A (2:10)

Hey, look, look, look. It hasn't. It has the hat. You said that it was missing an eye, but my hat, it's got. It's got the eye. There it is.

B (2:17)

Oh, there it is. Oh, now you look just as ridiculous as you did a minute ago.

A (2:22)

It's, like, deflated. I don't know what the deal is.

B (2:24)

All right, well, speaking of deflation, let's move on to the show. This is our annual holiday special where we start by diving into news and then go to the accomplishments of 2025 and maybe a sneak peek at 26. And, of course, a juicy holiday space joke. So bear with us. Before we begin, however, please don't forget, do us a solid. Make sure to, like, subscribe and whatever else you do for podcasts to let the world know how much you love them. And now it's joke time.

A (2:55)

Don't guess. Is it from somebody?

B (2:58)

And now it's joke time. John Ash is looking at me like, what? Did we used to have a cue for that? Yes, we did. Da, da, da, da. Okay, a space joke. Don't worry about it. No, I'm gonna worry about it.

A (3:10)

Let's talk about this right now. There's a theme music for the space joke. I have the theme music for Headline News.

B (3:14)

No, I give you, like, three stings for a space joke.

A (3:19)

I thought that was the laughter. That was the laugh track you gave me.

B (3:22)

No, there was a kind of thing. Anyway, I just did it, so let's move on. Regular humorous Tucker Drake. Tucker, who hosts the Atheist in the Trailer park podcast.

A (3:35)

Oh, wow.

B (3:36)

May not be fitting for holiday times. Here we go.

A (3:39)

Which one are we? Which one's the atheist? Which one's the trailer park? I don't know.

B (3:43)

Wow. I could kind of claim both those titles in a rightful sense, but thanks for pointing that out. Hey, Tarik.

A (3:48)

Yes, Rod?

B (3:49)

Did you hear about the new Star Trek Christmas movie?

A (3:53)

No, I didn't. Tell me about it.

B (3:54)

It's called the Wreath of Khan. Ha.

A (3:58)

I get it. Well. Well, that's what we call polite laugh. All right. Well, I love it, though.

B (4:06)

I've heard that some people want to shove charcoal briquettes in our stockings when it's joke time of this show. But you can help by sending your best, worst, or most indifferent space joke to us@TwistWit TV. That's your new Year's resolution, so don't break it. And now, onward to headline news.

A (4:26)

Headline. I'll get it one day.

B (4:32)

You've gotten it a bunch of times, and now you've gotten something else. So, golly, a new executive order from the executive office.

A (4:40)

This is, like, hot off the presses.

B (4:42)

By the way, too.

C (4:42)

This is really.

B (4:43)

This is kind of in the please give me a break department. Not politically, just in terms of expectations. So the executive order goes something like this. I paraphrase slightly. Hey, Jared, welcome to NASA. Figure out how to fix Artemis for 2028. Get nukes on the moon by 2030. Call out any underperformers or late programs. Increase investment in commercial launch by 50 billion, by 28. And by the way, you have 90 days to get back to me. Get with it now. In my world, that's asking a lot from a decimated NASA that barely knows what's happening next week versus 2028 these days. Yeah, but maybe I'm being harsh.

A (5:24)

Well, I mean, at least there's like a plan. This was interesting because it came out like literally last night is when it came out.

B (5:32)

So a day after he was confirmed.

A (5:33)

Yeah, well, it was, it was his first day at the, at the office. In fact, I've got a fun little clip online. 30 floor, if we're able to, to see it. It's a Twitter embed, John, but that's, that's what we're going to talk about. Mr. Isaacman himself. And, and so essentially this was the, and I'm going to make sure I get it correctly. This is the Ensuring American Space Superiority executive order. And it really touched on not just NASA stuff, but also military space things to solidify kind of a lot of things that were already out there. Like you mentioned, Rod, there's a lot of talk about getting to the moon by 2028 and positioning the United States for being able to get people to Mars. Somewhat general. Like there wasn't like A, take SpaceX's Starship to the moon kind of a thing. It was just get there by 2028 and, you know, increase robust commercial space flight and, you know, lower costs, etc, like the stuff that, you know, they want to do. Anyway, there was a commitment to have a replacement for the space station by 2030, acknowledging that it's supposed to be retired by 2030, so not to have a gap over, over that time of having a destination in space. And, and then there was a lot about ensuring US Superiority on the military front, not just in orbit, but like missile defense, with the Golden Dome saying that we're going to have. They called it the Iron Dome for America. They didn't say Golden Dome, which was strange because, like, that was his big spiel, but it says a comprehensive missile defense shield. And then in parentheses it says like the Iron Dome for America.

B (7:20)

Oh, okay, so they're likening it to Israel's.

A (7:23)

Yeah, yeah, so, but, but, you know, like Trump has said, we're going to call it the Golden Dome. I don't know why they didn't just call it that in the, in the, in the executive order.

B (7:31)

Maybe they think it's silly.

A (7:33)

I don't know. But there's also a lot of discussions about making sure that US Satellites are protected from weapons in orbit, from low Earth orbit all the way through. And I quote, it says CIS lunar space. So it is now a presidential order to, I guess, take the high ground in CIS lunar space in order to secure that against our adversaries, I suppose. But a lot of what was there was stuff that was already there. It was just not all acknowledged overall. So this is really a. Okay, Jared is coming to work. Here's what we're going to do. Also, Isaacman was in the office when he signed this executive order. There's pictures of it online.

B (8:17)

So that means it really happened.

A (8:20)

Yeah, well, it means that it wasn't like they were trying to sneak it by, like one more thing, like all of the layoffs and closures and mission cancellations that have all been going on in the last six months since his first go around when he was just about to be confirmed back in what, June or May. Was that before they, they, they pulled the rug out from under him. So now there's, now there's a, there's this, this order. It's going to be up to Jared to pursue it for NASA's role and to work with his partners in the Space Force and the, the Department of War, I suppose, to all that.

B (8:54)

So I actually saw for the. I mean, it's beneficial for a while, but you keep seeing it referred to still as Department of Defense. But I saw an official reference yesterday. Pete Hex's Secretary of War, the Department of War. So welcome back to 1938.

A (9:09)

But I think, I think Congress has to pass a resolution because I think only Congress can rename the branches. Right. That's what I was reading.

B (9:15)

We still have a Congress. Okay, do we want to try, John, do we want to get one more story before the break or run to the break now?

A (9:23)

Let's run to the break.

