This Week in Space 199: The Obsolete Astronaut?

Date: February 27, 2026
Host: Rod Pyle (Astro Magazine)
Co-host: Tarek Malik (Space.com)
Guest: Dr. Pascal Lee (SETI Institute, Haughton Mars Project)

Episode Overview

Theme:
This engaging episode tackles a provocative question: with rapid advances in robotics and artificial intelligence, are human astronauts becoming obsolete? The conversation covers breaking space news—especially NASA’s new Artemis mission strategy—before exploring the future of human and robot exploration on the Moon, Mars, and beyond. Renowned planetary scientist Dr. Pascal Lee shares exclusive insights from the latest National Academy report on human Mars missions and leads a thought-provoking discussion on the shifting roles of astronauts in an AI-driven future.

Key Topics & Discussions

1. NASA’s Artemis Program Major Revamp

(Starts ~05:00)

• News Recap:
  Artemis II (crewed lunar flyby) delayed, rolled back into Vehicle Assembly Building (VAB) due to upper-stage helium system issues.
• Strategic Shift:
  NASA announced a new stepwise approach to Artemis moon landings:
  • Artemis III (~2027): Will not attempt a lunar landing, but stay in Earth orbit and rendezvous with one or both commercial landers (SpaceX Starship, Blue Origin’s Blue Moon).
  • Artemis IV (2028): Now targeted as the first lunar surface landing mission (potentially closely followed by Artemis V).
  • SLS "Block 1" rocket design is now locked in; no new advanced upper stage as previously planned.
  • Draws comparisons with iterative Apollo test missions (Apollo 7-10) rather than earlier “all at once” Artemis strategies.
• Motivation:
  As Tarek notes, “Jared Isaacman said that the low flight rate of the SLS rocket is one of the biggest issues, because if you're launching every three years, it's fundamentally a different rocket because you've upgraded big things.” (09:17)
• Implications:
  This resembles Apollo’s pace but is on a far tighter budget: “Apollo has a big spike in the mid to late 60s and Artemis is just... slow growth over a decade plus, a lot less money.” (10:35)

2. Perspectives on Artemis Changes

(Starts ~13:46)

• Dr. Pascal Lee’s View:
  • Welcomes the shift to more SLS flights rather than phasing it out.
  • Predicts NASA may pivot away from the lunar Gateway toward building a base on the moon’s surface:
    “I suspect that we're going to pivot to doing a moon base at the surface of the moon and back away from Gateway... Right now, Gateway involves a lot of international partners and everybody has to be somehow ready for that pivot.” (14:19)
  • Disappointed that lunar rover missions still aren’t prioritized: “I don't understand after Apollo 15, 16 & 17 we’d go back to sort of an Apollo 14 situation, just astronauts on foot... It’s a real bummer in terms of exploration range.” (17:05)

3. Spotlight: Pascal Lee’s Work and Mars Analogues

(Starts ~20:01)

• Background:
  Dr. Lee traces his journey from Hong Kong and France to becoming Carl Sagan’s last teaching assistant at Cornell, then a Mars analog explorer in the Canadian Arctic:
  “We have established a base on Devon Island in the Arctic... a place we call Mars on Earth, the largest uninhabited island, with geology incredibly similar to Mars.” (21:35)
• Fieldwork:
  His team tests spacesuits, vehicles, and exploration strategies relevant for Mars.

4. Key Findings: National Academy Report on Human Exploration of Mars

(Starts ~23:45)

• Report Focus:
  NASA asked the National Academies to identify "top science priorities for humans should they go to Mars" and to consider several scenarios ("campaigns") of human Mars missions.
• Mission Scenarios:
  a) Three 30-sol (Martian day) missions each with short surface stays
  b) Initial 30-sol crewed mission, followed by an uncrewed infrastructure mission, then a 300+ day crewed mission—this second scenario was Lee’s and the committee’s preferred approach.
• Top Recommendations:
  1. Address planetary protection: How to balance searching for life (which needs access to watery locations) with contamination risks.
     “Right now, the guideline...is to not go to places where you might come in contact with water... but if searching for life is a priority—there’s a line that needs to be drawn.” (31:18)
  2. Build a Mars Surface Lab:
     How much science can/should be done in situ vs. bringing samples back?
  3. Sample Return:
     Strategy and engineering for safely collecting and returning Mars material.
  4. Human-Agent (AI/Robotics) Interaction:
     Hold regular conferences between robotics/AI and planetary exploration communities; the balance of “watery meatbags" vs. robots is evolving fast:
     “If you design a human mission to Mars today, with robotic and AI support, it might look quite different from what you might be designing five or ten years from now.” (29:00)

