Podcast Summary

Podcast: All TWiT.tv Shows (Audio)
Episode: This Week in Space 188: A New NASA Leader Rises?
Date: December 5, 2025
Host: Tarek Malik (Space.com)
Guest: Mike Wall (Space.com)

Episode Overview

This episode explores shifts and shakeups in the international space community, focusing on Russia’s current setbacks, China’s latest rocket innovation, and the major headlines: billionaire Jared Isaacman’s bid to become NASA Administrator. Tarek Malik and guest Mike Wall discuss the political drama, public and astronaut support, potential ethical concerns, and what Isaacman’s leadership could mean for NASA’s future—including the perennial US-China lunar race.

Key Topics & Insights

1. Russian Space Setbacks

Cosmonaut Pulled from SpaceX Flight

• Russian cosmonaut Oleg Artemyev was abruptly removed from the SpaceX Crew-12 mission.
• Quote [05:03]:
  "He has been kicked off. That has been confirmed by the Russian space agency... He's pretty high profile... And he was supposed to fly on SpaceX's Crew 12 mission... then he was abruptly pulled." — Mike Wall
• Allegedly, Artemyev took unauthorized photos of SpaceX hardware during training, though details were vague, and parties involved gave no definitive explanations.
• Both hosts expressed skepticism this was espionage: more likely a policy misunderstanding or over-caution.
• Quote [07:03]:
  "I've never heard of an astronaut or a cosmonaut like being the one guilty of the crime. Have you ever heard of that before?" — Tarek Malik

Launch Pad Accident at Baikonur

• Recent Soyuz crew launch succeeded, but the launch pad’s 20-ton concrete platform crashed into the flame trench, rendering the site unusable.
• Quote [10:06]:
  "What happened was like, fell into the flame trench after launch, shortly after launch... It is kind of a big deal because this is the only pad that the Russians use to launch people and cargo to the space station." — Mike Wall
• Consequences: Russian human spaceflight is on pause until repairs (estimates from months to over a year). Reliance on US (SpaceX Crew Dragon) is highlighted as vital padding for ISS operations.
• Discussion of Russia’s declining space competitiveness: multiple recent technical mishaps, little investment, and China seen as America’s true rival.

2. China’s Leap Toward Reusable Rockets

• LandSpace, a Chinese private company, attempted an orbital launch and a Falcon 9–style first stage landing. The rocket exploded just short of the landing pad.
• Quote [19:36]:
  "They've been developing this rocket that looks a lot like the Falcon 9 from SpaceX... It blew up, but it made it most of the way down." — Mike Wall
• While a “failure” by some standards, both hosts agreed it was an impressive first attempt, referencing SpaceX’s own early struggles.

3. Time Flies Faster on Mars (Literally)

• NIST scientists found that a Mars day is 1,477 millionths of a second shorter than an Earth day due to gravitational effects and orbital eccentricity—a real-world demonstration of general relativity.
• Quote [23:24]:
  "On average, time passes on Mars 1,477 millionths of a second faster every day... all because of Albert Einstein’s theory of general relativity." — Tarek Malik
• Practical impact: Future Mars navigation and communication systems will need timing adjustments for accuracy.
• Quote [25:57]:
  "If you have a human city on Mars and we have GPS there for people, then that's really going to make a difference..." — Mike Wall

4. Main Topic: Jared Isaacman’s Second Bid for NASA Administrator

Isaacman's Background & Experience

• Founder of Shift4 (payments tech, fun fact: Shift+4 = $ symbol).
• Funded and flew Inspiration4 and Polaris Dawn missions, the first all-civilian and private spacewalk missions, respectively.
• Highly regarded by astronauts, industry leaders, and the public for both technical savvy and philanthropic initiatives.

The Political Soap Opera

• First nominated by President Trump, Isaacman’s name was withdrawn allegedly over past Democratic donations and supposed closeness with Elon Musk. His nomination returned the next cycle.
• Quote [33:07]: "It was surprising when it got pulled. But you know, it's Washington, there's lots of maneuvering and stuff we're not privy to." — Mike Wall
• Drama about Musk’s influence, Isaacman’s business dealings with SpaceX, and persistent questions from Sen. Ed Markey about whether Musk was part of nomination meetings.
• Quote [38:04]:
  "He danced around the question... If Musk wasn’t in the room, you’d just say it." — Mike Wall

Conflict of Interest Concerns

• Multiple senators grilled Isaacman about payments to SpaceX and whether he'd disclose details protected by NDAs if confirmed.
• Isaacman agreed to seek release from any NDA if required, emphasizing no “special friendship” with Musk—only a business customer relationship.
• Quote [39:42]:
  "He made those conflict of interest kind of concerns very clear... Markey asked Isaacman how much he paid Musk for the space flights. We didn't get an answer..." — Mike Wall