B (9:24)

Okay. Hey, everybody, let's go to a break. We'll be right back for our holiday special. Go nowhere.

A (9:30)

Hey, everybody.

C (9:31)

Leo laporte here with a. A little bit of an ask. Every year at this time, we'd like to survey our audience to find a little bit more about you. As you may know, we respect your privacy. We don't do anything, in fact, we can't do anything to learn about who you are. And that's fine with me. I like that. But it helps us with advertising, it helps us with programming to know a little bit about those of you who are willing to tell us your privacy is absolutely respected. We do get your email address, but that's just in case there's an issue. We don't share that with anybody. What we do share is the aggregate information that we get from these surveys. Things like 80% of our audience buy something they heard in an ad on our shows or 75% of our audience are it decision makers. Things like that are very helpful with us when we talk to advertisers. They're also very helpful to us to understand what operating systems you use, what content you're interested in. So, enough. Let me just ask you if you will go to Twitter TV Survey 26 and answer a few questions. It should only take you a few minutes of your time. We do this every year. It's very helpful to us. Your privacy is assured, I promise you. And of course, if you're uncomfortable with any question or you don't want to do it at all, that's fine too. But if you want to help us out a little bit. Twit TV survey 26, thank you so much. And now back to the show.

B (10:54)

And we're back to talk about Interstellar Comet. Yeah, Atlas. So it was, it, it was coming, it was hearing. It's goning now.

A (11:05)

Yeah, this was going to be on one of my rundowns for like the year, like the big story. Yeah, we'll just, we'll just put it here because today's the day. Today was the closest approach of Comet 3. I. Atlas.

B (11:14)

Wait a minute. Okay.

A (11:17)

Yeah, that's exactly. It's a great recreation, Rod. And you'll, you'll be happy to know that our livestream was rained out. So we spent like the last three days getting people all excited about watching the live stream to see it through a telescope.

B (11:31)

Oh, were you channeling slew or which one?

A (11:35)

No, the virtual telescope project out in Italy.

B (11:39)

Oh my God. So you pitched it and pitched it and pushed it and pushed it and then clouds.

A (11:44)

Luckily we had other things that we were giving people, like a lot of other stories and stuff like that.

B (11:48)

See, if this was the Apollo era, back in the 60s and 70s, you would have cut to a simulation with strings and spaceships dangling around.

A (11:57)

But I guess, yeah, I would love it. I would love it. I'm sure I could make one out of foil or something and some dry ice. That would have worked out pretty well.

B (12:03)

We'll twitch that before, but we could have tried.

A (12:06)

So this, this comet is, is, is here. It's been its closest approach. I think it was like within 168 million miles of earth at its close. No, about 180 something. It was, it was all just about 2 2.2aus. 1.8 aus away.

B (12:18)

Right.

A (12:19)

So at its closest approach. And, and now. Excuse me.

B (12:23)

AU is an astronomical unit which is distant from the Earth to the sun, which is 80 million miles.

A (12:28)

Is it 83?

B (12:30)

92, 90 maybe it's 93 million miles.

A (12:33)

Yeah, there you go.

B (12:33)

It's a bunch.

A (12:34)

It's a lot of miles. So, and, and so I mention it because this was kind of like our comet of the year. There were many, but. But this was the one that really kind of captured people's hearts largely because there was, there was a whole big, like, subtext and meme online about is it a spaceship or is it not a spaceship? So much.

B (12:59)

So 9.3 million miles. I was. Right. Okay, go ahead.

A (13:03)

Wow. So then it's actually more than one. It's, it's a lot of million miles. It's more than that. Yeah. The 9.3. Are you sure it's not 93 million miles? The 9.3.

B (13:15)

Sorry, 93 million miles.

A (13:16)

Okay, that seems really close. But even at my holiday party, someone asked me, is it really a spaceship? You know, Kim Kardashian asked Sean Duffy that the acting NASA chief at the time was dealing with a comet.

B (13:30)

So one of the intellectual giants of.

A (13:32)

Our time, what I'm saying is that this comet had reach, right? It wasn't just for the astronomers and the eggheads and the boffins, if you will. This was for, for, for the masses. We actually have a story by Brett, by Brett Tingley on the site actually right now about how it got so viral and meme of cool. And apparently, apparently it was. It was because the closest approach and all of the pictures were all taken during the shutdown and no one was getting an official word from the government. And the timing really played into it.

B (14:03)

Because Avi Loeb is madman. I mean, you know, I've been trying to dial it back because he's a serious. Respect him. As I've mentioned before, you know, we corresponded briefly in the mid-2010s over a story I was working on that he had a big part in at Caltech, but he's just gone off the diving board and I thought, okay, oh, muamua, this is a new thing. It's our first confirmed interstellar object. So it kind of makes sense to, to start, you know, pulling the taffy a bit in terms of your science.

A (14:38)

Mumu was one eye back in 2017. That's right.

B (14:40)

Right. And then Boris off in. Okay, this is the second one. Kind of weird that he's still pushing it after Omuamua turned out to be just a rock in everybody's opinion but his. But, okay, but this time I thought. And. And the first press release I saw, he had dialed it down a bit. Well, we should at least consider the possibility. And I thought, okay, good, you know. You figured that out. Ah, no. He gets on podcasts. I think he was on Rogan. I forget which one I saw him on. But after the first 10 minutes, talking about, hey, I'm on a NASCAR team's car hood, and they let me drive the car, and they said I was the best driver, you know, was sounding kind of like an executive that we all know and love and, you know, talking about his Netflix special and all this stuff. And then he finally got to talking about the comet. It's like, well, science just doesn't have any common sense, and people have. Boy. So he went on the attack, and I thought, you know, dude, it's not classy to attack your fellow scientists just because they're pushing back in your pet theory, which for anybody who could possibly not know at this time, is these interstellar objects. The rocks are possibly icy. Icy nuclei are possibly alien spaceships here to spy on us. And, oh, it's on the perfect trajectory to drop off many probes behind the sun. And on and on and on. It's like, you know, A, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Thank you, Carl Sagan. And B, Occam's razor, right? The simplest answer is, it's a freaking rock with some ice on it. The reason that you see little gas jets coming from it is because the ice melts when it's nearer the sun. And it gets the farts, but instead it's the farts. It gets comet farts, but instead we get, you know, this really. So I'm sorry I'm ranting a bit, but I'm.

A (16:34)

You are. Tell me. Oh, no, Ron, come on, tell me. Tell me how you really.

