titanic type style but it's in a time where there's a faster engine so they don't use it anymore. And it's all about the final voyage and how disastrous it is. And it is absolutely gripping from like if you like sail type of spacecraft. The Record of the River Stars is by Michael Flynn is a great sci fi book to read.

[Rod Pyle]

Hey Quippy, put a link to Wikipedia article and a very nice graphic of solar sails up on Discord. And if you were in Club Twit you'd be on Discord too and seeing all this great stuff. Although we also get great things from the other platforms but had to throw a little, little ping in there for Club Twit because it helps us and it helps you and it helps everybody.

[Tarek Malik]

But I'm just gonna have one, one correction that Quippy shows the Icarus Solar Sail not, not Lightsail two from, from jaxa because that's Venus in the background there.

[Rod Pyle]

You just had to say it's not my solar sale, it's somebody else.

[Tarek Malik]

But it's still an awesome one. Everyone should like it. John is waving his hands. He's like, I can't even with these people.

[Rod Pyle]

Get over yourself, you guys. I would like to give a shout out to JPL guy and former associate Rob Staley who put together a group called the World Space Foundation. I think in the 80s. I was working with him in the 90s and they did a lot of work on solar sails there. A lot of early work with deployment mechanisms. And you know, it was this, this spindle that had like tape measure type material that went out and actually tested it in one G. Of course it worked very well. Unable to fly it ultimately. But they were early pioneers in solar sales stuff and I suspect probably work with the planetary society at some point. But you know, let me just add one more thing. There is another type of solar cell.

[Tarek Malik]

I was gonna say. Yeah.

[Rod Pyle]

Which would be interplanet. Excuse me.

[Tarek Malik]

There's two other kinds that. There's two other kinds. So there's this one you talk about this one you talk about this.

[Rod Pyle]

Just hush and let me say what it is. Golly, that's the first time I said golly in about 10 years. It's the first time in the air ever. Which is a large. Depending on which design, it is either very small or very large solar sail. But, but it would basically be powered by a laser or a stream of high energy particles coming from Earth or somewhere near Earth. Earth. Now we're talking about a good Jilla Watt kind of laser. So because if you're going to send it that far that at the speed you want, it has to be very powerful. But the nice thing is the solar sail has to carry no propellant. The sun helps push it out of the solar system. It continues accelerating continuously. And then when you turn on this, this power supply on Earth, basically what it means is you've got this, this transport system that doesn't have to carry its fuel, you know, so its mass is very low. And so it goes faster, faster, faster, faster. And you can start getting in the percentage of speed of light zone without too much drama.

[Tarek Malik]

In fact, if you, if you watch the, the three body problem on Netflix, that laser sail concept was what they used to try to propel the human brain off to the alien solar system. And that interstellar concept has been come up with. What is that? What is it they called it's the nonprofit Breakthrough Starshot. Oh, yeah, that's the whole concept of that is to send a bunch of little chips with solar cells all the way out to Alpha Centauri also. And Magsales is the other one that said it doesn't use sails. It uses magnetic field lines and electrical lines to tack using the magnetic fields of the solar system. That's the other one.

[Rod Pyle]

I guess it's quippy. Noted. That's super cool. But they better clear the airspace where they fire up the laser. That's probably a good idea. Yeah, yeah, it would be, it's. It would be a very quick death. At any rate.

[Tarek Malik]

I was going to say someone worn Alva Centauri because those, whatever we send with that laser, it's not stopping when it gets there, it's going to keep going.

[Rod Pyle]

Well, that's a sad thing. You know, there's. There's really no way to tack effectively to slow down and either go into orbit or at least do a slow, slow flyby. Which is why you want to send a whole flock of these things because then you can stagger them and it's actually like slowing down. If you have, you know, a couple hundred of them and they're strung out out, you get this longer, longer view. Okay, I, I wanted. This is a kind of stepping off the side, this. Lily Stromberg. Thank you. Lily. What's the best meteor shower to go and see? Oh, now, best meteor shower and then I'm going to turn it over to you. So the Orionids, the Perseids are the two big ones every year. Perseids are in the summer and August Ryanids are in December. In the wintertime, depending on where you live, the Orion is. Can be a real chore because it gets cold. But the Leonid shower, when it peaks, which is supposed to be every 30 years, but is kind of unpredictable, is the most spectacular ever recorded. And I. We have a graphic of it that we can put up. In 1833, it was like, I don't know, thousands and thousands per hour. So the sky. And of course it was a lot darker in 1833. Right. Because people were using oil lamps and stuff. But the sky was just like on fire with these things.

[Tarek Malik]

Yeah.

[Rod Pyle]

And I saw it as I've repeated on the show ad nauseam, so I'll keep it short, but I saw it in 1966 completely by accident from backyard in Pasadena, which had a lot of light pollution. But that year it also really fired up. And it was, for a kid my age, terrifying. And really exciting because again it looked like God was just using the salt shaker in the sky and this stuff was burning up. Haven't really seen that since. So I.

