This Week in Space 157: Space Force!

Summary

Podcast Summary: This Week in Space 157: Space Force!

Podcast Information:

• Title: All TWiT.tv Shows (Audio)
• Host/Author: TWiT
• Episode: This Week in Space 157: Space Force!
• Release Date: April 18, 2025

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Introduction and Episode Highlights

In Episode 157 of "This Week in Space," hosted by Rod Pyle and Tarek Malik, the discussion centers around the U.S. Space Force, recent astronomical discoveries, and significant events in the aerospace sector. The episode delves into potential signs of extraterrestrial life, a critical explosion at a Northrop Grumman facility, the controversial Blue Origin NS31 flight, and an in-depth interview with Chief Master Sergeant John Benavena of the U.S. Space Force.

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Potential Detection of Extraterrestrial Life

Rod Pyle kicks off the episode by discussing the tantalizing possibility of detecting life on the exoplanet K2-18b, located approximately 120 light-years away. Reports suggest the presence of dimethyl sulfide (DMS) and dimethyl disulfide (DMDS) in the planet's atmosphere—chemicals typically associated with microbial life on Earth.

"These are possible signs of life, and emphasis on possible, found in the spectra of this exoplanet as it transited its host star."
— Rod Pyle [03:27]

Despite the excitement, the scientific community remains cautious, noting that such compounds can also be produced abiotically. The James Webb Space Telescope is slated for additional observations to confirm these findings, though securing observation time remains a challenge.

Rod Pyle shares a personal anecdote about the intense interest in this discovery, highlighting the constant demand for updates even during personal outings:

"No rest for the weary space."
— Rod Pyle [05:27]

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Northrop Grumman Rocket Test Flight Explosion

The episode shifts focus to a concerning incident involving Northrop Grumman, where an explosion at their test site in Promontory, Utah, resulted in the complete destruction of a building housing solid rocket motor tests. Fortunately, there were no injuries or fatalities reported.

"They're going to look into it. They've lost an entire building. What building that was, we don't know."
— Rod Pyle [15:52]

The explosion raises questions about potential setbacks for upcoming projects like Artemis 2 and ongoing developments for the Space Launch System (SLS). The lack of immediate impact on planned launches provides some relief, but the long-term implications remain uncertain.

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Blue Origin NS31 Flight and Public Backlash

Tarek Malik introduces the controversial Blue Origin NS31 flight, billed as the first all-female mission since Valentina Tereshkova in 1963. The mission, primarily a public relations effort to promote women in STEM, included high-profile media figures like Katy Perry and Gayle King.

The flight, lasting approximately 11 minutes with a brief period of weightlessness, sparked intense debate on social media. Critics argue that the participants are not trained astronauts and that the mission was more of a publicity stunt than a genuine space exploration effort. Conversely, supporters applaud it as a significant step forward for gender representation in space.

"This was a tourist flight... Primarily done for public relations, for advancing the cause, women in STEM."
— Tarek Malik [11:58]

Rod Pyle expresses surprise at the severe backlash, noting that similar missions have not previously elicited such strong reactions. He contrasts the short duration and limited scope of the NS31 flight with traditional, lengthy astronaut missions, emphasizing the disparity in public perception.

"They recommended it, gave it a 10 out of 10 and felt that everyone should do it."
— Rod Pyle [12:07]

The hosts discuss the broader implications for space tourism and the evolving nature of space missions, recognizing both the positive strides and the challenges in public acceptance.

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Interview with Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania of the U.S. Space Force

A significant portion of the episode features an insightful interview with Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania, the most senior enlisted member of the U.S. Space Force. The discussion provides a comprehensive overview of the Space Force’s mission, structure, and future objectives.

Role and Responsibilities of the Space Force

Benavena explains his role in advising General Saltzman, the Chief of Space Operations, focusing on enhancing the guardian experience—ensuring that Space Force personnel feel valued and well-equipped to meet national needs.

"I provide them primarily in a lot of enlisted stuff. But I like to say that my responsibility doesn't stop at stripes."
— Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania [21:22]

Key Functions of the Space Force:

1. Assured Space Access: Managing national security launches from facilities like Cape Canaveral and Vandenberg Space Force Base, with over 100 launches anticipated in 2025.

   "Assured space access... Range of the future going out, you know, the direction that we're going."
   — Benavena [34:00]

2. Global Space Operations: Overseeing vital infrastructure such as GPS, military satellite communications (military satcom), space-based missile warning systems, and space domain awareness.

   "Making sure that GPS... the PNT that not only our war fighters and coalition partners rely on... is built right on the sustainability and accuracy of PNT and a GPS Constellation."
   — Benavena [37:03]

3. Space Control: Ensuring space superiority by maintaining freedom of maneuver and denying adversaries the same capabilities.

   "Space control... our ability to provide space superiority to the nation and our allies."
   — Benavena [37:43]

Space Force Evolution and Integration

The interview delves into the historical context of the Space Force's establishment, highlighting the transition from the Air Force to an independent military branch in 2020. Benavena recounts his personal journey, emphasizing the seamless integration of space operations expertise into the newly formed service.

"When the Space Force was established... I jumped at the chance to help build a foundation for generations of guardians to come."
— Benavena [23:08]

Collaboration with Civilian and International Entities

Benavena underscores the importance of collaboration with organizations like NASA and international partners to maintain space domain awareness and develop defensive strategies against potential threats, such as satellite sabotage or orbital debris.

"We have to have attribution. We know who is doing it... and work to make sure that we have the systems in order to protect and defend national assets."
— Benavena [51:42]

Future Prospects and Expansion

Discussing the expanding domain of space, Benavena touches on upcoming challenges and opportunities, including increased commercial activity, lunar exploration, and the potential for crewed missions. He speculates on the future roles the Space Force might adopt, such as a space-based counterpart to the Coast Guard.

"As we travel out beyond the moon to Mars... Wherever national interests extend out to, that will be where the Space Force expands out to as well."
— Benavena [62:56]

Astronaut Guardians and NASA Partnerships

Highlighting the collaborative efforts between the Space Force and NASA, Benavena mentions Colonel Nick Hague, the first Space Force guardian to visit the International Space Station, and Sergeant William Wallace, who conducted biological research in collaboration with NASA.

"It's inspiring, right, for the kind of have that relationship and allowing him to continue exploration and the research and development from the civic perspective."
— Benavena [71:53]

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The episode wraps up with the hosts appreciating Chief Master Sergeant Benavena for his comprehensive insights into the Space Force. They discuss the importance of official documentation like the Space Warfighting Framework and Space Force Doctrine Document One in establishing a clear operational lexicon and strategy for space operations.

"These official documents really help solidify, communicate to a broader audience and also some internally, what are we doing and how are we getting after?"
— Benavena [47:44]

Rod Pyle emphasizes the real-world implications of the Space Force’s work, contrasting it with its portrayal in popular culture, and recognizing the tangible contributions of guardians in securing national and economic interests.

"Your picture and presentation of the Space Force is much, much more accomplished than I guess how Netflix put it in that TV show."
— Rod Pyle [77:25]

Benavena provides resources for listeners to learn more about the Space Force, encouraging engagement through official websites and social media channels.

"We try to be really good at consolidating whether it be videos, interviews, news stories... to kind of tell the Space Force story and really brag about guardians and the things that we're doing."
— Benavena [76:09]

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

1. Rod Pyle [03:27]:
   "These are possible signs of life, and emphasis on possible, found in the spectra of this exoplanet as it transited its host star."

2. Rod Pyle [05:27]:
   "No rest for the weary space."

3. Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania [21:22]:
   "I provide them primarily in a lot of enlisted stuff. But I like to say that my responsibility doesn't stop at stripes."

4. Rod Pyle [12:07]:
   "They recommended it, gave it a 10 out of 10 and felt that everyone should do it."

5. Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania [34:00]:
   "Assured space access... Range of the future going out, you know, the direction that we're going."

6. Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania [37:43]:
   "Space control... our ability to provide space superiority to the nation and our allies."

7. Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania [62:56]:
   "As we travel out beyond the moon to Mars... Wherever national interests extend out to, that will be where the Space Force expands out to as well."

8. Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania [71:53]:
   "It's inspiring... allowing him to continue exploration and the research and development from the civic perspective."

9. Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania [47:44]:
   "These official documents really help solidify, communicate to a broader audience and also some internally, what are we doing and how are we getting after?"

10. Rod Pyle [77:25]:
    "Your picture and presentation of the Space Force is much, much more accomplished than I guess how Netflix put it in that TV show."

