This Week in Space 185: Gutting Goddard

Date: November 7, 2025
Host(s): Rod Pyle, Tarek Malik
Guest: Josh Dinner (Space.com)

Episode Overview

This episode ("Gutting Goddard") delivers an in-depth discussion about the ongoing crisis at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center: drastic cutbacks, building closures, staff reductions, and their intersection with the recent government shutdown and shifting political winds in Washington. The hosts break down headline news in space—like Jared Isaacman’s renewed NASA nomination, international satellite diplomacy, the ISS anniversary, and new Mars missions—before bringing on Space.com journalist Josh Dinner to explain his major investigative report uncovering how and why Goddard is being “gutted.” The episode explores the ramifications for American space science, climate research, and NASA’s community.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jared Isaacman Renominated as NASA Chief

• Background: Jared Isaacman's nomination for NASA administrator was previously pulled due to political drama, but has now been reintroduced by President Trump.
• Confirmation Roller Coaster (04:25–07:52):
  • Rod and Tarek recap the confusing "will-they-won’t-they" of Isaacman’s nomination, including withdrawal over his bipartisan donations and Elon Musk’s previous support.
  • Quote:

    "We could have already been here and spared a lot... if we had someone in charge. Not a yes person..."
    — Tarek Malik (07:02)

• Implications: The vacuum in NASA’s leadership may have contributed to current chaos at Goddard.

2. US–China Satellite Diplomacy

• First-ever direct coordination to avoid orbital collision (07:56–10:26):
  • China contacted NASA proactively to manage an impending close pass between satellites—an unprecedented step, hinting at improved international cooperation.
  • Explanation of 'conjunction' events and their risks to space stations/satellites ("conjunction means they could slam into each other" — Rod Pyle, 08:52).

3. Space History Up for Sale

• Apollo-era radio telescope facility placed on the market (14:48–18:16):
  • Pisgah Astronomical Research Institute, home to two large 1960s NASA tracking dishes, is for sale for $30 million.
  • The segment highlights concerns about preserving space infrastructure and symbolism.

4. 25 Years of ISS Occupation

• Reflecting on a Human Generation in Space (18:22–21:16):
  • The ISS has been continuously inhabited for a quarter-century, illustrating not only technological progress but a generational shift in expectations around human space presence.
  • Uncertainty looms for the ISS’s future and continuity, especially amidst US leadership and funding instability.

5. CLD (Commercial Low-Earth Orbit Destinations), Industry Activity

• Updates on Private Space Stations (20:04–21:32):
  • Companies like Axiom and Vast are preparing commercial successors to the ISS.
  • Tarek’s family connection to Vast adds a personal touch, along with a note on journalistic ethics regarding coverage.

6. Mars EscaPADE Launch

• Overview (22:19–25:41):
  • A dual-probe mission studying Mars’ atmosphere, built by Rocket Lab, launching (controversially) on Blue Origin’s New Glenn rocket.
  • Discussion covers mission science, technical debate over "interplanetary" launch label, and its use of unique trajectories.
  • Quote:

    "They're going to 3D map the environment around Mars to study how solar wind is stripping away the atmosphere... that is one of the reasons the planet is so inhospitable."
    — Josh Dinner (23:04)

Feature Segment – "Gutting Goddard"

(Main story panel begins at 28:47)

Summary:

Josh Dinner summarizes his investigation into the rapid shutdown, reorganization, and staff displacement at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center—possibly without legal authority and under the radar during a government shutdown. The panel dissects the human cost, science lost, accusations of political targeting (with “climate science” a suspected bullseye), and the crumbling institutional knowledge at this storied NASA field center.

A. What's Happening at Goddard?

• Goddard, NASA’s science hub in Maryland, is experiencing layoffs, building closures, and rapid program cutbacks.
• These changes are happening preemptively, based on the President’s budget request (not yet passed by Congress).
• Employees, scientists, engineers, lawmakers (notably Senator Maria Cantwell), and union reps are raising alarms.
• Quote:

  "Goddard’s leadership [is]... really eviscerate[ing] some of its science programs before Congress really has a chance to weigh in..."
  — Josh Dinner (29:24)

B. Politics & Climate Science at NASA

• Perceptions of Political Retaliation:
  • Scientists at Goddard must avoid even saying the words "climate science."

  "They called climate the C word... when you're not allowed to say the type of science you work on in your workplace without fear of repercussion, I think that's a pretty serious matter."
  — Josh Dinner (32:52)

• Goddard’s centrality to climate data (like temperature records) appears linked to targeted cuts.