B (16:37)

What I really feel. I don't know. I'm just stunned that he's still going there, because it's got to be driving Harvard nuts. This is not their jam, you know?

A (16:45)

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what to tell you there, so. Okay, I'm probably gonna sneeze. Hold on, hold on.

B (16:50)

Okay, here, I'll cover it.

A (16:53)

Yeah.

B (16:55)

Sneeze now, please. Get it done.

A (16:59)

All right, all right. Maybe next time I'll mute myself. Next time.

B (17:01)

So yourself. Let us share. All right. I'm kind of surprised you put this in SpaceX. Starlink falling out of space. I Had to look it up. I mean star.

A (17:12)

Look it up.

B (17:13)

Well, Starlink satellites reenter all the time, but this one's a little different because it's leaving some junk in orbit.

A (17:19)

Right, which is, well, well they re enter all the time when SpaceX, you know, wants them to. These, they're not, they're not robust satellites. They only have like a five year mission.

B (17:29)

I know, but a bunch of them have come back on schedule too.

A (17:32)

Well, but, but this one, they, they, they admit to losing contact with it and I think that we got a lot of a heads up about this one largely because there have been a lot more, not just news reports because Space.com has been covering a lot of this. Teresa Pultorova out in the UK is really good at following a lot of the news for space to be tracking. But there have been a lot of reports too about close calls and whatnot. And there's so many more satellites. They've launched 3,000 of these satellites this year alone. Can you believe that? 3,000 this year? I think 130 of their launches were just for Starlink launches in 2025. So but SpaceX came out in front of this one and said hey, we've lost contact with one of our satellites. Before its five year mission was supposed to be over with, it experienced an anomaly that quote unquote led to venting of the propulsion tank, a rapid decay in its orbit essentially and the release of a small number of trackable low relative velocity objects.

B (18:30)

So which orbital debris?

A (18:32)

Right, you got, you got three things there. You've got anomaly, you've got venting of the propulsion tanks that came out of the anomaly that is, you know, changing its orbit and you have the release of small particles. The thing exploded, it exploded in space. But they don't want to say it. You know, the tank ruptured, it didn't.

B (18:49)

And they didn't even say rudd, which would be their usual go to.

A (18:52)

Yeah, they could lean into it. Well they can't because that's really funny and cute and haha. When it's, it's the world's biggest rocket that is financed by the world's richest man and, and it's still in a testing phase and there's no consequences except that, well, they have to spend a bunch of, you know, billions more dollars on the next one and when, when.

B (19:12)

You'Re not on the cusp of perhaps trying to announce that you're going public. Yeah, it just means it's time to get serious.

A (19:18)

That's what I was gonna say. But, but it's a, it's a whole other story when a, like you say you're on the cusp of going public where people really need to have a sense of dependability and reliability in the product, that you're not just throwing stuff up and then having it fall out of space. But also Starlink is one of the cornerstone business markets right now of SpaceX because they're making a lot of money through these Internet satellites as a way of funding all of the other stuff that they're doing. And, and if, if they start losing those satellites in an unexpected way that's creating debris in these orbits that are packed with other Starlink satellites, it's a problem for them. And so, so they want to make sure that they are, they get in front of a lot of this and, and take as much control as they can of it. So we'll see. Though it's supposed to come down probably for Christmas. You'll. You'll have a Starlink re enter for Christmas, so.

B (20:13)

Well, that'd be something, especially if it re entered on my big fat head.

A (20:18)

Yeah.

B (20:18)

Speaking of such things going, Speaking of action, you saw a rocket launch.

A (20:23)

I did. I did. I actually after. Can you believe that in 24 years of covering the space program for Space.com I have never once gone to the beach in Florida?

B (20:34)

Yeah, but this wasn't your first launch, was it?

A (20:36)

No, well, no, I've seen many, many launches. It was actually. I mean, I think I saw a Starlink launch in June, but I saw it from the hotel in Orlando, you know, and, and so there was one. I was in Florida this week. There was one here. We got this video. I was looking at the, I was looking at the wrong launch pad. So it's been all the way over.

B (20:55)

That's our news ace.

A (20:57)

Yeah, but I went to Jetty park, which cost $15, if you don't know. And I just, I just headed on out there and it was, it was fun. It was fun to see a launch that way where you're not actually working, you're just going to enjoy it. And there was a whole crowd of people on that gear.

B (21:16)

Have you had to work for your special access at shuttle launches?

A (21:19)

Well, no, you're not paying attention. You're not, you're absorbing it in, like, a different way, right?

B (21:24)

Yeah.

A (21:24)

In fact, if you go down, if you go down one more line. John, there's like one more thing I wanted to share with him because it was something that I've never seen before. And, and so, so it's the next line 28. And I was walking from the parking lot to the beach and the shoreline in Jetty park when all of a sudden just a barge with an old rocket stage was just driving on by with a spent SpaceX Falcon 9 stage ready to be reused. There it is. There's a view of it. And this is a pretty sooty fella. So this tells you that this is one that has been around the block a few times.

B (22:03)

And I love that they don't scrub or paint them. It's just like, yeah, fly it again.

A (22:07)

But I, I've never seen that before. There's me at the beach, by the way, so that, you know, pictures or it didn't happen.

B (22:13)

Oh God. You know, you used to be able to drive down to San Pedro. You've been just down to San Pedro and you were living here before, right?

A (22:21)

Oh, like once or twice, I think.

B (22:23)

So you go all the way to the bottom of Gaffey and I mean all the way to where it goes past the marinas and you're going past these old abandoned and I guess they were canneries or something industrial buildings and SpaceX had their one time their port there for the recovery ships. It may still be there.

A (22:41)

Were they, weren't they going to build Starship there?

B (22:43)

Well, and they had this enormous Tyvek tent they were building at that point. They were building the composite wrapped tanks and testing them and I thought, oh my God, they're going to build Starship here. And then of course they moved. But it was cool because occasionally you could see the barge come back with the booster. So that was pretty neat. But not anymore. All right, speaking of not anymore, we ain't got no more time for, for this segment, but I do want to call out one thing before we go to the break. Yes, John? Stories of Space. So friend of the show, an old pal to both of us, Beth Mund, who hosts the casual space podcast, also leads a project called Stories of Space that will be spending has been sending digitized tales to the lunar surface and elsewhere. So far she's sent digitized messages to suborbital flights and I think orbit. So this is, I believe, the sixth mission working with Uplift Aerospace and Astrolabe and the Flip rover. And your message can be one of them if you go to the website@storiesofspace.com hit participate, drop your submission into the box and it's free. So what better Christmas gift can you give yourself or a loved one or maybe somebody you don't like? I don't know that they actually review these and, you know, Selenite might read it someday or a settler or something. So again, this ends on December 28th. Doesn't get any cooler than this. So stories of space.com and speaking of the coolest thing ever. We'll be right back.