Wide Support & Unique Qualifications

• Isaacman seen as an actual “space person” with practical mission experience—unlike acting NASA head (and Transportation Secretary) Sean Duffy, who lacks a space background.
• 36+ astronauts, major aerospace industry players, bipartisan lawmakers, and the science community voiced support.
• Quote [45:08]: "He really seems to genuinely care about space flight and exploration... He has real ideas about things and cares about them." — Mike Wall

5. Project Athena: Isaacman’s NASA Roadmap

• Leaked “Project Athena” document details Isaacman's vision for NASA's future—regularly updated, not final.
• Focuses on tech advancement (nuclear propulsion, etc.), cost-cutting (outsourcing Earth observation to private satellites), and streamlining operations.
• Some ideas controversial (potentially outsourcing NASA’s science/data-gathering prompts debate).
• Quote [49:41]:
  "He says in there some things about, you know, doing more offloading of certain types of earth science observation stuff to private satellites..." — Mike Wall

6. The US–China Lunar Race & Artemis Uncertainty

• Congress doubled down on funding for Artemis 4 & 5 and the Gateway lunar outpost, despite prior proposals to cut after Artemis 3.
• Isaacman sees the lunar return as a competition the US “must win,” but is still hamstrung by political and budgetary realities.
• Debate: China’s more streamlined, stable approach versus America’s whiplash of priorities and funding.
• Quote [55:57]:
  "China is just working on this Apollo-esque kind of lunar landing program... piece by piece, step by step... they're able to do more long term planning..." — Mike Wall

The Starship Dilemma

• Isaacman inherits criticism over NASA’s choice of Starship (complex refueling, high risk/reward, but revolutionary if successful).
• Some ex-NASA leaders argue the US needs a simpler, Apollo-like approach to reliably beat China to the lunar surface.
• Quote [59:00]:
  "There's a faction of people who agree... that the Starship system... is very complicated... For every mission that lands on the moon, you need like a dozen or so refueling missions..." — Mike Wall
• Counterpoint: Starship may have a steeper development ramp, but offers long-term infrastructure and cost advantages.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Space Joke, Thanksgiving Edition
  "What does a space turkey say?" — Tarek Malik
  "Hubble." — Tarek Malik (03:15)

• Reflections on Russia’s Decline
  "It's not like the fall of the Russian space program. They're still very good at certain things, but they certainly aren't making the same strides China is or at the same rate." — Mike Wall (14:10)

• Isaacman’s Balanced Vision
  "He seemed to be taking... a balanced approach. That's the word, balanced, to what the end results need to be..." — Tarek Malik (47:41)

• On Political Flux
  "They’re at the whim of policymakers and just have to react a lot of the time... it’s tough for them.” — Mike Wall (57:08)

• On the Starship Approach
  “If [Starship] works out…it’ll be absolutely revolutionary. But…for the short term, if we really want to beat China to the moon, then we should have a simple system that we know works quickly—like the Apollo system." — Mike Wall (59:00)

Important Timestamps

• [04:35] Russia pulls cosmonaut from SpaceX Crew-12
• [09:34] Russian launch pad accident at Baikonur
• [19:25] China’s reusable rocket test and explosion
• [23:24] Mars time runs faster than Earth—relativity in action
• [31:05] Isaacman’s career, business, and spaceflight background
• [33:07] The political saga behind Isaacman’s NASA nomination
• [39:42] Conflict of interest grilling in the Senate
• [45:08] Industry and astronaut support for Isaacman
• [47:41] Isaacman’s balanced, science-inclusive NASA agenda
• [49:41] Project Athena: privatization and technology push
• [54:35] Artemis, the China-US lunar race, and NASA politics
• [59:00] Starship versus Apollo-style lunar landing debate
• [66:10] Senate aims to confirm NASA chief by end of 2025

Takeaways

• Russia is temporarily out of human spaceflight, underscoring the importance of international redundancy.
• China is rapidly closing the technology gap, showing solid progress toward reusable, Falcon 9–style launch vehicles.
• Isaacman represents a rare blend of technical, operational, and business expertise, inspiring real support from space professionals and policymakers.
• His leaked plan, Project Athena, foregrounds efficiency and forward-thinking technology.
• Major hurdles remain: US space governance is a political football; the Artemis program’s success depends as much on stability as on innovation.

Listen for This

• Tarek's “space turkey” joke and seasonal banter [03:15]
• In-depth dissection of Russian and Chinese recent events [04:35–21:32]
• The real-world impact of relativistic time on Mars [23:24–25:57]
• Isaacman’s unique background and Project Athena’s potential NASA impact [31:05–51:12]
• The nitty-gritty of the lunar race, Starship’s prospects, and the ongoing budget-and-politics tug-of-war [54:02–61:53]

For further details and up-to-date reporting, visit Space.com and follow the hosts on their platforms.