Podcast Summary: This Week in Tech 1039: Mmmm Ham Shack

Release Date: July 7, 2025

Hosts and Guests

• Leo Laporte – Host
• Kathy Gellis – Attorney and Supreme Court expert from Tech Dirt
• Nicholas De Leon – Senior Electronics Reporter at Consumer Reports
• D – Co-host/Participant

1. Supreme Court Decisions Impacting the Internet

Paxton v. Free Speech Coalition

Kathy Gellis and Nicholas De Leon delve into the recent Supreme Court decision in Paxton v. Free Speech Coalition, which scrutinizes Texas's age verification law for social media platforms.

• Overview of the Case: Texas enacted a law requiring age verification on social media to restrict access to adult content. The Free Speech Coalition, an industry group representing adult content producers, challenged this law, arguing it infringes upon First Amendment rights.

• Legal Standards Discussed:

  • Strict Scrutiny: The highest level of scrutiny, requiring laws to be narrowly tailored to serve a compelling state interest.
  • Rational Basis: The lowest level, where laws must be rationally related to a legitimate government interest.
  • Intermediate Scrutiny: A middle ground applied in certain cases.

• Court's Rationale: The Supreme Court sided with Texas (6-3 decision), applying intermediate scrutiny by deeming the law as content-neutral and thus not requiring strict scrutiny. This shift allows broader government control over online content without the stringent checks previously mandated by the First Amendment.

  Kathy Gellis [05:17]: "They're trying to age gate the Internet, because if you can age gate the Internet, age gating is one way to censor the Internet."

• Implications:

  • For Tech Industry: States might implement similar age verification laws affecting not just adult content but broader online speech, leading to increased censorship.
  • First Amendment Concerns: The decision potentially weakens protections for online speech, making it easier for laws to restrict access based on content.

  Leo Laporte [10:12]: "There's a desire, I don't think unreasonable to say, well, how can we age gate it so that adults can still see it, but kids can't."

• Kathy's Analysis: She criticizes the decision for blurring the lines of protected speech and creating a new category where certain expressions are partially protected. The dissent by Justice Kagan highlights the internal conflict within the Court regarding this ruling.

  Kathy Gellis [20:42]: "There's a desire, I don't think unreasonable to say, well, how can we age gate it so that adults can still see it, but kids can't."

2. Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) and Cox v. Sony

Cox Communications v. Sony Entertainment

Kathy Gellis explains ongoing litigation involving Cox Communications and Sony Entertainment under the DMCA framework.

• Background: Cox, a full-service ISP, faced lawsuits for failing to enforce DMCA provisions by not disabling access for repeat infringers, leading to significant liability.

  Kathy Gellis [05:57]: "They're trying to age gate the Internet, because if you can age gate the Internet, age gating is one way to censor the Internet." (Contextual relevance)

• Current Status: The Supreme Court has granted certiorari to determine whether ISPs can be held liable for the actions of their users under secondary liability concepts.

• Key Issues:

  • Secondary Liability: Whether ISPs should be responsible for infringing activities conducted by their users.
  • Strict Scrutiny vs. Rational Basis: The Court's current stance may lower the threshold for holding ISPs accountable, moving away from the established standards.

  Kathy Gellis [13:03]: "A very opposite. It's basically did the government have any sort of rational basis to do what it did? Okay, fine. It's good."

• Implications:

  • For ISPs: Higher liability risks for non-compliance with DMCA takedown requests.
  • For Users: Potential loss of internet access for alleged infringers without proper judicial proceedings.
  • Broader Outlook: The decision poses challenges for the safe harbor provisions that currently protect ISPs from extensive liability.

  Leo Laporte [15:23]: "The long-term impact is unknown."

3. AI and Copyright Ingestion Cases

Anthropic and Meta Cases

Kathy and Leo discuss conflicting Supreme Court decisions from the Northern District of California regarding AI’s use of copyrighted materials.