[Tarek Malik]

In 2002, the Lena's were quite good as well because Jasmine and I saw them from the top of her apartment building in New York City and there were quite a lot of them. So. So that was great. But. But no, those are good picks or the Orionids are in are one of my favorites, Lily, because they are in October. So it's always like Halloween time.

[Rod Pyle]

They were in December.

[Tarek Malik]

No, the Decembers is Geminids and that's actually the better one for the year. So. So if we're. According to Joe Rao and Bill Cook at NASA. Lilly who NASA, he's with the NASA Meteoroid obviously we check with them every year to find out what the best ones are. The Geminids are in December and they're usually the best because it's the darkest time of year, the nights are longer and the air is still and they're one of the most promising ones. But Rod is right in that the Orionids can be very cool in October. And they're also pieces of Halley's Comet, which I think is really exciting.

[Rod Pyle]

Halley's Comet.

[Tarek Malik]

Halley's Comet. Comet Halley, as you will so is the ETA aquarium meteor shower and that is in May. It's like a twofer that you get from, from Comet Halley with these two meteor showers. The Leonids though in November and the, the Perseids in August are typically what we usually like bank on because they're the most accessible for people. They're in parts of the year where people either are taking some time off because the ones around Thanksgiving one's in the summer and you can, you can really observe them. In April you get the Lyrids, but they're not the, they're not the greatest because it' the middle of spring, the stormy weather, it's hard to see. But one thing that Rod pointed out is really clear. You asked, you asked me my point. One thing that is really important is that you really want to be in a dark place. The darker your skies, the better the chances are for what you can see for any of these meteor showers because I have a street light right in front of my house and it can cut down the number of meteors by at least half, if not more just from the one street light or from city lights as well. So getting out there in the country or a dark sky site, very, very good if you can do it. Which is why the winter ones are great, because it's dark earlier so you have more time to go out and do things.

[Rod Pyle]

That's true. Although it's really not worth going out too. Too far before midnight. Because midnight is when the Earth rotates into its direction.

[Tarek Malik]

Exactly.

[Rod Pyle]

Orbit around the sun. Because we're. Yes.

[Tarek Malik]

No, no, go ahead, go ahead. No, go ahead.

[Rod Pyle]

Because we're basically impacting a gravel bank of what's left over from this comet orbit. Yeah. After midnight, you turn into it and they really accelerate. I will add.

[Tarek Malik]

Would you say that after midnight the universe lets it all hang out? Is that.

[Rod Pyle]

I probably wouldn't say that.

[Tarek Malik]

That's a song, right?

[Rod Pyle]

Yeah. You can sing it to us. I would add. Of the major fireballs and bolides. I've seen bolides. Just a big fireball have been the Perseids. And I did go up in the mountains where it used to be dark. The mountains north of San Gabriel Valley. It's not anymore. And depending where you live, you can look up. Is it darksky.org I think darksky.org It'll.

[Tarek Malik]

Help you find some dark sky.

[Rod Pyle]

Yeah. Help you find somewhere nearby from the LA County. By the time I go north far enough for it to get dark, I'm basically picking up lights from Ventura. If I go northeast, by the time it gets dark, I'm picking up lights from Barstow and Las Vegas. If I go due east, by the time it gets really dark, I start getting into the big light cone from Phoenix. So the only place I can go here is way offshore, which is a great place to watch meteorites. But, you know, it's a bit of a commitment going out there. There.

[Tarek Malik]

I would point out that February and early March is fireball season. Also, according to NASA, when you get a lot of bolides and whatnot, we've actually seen a few of them in recent weeks, too, but they're not. They're not something that you can plan on very much. It's just not. It's just not uncommon to get fire fireball displays during that period.

[Rod Pyle]

Yeah. Okay. I think it's about time to wrap up. Up. Let's have one more. Oh, I think we've done them all.

[Tarek Malik]

You don't, you don't want to. You don't, you don't. You don't want to do 56.

[Rod Pyle]

Yeah. Okay. Wanda Chang, how do you convince a moon landing denier that we actually did it? We've talked about this a bit on this show.

[Tarek Malik]

Punch him in the face. If you're Buzz Aldrin, right?

[Rod Pyle]