C. Shutdown as Cover

• Shutdown Timeline:
  • Notices and emails went out about building closures and layoffs right before/during the shutdown—when most employees were furloughed and unable to respond.
  • Employees had to rapidly clean out labs, sometimes loading equipment into cars, with nowhere else to go.
  • Quote:

    "The administration at Goddard is effectively just emptying half the campus. And it's happening during a time when... it's very difficult for employees... to even realize it's happening."
    — Josh Dinner (37:06)

D. Mission Impact

• Major Programs at Risk/Impacted:
  • Hubble Space Telescope, Nancy Roman Space Telescope, DA VINCI Venus probe—among others—face uncertainty or loss of critical expertise.
  • Lisa gravitational wave mission’s US contribution “zeroed out,” causing job loss and attrition.
  • Quote:

    "People... are saying they've already lost a lot of the expertise they will need to keep going in the long run."
    — Josh Dinner (44:32)

E. Legal and Labor Angle

• Union Rights Curtailed:
  • Executive order reclassifies NASA as a national security agency, killing Goddard’s union’s (GESTA) collective bargaining rights.
  • GESTA confirms the story’s findings but can do little.
  • Ongoing lawsuit against the executive order will take too long to save jobs/programs.
• Suspicions of Union Busting:
  • The timing of the executive order during union negotiations is widely seen as suspect.

F. Irreversible Damage

• Loss of key personnel—scientists and engineers with decades of accrued, sometimes unwritten, knowledge—is seen as irreversible.
• Foreign agencies are actively recruiting laid-off NASA staff.
• Expertise and “soft skills” vanish, not easily replaced.
• Quote:

  "NASA doesn't have budget for knowledge retention in a lot of cases... not everything is documented."
  — Rod Pyle (59:41)

G. What Can Be Done?

• Advocacy: Employees, with support from organizations like the Planetary Society, have protested and lobbied Congress.
• Congress has moved to restore NASA’s budget, but the administration may “impound” those funds, overriding Congressional intent (56:41–57:31).
• Even restored budgets may be too late: “the expertise is gone” and damage is “irreparable.”

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the Loss of Institutional Knowledge

  "You can't just assume, well, we'll just get somebody new to come in, they'll upload everything they need from the person that just left and everything's fine. It doesn’t work that way."
  — Rod Pyle (59:41)

• On Political Overtones

  "Our favorite apolitical space agency is politically charged. ... It feels like a sneak attack on Goddard, possibly because the word climate science is affiliated with what they do."
  — Rod Pyle (31:37)

• On Legal Questions

  "Employees are concerned that the Office of Management and Budget is going to impound the funds anyway... regardless of what Congress does, that the missions... are still going to be zeroed out."
  — Josh Dinner (56:41–57:31)

• On the Big Picture

  "... We're watching something beautiful that was built up over decades by the country that led in the efforts to explore space... being destroyed at the whim of one administration..."
  — Rod Pyle (63:37)

Looking Forward: What Next for NASA?

• The situation at Goddard is emblematic of larger threats to NASA’s culture, workforce, and global reputation.
• Crucial unknowns:
  • Will Jared Isaacman be confirmed and, if so, what will his leadership bring?
  • How will restored budgets (if enacted) actually affect centers already hollowed out?
  • Will NASA recover its workforce, reputation, and “continuous presence”—both in orbit and on Earth?
• Editorial sentiment: Even with new leadership, change comes slowly, and much may already be lost.

Suggested Listening Timestamps

| Segment | Topic | |--------------------------------------|------------------------------------------| | 01:27 – 04:08 | Episode overview, space jokes & headlines intro | | 04:24 – 07:52 | Jared Isaacman/NASA administrator nomination drama | | 07:56 – 10:26 | US–China satellite diplomacy/conjunction explained | | 14:48 – 18:16 | Apollo-era telescope facility sale & historical context | | 18:22 – 21:16 | 25 years of ISS occupation—generational impact | | 22:19 – 25:41 | Mars EscaPADE mission—launch and scientific goals | | 28:47 – 37:06 | Gutting Goddard—the investigative story begins | | 44:04 – 47:26 | Major Goddard programs affected (Hubble, LISA, etc.) | | 49:22 – 51:40 | Union/collective bargaining rights stripped—labor angle | | 56:41 – 58:29 | OMB, budget restoration, Congressional limits | | 61:36 – end | Closing: damage assessment, what to watch next, and reflection|

Final Thoughts & Takeaways

• Goddard Space Flight Center is suffering deep, possibly irreversible damages—including the loss of key staff and infrastructure—due to budgetary preemption, political reprisal, and administrative action during the government shutdown.
• NASA’s future, especially in climate science and institutional knowledge, is at a crossroads—its restoration depends on Congressional follow-through and the return of strong, science-forward leadership.
• The podcast leaves listeners with a mix of urgency, advocacy, and mourning for a changed space agency, as well as resources for action and further information.

For listeners seeking more:

• Read Josh Dinner’s full investigative report at Space.com (look for “NASA is sinking its flagship science center...”)
• Follow @JoshDinner, @tarikjmalik on social platforms for ongoing updates.