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Conclusion

Episode 157 of "This Week in Space" offers a comprehensive exploration of the U.S. Space Force, shedding light on its critical functions, challenges, and collaborative efforts with civilian agencies like NASA. Through engaging discussions and expert insights from Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania, listeners gain a deeper understanding of the Space Force's pivotal role in safeguarding national interests and advancing space exploration.

For more information on the Space Force and its initiatives, visit their official websites and social media channels as mentioned by Chief Benavena during the interview.

Transcript

[Rod Pyle]

Coming up on this Week in Space, we got a possible detection of life on an alien planet 120 light years away. There was an explosion at a Northrop Grumman rocket test flight. And we're talking about the Space Force with Chief Master Sergeant John Pentevania, who's going to tell us what that military branch really does. Tune in.

[Unknown]

Podcasts you love from people you trust.

[Tarek Malik]

This is Tilt. This is this Week in Space, episode number 157, recorded on April 18, 2025. Space Force. Hello and welcome to another episode of this Week in Space, the. Wait for it. Space Force edition.

[Rod Pyle]

No, no. Oh, wait. All right.

[Tarek Malik]

I'm Rod Pyle, the long suffering editor in chief of Mad Astor magazine. And I'm joined by by that desktop space warrior himself, Tarek Malik, editor in [e-mail] Ahoy, lone combatant. How are you, sir?

[Rod Pyle]

I'm doing well, Rod. Happy Easter. Preview Easter episode.

[Tarek Malik]

Yeah.

[Rod Pyle]

How are you?

[Tarek Malik]

Easter we'll call it. Yeah. In a few minutes we'll be joined by Chief Master Sergeant John Benavena of the US Space Force, which is going to be fun. He's a really interesting guy, great to chat with, and he's going to educate us all about Space Force because I for one didn't know nearly as much about it as I should. But before we do that, please, you know what's coming. Don't forget to do us a solid. Make sure to like subscribe and other things on our various podcast venues because we're counting on you so we can keep doing this fantastic show. Okay, now, a space joke from our good friend of the show listener, Ken Kramer.

[Rod Pyle]

Hey, Tom. Ken. I just saw Ken. Okay, yes. Yeah, Ken. Yes. Yeah, I saw him at the conference I was at at neef.

[Tarek Malik]

Different Ken Kramer.

[Rod Pyle]

Oh, a different Ken.

[Tarek Malik]

Yeah, sorry.

[Rod Pyle]

Well, maybe I'll see you too soon, Ken.

[Tarek Malik]

Am. Er. Okay. Why did the Space Force Guardian get in trouble for bringing a pet to the space station?

[Rod Pyle]

I don't know. Why?

[Tarek Malik]

Because. Because he let his dog tag along for the launch. I like it.

[Rod Pyle]

I like it. No, it's good, it's good.

[Tarek Malik]

Now, I've heard that some people want to make us into dog tags when it's joke time in the show, but you can help by sending us your best worst in that case or Different Space Joke at Twistwit tv. And I have to tell you, Tark, our listeners, maybe they're upset with us because we haven't heard much in terms of space jokes. There's a few that are pretty consistent and by the way, if you're looking In Bennett Cerf's 101 Best Space Jokes, which I don't think exists, or on AI, we've seen those. So we're kind of looking for original stuff. Maybe you heard it from your dad years ago, or maybe you. You made it up yourself. Those are the best ones. So, yeah, let's. Let's step it up, guys.

[Rod Pyle]

He says, we're depending on you is what.

[Tarek Malik]

That's what I meant to say. We love you. We're depending on. You know, get with the program. That's in order. All right. Headlines.

[Rod Pyle]

Yes, it's a lot.

[Unknown]

Headline news.

[Rod Pyle]

Oh, I missed it again.

[Tarek Malik]

All right, Miss Australia, 1959. It's alive. So we have stories rippling through the press of possible life signatures found at the sun. So, conquest of space exoplanet K2 18 b, which is a suspected ocean, or Hycean, as they call them, world in a habitable zone, about 100 and a little over 100 light years away.

[Rod Pyle]

120.

[Tarek Malik]

That's fairly over 100, isn't it? Thought to be about two and a half times the size of Earth, notably. Although this story got a lot of pushback from certain outlets, mostly other science folks, notably, this was the second indication in a couple of years of the same signature. So just indulge me for a moment. These are possible signs of life, and emphasis on possible, found in the spectra of this exoplanet as it transited its host star. And these are spectrographic signatures of dimethyl sulfide, DMS and dimethyl disulfide, which on Earth are produced by algae and other microbes. Now, it's thought that this can also be abiotically produced, I. E. Without life. But due to the amount of it they found, they think they found in the atmosphere, which is a few million, I think a few million times what's found on Earth. Say, on Earth. And we got a lot of plankton and algae. On Earth, it's below one part per billion. And on this planet, they think it's 10 parts per million, which is a huge differential. So, you know, hope springs eternal that we may have found life elsewhere. But they, the science team themselves, who I'm hoping will get on the show, said they need a few more hours of observing time on the Webb Space Telescope to confirm. And I imagine that's pretty hard to get.

[Rod Pyle]

Yeah. Yeah. What a day to take the day off and take your daughter to the Smithsonian Museum. Air and Space Museum. That's where I was yesterday when this was all happening and people were calling me going, hey, hey, where's this story? Where's the [e-mail]?

[Tarek Malik]

Yeah, I care about you.

[Rod Pyle]

That's right. I was, I was just getting up from my lunch at Shake Shack at the museum when Rod is like, hey, what's going on with the story? So there is no rest for the weary space.

[Tarek Malik]

All right.

[Rod Pyle]

I did see Discovery for the first time though, at the, at the Udvar AZ Center. That was the first time I saw Discovery since it flew last. It was really nice to see because it's been 14 years. But anyway, this is exciting, but like you just said, like we have to be really skeptical because this was the James Webb Space Telescope, you know, is what they used to look at it. You would expect that if anything that is used or launched by NASA or its partners finds actual evidence of life, that NASA themselves would help announce it so well.

[Tarek Malik]

And talk about a way of restoring your science budget if it gets cut. I mean, really.

[Rod Pyle]

Yeah, yeah. So. But it, but it is, it is, it is, I guess I would say hopeful, you know, because as you mentioned, this isn't a new planet. Kepler K2 18b has been in the talks for the last few years about its potential to be, you know, a habitable planet. I think you and I have different size estimates for it. I have it pegged at nearly nine times more massive than Earth, but more mass.

[Tarek Malik]

I said size.

[Rod Pyle]

Oh, size. Okay, there you go. Yeah. And so, so, you know, it is, I think a bit encouraging that this, you know, relatively new instrument, I mean, it's been less than four years old with James Webb Space Telescope has, has looked at it in a different way to find what is a bit more promising presence of this, this DMS ch. Now we've actually had a few stories on this since 2023. In fact, we had one earlier this year in March about how tantalizingly attractive this planet is to host life. But how, we just still can't say conclusively one way or another. My only concern is that this ends up like the methane on Mars, which there's like a camp that says it has to be made by a biological substance and then another camp that says no, like you just said earlier, there are non biological processes to make this chemical signature, you know, and we won't really know about Mars until we actually go there. Going to K2 18B a lot harder, a lot harder than going to Mars to confirm what we, what it's going to be. So. Well, my, my hope is that you Know, we'll be able to get some more conclusive evidence to say one way or another what it is that will be undeniable in the signal from either James Webb or another equivalent that can help put it to bed a lot more simply. So it's not like this, this, you know, will they, what won't they type of situation on an alien planet, you know, for, for years to come. Well, and just life on Viking situation, you know.

[Tarek Malik]

Well, I was gonna say, yeah. Another similar story was when the Viking landers went down 1976. Within short order they had, they had their manipulator arms which were very interesting design, but I won't go into it. Go out, take soil samples, dump them into a trio of experiments. One of them showed a positive spike and the others didn't. And after a lot of battle between the head of the, of the life science project on that mission and one of the PIs on a particular experiment, there was a lot of acrimony between those two. In fact they, they almost went to blows at one point. Had to be pulled back by others. The guy who ran it was, it was a pretty starch collar kind of scientist. But you know, you, you guard your special interest.

[Rod Pyle]

Is that good or bad to have a starch collar?