He was the Denier. He was a stalker. So Tarek's referring to Bart Cybol, who was a moon landing denier who stalked Buzz Aldrin, among others, incessantly. And actually one time, I think it was in New York, Buzz was some kind of an event. And this guy is like getting in his face, standing, blocking his way into this building, saying, will you swear on a Bible that you never went to Humble, blah, blah. And Buzz, to his credit that, you know, said no comment and kept turning away and trying to get around this guy. Cyber was being a dick. And I think he reached out and touched him. And finally Buzz hauled off a punch him in the face. And most people in space community went, yeah, good on you, but Bart's an exception. But there is a large percentage of the population globally and in the US sadly, that think it didn't happen. And this got worse in the social media era when people like Joe Rogan and Steph Curry and boy, those are two people whose intellect you want to respect for scientific accuracy. Although Rogan's smart, he's just not. Not my cup of tea, but said, you know, I don't think it happened. And I'm summarizing there. It was a lot, lot more complex than that with Rogan. But, you know, how do you talk? I shouldn't say talk sense. That's judgmental. How if you're going to try and convince these people, how do you do it? Well, on the one hand, sometimes it's not worth it because people get a lot of. Of personal. What's the word I'm looking for? They get like, affirmation of being a denier because you don't have to go get a PhD in astronomy or planetary science, orbital dynamics, to be smart in that all you have to do is get on a couple of wacko websites and say, look, I'm an expert. We didn't go, how about them? UFOs and lizard people in Los Underneath Los Angeles. But. And again, this is a repeat from before, but because she asked in the past when I went on something like coast to Coast AM with George Nuri, and people would ask this question. I'd say, you know, talk to the moonwalkers as I have, see if you think they're lying. Look at NASA. Almost half a million people working together on the Apollo program. You're telling me they all kept the big secret? Secret, you know, analyze the footage, the photographs people keep calling out. There's reasons for all the things they ask about, like waving flags and so forth.

[Tarek Malik]

Can I see? The flag was waving and there's no stars, Rod, there's no stars and the flag is waving and it's on the moon. What's going on?

[Rod Pyle]

Because the astronaut walked right next to it, charged static electricity. It was a crappy little nylon flag and so on and so on. You know, go to the museum, look at the Saturn 5s, all that stuff. Now it's much simpler because after the fall of the Soviet Union, they said, yeah, we tracked everything you guys did. We use radar, we measured the Doppler of the thing of the spacecraft coming around the moon. We listened to all your radio transitions. Of course you went to the moon. And of course the 21st century India, China, who's not our biggest fan and others have photographed the Apollo landing sites in orbit. So something landed there and something left footprints and something left rover, rover tracks. So it's kind of open and shut. But I'll just wrap up by saying if somebody really wants to be a mood denier, they're not going to believe that either because it's all photoshopping and conspiracy.

[Tarek Malik]

I think our guest Mick West a few episodes back talked a little bit about that and the, about the state, the state of where things are and how siloed off people are. So that's a good, that's a good episode to go back and revisit, by the way.

[Rod Pyle]

Yeah, actually that episode got a lot of good feedback. Well, Tarik, Rod, I want to thank everybody and you of course partner, and John Ashley, our new man on the, on the board for joining us today for episode 150, Sasqua Centennial.

[Tarek Malik]

We should have led with that at the start.

[Rod Pyle]

We forgot our listener special edition. And thank you listeners for sending in your comments and questions. We love you to death. Never be shy about contacting us.

[Tarek Malik]

Send us more.

[John Ashley]

Sure.

[Tarek Malik]

We have episode 200 to plan for.

[Rod Pyle]

That's right. And thank you for our live viewers. We're tracking your comments as we can on Facebook Live, YouTube, Twitch X, TikTok, LinkedIn, Kick, and of course on the Club Twit Discord. I think I said that even faster than Leo does. Tarek.

[Tarek Malik]

Yes.

[Rod Pyle]

Where can we find you answering more space questions these days?

[Tarek Malik]

Well, you can find [e-mail] rod and everybody like always. This weekend I'm actually going to see all the new space products that are going to come out for consumers at the toy Fair in New York as well as watching Firefly Aerospace land on the moon. So be sure to come back. We're going to have live video of that attempt. And then on Monday we're going to watch Starship Launch. We forgot to talk about Starship, But Starship Flight 8 launches on Monday and I guess we'll talk about that next episode. And then of course on the Twitter pardon me x Tarekj Malik also on Blue sky and on YouTube, as Rod likes to point out, at Spacetron plays where I found a telescope and a glowing moon globe in Fortnite Night in the new season. And you can find out all about it.

[Rod Pyle]

So they're just pixels, okay? And of course you can find me at places that actually matter, like rodpilebooks.com or anaster magazine.com I'm just kidding. Ace.com matters more than either of those. And you can find the National Space Society, which is my primary [e-mail] Membership includes a full subscription of the print digital editions of Ad Aster magazine, which I am the editor in chief of with a much smaller circulation than you have. Please remember you can always drop us a line at TWIT at Twist Twit tv. That's to get it right this time. Twistwit tv. We welcome your comments, suggestions, ideas and we answer all our emails. New episodes of this podcast publish every Friday on your favorite podcaster, so make sure to subscribe, tell your friends and give us reviews. We'll take five thumbs up or whatever you got. And don't forget, we're counting on you to join Club Twit. Help keep us on the air. Keep the electrons hot and happy and you help. You're helping out a good cause for all the shows that Twit does. Finally, you can follow the Twittech Podcast network at Twit on Twitter X and on Facebook and Twitter TV on Instagram. Thank you Stream viewers and listeners. Thank you everybody else. Thank you Tarek and thank you and welcome John. We will see you all next week. Bye.

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[Rod Pyle]

Com.