This Week in Space 182: The Dream is Alive

Date: October 17, 2025
Host: Rod Pyle
Co-Host: Tarek Malik
Guest: Terry Hart (Former NASA Astronaut, Professor at Lehigh University)

Episode Overview

This episode, titled “The Dream is Alive,” explores challenges and hopes in modern space exploration, current affairs at NASA, and the storied career of shuttle astronaut Terry Hart—who made major contributions to in-orbit servicing and was part of the iconic IMAX documentary, "The Dream is Alive." Rod and Tarek are joined by Hart to dig into space policy shifts, NASA layoffs, Orion capsule developments, and memories from the early era of shuttle flight. The show balances recent space news with a deep, engaging conversation on the evolution of crewed spaceflight and lessons for the future.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

[02:31] Greetings & Introduction

• Rod Pyle and Tarek Malik introduce the episode, joking about the title’s IMAX connection, and share the show’s aim: to talk with astronaut Terry Hart, a pioneer in space shuttle experiments and in-orbit servicing, and to analyze breaking news in commercial and government spaceflight.

[04:38] Headline News

1. Jared Isaacman’s NASA Administrator Prospects ([05:33])

• Jared Isaacman, previously removed as a NASA chief nominee, is reportedly back in consideration.
• Tarek explains Isaacman’s unique background as a payments entrepreneur and private astronaut, highlighting his “vision for what NASA could be—not just a rubber stamp for the administration.” ([06:01])
• Discussion of the significance: “This is encouraging news... they're actually trying to find a leader before the turn of the year.” (Tarek Malik, [08:49])
• Potential bias toward SpaceX? Both Rod and Tarek agree Isaacman’s track record suggests level-headed leadership (“I think he would take a... level-headed look at where we are, where we need to be, and how to get there.” —Tarek Malik, [09:21])

2. Lockheed’s Orion Without SLS ([11:02])

• Lockheed Martin is exploring how Orion can fly on rockets other than SLS, potentially to save costs and boost reusability.
• “This is a change in approach from classic aerospace companies… They build vehicles as one offs.” (Tarek, [12:37])
• Lockheed sees an evolving market, possibly including commercial destinations; opening Orion to multiple boosters could open new business.
• Comparison is made to SpaceX’s frequent Dragon flights: “Looks like SpaceX has flown various iterations of Dragon about 60 times.” (Rod, [15:42])

3. JPL Layoffs and NASA Budget Cuts ([16:20])

• Rod relates the “downright funeral" mood as JPL sheds another 550 people, about 11% of workforce, totaling a 22-28% reduction overall.
• Tarek highlights “the tagline, the whole legacy of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory... 'dare mighty things’” ([19:27]) and wonders if NASA’s unique innovation culture can persist amid cuts and government shutdown.
• Discussion of leadership turnover, with speculation about former director Laurie Leshin’s departure possibly linked to coming layoffs ([21:02]).
• Rod shares, “These losses are permanent. These folks can't come back.” ([22:17])

[25:59] Featured Guest Interview: Astronaut Terry Hart

Terry Hart’s Journey to Space ([26:06])

• Hart recalls his “right place, right time” trajectory:
  “I was... at Bell Labs... flew fighters... hired by NASA, first group, 1978. Six years at NASA, back to Bell Labs for satellites and later teaching at Lehigh.” ([26:35])
• His path was never planned:
  “When I was a young lad, the word astronaut didn’t exist yet... I was just in the right place at the right time.” ([29:06])
• On being selected:
  “‘You’re from Bell Labs, huh?’... Bell Labs were instrumental in the Apollo program. I walked into the selection interview... They had such high regard for those people.” ([32:53])

[38:42] Pioneering Filming in Space: Shooting IMAX for “The Dream is Alive”

• Hart describes training and challenges of using the massive 70mm IMAX camera in space:
  “They were really nervous... not all these amateurs taking this film in space… The first time I triggered the camera, it spun this way and I spun that way.” ([38:48])
• Shooting in weightlessness made some things easier:
  “One thing we found was easier to do in space... in weightless, the bag was much easier to handle.” ([39:26])
• On Walter Cronkite’s iconic narration:
  “Even for me, my generation growing up, he was a real role model in journalism.” ([43:13])
• Side note: Cronkite was shortlisted to fly as a journalist in space before the civilian program was cancelled. ([43:33])

[46:56] STS-41C: First Shuttle Satellite Repair and In-Orbit Servicing

• Hart outlines the landmark mission:
  • First rendezvous of Shuttle program.
  • Deployed the Long Duration Exposure Facility.
  • Repaired the Solar Max satellite after a harrowing series of failed docking and recovery attempts, extensive teamwork with ground control, and a nail-biting second try after fuel constraints.
  • “We pulled it off, you know, so it was quite a nice accomplishment.” ([51:02])

[53:17] Reflections on Shuttle Tragedy, Risk & Lessons

• On Challenger accident:
  “Five good friends lost that day. And Dick Scoby, our pilot, that was his first mission as commander… We always thought it’d be some bolt out of the blue... What did happen, should have been avoided.” (Terry Hart, [57:12])
• On risk management:
  “You need leadership at the top that constantly reinforces the quality and safety... It's not an airline. It's much more dangerous.” ([58:40])
• Rod adds context about shuttle complexity, public expectations, and financial constraints versus Apollo era ([60:01]).