5. The Question: Is the Astronaut Becoming Obsolete?

(Starts ~44:29)

• Rise of Humanoid Robots and AI:
  Dr. Lee highlights the rapid advance of humanoid robots and their coming ubiquity:
  “We're marching and running towards achieving that form of robotics...combining artificial intelligence with robotics to create an artificial human that would have artificial general intelligence...” (44:29)
• Why Humanoid?
  • Familiarity: “We like to interact with something we can relate to optimally.”
  • Human-shaped world: “Our way of life is organized around... stairs, ladders—designed for humans.”
• Future Utilization:
  • As these robots develop general, then superintelligence, we may accept them as explorers or proxies:
    “Once robots achieve this stage of being essentially artificial humans, our thirst for sending biological humans into space will probably be reduced.” (49:56)
  • Societal views will shift—parallels to Star Trek’s “Data”:
    “When Data is broken, you sort of feel sad for it... you want it to get fixed.” (49:10)
• Killer Quote:
  “We will get to the point where essentially humanoid robots will be as resilient and robust as the robots that we send to Mars today... but with the intelligence of humans, if not more.” (51:36)

6. The Romance of Human Exploration (and the Limits of “Meatbags”)

(Starts ~50:13)

• Rod Pyle's Counterpoint:
  • The emotional and cultural motivation for human adventure and “going where no one has gone before” may always hold value.
  • Suggests possible hybrid/cyborg explorers: “...maybe that brings it to a more human form that we can buy into. I just think a lot of people are going to push back on the Optimus robot—because of course it's going to talk just like Elon...” (51:22)

7. Long-term Vision: Settlements and Interstellar Probe Proxies

(Starts ~40:11, 59:05)

• Mars Bases Before Cities:
  Pascal: “I don’t see a city of a million biological humans on Mars any time soon, and I don’t think it’s even desirable... Mars is not an ‘insurance policy’ for life on Earth.” (41:18)
• Tourism and Outposts:
  Small scale research bases and “resorts” for adventurous tourists—yes. Large-scale settlement—not realistic for the foreseeable future.
• Ultimately:
  • The most plausible path to exploring the stars may be leveraging intelligent robotic proxies: “With the advent of Android robots, we can just travel to other stars in our, you know, basic DNA form and a few other pieces of information we need... This becomes a viable proposition... dispatching an army of imperial droids across our neighborhood in the galaxy.” (59:16)

8. Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Artemis’ Changing Plans:
  “You have an issue that it takes two years to get to, then it takes another two years to fix it... Right now, it's like we're four years away from the 2022 test flight of Artemis I.” (08:40)
• On Planetary Protection Dilemma:
  “We already know there is Earth life on Mars because we brought it with us... tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of microbes.” (31:19)
• On Shift from Apollo to Artemis:
  “Clear as day—nothing has worked out the way that [the original Artemis plan] in the first Trump administration... Spacesuits, rovers, even landers aren’t ready. You have SLS, Orion... and that’s it.” – Tarek (10:58)
• On Human vs. Robotic Future:
  “The distinction that we still have about humans vs. robots is simply going to really progressively fade away.” – Pascal (51:36)
• On Starship/Blue Moon lunar landers:
  [Joking] “Cue the laugh track.” – Rod (07:31)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• 05:00 — NASA Artemis news and new lunar plans
• 13:46 — Pascal Lee weighs in and forecasts Gateway’s future
• 20:01 — Dr. Lee’s Mars analog fieldwork and backstory
• 23:45 — National Academy Mars report: scenarios, science priorities
• 31:18 — Planetary protection and Mars microbial contamination dilemma
• 44:29 — Are human astronauts becoming obsolete? The humanoid robot revolution
• 49:56 — Emotional bonds with robot explorers and Star Trek analogies
• 51:18 — Cyborgs, consciousness transfer, and the balance of romance vs. efficiency
• 59:05 — Interstellar exploration: sending android armies and human DNA

Closing and Further Info

• Dr. Pascal Lee can be followed on X (@PascalLeeTweets) and at pascallee.net.
• Tarek Malik: Space.com, LinkedIn, and @TarekjMalik on socials.
• Rod Pyle: pilebooks.com, Astro magazine, upcoming live event at Bowers Museum, Orange County, March 19th.
• The National Academy Mars report PDF is downloadable online; hard copies forthcoming.

Final Words

The hosts invite listeners to send questions for their upcoming “Ask Us Anything” 200th episode and to contribute space jokes.

Memorable Episode Title:

"The obsolete astronaut?"—a question that remains open, as humans, robots, and even cyborg hybrids race for the final frontier.