A (24:18)

Hello, everybody.

C (24:19)

Leo laporte here. You know what a great gift would be, whether for the holidays or at just any time, A birthday, a membership in Club Twit. If you have a Twit listener in your family, somebody who enjoys our programming, and you want to give them a nice gift and support what we do, visit TWiT TV club TWiT. They'll really appreciate it and so will we. Thank you. Twit TV Club Twit.

B (24:45)

Okay, we're back. So, big story of the day. Isaacman is in.

A (24:51)

Yeah.

B (24:52)

Following a Senate confirmation vote on December 17, which as of today is two days ago, Jared Isaacman, our favorite private astronaut and space entrepreneur, is finally the new administrator of NASA. And not a day too soon. While we cheered one or two decisions made by Sean Duffy, we are cautiously optimistic for Isaacman's term. I think a few of us have some questions about the project Athena plan. 62 pages now this came out. It got a bit of a splash in the space media and some people were worried. And I, I read through it and then ordered up a summary. Just make sure I didn't miss something. I don't see anything particularly concerning there, unless you really hate the SLS or really hate commercial space because it's kind of spreading, spreading the butter across the toast. You know, it's a little bit of everything for everybody, including an emphasis on science, but it's strong on human space flight, strong on American space leadership, which, you know, we're flirting with. Kissing that goodbye. Thank you, China. But he also called for a leaner NASA, if that's even possible at this point, which I don't particularly support because I think they've already gutted it pretty thoroughly. But did also call for increased calculated risk taking, which I do support. I don't want to risk lives unnecessarily, but you can safety yourself into an action. China's not going to do that. So if we're serious about meeting These challenges, the 21st century space, you know, we, we don't need to do another Apollo 8, which was very risky, but we need probably to take Apollo 11 level chances.

A (26:30)

Well, we should put it in perspective.

B (26:32)

And with it budget constraints. Operating at 1/10 of NASA's 1960s budget.

A (26:36)

Okay, there's, there's a lot of. First of all, this is kind of like our big annual like showed. This is probably the best gift that NASA could have gotten for the end of the year is actually to have someone at the wheel. And I think we talked a little bit about that at the start. But you're talking about Project Athena and how like, you know, it's, it's got some critics and it's got some, some whatnot. But take, take for a minute, like the time in which it was written. It was written before all of the gutting really took place. There were some layoffs between like February and June when Isaac Moon was first being considered. But it wasn't like the wholesale like, like cuts that we saw throughout the summer and into the fall. And so, so that's really important to say that this wasn't like, when he's saying leaner, he's talking about like efficiency and whatnot and does it mean some missions? And this, this act, this came up in his second confirmation hearing at the Senate where at least one senator, and I want to say it was Cantwell had said that, that she was really concerned with that kind of language because, or perhaps it was Markey, actually, Ed Markey, because he had said in the first, you know, the first go around that he wasn't going to cancel anything or close any centers. And then this, this, this type of language in Project Athena suggests that maybe he would, I think that, that Isaacman is leaving his options open about what's the best way to try to, you know, fulfill not a mandate from, from the, you know, executive branch, but like the goals that have been set to the agency right now, which is get to the moon by 2028 at least, and, and find the most efficient way to get there. I still would like to know like, where a lot of the missions that were slate for cancellation under the Trump budget are set because they were all saved or for the most part with the Congress, the congressional budgets. But we're still in the continuing resolution for that and it's going to be that way until at least the end of January. So, so, you know, I think that there's still some uncertainty there about how much money they're going to get. And as we've learned from every single like Moon push that we've talked about over the last, like, what, 20 years that we've known each other. Yeah, that money is, is what's going to put it. Are they going to get the money or are they not so they can tell Isaacman to do everything and, and the kitchen sink by 2028.

B (29:03)

But you gotta pay for it.

A (29:04)

If you don't have a budget by the end of January and you just get continuing CRS over and over again that don't give you the money for this stuff, then we're never gonna get there.

B (29:13)

So do I have to say it?

A (29:16)

Wait, what?

B (29:16)

No bucks, no buck. Roger.

A (29:18)

There you go.

B (29:19)

Just had to go there.

A (29:20)

Isaacman knows this, though. Like, he's, he's.

B (29:23)

Yeah, no, he's not very successful. You know, I was talking to some people of certain influence yesterday who have concerns about Isaac men. And you know, I don't share those concerns. I, I do like the fact he's not preneur. I, I hope he doesn't place undo. What's the word I'm looking for? Reliance on private space. Because honestly, I mean, SpaceX has done great. There's no denying that Musk, love him or hate him, are indifferent. He's revolutionized launch and access. Blue Origin's getting there. Beyond that, though, you know, the smaller operators, as much as I laud their efforts, it hasn't been amazing yet. And so, you know, we, I think we hope we learned a lesson with this SpaceX lunar lander, that you can't just assume that they're going to do what they say they do because. Are going to do. Because it's, it doesn't always work out. So.

A (30:20)

Yeah, yeah. In fact, but we do there. We do, we do know a couple things because we're going into our holiday break, Obviously this week, one day after being confirmed 6730, by the way, that was the vote for, For Isaac, man. Yeah, his confirmation in the Senate. And then he reported to work yesterday as we're recording this, I believe so. So he is. He was there. And so, yeah, we've got this video that's playing now. This is. He has a new Twitter or X NASA admin, so you can follow him and see all the things that he's doing. And here he is at work and I think he. Here he has like a cheering applause as he walked into NASA headquarters on his first day to get like the, I guess the rundown there. There's the, the NASA headquarters that we all know and love. They're not showing the metal detectors that you have to go through.

B (31:11)

I actually haven't been inside the main headquarters. I've been to most of field centers, but not headquarters. But of course you have.

A (31:17)

Yeah, you were about to say.

B (31:18)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you're special and you get all the goodies all right. Artemis 2. Hey, hey, look at the calendar. We're supposed to be not, we're supposed to be doing a flyby. Let's see, right about now.

A (31:33)

Oh, we were supposed to be there in September, but then again in November, but then again now. Yeah.