• Anthropic Case:

  • Issue: Anthropic used both licensed and pirated books to train its AI models.
  • Judge Alsup’s Ruling: Found training AI on unlicensed works as transformatively fair use, dismissing claims regarding fair use but upholding issues related to pirated content.

  Kathy Gellis [63:25]: "But the case will, as you say, will go forward."

• Meta Case (Kadri v. Mehta):

  • Issue: Similar to Anthropic but focused on Meta’s data ingestion practices.
  • Judge Chabria’s Ruling: Determined that AI training affects the market for copyrighted works, not deeming it as fair use.

  Kathy Gellis [66:00]: "The Cadre decision tends to use the output to color the analysis of the legality of the input."

• Diverging Judicial Opinions:

  • Judge Alsup: Emphasized the transformative nature of AI training.
  • Judge Chabria: Focused on the market impact, suggesting AI training infringes on existing markets for copyrighted works.

• Future Outlook: These conflicting rulings indicate unresolved legal standards surrounding AI and copyright, likely leading to further appeals and potential Supreme Court intervention.

  Kathy Gellis [70:09]: "This is a fundamental question, though, and we've talked about it a number of times when you've been on our shows."

4. Microsoft’s Massive Layoffs and Gaming Division Cuts

Layoffs Overview

Leo and Nicholas discuss Microsoft's recent layoffs, particularly within the gaming division following the acquisition of Activision Blizzard.

• Layoff Statistics: Microsoft announced the termination of 9,000 employees, primarily in the gaming sector.

  Nicholas De Leon [73:55]: "Like, no, what good."

• Reasons:

  • Overhiring: Claims of overstaffing in certain departments.
  • Impact of AI: Speculation that AI tools like GitHub Copilot may reduce the need for managerial oversight and coding roles.
  • Financial Strain from Activision Acquisition: Integrating new acquisitions may have led to redundancies and budget reallocations.

• Industry Impact:

  • Game Development: Studios like Arcane and Perfect Dark are shutting down, leading to concerns over the sustainability of the Game Pass model.
  • Developer Sentiment: Rising anxiety among developers questioning the viability of current game production practices and compensation models.

  Leo Laporte [75:21]: "It's like, yeah, these live service games as they stick around."

5. TikTok Ban Saga and Legal Challenges

Extending the TikTok Ban Deadline

The hosts explore the ongoing legal battle surrounding TikTok’s presence in the U.S., highlighting significant extensions and political maneuvering.

• Background: Congress passed a law banning TikTok unless sold to a U.S. company by January 19th, 2025. Deadlines have been repeatedly extended, now moving to September.

• Apple and Google’s Role: Initially pulled TikTok from their app stores due to legal pressures but reinstated it following letters from Attorney General Pam Bondi.

  Leo Laporte [92:38]: "You've got to download the new app to be able to continue using the service at least until March of next year."

• Legal and Political Insights:

  • Attorney General’s Letters: Asserted that immediate shutdown would interfere with national security and executive duties, allowing TikTok’s return to app stores despite the law.
  • Potential Implications: Raises questions about executive overreach and the enforceability of executive orders vis-à-vis established laws.

  Kathy Gellis [95:57]: "You can't violate the Constitution by violating the Constitution."

• TikTok’s Future: The migration to a new app (M2) and the plan to sell TikTok's U.S. operations to Oracle-backed consortium are met with skepticism regarding feasibility and effectiveness.

  Leo Laporte [96:06]: "Project Texas. Oracle's been running this server for TikTok in the US for US citizens for a couple of years now."

6. Amateur Radio and Hamshacks

Promoting Amateur Radio Interests

Kathy and Leo discuss the resurgence of interest in amateur radio (ham radio) and the planning of events like Hamfest.

• Personal Experiences: Kathy shares her positive experience with amateur radio during community emergency response drills, emphasizing the importance of accountability and human interaction.

  Leo Laporte [108:12]: "Introducing the importance of hamshacks in emergencies."

• Encouragement to Listeners: Leo encourages listeners to obtain amateur radio licenses and participate in activities like Hamfest to stay connected and prepared for emergencies.

