This Week in Space 194: COPs in Space!

Date: January 23, 2026
Hosts: Rod Pyle (Editor in Chief, Ad Astra Magazine), Tarek Malik (Space.com)
Special Guest: Eli Sandler (Fellow, Harvard Kennedy School; Energy Policy, Space Governance Researcher)

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the current state and future of space governance. The centerpiece is an engaging interview with Eli Sandler of Harvard’s Kennedy School, focused on the Outer Space Treaty of 1967—its limitations, why it is overdue for revision, and a bold proposal: adopting a COP (Conference of the Parties) model for international space governance. The hosts also cover recent major space news, including Artemis II preparations, an astronaut medical evacuation, and spectacular solar storms impacting Earth.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Artemis II: NASA’s Return to the Moon (03:20–07:27)

• Artemis II Moon rocket rolled to launch pad 39B at Kennedy Space Center; crew is ready and excited.
• Launch Windows: Start as early as February 6, stretching to April and potentially further due to various orbital requirements.
• The rollout is a technical marvel, involving a $11-million-pound stack and a pebble-stone crawlerway.
• Quote:
  “Maybe, maybe we’re to the moon and back. I don’t know. It seems very, very tight.” — Tarek Malik (04:41)

2. Crew-11 Astronauts: Medical Drama in Orbit (07:28–09:41)

• A medical evacuation returned the Crew-11 astronauts safely to Earth.
• NASA remains tight-lipped on exactly what happened, but the use of space station ultrasound technology is highlighted as both a medical asset and a story of successful contingency planning.
• Quote:
  “They were able to deal with the situation in a favorable way... promising for plans to... have a permanent base on the moon to send astronauts to Mars.” — Tarek Malik (09:23)

3. Historic Solar Flare & Its Earth Effects (10:21–14:41)

• The strongest solar radiation storm in 20+ years (X-class flare) recently struck Earth, reaching S4 on the NOAA scale.
• While not dangerous to the ISS or Tiangong astronauts, it produced breathtaking auroras visible as far south as New Mexico.
• Discussion of the legendary 1859 Carrington Event underlines the potential risks of solar storms in the space age.
• Quote:
  “You gotta love the stories, you know, telegraph lines catching fire... they were able to send signals because there was so much energy being absorbed by these wires.” — Rod Pyle (13:07)

4. Interview: Eli Sandler on Updating the Outer Space Treaty

Eli’s Space Journey & Why Policy Now? (16:17–19:45)

• Eli loved space as a child, later pivoted back from a finance/energy career.
• Discovered that being an economist does not qualify one for NASA astronaut consideration—a moment of “STEM” exclusion.
• Sees overlaps: space-based solar power and parallels in global governance models.

How Space Commerce & Policy are Changing (20:06–25:50)

• Shift from “cost-plus” to “fixed-price” contracts has catalyzed transformation in space industry, opening opportunities for new entrants and venture investment.
• Space companies increasingly have viable business models and government as an anchor customer, supporting more diverse and rapid innovation.
• Quote:
  “NASA and the Space Force are opening up more and more programs...the world of big government aerospace contracting suddenly is going to be dominated by new companies that can do things really quickly.” — Eli Sandler (20:20)

Persistent Bottlenecks: Launch Access (25:50–26:32)

• Despite advances, launch bottlenecks remain the primary constraint for smaller, innovative companies.

The Case for Modernizing the Outer Space Treaty (27:26–30:52)

• The 1967 Treaty is outdated—crafted for a superpower era, never contemplated private actors, space debris, or resource use.
• Its language is intentionally vague; key legal concepts (e.g., “due regard”) remain undefined and unenforced.
• Treaty revision was always intended as a “first step,” but meaningful follow-ups have lapsed since the 1970s.
• Quote:
  “The real tragedy is that... we all sort of know what we need to do. But because treaty making basically ended in the 1970s, we never put into international law how interaction in space is supposed to work.” — Eli Sandler (30:52)

Vagueness, Liability & Space Traffic Rules (32:04–37:12)

• Space is now crowded: 15,000+ satellites, over a million objects in orbit, increasing collision risks.
• Operators’ norms for collision avoidance are inconsistent and insufficient for coming decades—soon there may be 30-40 near-collisions per company per year (35:30).
• There’s an urgent need for standardized de-orbit plans, maneuverable satellites, and rules delineating right-of-way for satellites.