B (31:37)

At one point, didn't they say 24 as well?

A (31:40)

Well, for Artemis 2. The Artemis 2 was supposed to be back in like 2022, like the year after the first. 2023. After the, the first one, Artemis 1. And so, but we were supposed to be on the Moon 2020. Rod, you know this, right, With Project Constellation. Well, so with the moon base and all sorts of landers and sample returns and all that, all that stuff. We didn't get any of it, Any of it because they didn't pay for it. So then they were aghast that there was a gap between.

B (32:08)

I'm shocked, shocked to find gambling at this establishment.

A (32:11)

That's right. So. But no, it's, it's had its challenges now they, at least there's been a lot of progress this year. Now we are just past the two year mark, the three year mark of Artemis 1, 2022, if you can relieve it in November. So since then they've built the new stack. It's, it's upright in the vab. I did ask this week to go see it. NASA said no, but I understand why. And, and they've been doing tests. In November, the crew got inside the Orion capsule. They couldn't close the hatch. There's apparently like a glitch, like a blemish on the hatch that they're looking into. But it's not supposed to, according to Reed Wiseman, the commander, be a showstopper for launch. And, and then they were going in to kind of like the end game. You know, the, the, the window opens around the 5th or so of February, the first one, the 5th to the 10th of February, which means that rollout is coming probably after, after the new year. And I know that they're getting serious because I got my. You've been accredited for the media pass for the launch. So that means that the campaign is in, in earnest underway. And, and they might actually go for February. We could, we can, we could be here on the moon by, by the next, the next quarter. Rod, could you believe it?

B (33:35)

Yeah, I could believe it because I've seen it before and I know Debbie downer here, but 1968, we orbited the moon for a day and now we're going to do this. We're not really sure. Depends on the launch window, 4,000 to 9,000 mile run past the back and back to Earth, which is fine. You know, it's a free return orbit. It's safe, but. Or free return trajectory, I should say, but it just feels a little. I don't know, it's a little bit of a fizzle to me, but I'm glad we're making progress. And here's to a landing with a lander that works soon. Let's see. We got 40 seconds. Okay, let's go land on an ad and we'll be right back. Stand by.

C (34:24)

Hey, everybody, it's Leo laporte. Are you trying to keep up with the world of Microsoft? It's moving fast, but we have two of the best experts in the world, Paul Thurat and Richard Campbell. They join me every Wednesday to talk about the latest from Microsoft on Windows Weekly. It's a lot more than just Windows. I hope you'll listen to the show every Wednesday. Easy enough. Just subscribe in your favorite podcast client to Windows Weekly or visit our website at TWIT tv. Ww. Microsoft's moving fast, but there's a way to stay ahead. That's Windows Weekly every Wednesday on Twitter.

B (34:57)

Mars Sample Return says we're returning. Let's talk about returning things. What a long and sordid story. So, just a little bit of backgrounder. Soviet Union, US started thinking about Mars sample return the 1960s. Started talking seriously in the 1970s. But it was a lot of big rockets and a lot of what at the time was pretty primitive technology. And rightly, I think they said, you know, this may be a bridge too far. And besides, golly gee, it's expensive and we spent all our money on Apollo and or space stations, so it didn't happen. So we've been talking about it ever since. JPL is charged with doing it in the 21st century. Come to NASA with a statement saying, you know, this is going to cost about $7 billion. And Bill Nelson, our glorious NASA administrator, gets a hold of that and holds a press conference saying that's going to cost $11 billion or is going away. Where'd you get that number from? Just the top end of the range. And so that's the end of our sample return for now, then. Well, we'll talk to private industry and see what they can do. And this case, at least, they're. They're speaking to at least one legacy aerospace contractor that hasn't chomped it as bad as Boeing has. So, Tarek, where are we with this?

A (36:16)

Well, we don't know. Right.

B (36:18)

Okay, on to the next story.

A (36:20)

So one of the shining lights this year is that at least people are talking about cheaper ways to get to Mars. So the juggernaut you're talking about is Lockheed Martin. They have what they think is a $3 billion plan to do a very simple Mars sample return. Lockheed Martin was kind of one of the forerunners too. They're the ones that had like the little missile that would like eject up like a tape cassette and then, and then launch into space. Yeah, really, it was really, really cool looking. But you know, as you say, like, the 3 billion is a very, a very big drop from 11 billion that the independent review said it was going to cost that NASA didn't have. And like we keep talking about the budget, the initial Trump budgets, Trump administration's budget for 2026 had marsupial return in the, in the crosshairs for cancellation. It's too expensive when we're going to send people there anyway. And they can do the sample return. Right. That's kind of the gist of what, of what that whole thing was. Of course it expects that you're going to be able to get people there faster than to get landers and, and.

B (37:28)

Sample stuff, which is so a bit silly, but okay.

A (37:32)

Yeah. And so, so, so, so at least there's a robust discussion going on about how to do this more, more affordable and also take advantage of a lot of the leeway. I mean, we've had Jim Green on the show before and he's, he's kind of walked us through why they made those, those little sample canisters the way that they did on the Perseverance rover so that at least the samples would be there. Of course, you got to send someone to go get them and like maybe China. Well, SpaceX, well, that was the point. Right. Jim said that it was that anyone could go get them, not just like one, one agency. So SpaceX is making a play too. They've got their own plans for things. Of course, they've got their hands full with the, the Artemis moon lander that they have to deliver right now, but they're, they're trying to, to keep, to keep on top of that. And also, I mean, you can't count out some of the smaller companies. Rocket Lab just launched their first mission to Mars with Escapade. And, and they are making a pretty serious play from what I can tell, for the Mars Telecommunications orbiter contract, which you would probably want to have if, if you were going to try to recover samples from the Surface of the Red planet. So, so I think that given that kind of involvement now, and not saying that only NASA has to do it and be like the Shepherd, I think we will probably get there. We got there with commercial crew. We could probably get there with a more simple return.

B (38:56)

I hope so.

A (38:57)

As long as, as long as it's not canceled after this continuing resolution ends.

B (39:02)

Well, let's bear in mind we got there with commercial crew solely because of SpaceX, certainly not because of Boeing.

A (39:08)

Can we talk about that real quick?

B (39:09)

One of the most shaming failures in modern aerospace that I can remember. Yeah, please.