  Kathy Gellis [112:05]: "I just have to put on a Windows XP computer together is what you."

7. Microsoft and Tariffs Impact on Tech Industry

Influence of Tax Code Changes

The discussion shifts to how changes in the U.S. tax code, particularly concerning R&D amortization under Section 174, have contributed to layoffs in the tech industry.

• Tax Code Alterations: The 2022 change requiring immediate deduction of R&D expenses instead of amortizing them over five years increases financial strain on companies with large R&D teams.

  Leo Laporte [83:20]: "And that is at least some people's explanation of why all of these tech layoffs in the last two years."

• Impact on Tech Companies: Firms with extensive R&D investments, including game developers and technology innovators, are forced to reassess their financial strategies, leading to workforce reductions.

  Kathy Gellis [84:35]: "When the company is so profitable, like it does feel very weird."

8. AI Security and Zscaler Sponsorship

AI’s Dual Role in Security

Leo introduces a sponsorship segment featuring Zscaler, discussing AI’s role in both enhancing business operations and posing new security threats.

• AI in Cybersecurity:

  • Positive: AI-driven tools boost employee productivity, aid in coding, and enhance marketing efforts.
  • Negative: Hackers leverage AI to conduct more effective and relentless cyber attacks, including sophisticated phishing schemes.

• Zscaler’s Solution: Emphasizes a comprehensive zero-trust architecture integrated with AI to protect against evolving threats, ensuring both private and public AI uses are secure.

  Leo Laporte [Zscaler Ad Segment]: "AI is both good and bad. There's no doubt companies have to really think about how they protect their private and public use of AI."

9. Closing Remarks and Community Engagement

Engagement and Upcoming Events

• Club TWiT Membership: Leo highlights the benefits of Club TWiT membership, including private feeds, Discord access, and exclusive events like the AI users group and book clubs.

  Leo Laporte [Final Section]: "Club TWiT members pay $10 a month, $120 a year... we try to make it as interesting as possible because it's so important to our survival."

• Personal Announcements: Congratulations to Nicholas De Leon on his engagement, with plans for a small wedding in December.

• Amateur Radio Promotion: Encouragement for listeners to explore amateur radio as a meaningful hobby and emergency preparedness tool.

Notable Quotes

1. Kathy Gellis [05:20]: "They're trying to age gate the Internet, because if you can age gate the Internet, age gating is one way to censor the Internet."

2. Leo Laporte [10:12]: "There's a desire, I don't think unreasonable to say, well, how can we age gate it so that adults can still see it, but kids can't."

3. Kathy Gellis [20:42]: "There's a desire, I don't think unreasonable to say, well, how can we age gate it so that adults can still see it, but kids can't."

4. Kathy Gellis [13:03]: "A very opposite. It's basically did the government have any sort of rational basis to do what it did? Okay, fine. It's good."

5. Leo Laporte [15:23]: "The long-term impact is unknown."

6. Kathy Gellis [66:00]: "So the Cadre decision tends to use the output to color the analysis of the legality of the input."

7. Leo Laporte [70:09]: "This is a fundamental question, though, and we've talked about it a number of times when you've been on our shows."

8. Kathy Gellis [95:28]: "It is a deeply troubling order."

9. Leo Laporte [83:20]: "And that is at least some people's explanation of why all of these tech layoffs in the last two years."

10. Kathy Gellis [84:35]: "When the company is so profitable, like it does feel very weird."

Conclusion

In this episode of This Week in Tech, the hosts provide an in-depth analysis of significant Supreme Court decisions impacting internet censorship and First Amendment rights, ongoing litigation under the DMCA, AI’s evolving relationship with copyright laws, and the repercussions of tax code changes on the tech industry's workforce. Additionally, they explore the complicated saga of TikTok’s ban in the U.S., Microsoft's substantial layoffs, and the growing relevance of amateur radio enthusiasts in today's digital age. The episode concludes with insights into AI security challenges and community engagement initiatives, highlighting the podcast's commitment to providing insightful and trustworthy tech discussions.