Lunar Property, Resources, and Safety Zones (38:52–41:44)

• Treaty prohibits “national appropriation” of outer space but fails to precisely define what activities cross that line.
• Recent U.S., Japanese, and Luxembourg legal stances support owning lunar materials, which other major powers contest.
• “Safety zones” (Artemis Accords) polarize nations—U.S. pays lip service to the Treaty; China/Russia see safety zones as covert land grabs.
• Quote:
  “We should be talking about this with the Chinese and the Russians, because this is going to come up really soon because we’re all going back to the moon and we all want to use the same spots...” — Eli Sandler (41:26)

The Conference of the Parties (COP) Solution (42:40–47:20)

• Sandler’s big proposal: Model space law updates on climate COPs.
  • COPs allow regular, collective meetings where all treaty parties clarify, interpret, and update their commitments—without rewriting the treaty itself.
  • This iterative/communal “thickening” of law already works with international wetlands, climate, and more.
  • Would enable evolving, consensus-forming definitions (e.g., “due regard,” “liability”) and practical protocols as space activity grows.
• Quote:
  “If we’d had for the last 60 years delegates from every country coming together every year to discuss space issues, I think we would have been in a much, much better place.” — Eli Sandler (48:38)

Military, Property, and the Limits of International Law (51:09–52:31)

• Military satellites are generally exempt from registration and related rules—mirroring exceptions for military emissions in climate law.
• Sandler argues civilian/commercial space issues can and should be addressed pragmatically, even if military activities remain more opaque.

Will We Need a ‘Big Bang Event’ to Spur Change? (53:45–56:27)

• So far, events like anti-satellite tests and accidental collisions have not catalyzed comprehensive reform—but public/private incentives are aligning for prevention, not disaster reaction.
• The “tragedy of the commons” in space is solvable due to relatively low compliance costs and high shared incentives.

The Failed “Moon Treaty” & Why COPs Work (56:36–58:36)

• The Moon Agreement (1979) required resource sharing and failed to attract signatories.
• COP approach enables incremental, pragmatic progress without requiring big, all-or-nothing new treaties.

Space-Based Solar Power & The Need for Standards (58:36–62:48)

• Economics now make space-based solar power plausible under certain conditions.
• Would intensify demand for launches and require international agreements on frequencies, terrestrial receiver impacts, and interference—another area fit for iterative COP-like governance.
• Quote:
  “That’s exactly...what we need regulation on. Because while that’s not going to fry a bird or make a plane drop out of the sky, that could interfere with terrestrial, let’s say WiFi or communication networks. And that probably needs to be regulated at the international level.” — Eli Sandler (61:43)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “Maybe… we’re to the moon and back. I don’t know. Seems very, very tight.” — Tarek Malik (04:41)
• “They were able to deal with the situation in a favorable way… promising for plans to… have a permanent base on the moon to send astronauts to Mars.” — Tarek Malik (09:23)
• “You gotta love the stories, you know, telegraph lines catching fire... they were able to send signals because there was so much energy being absorbed by these wires.” — Rod Pyle (13:07)
• “The real tragedy is that... we all sort of know what we need to do. But because treaty making basically ended in the 1970s, we never put into international law how interaction in space is supposed to work.” — Eli Sandler (30:52)
• “If we’d had for the last 60 years delegates from every country coming together every year to discuss space issues, I think we would have been in a much, much better place.” — Eli Sandler (48:38)
• “That could interfere with terrestrial, let’s say WiFi or communication networks. And that probably needs to be regulated at the international level.” — Eli Sandler (61:43)

Important Timestamps

• Artemis II news: 03:20–07:27
• Crew-11 medical evacuation: 07:28–09:41
• Solar storm & auroras: 10:21–14:41
• Eli Sandler Interview Begins: 16:15
• Outer Space Treaty discussion: 27:26–34:33
• Space debris threat and traffic rules: 35:30–37:12
• Lunar property & safety zones: 38:52–41:44
• Conference of Parties (COP) in space explained: 42:40–47:20
• Moon Treaty and why it failed: 56:36–58:36
• Space solar power & international regulation: 58:36–62:48

Episode Closing & Follow Up

• Where to follow Eli Sandler: Harvard Kennedy School website & LinkedIn (63:11)
• Where to find the hosts:
  • Tarek Malik: Space.com, socials @tarekjmalik (63:20)
  • Rod Pyle: pilebooks.com, adastramagazine.com

Final Thoughts

“COPs in Space!” unpacks how space law has not kept pace with the commercial boom, national ambitions, and real-world orbital challenges faced today. Eli Sandler makes a compelling case for evolving treaties through regular, participatory COP-style gatherings—a flexible system that could keep the peace and foster sustainable growth as humanity spreads into the solar system.