A (39:14)

Let's talk about like the whole like SpaceX thing because I was in Florida this week in the, the gateway were at the Kennedy Space Center Visitors complex. Yeah. And, and that's where you can see a SpaceX Falcon Heavy booster. You can see a Dragon product, like an early Dragon cargo ship. You can see a Starliner cargo ship, a Starliner capsule, the Orion EFT1 capsule and, and a blue Origin New Shepherd. So you see all of these commercial things. There's also even a Sierra Nevada dream chaser up in the sky. And it dawned on me that this whole big gamble about having having two different commercial, you know, providers to get independence from Russia is, is, is fully paying off, you know, that decision to do that. And I know people say, oh, SpaceX, oh, they're so bad, or, or whatever, but the reason that they chose a some US providers is so they could be independent from Russia. And what happened? Russia blew up their launch pad, the only one that they have to launch people, and now they can't do anything. There's usually a cargo mission with Christmas goodies around this time from Russia and they can't do it because they don't have a pad. They might get it fixed by February. We'll have to wait and see. And then the kind of juggernaut, the leading folks, Boeing, who've been in the space game for decades upon decades upon decades, you know, kind of fell apart that last mile. And, and that's one of our stories that I flag, is that, you know, it's, it was this year that those astronauts came back on a SpaceX vehicle. And so it really, the, the, the drive to have two different partners paid off because if we only had one and something had happened at SpaceX, we'd be up a creek. So I just wanted to, I was thinking about that.

B (41:07)

Which creek would that be?

A (41:08)

Well, the not getting into space creek, I think, is creek.

B (41:15)

Yeah, yeah. And it's amazing, you know, something that Devoured that much money and that much effort, federal money. Boeing's money to some extent just kind of rumbled into silence. I know they're still fiddling with it, but it literally feels like they're fiddling with it and not really moving with it. And one gets the impression, despite whatever claims are made, that they pretty much written off this thing.

A (41:39)

Let's hope not. Let's hope.

B (41:40)

Which is astonishing because Boeing has been in the game since the earliest intermediate range ballistic missiles. It was in the game for the Saturn 5 big time. And since then in many ways, space station shuttle. And they just choked on this kind.

A (41:56)

Of, it's kind of astonishing really, when there's more than one destination to go to. SpaceX will not be able to, to provide flights to all of them at least. Yeah, but, so let's, let's.

B (42:06)

But from what we're seeing, Boeing won't either. It'll have to be another company. All right, let's move along from that because we could argue that all day. Mars perseverance Big story. Story of the year. Drumroll. May have found life on Mars. This is a story a few months old, but it was really one of those stop scrap.

A (42:24)

They're all going to be a few months old. We're looking back at the whole year.

B (42:28)

Are you done?

A (42:28)

Now you see, this is what I'm talking about. Are you done?

B (42:34)

You know, with this story rolled out, I thought this is the story of the, of the new century. And it just didn't get that kind of airplay. It didn't get that kind of excitement. As I've related before, back in the 90s, I fell prey to a April Fool's joke that then, then domineering America Online put up a headline, life found on Jupiter. Now we know Jupiter doesn't have a hard surface except really, really, really far down at its core. But I thought maybe they mean in the clouds. I was so excited. Then about two hours later I realized, crap, it's April Fool's Day. And sure enough, it took them a couple of days to admit it. I was just furious. I wrote a very strongly worded letter to Steve Case that he did not respond to. Yeah, how about me? But you know, this is the real deal. Now we did have maybe a brush with this back And I think 2007 with Spirit, where it imaged and examined an area that looked like it could have been a fossilized microbial mat. But not a lot was made of that. And it kind of just rolled into the annals of the past. But this is a big One.

A (43:42)

Yeah, this goes back to September of this year and the announcement on September 10th when NASA said that the Perseverance Rover had found, quote, unquote, possible biosignatures in a Mars rock that they called Cheva Falls. And, and what was really kind of intriguing is that they had found what they call the chemical fingerprints of these minerals called vivianite. And I'm sure I'm going to pronounce this wrong. Gregite, Grey gite. Grey Greek. Gregite. I. What if there's. If there's a mineralogist out there?

B (44:15)

Is there a geologist in the house?

A (44:16)

Someone. Someone. So. But. But the whole point is, is that they found them in an area that they know was once a lake bed. So it's all dry. And by having this combination of minerals in this area where they know that there was water, they think that it shows that there was, like, reactions between sediment and organic matter and it could be a fingerprint for microbial life. They basically went as close as you can say, hey, we found some life without saying it because they can't be sure because they can't touch it. They don't have the samples, which is. We're just talking about why you need those samples. But they are not going to say that they found life for sure because they got so burned in the 90s with the ALH meteorite, you know, and so, and so that was, like, so embarrassing. And they really want to make sure that it's 100% like they understand what they're seeing. But it was really exciting and it was a bit of a flash in the pan. We. I have to admit, we kind of ran that story into the ground, you know, like covering it from every single different angle that we could.

B (45:18)

You know what you're saying we. You mean space?

A (45:20)

Space.com@space.com. yeah.

B (45:22)

But I was proud of you. Impressed, whatever. I was so relieved that you did because like we said, it was kind of roundly, quietly, sort of shrugged off by everybody else. I thought, well, thank God for space, Doc.

A (45:35)

It was, it was interesting. Well, that's paid promotion. That's right. You know, I'll pay you your $50 after the show's over. Rod. There was the big. The big flash. Everyone said, oh, they found. They found signs of life on Mars. And. And then the story was over. Like, it went on. Everyone move on to the next thing. So. So I was really surprised, too. I think we ended up running like three or four different stories about did they really find life? No, they didn't announce that they found life. But they found this other stuff. How does it push the ball forward? It's always this incremental stuff. You know, eventually they're gonna find like a little mushroom or something and it's going to set our, all our brains on fire. But, you know, but this, this is a really big one. And I actually, we debated doing a whole big retrospective about this one this year. So I'm glad we're talking about it now because. Because we actually didn't get to do that in terms of like, for what we were going to do at space for the year. So this is my favorite one. My favorite, I think science story of the year was this Mars life potential because it's such a clear signal. And NASA made it clear that they thought it was a big deal with a press conference that was televised and everything.

B (46:46)

So. Well, as John Grossinger, chief scientist at the time for the Curiosity mission, I was writing my book about Curiosity, said we're all waiting for that dinosaur femur moment. And I have to say, Tarek, this story about samples in layered Martian soil has me feeling very sedimental. So I guess with that we should go to a break and we'll be right.

A (47:11)

I love it. Stand by because it's a rock.