[63:35] Today's NASA: Culture, Private Partners, and New Missions

• Hart sees “root risk” as the same, due to physics, but hopes NASA’s safety culture will persist through privatization:
  • “NASA needs to continue its focus... on things that are hard... Then hand them over... as soon as someone can perfect the business model.” ([65:13])

[66:21] Astronaut Superstition: Shuttle Mission Numbering

• Story of STS-41C once being “STS-13," scheduled for launch and landing on Friday the 13th, leading NASA to change naming conventions and the crew to make light-hearted commemorative mugs featuring a black cat with a 13. ([68:47])

[71:08] Risk in Deep Space: Acceptable Loss and Decision Making

• Acceptable risk is contextual—airlines vs. 1960s exploration:
  • “It certainly should involve thoughtful people... it's a hard decision. As long as we're exploring, it's going to go on—once we figure out the moon, it'll be Mars.” ([72:28])

[73:04] Educating the Next Generation

• Hart explains his efforts at Lehigh to launch a new interdisciplinary Aerospace Master’s program, combining mechanical, electrical, and systems engineering—open to non-engineering undergrads, but “you do have to pass differential equations.” ([74:47])
• “The industry is bright and growing and lively, and there's a demand for engineers that have the skills to help that business move along.” ([73:04])
• Rod asks about a book; Hart says, “My wife refers to my students as my oxygen... Every time I start a new course it's like writing a book.” ([75:32])

[76:23] Would He Go Back to Space?

• “Maybe there's a scientific experiment in geriatrics I could participate in... but I think space is for the younger crowd here.” ([76:51])

[77:11] New Jersey's Hidden Legacy in Aerospace

• Hart and Tarek celebrate New Jersey’s outsized, under-appreciated role in space, from Bell Labs’ Telstar to astronauts like Buzz Aldrin.
  • “It was a wonderful heritage from all the engineering people that were in that part of New Jersey...” (Terry Hart, [78:41])

[79:44] The Space Beehive!

• Hart confirms his shuttle flight flew a beehive experiment:
  • “We had 3,000 some honeybees on board with us...” ([79:44])
  • The bees adapted to weightlessness better than the ground control group, producing perfect honeycombs after several disorganized days.

[81:11] Shuttle Life: Roominess and Manufacturing Futures

• Rod is surprised by the shuttle’s limited habitable volume.
• Hart: “Once you're in space, five is very comfortable... It's a wonderful place to work when you're weightless... I think a lot more people will be doing it in the future.” ([81:31])

[82:47] Shaping the Future

• Hart remains optimistic: “We have a great generation coming.” ([82:58])

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Isaacman's NASA bid:
  "Every time I go to the diner and I buy my food with a Shift4 Payments device, I’m contributing to his billionaire lifestyle." —Tarek Malik, [06:01]

• On the IMAX camera in space:
  “The first time I triggered the camera, it spun this way and I spun that way.” —Terry Hart, [38:48]

• On Challenger:
  “Five good friends lost that day... what did happen, though, should have been avoided... It’s not an airline. It’s much more dangerous.” —Terry Hart, [57:12]

• On NASA’s purpose:
  “NASA needs to continue its focus because it always has to do the things that are hard, the things that there’s no business model for yet.” —Terry Hart, [65:13]

• On educational mission:
  “My wife refers to my students as my oxygen... I dedicate everything, all my time.” —Terry Hart, [75:32]

• On future generations:
  “The kids are just great these days, Rod. They're really wonderful kids we get coming... I think we have a great generation coming.” —Terry Hart, [82:47]

Resources & Where to Learn More

• Lehigh Aerospace Program: aerospace.lehigh.com
• Terry Hart’s Lehigh profile: search at lehigh.edu
• Rod Pyle: pilebooks.com
• Tarek Malik: space.com, [@TarekJMalik]
• Podcast Feedback: twis@twit.tv

Closing Comments

Rod and Tarek thank Terry Hart for his time, wit, and pioneering perspective. For aspiring explorers and future engineers, the episode is a treasure trove of insider history, advice on risk and leadership, and inspiration for space’s next chapter.

[Selected Timestamps]

• 02:31 — Episode intro and title banter
• 05:33 — Isaacman’s NASA administrator saga
• 11:02 — Lockheed’s Orion reusability plans
• 16:20 — JPL Layoffs explained
• 26:06 — Hart’s biography and path to NASA
• 38:42 — IMAX in orbit: behind the scenes
• 46:56 — STS-41C: Satellite rescue drama
• 53:17 — Challenger reflections and safety culture
• 66:21 — Stories behind shuttle numbering and superstition
• 73:04 — Future of aerospace education
• 76:51 — Space beehive experiment details
• 82:47 — Optimism for the next generation