[Tarek Malik]

In his case, he was just really tightly wound and saw things his way. And you know, this is 1976. So people are looking at all this, this exobiological life science through the lens of what we knew in 1976, which is very different than now. But my point here being that question for that the results of that experiment are still being debated. I debated, we think it was perchlorates in the soil reacting in a non biological way, but nobody really knows. And more recent tests of that experiment on Earth in places like the Atacama and with artificially prepared simulant seem to indicate that it might have actually found something. But we won't know for a long time. But let's move on. Glam is getting slammed for the flight of blue origin NS31. The oft referred to glam flight. The first billed widely as the first all female mission since Valentina Tereshkova in 1963. Which was a little bit of a headline stretch for me because when you say all female for Valentina Tereshkova, it's easy to be all female when you're the only person.

[Rod Pyle]

Only person on the capsule.

[Tarek Malik]

Yeah, but you know, it's a relevant point. So a crew of very high profile media figures went up and came back and had their 11 minutes of flight and you know, four to six minutes of weightlessness in the parabola. Suborbital.

[Rod Pyle]

I like how you dance around the fact that they launched Katy Perry to space.

[Tarek Malik]

You know, well, God knows you've addressed it enough. But here's the problem, you know, it's, it is if you're just talking about bare facts with no embellishment or set dressing. This was a tourist flight. Now, yes, sometimes science is performed on these suborbital hops. Sometimes some important stuff come out, comes out of it. This was, I think, by design primarily done for public relations, for advancing the cause, women in STEM, for a number of things which matter. But here's where the controversy got. Controversy got stood up because people were just going nuts on social media.

[Rod Pyle]

They still are.

[Tarek Malik]

On the one side we've got people saying these people aren't astronauts and that's an old conversation and this is just a stunt, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then we've got on the other side people, including a lot of very well intentioned, intelligent women, saying, look, this is a big step forward for STEM and so forth. So, you know, there's a certain validity to points of the arguments on both sides. But it really got very heated up and kind of nasty very quickly, which I expected some of that, but not to that degree. What did you think?

[Rod Pyle]

Yeah, I mean, you've heard me talk about this for the last few episodes about how surprised I was at the severe backlash because it is very unique to this flight in terms of both its veracity, its amplification as well. As opposed to the other what, the other 10 crude flights. I think this is the 11th crude flight, right, for Blue Origin that they did, including the one that Jeff Bezos launched on. But you know, as you said, I mean, the fact that this was largely a promotion, emotional flight in Blue Origin's aspect really was crystallized in the post flight interviews in which I believe that Katy Perry was asked if she recommended it. And of course she did. She recommended it, gave it a 10 out of 10 and felt that everyone should do it. And that's Blue Origin's ad right there. You know, Katy Perry says you should go to space, but you know, most of us can't afford it. You have to put $150,000 down just to ask how much it costs to do a ticket. And Blue Origin will not tell you what the ticket prices are. But that, you know, that's, that's a whole industry look at it. You know, this, you know, this was essentially a tourist flight, I believe Amanda Nguyen, the bioastronaux engineer and activist on the flight, I think that she did do two experiments she said while she was on the flight, either that she took with her or whatnot in the interview. But the blowback has been very, very audible. In fact, I was just reading another story, I believe in the Times today in their culture section about kind of what a waste of time it was and, and you know, everyone fawning over 11 minutes of space travel and whatnot. It's still very surprising to me. In fact, some of the, the YouTubers I follow who only cover movies were covering this flight about how much they hated it, which was really surprising to me. So. No, I, I get the criticism that this was a tourist flight and it was made out to be more than it was Katy Perry and Gayle King kissing the ground, you know, thankful to be back on Earth after 11 minutes could be a little bit much. Right. Considering that what the astronauts, the starliner astronauts were up to for eight months, you know, over it. Over, over eight months planned. So, you know, and they were criticized for having their designer spacesuits too, or flight suits. The months flight suits that they had.

[Tarek Malik]

Can I make a comment on that? You know. Yeah, they didn't do themselves any favors with some of the pr.

[Rod Pyle]

Yeah. With the L. You mean the L cover for glam and space.

[Tarek Malik]

I mean, well, and, and the poses after, before and after. You know, those suits were, I mean they were I think standard blue origin suits. But.

[Rod Pyle]

No, no, they're not. The blue origin ones are made out of polyester.

[Tarek Malik]

Yeah.

[Rod Pyle]

And they're, and they, and they're, they're, they're made out of, you know, they're made out of kind of jump. A polyester jumpsuit material. These are made out of a stretch flame resistant neoprene that are, that are tailored specifically. Okay.

[Tarek Malik]

I thought they looked a little better than before.

[Rod Pyle]

Yeah, they got flared. They got flared, flared pant legs. They've, they're, they're designed to be much more comfortable and whatnot, so.

[Tarek Malik]

Well, and as a fashion statement.

[Rod Pyle]

Exactly.

[Tarek Malik]

I would say. Which, which may not have. I mean, you know, you just have to know when you're going into these things. Why they didn't ask you and I, I just am not sure right. Have to know going into these things.

[Rod Pyle]

I'm a wonderful personality.

[Tarek Malik]

I don't know about you that, that you're, you know, you're painting a target on your back and it's just, it's just tough. So, you know, I hope this simmers down and that the maximum benefit can be extracted from it, but probably no time soon. All right, and we have some, I guess, relatively breaking news about.

[Rod Pyle]

Yeah, this happened.

[Tarek Malik]

Northrop Grumman. That's terrible.

[Rod Pyle]

Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Yesterday or actually Wednesday, there was an explosion at Northrop Grumman's test site out in Promontory, Utah, which we just got some photos from the sheriff's department out, and it fully destroyed one of their buildings out there. And of course, this is where Northrop Grumman tests their solid rocket motors, the ones that they built for the space shuttle, the big ones that they're building for sls. But there isn't any word about what was going on at the building there. But we do know there were no injuries, no fatalities, so at least there's that to be thankful for. But it is curious to kind of find out what was going on there. Doesn't seem like any Artemis hardware for at least the next two flights were affected because Artemis 2, they've stacked it already and which launches next year in 2026, as we're recording this. And I believe they've already completed or shipped the segments for Artemis 3 as well. So it is just kind of something that we know happened. They're going to look into it. They've lost an entire building. What building that was, we don't know. And what the extent of, of the blowback or the setbacks that it might create for their, their solid rocket motor industry, you know, we're not sure they make more than the SRBs, you know, they make motors for missiles and all of that type of thing as well. So, you know, it's unclear, but clearly something went very, very wrong. And I think it's just good to know that no one was at least injured in it and hopefully they'll get to the bottom of what happened and avoid that from happening again.

[Tarek Malik]

Yeah, that wouldn't be good. All right, well, we are going to go to a quick break and we are going to be back in just a moment with Chief Master Sergeant John Benavena of the U.S. space Force. Stay with us.

[Unknown]

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[Tarek Malik]

And we are back with Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania. And I've always wanted to say that Chief Master Sergeant of the U.S. space Force John, thank you for joining us today. Hello.

[Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania]

Hey, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. I'm excited.

[Tarek Malik]

So just for me, because I'm a total Moron. When it comes to military, you could tell I never served. What does a Chief Master Sergeant do? What is that role?

[Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania]

So my official title is Chief Master Sergeant of the Space Force. So I am the most senior enlisted member of the service. And I have counterparts like the Sergeant Major of the army, the Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy. So all the services have a senior enlisted that work directly for the service Chief. Or in my particular case, I work for the Chief of Space Operations directly, General Saltzman. So in my role, you know, I've been doing this for almost 31 years. You know, I take my kind of military experience, my space operations experience, and I advise General Saltzman on the development, the employment and the strategy to make sure that guardians, I call it the guardian experience, that guardians in the United States Space Force have an experience that they feel valued, that they're challenged or developed and really to kind of get after the needs of the nation. So I provide them primarily in a lot of enlisted stuff. But, but I like to say that my responsibility doesn't stop at stripes. Whether you're wearing stars, whether you're wearing stripes, or whether you're wearing a suit. As a civilian, I'm concerned about your experience as a guardian. So those are some of the things I advise them on.

[Tarek Malik]

Okay.

[Rod Pyle]

And Chief, I mean, I'm just curious about you, you yourself as like a person. Because, you know, I was, I was reading your, your bio. I know that you, I guess you joined the air Force in 94, or at least entered the academy in 94, but the space Force is much younger than that. I think you shifted over in, in 2020. So I'm curious what that path was like for you, you know, as a, as a, as a member of the service. You know, I mean, was that always an ambition, you know, as, as a, as a youth to enter service or. The Air Force was attractive. And then of course, Space Force started. What was that path like for you?

[Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania]

Yeah, so, you know, I, I tell the story that, you know, quite honestly it was early 90s when I enlisted into the. And you know, there was patriotism that was involved in that. But also it was, I was trying to make something of myself. You know, my kind of personal story. I got married in the month of May and went to boot camp in August. So only a couple months later, so I tell General Saltzman, who's a phenomenal, phenomenal teammate, that though he may be a four star general, my wife Kathy outranks him just by time and grade. But I enlisted and I did it for four years because I wanted to try and make something myself. But you know, I tell the story that that initial four year contract, if you will, as an enlisted member wound up turning into a lifetime commitment. I just really enjoyed serving. I enjoyed the challenges that service provided me, allowed me to do things I never got a chance that I thought I would do. And so I stayed in. And when I first came in, I was a maintainer actually. You know, I worked on test equipment for the United States Air Force and did that for a couple of years, then transitioned into do being an enlisted space operator. And in 98 I went to tech school out in Vandenberg at the time Air Force Base and learned how to do space operations and got into the space business. And my first job was watching dots for the dsp, the Defense Support Program out at Buckley Air National Guard Base at the time, back in the late 90s. And that started my space career. And I've loved having a chance to do that for many, many years. So when the Space Force was established, since I've been doing space operations in the United States Air Force, the transition opportunity to continue that work that I believed in, but also that the challenge and opportunity to stand up a new service and help build a foundation for generations of guardians to come. I jumped at the chance. And to your point, it was one September of 2020 that I transitioned over. And that was the first day that we were authorized to do the transition. So myself and several hundred of my closest friends who are all doing space operations, all transitioned on the 1st of September, 2020.

[Rod Pyle]

Wow, that's awesome. And when you were choosing to enlist, I mean, why pick the Air Force? I guess at that beginning, I mean, if there were other services, was there like a family tradition or was it like the one branch that really grabbed you? Was it something you're always interested in since you were a kid?

[Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania]

Yeah, so actually it was a little bit of what opportunities kind of were out there. My father was a Marine in World War II. You know, I have other family members that served in the army and other branches. But for me personally, what I was looking to, I was looking for kind of a skill and something interested me. And all the services have their unique culture and really right ethos that they build. And it was what the Air Force. I was a precision measurement equipment laboratory technician. P. MAL is what they call it. And when I talked to the Air Force recruiter and he, he gave me this name and kind of talked about what I would do and I called my father at the time and I said, hey, Dad, I talked to the Air Force recruiter today and this is a job that he said that I could do and go to school for. And he goes, take it. That's a great job. You know, you learn a skill, you're really going to enjoy working in the laboratory, calibrating test equipment and, and that's kind of, that's kind of what got me, you know, into the Air Force originally.

[Rod Pyle]

That's awesome.

[Tarek Malik]

So I have first a selfish personal question and then I'll get to this back to the show where first of all, you don't look nearly old enough to have a father who was in World War II. I mean, my father was World War II era, so kudos to your good genes. Where was he deployed in the. I assume.

[Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania]

Yeah, so my father, when he served, it was later, later in the war. So he was part of the, you know, quote unquote occupation force that was in Japan. So a lot of the photographs that I have, my father passed years ago, but most of the photographs are him working in kind of the police occupation force around Japan and Tokyo when he served later on in the war and then came back. But by the time he got in, most of the combat in the Pacific.

[Tarek Malik]

Was already over, was probably a good thing. So what was your first reaction when you heard the announcement about the space force being stood up? Because it was kind of a. Yeah, you know, we had heard some inklings of it, but it's like, what is this? And you know, gee, the way, the way it was described in some circles was we're going to have guardians and tie fighters slugging it out with the bad guys in space. And in other circles it was a little more temperate of, you know, we're basically going to be observing satellites and protecting our interests in orbit and so forth.

[Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania]

Yeah, it was exciting because as you know, right there was, you know, Washington was a little undecided on where we were to go, whether or not we could afford and whether or not there was momentum and understanding, if you will, whether or not we needed a separate service. So when we finally got the word and that it was going to happen, I was pretty excited because I said, I've been doing this work for a while and I was fortunate enough to kind of see the evolution of where we were going in the domain and that from a military perspective, that there were some concerning activities that were happening, especially for some of our competitors that were making it, you know, a war fighting domain. And I can say that freely now, you know, that space is war fighting Domain as independent service. But I spent many years doing space operations and seeing what was happening, you know, whether, you know, whether it be the. I think it was, you know, back in 2007 maybe when, you know, China first did that ASAP, when they blew up. We know the function, weather satellite and some of the other activities, whether it be ground based lasers, jammers, experiencing that and seeing it for so many years, but getting be able to talk about it in the open, but also educating the public and our elected officials that hey, there's some concerning things happening there. And it was kind of an acknowledgement when the service was stood up, which really allowed us to have this discussion and allow us to as a, as a separate service now to really focus on that because I believe in it. You know, when I, when I talk about, you know, our mission statement, right, Secure our nation's interests in, from our true space, I think that's really important. And you know, I get the opportunity to engage and talk to youth. I try to go to schools when I can and talk to whoever will give me an opportunity to talk about what we do. And I do that not because I'm trying to recruit people into uniform, but I do it because I say that the domain, our opportunities, the potential that space provides is unlimited. And that as a service, freedom of maneuver and access to space. So I say this so that explorers can explore, dreamers can dream, innovators can innovate. I just want to play my role as a guardian because I know that it's a contested domain, but I want to make sure that we have the ability to take advantage of it. I mean, it's just kind of amazing when you think about where we are. You know, I use the analogy. My wife and I went on a cruise out of Miami last year, went out in the Caribbean into international waters. And I say I was not standing on the side of the boat with binoculars, right, Fearful of pirates coming on the boat. Because I knew that the Navy of the world, led by the U.S. navy, were protecting and securing, you know, lanes, sea lanes of transit and commerce. That allowed me to take a vacation. It allowed the company to invest and build the boat. It allowed individuals who are making a career to work on the boat and for that whole economic right and way of life to exist. I want individuals, when they think about the Space Force and our ability to travel, take advantage, whether it be tourism, space, cargo, travel out beyond the moon to Mars and say that we're able to do that because the guardians of the Space Force secure the nation's interest in from a two space that that's kind of so you know, all that wrapped up when the service stood up. That's what I'm thinking about. I'm like, I'm excited to be part of it.

[Tarek Malik]

Very well put, sir. We will be right back after the short break with Tarek's next burning question. Stand by.

[Unknown]

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[Rod Pyle]

Well Chief, you know, I think you actually got my question coming up ahead of time because as we're speaking. No, it's quite all right. As we're speaking, the Space Force just celebrated its fifth anniversary, fifth birthday if you will. And I guess you're coming up on your five year anniversary later this year then. Congratulations ahead for that. And there might be some folks who don't really understand like what it is that the Space Force as a branch does and you touched on a bit of them. But you know what? I guess just for for the folks that maybe aren't as either as versed or as you know, they're just not as attentive in just how the military works. What is it that the Space Force itself really, you know, aims at either safeguarding in terms of assets for civilian use, military use and you know, I guess what gets you going to work here every morning to oversee all of your responsibilities there.

[Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania]

Yeah, absolutely. So what gets me up every day are the Guardians and their families like, you know, these men and women who are doing the things that they do, serving, wearing a cloth of our nation and making the sacrifices and accepting the challenges that what, you know, what service means. So it's the men and women that get me up every day. But from the service perspective, you know, the things that I believe and that they're doing, right, I'm sitting in an office and I'm having a chance to hang out with you guys, right? In an afternoon, they're out working in windowless rooms, taking care of the nation's business. But what is that, to your point, right, from the Space Force perspective? So there's, we kind of bucket. There's three core functions, if you will, within the Space Force. The one is assured space access. You know, that's, you know, us, our ability to be able to have national security launches. You know, at Cape Canaveral, Patrick, last year I think we had 93 launches where we're going to break 100 this year. I know it. You know, we have the, you know, on the west coast we have Vandenberg Space Force Base, you know, we have tracking stations that enable and help. Right. Launch, right. So assured space access, you know, not only is it vital from a national security perspective, but from a. From a financial perspective, we want to have a robust space industry within the United States and the ranges and our ability to provide that infrastructure, you know, range of the future going out, you know, you know, the direction that we're going. So that's one of the core functions that we do, assured space access. One of the other things we do is global space operations. So and that's something that a lot of it I did as well as an airman for many years. And that's your making sure that GPS right position, navigation and timing. That entire Constellation, right, that entire ecosystem is, is owned and executed by the Space Force, Guardians of Space Force. Right now, right? There are young guardians sitting in the windowless room at Shriver Space Force Base that are monitoring that Constellation. Constellation making sure that the PNT that not only our war fighters and coalition partners rely on, but the agricultural sector, the financial sector, the transportation sector, that entire Ecosystem is built right on the sustainability and accuracy of PNT and a GPS Constellation, military satcom, space based missile warning and Earth monitoring. Space domain awareness. As you know, my teammate, Colonel Nick Hague just came back from the space station last month. One of the things we do as space domain awareness is to make sure that the 47,000 or so objects that are orbiting Earth as a space force, we're tracking those using worldwide sensors and we're sharing that data with commercial partner nations and NASA as a fact. So you know, global space operations is really the core which enables the war fighter to be more lethal, but also supports and enables the economy of the United States. The third, this is the other core function. This is the one as why we were established as a space force is what we call space control. For us to provide space superiority. This is really where we talk about our ability to ensure freedom of maneuver and action on our own timing and tempo within the space domain, but also denying any kind of adversary the ability to do the same. So we say, okay, what is it we do as a space force? It's assured space access, global space operations, which we all do those two very well. And really where we're moving and making investments is going to be space control and our ability to provide space superiority to the nation and our allies. So from the guardians that I love and I get up every day for, that's the work that they're doing day.

[Rod Pyle]

In and day out, we should clarify real quick. Guardians, that's the term for the service members in the Space Force, right? As opposed to like.

[Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania]

Yeah, yeah, yes.

[Tarek Malik]

Which is way cooler than airmen. Just, just in my opinion.

[Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania]

Yeah, I love it, I love it.

[Tarek Malik]

So I think it's worth mentioning that, that if I understand correctly, I've written about this a number of times, you know, when you look at the vast impact that orbital assets have on our lives. You mentioned gps. There's tracking ships at sea, there's tracking cargo moving in trucks and, and trains. There's agriculture, you know, tracking crop health and, and planting cycles and so forth. Banking transactions are often handled by satellite. All kinds of communications, including video. I mean, the list goes on and on and on. And if that suddenly got switched off one afternoon by some bad guy, our economy would come to a grinding halt and much of the things that a lot of us depend on day to day would suddenly just stop. That is all part of your domain, correct?

[Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania]

Yes, it is, 100%. And that's why when we talk about the amount of investment and focus on global space operations, all the Things that you just talked about is vitally important because, you know, from a supporting function, making sure the economy stays strong, making sure that the nation remains safe, but also that our joint war fighters rely on a lot of that capability as well. And that's why we still do that today. And we've considered those inherently military functions, which is why on the space superiority, space control side, our ability to what we call protect and defend, right. So that no one has the ability to take away those functions from us and be able to protect and defend them. That kind of leads into the space priority, space control aspect of the mission set because, you know, for many years it was kind of a benign environment. Like we were building, you know, these billion dollar satellites the size of buses. Right. And you know, one of my favorite teammates here in the Space Force, Lieutenant General Deanna Burch, she's our elite operator for the service, you know, you should call me. These big fat juicy targets that are just sitting up in space because when we designed and launched them, we were not necessarily thinking about a contested domain, but it has become that. So now we have to think a little differently and how we, you know, with proliferated constellations and resiliency and all the things that go into that kind of war fighting domain.

[Tarek Malik]

And I think just one more follow up, Tarek. When Space Force was announced, a number of us were a little confused about what, what was going to be different. Of course, you know, it's an independent service and all that, so that makes sense. But having spent a little bit of time around Space Command, I wasn't clear on exactly what the difference was between Space Force's role and what Space Command for the Air Force had been doing for years before that.

[Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania]

Yeah, you know, it's really actually interesting that you asked me that question. I was just in Colorado Springs, I think it was last week for the Space Symposium. You guys ever. Do you guys attend the Space Imposing now, the Broadmoor Coliseum?

[Rod Pyle]

Oh yeah, my colleague Brett was there last week. I was. So I had a lot of fomo because that's one of my favorite conferences to be able to go to.

[Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania]

Yeah, it's a phenomenal conference. I mean, Space foundation does a phenomenal job. You know, Heather Pringle out there, the CEO, so long relationship with, you know, with the space community in the Air Force and now at the Space Force. But anyway, at the closing dinner on Thursday evening at the Broadmoor, they did a fireside chat with myself as the, as the chief master in the Space Force and Chief Master Jacob Simmons, who is the command senior listed leader for U.S. space Command. And part of the discussion to the audience was the difference between what does a service do and what does the Combatant Command do? Because we put space in a lot of things, right. A lot of titles and words. And it was our, you know, because we get this question quite often. So we figured, hey, the two most senior enlisted individuals. Jake is also a guardian, a longtime mentor of mine. So we got up on stage and we did a fireside chat and we kind of talked exactly through that. So when you talk about the distinction between the both, you know, a lot of times they say the services organize, train and equip. So what does that mean? We recruit guardians, we train and we develop them, we prepare them, we give them the war fighter ethos. We also make investments and build and purchase, Right. The capabilities that the Combatant Command needs. Those are to organize, train and equip. But also it's teaching the guardians, preparing them that they can command and control, they can integrate these capabilities into the larger joint force. And then we present those, if you will, to the Combatant Command. And then under the authorities of General Whiting, who's the commander of U.S. space Command will execute and command and control the forces we. So there is a kind of a distinct difference in roles and responsibilities. They're closely linked, especially because of, you know, how we were established so close together both in 2019. General Raymond was dual hatted at one point for both organizations, but there is clear delineation. But as a service, we are just trained and equipped, but we also are responsible to train and develop, to make sure we can execute war fighting capabilities as we present that to the Combat Command under General Whiting's authority as a combatant Commander. And I'm not moving to Colorado and I'm not moving to Alabama. I am stationed in the Pentagon. And I get that. Asked that question quite a bit, too.

[Tarek Malik]

I've never seen the Pentagon, but it looks like an amazing place.

[Rod Pyle]

I think this is the first time we could say that. We're coming live from the Pentagon. Right, right, right.

[Tarek Malik]

Yeah, we got to have that in the promo. Okay, Tarek, I know you.

[Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania]

This is a museum. You guys want to come check it out, let me know. But there's a lot of phenomenal things to see here in the building.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Tarek Malik]

Finally, we got a benefit from doing this podcast. Okay, I know Tarek's got a big question coming up, so let's take a quick break. We'll be right back. Standby.

[Unknown]

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[Rod Pyle]

You know Chief I really appreciate kind of the overview of what the Space Force does. And it seemed like really apro, apropos, apro, very good timing that you're here with us for this interview because this week as we were talking, before we started recording, General Saltzman, you know, Chief of Space Operations, released the space warfighting framework for the Space Force. And, and I was burning to ask you about like how important having a framework like that was because I guess one would assume as you just detailed like all of the different buckets that the Space Force goes on to really keep all of us in, in the technology that I think maybe we take for granted that is in space on our daily lives, you know, keep all of that working. But, but I'm curious how a document like this new framework either consolidates or crystallizes a lot of things, because as it says kind of here in the description that it establishes the common lexicon for counter space operations, which sounds pretty exciting, but it details both the offensive and defensive actions that guardians can do, basically what their actions can be to oversee that space domain there. But I guess what type of, I guess what's the role of a document like this in day to day operations for guardians, you know, as things change or occur in space?

[Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania]

Yeah, so thanks for the question. You know, we've had phenomenal couple years, you know, like we said earlier, we're just, you know, you know, five and a half years old, you know, almost. And so there's so many foundational things. As a service only five years into this journey, you know, we get compared a lot to the other services. When you think about, you know, I think the army and the Marine Corps are gonna be 250 years old, you know, this year, and, and they have battlefield wartime lessons learned, examples, proven doctrine, like all those things that kind of build out. When you think about a military professional, when you think about, you know, doctrine and, and war fighting architectures. Right. There's a lot there from the Space Force perspective, you know, you know, one, we're only five and a half years old, if you will, and we've never necessarily, we've never had war in space and we don't want that either. Right, but what are the documents like the, like the war fighting construct that we put out to kind of talk about from an integration planning perspective to communicate to the broader joint and coalition audience of what are the capabilities, what's the common lexicon or the terms of reference when you're thinking about operational planning, when you think about what the Space Force can do or Also more importantly, when you think about the Space Force, how do you ask for capabilities? What are the questions you ask? How do you frame those? So that we can integrate into the Joint Force is really important because we just don't have a lot of the history that it's presumptive that everyone understands it. Right. So capturing our thoughts on terms of reference lexicon. What does space superiority mean? What does defensive space operations mean? What does defensive cyber operations mean from the service perspective? And kind of baselining across the Joint Force is really important. And I'll be honest, that's not only an external message, but it's also an internal message as well. Right. Young guardians across the Space Force should be reading these documents so they understand why they go to work every day. Why am I working at 3am on a Saturday looking at data coming down off of a sensor for space domain awareness? Why is that important? What's the war fighting construct? Where do I see myself in the larger ecosystem? So, you know, we've done the warfighting construct you said came out. We also put out earlier this month Space Force Doctrine document one, which also. Right. Kind of encapsulates a lot of the papers and speeches and thoughts that General Saltzman specifically has had the last couple years in a formalized document that now individuals can read and reference and kind of talk about the who we are and what we do. So, you know, it's been a phenomenal couple years, but these official documents really help solidify, communicate to a broader audience and also some internally, what are we doing and how are we getting after? Especially if we talk about the space priority space control perspective, because we really haven't done that in a wartime environment. But what are we planning for, how do we talk about it and how do we integrate it? That's why those documents are so important.

[Rod Pyle]

Yeah, I guess in an emergency you don't want to have to be coming up with that stuff on the fly. So it sounds like it's good to have that like already written down.

[Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania]

That's right.

[Tarek Malik]

So we've seen recent, in fact we reported I think last week on a Russian satellite, yet another Cosmos, which means they're not going to tell us what it is that from which a small mass appeared to detach and maybe start heading towards some of our orbital assets. And of course we've seen this before with both the, the Russians and the Chinese. I assume this is something you track with great care other than changing the trajectory or the orbit of one of our satellites. If something is threatened that's vitally Important what, what can you do and what, what steps might be taken in the future to make, make these kind of assets more defensible.

[Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania]

Yeah. So, you know, this is kind of the broader discussion about what are norms of behavior in space. Like, what are the international norms like? We have pretty, pretty good, you know, documented and implemented, you know, norms, behavior at sea, maritime sea law, you know, you know, FAA and air traffic control, you know, like, you know, there are things that pretty much people understand what is right, what is wrong. And there's enforcing ecosystems. Right. That allow that to kind of operate effectively in the space domain. To your point, what is responsible behavior if you're going to have an RPO or rendezvous proximity operations, what is a safe distance, is that considered aggressive, is it not? These are all kind of discussions that we're kind of having. So, so a lot of the systems, to your point, when they were designed for an environment where we were not necessarily worrying about those things. But why it's so important now with the future systems that the situation has changed. So what counteraction defensive capabilities do we have for them? We don't have maneuver without regret. Now. There's some, we have a couple of refueling demos that we're going to do. But as you know, right. The physics of orbit, you're a little limited on what you can do there. There are some maneuvers that you can do, but for the most part, one of the most important things is us from a space domain awareness perspective that when these activities occur, one that we're aware of it. There is no what General Saltzman talks about operational surprise, that we are witting what is happening in the domain. There's attribution. We know who is doing it, which is also extremely important. So, you know, what do we do about the first things we got to be able to know that it's happening and we have to have attribution. Right. So kind of that no operational surprise as these things occur. But this also goes into the other discussion about protect and defend. What are our capabilities to protect and defend our resources and assets, you know, on orbit, other than attribution, a strongly worded demarcation against another nation, calling them out. Right. For irresponsible behavior. But this goes into, you know, I think, you know, General Whiting at his speech at Space Symposium last Monday, I think it was, as a combatant commander, talked about, you know, fires from, you know, fires and maneuvers in space and weapons in space, basically. Right. But when you say weapons. Right. Weapons are not inherently offensive or defensive. Right. It's how you employ them. Right. But we have to have the ability to protect and defend the resources of which we rely on. But not only from an economic perspective, but also from a war fighting perspective. So those are some of the discussions and you said when you. Some of these, you know, activities that are occurring, we got to understand that are happening. We have to have that we know who's doing it attribution and then working to make sure that we have ttps, tactics, techniques and procedures to do whatever we can, but also have the systems in order to protect and defend national assets.

[Tarek Malik]

So I'll just bet you guys get some interesting mails and emails from people that have ideas about defensive systems. And one for that file which I found years ago I was working on a book about space age chapter about the lunar module, Grumman, Grumman's lunar module from Apollo. And there was one supposed study by Grumman aircraft which I have never been able to, to actually vet fully. So it's a little suspect. But supposedly when the Grumman folks were trying to figure out ways to extend the life of the Lunar Module Beyond 19, 1972 in the Apollo program, I mean they were going to use parts of it to do the Apollo telescope mount on, on Skylab. But my favorite one was an orbital, a crude orbital spacecraft that would be able to rendezvous with Russian satellites and spray paint their cameras, which I thought was a pretty cool. It's not even a weapon. It's more like a nuisance, I guess, right?

[Rod Pyle]

Yeah.

[Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania]

Yeah. I wonder what the per diem rate would be when you file your voucher for that job. That's got to be crazy. Yeah. When you think about. Here's the other thing too, when we talk about space superiority, space control, and what are the measures we can take to kind of deny an adversary their ability to kind of maneuver free within the domain. You know, some of those actions are not limited to domain. Right? There, there's, there's kind of three segments. When you think about space operations, right? There's the on orbit asset and you know, to your point about, you know, that Russian vehicle that was maneuvering maybe close to one of our, one of our resources. There's the link, right? There's got to be a command and control, right? There's that, you know, the EW spectrum and there's a ground station somewhere, right? I mean, so when you think about the ground station, the link and the on orbit asset, when we're trying to solve a hard problem, guardians are thinking maybe to provide the effect that we need isn't necessarily in the domain. There's other things that we can do. And you know, that's why there's a lot of research on analysis, our intelligence operators, where I try to understand the entire ecosystem and infrastructure of anything that we need to be concerned about because we're not just going to be limited to the on orbit perspective. There's a lot of ways to skin that cat, if you will.

[Tarek Malik]

All right, we will be back in just a moment. Don't go anywhere.

[Unknown]

You know, when you're really stressed or not feeling so great about your life or about yourself, talking to someone who understands can really help. But who is that person? How do you find them? Where do you even start? Talkspace. Talkspace makes it easy to get the support you need. With Talkspace you can go online, answer a few questions about your preferences, and be matched with a therapist. And because you'll meet your therapist online, you don't have to take time off work or arrange childcare. You'll meet on your schedule wherever you feel most at ease. If you're depressed, stressed, struggling with a relationship, or if you want some counseling for you and your partner, or just need a little extra one on one support, Talkspace is here for you. Plus, Talkspace works with most major insurers and most insured members have a $0 copay. No insurance, no problem. Now get $80 off of your first month with promo code space80 when you go to talkspace.com match with a licensed therapist today at talkspace.com save $80 with code [e-mail].

[Rod Pyle]

Yeah, you know, I was really curious, you know, in the early days of the space age, right, There was a bit of a, I don't want to say if it was like a scramble, but it seems like each branch of the US Military services like had their own plan for how to, how to use space, you know, where, you know, either the army had plans for reconnaissance or, or the Air Force is like, yes, obviously we're going to have pilots, so we should get domain over space. But having an actual space force, you know, that, that has kind of a really clear picture like you outlined earlier, you know, defined, I guess in what is this, the 21st century now? You know, it seems to make a lot of sense. But I'm curious if kind of similar to those early days where maybe there might have been a lot of infighting over who gets what domain, have there been any challenges to the space forces, you know, organization or outreach to get its message understood? And I'm curious You know what, you know, like, like what your answer to that, you know, was to kind of make sure that things continue going smoothly.

[Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania]

Yeah. You know, as an example, when the service set up the first couple years, there was an assessment of what, what investments the other services were making that kind of fell within the roles and responsibilities of the Space Force. And a lot of, a lot of capabilities were transferred from other services into the Space Force. As an example, the army had what they call the JTAG system, which was a kind of a tactical theater level missile warning capability that they own the equipment and the soldiers were trained to execute that. When the service Space Force stood up, the army transferred that mission and equipment over to us. You know, on the Navy side, you know, the Navy uses the MUOS narrowband Constellation for sea communication. That mission set came over to the Space Force and the army again, they used the, I'm trying to think, the wideband Global Constellation system, the wgs, who, they use a lot of wideband and they had ground stations, WISOX wide band satellite operations centers where they had soldiers stationed and they would divvy up the bandwidth. Right. To make sure the soldiers in the theater had satellite communications. That mission came over to the Space Force. So there was an initial assessment of the services all kind of had a little bit of space and then what made sense to kind of come into the service. But even today there's still investment for some tactical capability. You know, for example, on the army side, a multi, multi domain task force, MDTF that they're investing in. They have some space capabilities that will be organic and inherent to the army because they also understand the value of what space brings, but it's integrated to their tactical schema maneuver. So it's not necessarily, hey, you're going to leverage it, but it's not a Space Force necessarily mission, but it's a space capability that's going to be organic to the army and they're going to maintain that we use it. Again, we think about pilots. The Air Force isn't the only branch with pilots and aircraft. So right. There are some things that are kind of naturally belong to the Space Force, as we kind of went through this, but also an acknowledgement, we talked about how important the domain is. You know, space capabilities underpins lethality of all the services. There are some investments in some things that services will continue to do. But I think when you think about space superiority, specifically in space control, in the domain freedom of maneuver in the domain that is squarely within the realm and responsibility of the Space Force.

[Rod Pyle]

Yeah, you know, I'm curious what how far that domain, you know, you see it expanding because as we know, you know, NASA, with their Artemis program, wants to send astronauts back to the moon that hopefully that happens in the next couple of years. But unlike in, you know, maybe the first space race where there was, was, you know, one other competitor, the Soviet Union at the time to get there, you've got many other nations that are all trying to get to the moon to use it for, for different ways. And I'm curious what role you see the Space Force playing in either lunar exploration, lunar security, search and rescue, you know, that kind of a thing. Because it seems like if your domain is space, it just keeps going forever once you get off the Earth, even though we use most of the assets here on the ground.

[Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania]

Ground, yeah. You know, for many years, the lexicon, when we talked about space, there was like this glass ceiling, if you would, at geostationary, right. The 22,000 miles up out where a lot of our communication satellites are. And that was kind of seen for many years in the circles operationally that I worked in as kind of like the edge of space. But boy, has that changed. To your point Cislunar, where I think about just activity on the moon alone, I think over the last at least six or seven months, right. Non nation sponsored, like commercial are landing on the moon. Now when you think about Jared Isaac, he did this personal commercial spacewalk, think about where we are. So the domain to your point is really expanding. And to kind of think of 22,000 miles as kind of like the edge of space is no longer the case. So from a Space Force perspective, you know, we are looking as more and more individuals are, you know, going out to cislunar pass to the grain points. You know, what is our ability to maintain space domain awareness? What is our, what are the technologies and the research and development we have to do there, you know, to help align. Right. You know, especially as NASA and other civil agencies project and reach further out into the stars. There's going to be a role for the Space Force to play there. But yeah, I mean, where does it end? It doesn't. Right. And that's the exciting part of this job is that trying to have guardians think about our role in those dreamers and explorers, that they're going to rely on us to make sure they can freely maneuver and take advantage advantage of that. So wherever, you know, national interests expand out to, that will be where the Space Force expands out to as well.

[Tarek Malik]

You know, Tarek, I'm beginning to get the feeling his job is a whole lot more interesting and enjoyable than ours and the benefits are probably much better. Yeah, we, we need to have a conversation. We have, of course, no qualifications to do anything like that. But that doesn't, I'll be an observer right along. That's like when we wanted to be astronauts, we were young. So here's a question that's been bugging me for, gosh, decades. I'm sure it bugs you guys too. Are there any preventative or defensive measures that one can take against something like an emp, which has always been, sorry, that's an electromagnetic pulse weapon. So you send a small nuke up to space, it goes boom over a country and everybody's electrical grid and all their electronics go down, down. At least that's what they say in fiction. I think it's a little dressed up. But how serious is that? And, and how do you address something like that?

[Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania]

So, you know, for many years, you know, I've, I have worked in facilities that were EMP hardened, if you will, like, right. Like I've, I've walked through the, the brass plated doors with the contacts that are grounded and you know, with the signs that don't step on the contacts, right. Because they got to stay clean and fresh and make sure we have to close that door.

[Tarek Malik]

Right.

[Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania]

To, to protect the internals from EMP on the ground is really important. You know, several of our on orbit assets, right, that are strategic in nature are designed to be EMP hardened, if you will. The challenge with that, whether you're on the ground or on orbit, it's expensive and it's really hard to do. So are there ways, strategies to kind of protect yourselves from empowerment? Yes, and we have some things, we've made some progress, we have made grounds, some strides there. But when you think about the cost of launch, every ounce, every pound matters. And we talk about where we are with proliferated constellations and the number of payloads per launch has just exploded with esper rings. Think about Starlink, right? And the dozens of, you know, microsatellites that they put on orbit all the time. It's kind of hard to have EMP hardening, right, in that kind of construct because it's supposed to be replenished. But when you think about some of the challenges and you know, I don't know if you're trying to allude to some of the reports on Russia and you know, maybe putting on some capabilities on orbit or thinking about, you know, having nuclear capability as a, as an offensive or just A weapon in general, it would have a devastating impact. Right to your point. Unlike, you know, it's physics, right? So there, you know, whether it be commercial, civil or military, you know, whether it be Leo Meo or geo orbit, there's going to be a lot of collateral damage. And it would, you know, be able to recover from that from a global perspective would just be unthinkable. We talked earlier. Space provides such infrastructure to make us as effective and efficient as we are in agriculture, in finance and transportation, safety, power grids, in cities, all that would be at risk if there's irresponsible behavior in the context of any kind of EMP or nuclear device in the orbit. So hopefully like that's something we never have to come to. There is some protection that we were able to do. But you know, for large and most part, when you think about what we rely upon, what is in orbit, you know, large proponents would not be secured and protected from, from an emp.

[Tarek Malik]

Something to aspire to change the subject here. One of the things I remember when Space Force was first being announced, announced, one of the things Tarek and I spent time doing was disabusing people the notion that this was going to look like Battlestar Galactica with guys and vipers flying around, shooting at each other in orbit. But I assume this is a two part question. First is I assume that part of your long range planning is for, for crewed space flight. And if so would there be a role somewhat like a space Coast Guard at some point where you're guarding the lane and cislunar space and so forth.

[Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania]

Yeah, you know we haven't had really too many discussions on that. But I think part of it is, you know, watching where civil and commercial go. You know, when you think about, you know, commercial flights today, right, when there's NASA's launching, right, the military from a, you know, recovery, if you will, especially back in the, you know, back terrestrial once they come back in the atmosphere, you know, we, the actually the United States Air Force is postured to do any kind of rescue of astronauts, right. Once they kind of come back into the atmosphere. You know, our ability to be able to do something, you know, in orbit today organically from the service just kind of isn't there yet. We necessarily haven't been charged with that mission. You know, everything is what the President says, that this is a mission right of the service. So we haven't been given that yet. But there has been some, you know, on back of the napkin, you know, at end of a Friday, talking about man, you know, what's going to happen when we have increased tourism in space as we travel, you know, out, you know, beyond low earth orbit, you know, what is our roles and responsibilities to do that. So it's exciting to think about all that. But I think to your point, I think that mission set would probably start with United States Space Force, you know, as a responsibility, and then probably, you know, as that prevalence continues to grow, I mean, who knows, 50, 60 years from now where we're going to be, you know, to your point, you know, is there a Space Guard, you know, Coast Guard equivalent? You know, I don't know, but, but I assume that the discussion would start with the United States Space Force. And you know, again, we think about some of that. We watch the, and see where commercial and civil are going. We're just going to, you know, wherever national interests extend out to, we will answer the call. But it's exciting to think about it. It really is.

[Rod Pyle]

Basically, it sounds really sci fi. That's really cool. You know, I'm surprised it's taken as this long chief to get all the way to astronauts and flying in space and guardians and whatnot. Because, you know, you just, you just said earlier how Nick Hague, you know, we just returned from the space station, the first, I guess the first Space Force guardian to launch and land, and I guess Mike Hopkins swore, you know, transitioned over to the Space Force for the, the first anniversary in 2020. But you know, I'm curious, you know, what, what is that path for, for, for astronaut guardians to go? And, and it sounds like there's, there's other work that, that, that guardians are doing with NASA already.

[Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania]

Yeah. So, you know, obviously, you know, Colonel Haig right now, like I said, he was the first guardian to actually launch, you know, and went up for a second visit to the International Space Station. Really proud of, you know, Colonel Hague representing. But it's really important to note, right, for, for the audience and everyone else that, you know, NASA is a civil organization and the Space Force is a military organization. But right. Because of the talent, you know, when they're looking for astronauts, all the services have the ability to nominate candidates to become astronauts with NASA and work for NASA. So while Colonel Haig was on International Space Station, you know, that, that, that relationship, you know, you know, you know, he was doing experiments, research and development on behalf of NASA. He was doing outreach and things on behalf of NASA, if you will. So it's a great partnership, great relationship having a guardian, you know, up there, I gotta tell you, you know, there were a couple of interactions that the Space Force had with Colonel Haig while he was on a space station. And I thought when I worked in Colorado and I look out my window, I would have Pike's Peak in the background. His office on International Space Station, if you will. I'm telling you, like Rod, if you think that your windows out behind you have a view. Talking to Colonel Haig from the space, you know, when he's on a space station was just phenomenal. So, you know, it's inspiring, right, for the kind of have that relationship and allowing him to continue exploration and the research and development and things from the civic perspective. You know, that's amazing, but, you know, that's just, you know, one guardian that's working with NASA. I spoke earlier today to one of our sergeants, you know, an enlisted member, William Wallace is his name. And he has, he has a, he has his degree in biology and he partnered with an organization. He just spent some time out in Arizona at Biosphere 2 and he was doing research on kind of algae growth, right. And ability, you know, can it grow in Mars or lunar, you know, formations in the dirt that's there, you know, in microgravity conditions. Like what does that look like? And he spent a couple of weeks, you know, working with NASA and other researchers, you know, leveraging his biology degree, but also his leadership and understanding of command and control and space operations because he worked in mission command for a little bit there. So I had a chance to talk to him earlier today. And another great example of guardians in the Space Force kind of partnering with NASA, non military related endeavors. But just that passion for space and the ability to kind of work as a team is always really inspiring and amazing opportunities for them to do that.

[Rod Pyle]

Yeah, I was looking at that, that study that, that Sergeant Wallace was part of and it looked like, because, I mean, just to put it in perspective, it's like a blue green algae diet supplement for astronauts, you know, and it sounds like stuff that you could, you could apply on Earth for, you know, for supplements across the board. I mean, that seems like stuff that goes far beyond even space work there too.

[Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania]

That's right. Now, now, now, William did tell me this morning it doesn't taste very good, you know, but as a military member, you know, how to remind him a little bit of hot sauce goes a long way, you know, I think sounds.

[Tarek Malik]

Like somebody who's eaten some MREs in your past.

[Rod Pyle]

Sriracha spiral spirulina. If I pronounce that right, I've had my share.

[Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania]

I've had my share.

[Tarek Malik]

Have you, have you had a chance to get out to Biosphere, by the way?

[Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania]

I have not. I have not. You know, I, the team does a really good job trying to get a strategy for where I get a chance to travel and engage and do, you know, outreach and kind of figure out, like, where's the next evolution, what are opportunities and relationship we can build. I have not had a chance to get out there yet.

[Tarek Malik]

Well, if you do, it's well worth it. It's a little bit like Tomorrowland for space, but. But it's, it's quite an impressive thing and it's amazing that they, they did it, had the success they did.

[Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania]

Yep.

[Tarek Malik]

Do you have anything you recommend in terms of where people can go to get a real sense of the Space Force story and, and what's happening now and in the future or how to sign?

[Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania]

Yeah, you know, I think, you know, when you go out to, you know, we have the spaceforce.com spaceforce mil. We have our websites and, you know, we've been working really hard. You know, there's a, there's a pamphlet, if you will, it's called Space Force 101 that has some information in it and there's a link out on our sites. We try to be, we're trying to be really good at consolidating whether it be, you know, videos, interviews, news stories, you know, in a central location that allows not only guardians that are serving in their families, but also for, you know, people who are interested, like, what is going on? What, what is General Salzman talking about now? Now, what are some initiatives in the way forward? What are the successes, you know, the service, you know, is doing and, you know, and highlight stuff like Sergeant Wallace and Colonel Haig. But usually we try to push people as a digital service, try to push them out to our social media and our websites, try to get linked up and kind of where we're going and what we're doing.

[Rod Pyle]

I have to say that your picture and presentation of the space for Chief is, is much, much more. What's the word? Accomplished than I guess, how Netflix put it in that TV show that they put out. So it's nice to know that, that it actually works and that it's not just a comedy on tv. So.

[Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania]

For sure, yeah, I appreciate that. And I will not be seeing a Kokomo today.

[Tarek Malik]

Did you happen to watch the show when it was on?

[Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania]

I did. I watched the first season. I didn't watch the second season, but. But I will tell you that, you know, Certain of the. And I won't, I won't reveal it, but there are certain nuances in certain parts of the show that had me laughing so hard. Are they reading my emails? Like, what is going on? What is. But yeah, I mean, some of it was just very much tongue in cheek, but I'll be honest, right. You know, even. And I invited you to come visit the Pentagon. But when you walk down, you know, each service in the Pentagon has a hallway and we have the Space Force hallway. And there's, there's nods to the pop culture of the Space Force, right? There's, there's a reference to Star Trek right in our Delta. You know, though, you know, NASA used the Delta way before, you know, years ago. You know, there, there is something from this, from the Netflix show. You know, there's Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream. I mean, there's some references about, you know, when you think about. Space has been ingrained in our, you know, science fiction pop culture for so many years. And now to have a Space Force, a little nod to it. But, but we have come so far in, you know, the last five and a half years, we are looking at like the, okay, maybe that was appropriate, you know, four and a half years ago, right. But now we've got real guardians doing real work for the nation. And we're looking to see, you know, how do we start to tell that story as well. But I, I get it all the time on, on the pop culture, you know, you gotta embrace it, right? I mean, it's kind of cool, but, you know, but allows me, right, to kind of pivot to the, you know, hey, haha. But let's talk about what we're really doing, right?

[Tarek Malik]

This is serious work. Well, sir, I want to thank you for joining us today for episode 157 that I apologize in advance that we're going to call Space Force because you just have to say it that way. I grew up in the 60s, you know, everything sounded like that. Where can we. You kind of gave us an idea already. But is there, is there any other spot online that we might want to go just to see what you're up to or your department?

[Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania]

Yeah. So I have a, I have a, I have myself as a. The office of the Chief Master of the Space Force has a Facebook site, an Instagram site. Also the Space Force in and of itself, like I said, as a digital service, we're really trying to leverage what is the way that we can communicate to masses in a platform that allows them to do that. If you go to the websites, go to the social media sites. That's probably a really good landing point and that will have your links to wherever you got to go. But we really try to highlight and say this is where we are, what we're doing. Easy to access from your phone or wherever you are to kind of tell the space for a story and really brag about guardians and brag about the things that we're doing. That's really important. And I, I, you know, I'm honored to have the chance to be able to do that.

[Tarek Malik]

Excellent. Tarek, where can we find you playing Intergalactic Warrior these days?

[Rod Pyle]

Well, you can find [e-mail] as always, Rod. Also on the TW the X right at Tarek J Malik on and Blue Sky. You can find me on YouTube at Spacetron plays. And this weekend you will find me on Broadway because I'm gonna go see a show. It's gonna be exciting. And help my daughter build her Pinewood Derby car for girls. This would be great.

[Tarek Malik]

All this leisure time when you should be [e-mail] bringing us more news. And of course you can always find me at pilebooks.com [e-mail] or on some social media. Although not as much as Tariq and maybe sooner to Space Force Recruiting Depot near you. Who knows knows. Remember, you can always drop us a line at Twist TWIT tv. That's twis. TWIT tv. We welcome your comments, suggestions and ideas. New episodes this podcast publish every Friday on your favorite podcatcher. So make sure to subscribe, tell your friends and give us reviews. We're counting on you. Don't forget, we're also counting on you to join Club Twit this year. This year is still young. You've got time. Besides supporting this show and others on the network work, you'll keep us all very happy and feeling loved and warm. Electrons headed your way. Finally, you can follow the Twittech podcast network at Twit on Twitter and on Facebook and Twitter TV on Instagram. Gentlemen, thank you for joining today. This has been a real pleasure and I hope we see you again.

[Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivania]

Thanks a lot. Separate Supra.

[Tarek Malik]

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[Unknown]

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