B (47:15)

Got it. And we're back with a story that fills me with grief, woe, pain and indigestion. Space Shuttle Discovery, heretofore sitting peacefully at the Udvar Hazy center for the Smithsonian in Washington, Washington, D.C. of course, as we all know, and because we're true lovers of such things, has been ordered to move back to Houston because of the big beautiful bill and some misguided decisions by our representatives in Texas.

A (47:44)

I like, I like John's. I like John's physical pantomime for the big beautiful bill. No one, no one else can see it, but it's entertaining for Rod and I.

B (47:52)

So it's got curves. You know, we've talked about this. You'd have to, at least if you listen to this Smithsonian experts who are very good at this kind of thing, you'd have to cut it up into four or five pieces. This would severely compromise the structure. Now, this thing's never going to fly again, but it is, as the Smithy points out, the only truly preserved in its original state without any alterations for display. Space shuttle sitting on its landing gear in this hangar, blah, blah, blah. You know, if you ever want to go back and look at it in its prime condition because space planes are important for the future, this is it. So there's a bunch of reasons and not the least of which is Texas doesn't have enough money to do it. They've got just enough maybe to get the move instituted most of the way there. But they got to build a building, they got to put it back together, they got to make it nice and pretty, they got to set up a snack bar and all that kind of stuff. What the heck. Yeah, enlighten us, partner.

A (48:53)

Can you believe this was our biggest story of the entire year? This. This story was the most read story of our entire year. It was.

B (49:04)

I know about these things. Why do you think that is?

A (49:06)

I think it had. It hit a bunch of buttons for people and not just like, like space fans like you and I. This is. It was the one big beautiful bill which people have been talking about in the summer of 2025 very prominently about either how good it was on the Republican side or how bad it was on the Democrat side. And so that was going on in the background. And I don't think you could escape like, what was happening with that bill or that it was. It was going on. And then Ted Cruz, Senator of Texas, put in this bill a provision along with. What's his name? Cron. The other senator.

B (49:49)

John Cronin.

A (49:50)

John Cronin. This, this provision that would say, okay, as part of this bill, you will have to move a flown US American spacecraft to Houston so they can have it on display. Doesn't say Space Shuttle Discovery, but he said, he said, yeah, we ought to.

B (50:08)

Send him some pieces of Pioneer 5 or something.

A (50:10)

That's why, like, that's why, like, there's, there's a lot of wiggle room in it. The law says a flown American crewed spacecraft, but it could be any flown American crew to space that the Smithsonian has. But Cruise has been saying that he wants the space shuttle. He wants the space shuttle because of course, Mission Control is. Is in Houston. And so it had been going on through the whole year, ever since the passage of the bill in June and July, that, like, this is a dumb idea. You know, Houston had its chance. It didn't get a space shuttle, even though it did also bid for the shuttles. All four of the, the ones that they were talking about. Enterprise, Atlantis.

B (50:48)

Excuse me, but it has a shuttle on a shuttle transport plane. It just isn't a flown shuttle. Yeah, but it's 90 of a shuttle.

A (50:56)

Which is pretty good. They have the Intrepid, I believe. Right. Or the Independence. The Independence.

B (51:01)

Independence.

A (51:02)

Is it. Is it inspiration or Independence?

B (51:04)

I think it's independent.

A (51:05)

It's the one that was at the Kennedy Space center is what I remember, because I remember going inside it.

B (51:08)

Well, it's a mate.

A (51:11)

And there's. But they had, like, access so that you could go up into the payload bay.

B (51:15)

Yeah.

A (51:15)

And look inside and stuff like that. And. And so they. They do. They have that there. And it's. It is. It's very nice. It's mounted up on the thing, so it's very cool to see.

B (51:24)

It's a great show.

A (51:25)

And. And so there's a big back and forth about it. The Smithsonian says if you really want it, there's no plane that we can do it. We can't put it on a barge. We'd have to cut it apart. Which is true. They took the wings off, I think Endeavor, not Endeavor. They took the wings off one of them. Right.

B (51:40)

Wasn't Endeavors. La, Right.

A (51:43)

No, they didn't do. They didn't. They didn't take the wings off of any of them, actually. Now I think they took the wings off of Buran.

B (51:48)

I think they might have taken the.

A (51:51)

Because Endeavor, they stabilizer.

B (51:53)

No, I don't think they. They compromised. No, because Endeavor, they were cutting down trees.

A (51:57)

They cut down. They cut down pools and stuff like that.

B (51:59)

Yeah. So I was there reporting for you.

A (52:02)

You were.

B (52:02)

You were.

A (52:03)

I missed it. I missed it.

B (52:04)

$100 or something. Embar.

A (52:07)

I'm pretty sure it was at least $200, Rhonda.

B (52:09)

I don't think it was, actually.

A (52:11)

Oh, man. Well, it went. It went a lot farther back then.

B (52:14)

Your man running that department was a tough cookie.

A (52:18)

So. So in. In the time sense, though the latest is that going in to the second confirmation hearing of Jared Isaacman. John Cornyn released a statement saying that he had met Jared before the confirmation hearing and that had gotten, according to Cornwyn, in assurance from Jared that they would deliver the space shuttle Discovery to Houston.

B (52:45)

Really?

A (52:46)

Yeah. And so it's really important to do a couple of things. I'm pretty sure that what Isaacman said, because this is what he has said over and over again, is that he will follow the letter of the law, whatever it dictates NASA and him to do, to do it. So that's usually as far as he has gone on this matter in the past of saying that he'll do that, you know, whatever he's. He's. That has to do for the law. And. And so he did not come out and say, no, I didn't say this, but he also didn't say, yes, I will give you your space shuttle Discovery and Cruise, who was in the confirmation hearing? Did not ask Isaacman in this most recent one about Space Shuttle Discovery, which I thought was very interesting. They did not put him on the spot for that. So this will continue into the next year because, you know, the, the big beautiful bill is law. They have to deliver something and they have to start talking about it in a way now it will depend on if the Smithsonian is going to push their ownership because they say they've got full ownership of the space shuttle, that NASA or the, the government can't just claw it back now. And that was true of all of the documents. Yeah, they've got the paperwork for it. They've got the receipts, man. They got the receipts. So I don't think Judge Judy would, would be kind to the, to the, to the government if, if they showed up in that case. So we'll have to see how it, how it turns out over time if they're going to claw it back or, or cite something back. But, but apparently Cornwyn feels that he got some kind of confirmation from Isaacman. It's unclear what Isaac may have said, although usually he says he'll follow the letter of the law, which is whatever that law says, which is a crewed American spacecraft. And, and that could be anything. It could be a capsule, it could be a dragon capsule, you know, that kind of stuff. So we'll have to see.

B (54:38)

Corning can go suck a lemon. That's what I said. So, being mindful of your time commitments. Tarek. What? What? Pick a story. Oh, yeah. Well, here, let's just get this one out of the way because I know you're dying to do so. We found a new moon around. Around the seventh planet and better. Better your seventh planet than my seventh planet.

A (55:07)

We found a new moon around Uranus. Is what? Roger, this is a fun one. You know, I just, I, I will never.

B (55:17)

Your idea of fun of. My idea of different things.

A (55:19)

I don't, you know, you don't think that it's fun. You think it's, you think I'm being.

B (55:23)

A juvenile at all, you know, having had kidney stones. Anything about objects and the lower regions of my body really put me off. But, but please continue.

A (55:32)

Yeah.

B (55:37)

Oh, a drunken elf thought it was funny. How cool is that? Okay.

A (55:41)

Yeah, no, this, yeah, this, this came up in the summer, like in August is, is when scientists were using the James Webb Space Telescope to study Uranus and they, they basically found a new moon. And I don't think that they named it, but it means that they. Instead of having 28 moons, Uranus now has 29 and, and they basically observed Uranus tech 10 different times with you know, for an hour, almost 40 minutes at a time to do this. And, and they, you know, they say it's a small moon, but it's a significant discovery which you know, I wish people would say of my moons, but over time. What's that face, John?

B (56:25)

Wow. So enough about your smaller ridding objects.

A (56:33)

But it was something that Even the Voyager 2 spacecraft couldn't see back when they flew by 40 years ago. And I, I pointed this out because first of all it's always fun to say there's a new moon around Uranus, but also it's just really fun.

B (56:47)

Uranus is really one of the, yeah, thank you. It's supposed to be pronounced Uranus, but.

A (56:51)

Yeah, Uranus is really one of the, one of the most interesting planets in our solar system because it's so, so crazy. It's knocked on its side, it's got its own ring system, it's got like super, super fast winds like Neptune does as well. And, and it just has a really wild set of, set of moons themselves and we haven' studied it very much. And so finding out now, 40 years after we first flew by with Voyager 2, that there's still unexplained or unexplored satellites or things to be discovered I think is really cool. Plus it's the Webb Space Telescope which was launched five years ago this month on Christmas. So a nice bit of a fitting anniversary to kind of bring up as well.

B (57:37)

So. And Hubble turned 35 this year and is that right? Been providing yeoman service ever since we got the optics corrected. And this quarter the International space station is 25 years old. We've talked about it on the show, but you know, this is a remarkable achievement in human history. It's the most complicated machine ever flown. It's the largest machine ever designed, built or certainly flown. International effort, mostly paid for by the US But a lot of people contributed and continue to contribute. 25 years is a long time for a spacecraft of any type of, and its age is showing, but compared to Mir for instance, it's done very well. I mean the metallurgy has provide, proved to be very superior and there are parts of it that date back arguably to the 1980s.

A (58:27)

Well, I would, I would, I would do one little correction. You said that the space station is 25 years old. That space station is actually 27 years old.

B (58:34)

Sorry, right.

A (58:35)

Because the first, the first bit lost in 98, but it was, it was 25 years ago in 2000. That, that the first cruise took this in my eye.

B (58:48)

You're right.

A (58:49)

And. And of course, that milestone came up during the government shutdown, so NASA couldn't even shout it from the rafters or anything like that. So.

B (58:58)

Yeah. So this has been a wild, rollicking year. Next year, we are hoping, praying, counting on Mr. Isaacman to pull things together, cut the hemorrhaging, you know, get the budget to help do whatever it can to get. Get a budget passed and get NASA rocking and rolling and whatever decision is made about the lunar program, which at this point, you know, I'd be comfortable with the second best as long as it was meaningful, I. E. You know, sustainable and working towards a moon base. But whatever you're going to do, let's get on with it and stop mucking about.

A (59:36)

Yeah. By the way, we should point out this is like just a snapshot list that I threw together with Rod about our, our favorite stories of the year. But there were so many more that we couldn't. We could, we could talk here for days.

B (59:49)

What?

A (59:50)

So, so, so send us your favorite stories of the year. Is the, is the, is the. The ask, right? Let us know what you think are the. Your favorite stories of the year and maybe we'll talk about. About what you want to see next year, too.

B (60:01)

Well, and I appreciate you including me in this list, but you did it, brother, even though you were apparently at the edge of the grave. So next time you call me and say, hey, I'm sick, can you do this? But thank you for putting it together.

A (60:15)

I will lose all credibility if I do that after throwing a big fit about people not thinking that I could do the rundown when you were gone.

B (60:22)

That's a good point. Let's play a little holiday message for everybody, shall we?

A (60:28)

Yes. Let's. See the rockets, big and grand Standing tall across the land Polished steel and gleaming bright Ready for their Christmas flight. Oh, jingle boosters, jingle flames Shouting out their fiery names up they going to the blue Christmas wishes coming true of the cosmos with their sail leaving a celestial trail. The rocket on the Christmas tree. Merry Christmas to myself.

B (61:26)

And that's our holiday show. Thanks everybody for joining us today for episode 190 holiday special 2025. Tarek, my friend, my sick friend. Where can we find you making toys in your chili workshop these days?

A (61:39)

Well, a chili workshop is where you make dinner, my friend. Right. For winter. That sounds good. Yeah. But no, you'll find me@space.com as always, hopefully in California to be home for the holidays. That'll be nice. And then in 2026, going to the moon with NASA. Right. So this time it's serious. Right. So we'll actually do it and not have to have another one of these retrospectives where we don't go to the moon.

B (62:05)

Well, and hopefully you and I will be doing an episode from Houston which would be fun sometime in February if they get off the ground. But of course, as always, you can find me at pylebooks.com or at astermagazine.com or nss.org or working in my grinchy cave above Whoville. My favorite place to hang out. Always remember you could drop us a line at TwistWit TV. That's Twis. Twit TV. We welcome your comments, suggestions and ideas and we answer each and every email.

A (62:35)

And space jokes, don't forget to send.

B (62:36)

Them and don't forget to send those space jokes. So to everyone, happy holidays to all and ba humbug for me. See you next year.

A (62:47)

Batman smells. Let's all go to space.