Untitled Linux Show 192: You Shouldn't Have to Care
Release Date: March 2, 2025
Host: Jonathan Bennett
Guests: Rob Campbell, Ken Starks, Jeff

1. Introduction

In Episode 192 of the Untitled Linux Show, host Jonathan Bennett and his co-hosts Rob Campbell, Ken Starks, and Jeff delve into a myriad of topics affecting the Linux and open-source communities. From the ongoing debates surrounding the Rust programming language in the Linux kernel to significant legal battles over GPL licensing, the panel offers insightful discussions on the current state and future of open-source software.

2. Rust in the Linux Kernel and Maintainer Resignations

Key Discussion Points:

• Kristof Helweg’s Resignation: Rob Campbell initiates the discussion by addressing the continued controversies surrounding Rust's integration into the Linux kernel. Kristof Helweg, a maintainer for the DMA mapping subsystem, has resigned from his role, citing disagreements over Rust's role in kernel development.

• Community Reactions: The panel examines various community responses, highlighting both criticism and support for Rust's inclusion. Rob mentions a Phoronix article detailing the polarized views, including statements like, “Rust is less than 0.12% of the kernel code, yet there are double the Python files without complaints.”

• Linus Torvalds' Stance: Jonathan Bennett reflects on Linus Torvalds' comments, suggesting respect for Helweg’s decision, stating, "He realized what needed to be done and did it."

Notable Quotes:

• Rob Campbell [03:27]: "Rust is less than 0.12% of the kernel code, and yet there are more than double as many Python files in the source tree, and nobody's complaining about that."

• Jonathan Bennett [09:00]: "I don't think this one is going to be the worst case scenario that people seem to think it is."

3. GPL Licensing Legal Battle: PureThink vs. Neo4j

Key Discussion Points:

• Case Overview: Ken Starks presents a legal conflict where PureThink and iGov are challenging Neo4j's amendments to the GNU Affero General Public License version 3 (AGPLv3). The crux of the dispute is Neo4j's additional restrictions on their AGPL-licensed software, which PureThink and others argue violate the original license terms.

• Potential Implications: The outcome could set a precedent affecting all GPLv3 licenses, potentially allowing licensors to impose unforeseen restrictions, thereby undermining open-source trust.

• Software Freedom Conservancy's Role: Jeff raises the possibility of higher courts getting involved, although Jonathan Bennett remains skeptical about the case reaching the Supreme Court.

Notable Quotes:

• Ken Starks [12:26]: "If the Ninth Circuit upholds the lower court's ruling, it won't just kill GPLv3. It will create a dangerous legal precedent that could be used to undermine all open source licenses."

• Jeff [17:42]: "Are we sure that it's not a... If the case doesn't go their way, then they can just appeal it to the Supreme Court."

4. Mozilla Firefox Privacy Policy Changes

Key Discussion Points:

• FAQ Modification: Jonathan Bennett discusses Mozilla’s removal of the explicit statement, “Firefox doesn’t sell your personal data,” from their FAQ. The change is attributed to compliance with broad legal definitions of data sale, particularly concerning their oHTTP service.

• Community Backlash: The panel expresses concern over Mozilla's messaging, interpreting the new statement as an admission that Firefox does engage in data selling, albeit anonymized and aggregated.

• Implications for Users: Rob Campbell suggests that Mozilla's vague communication could erode user trust, while Ken Starks emphasizes the importance of clear privacy policies.

Notable Quotes:

• Jonathan Bennett [27:02]: "We are selling user data. That’s the way I read that."

• Rob Campbell [28:14]: "It sounds like they're selling your data."

5. AMD Radeon RX 9000 Series and ROCM vs. CUDA

Key Discussion Points:

• New GPU Announcements: Jeff covers AMD’s release of the Radeon RX9070 and RX97 XT graphics cards. The focus is on AMD’s ROCM (Radeon Open Compute) competing with Nvidia’s CUDA in the scientific and AI compute domains.

• ROCM’s Open-Source Advantage: ROCM is highlighted for being an open compute stack, enabling easier migration of CUDA-based applications, thereby fostering greater flexibility and competition.

• Market Implications: The panel discusses how ROCM support is initially targeting high-end GPUs but is expected to trickle down, potentially challenging Nvidia’s dominance in compute workloads.

Notable Quotes:

• Jeff [63:08]: "AMD has been investing significant effort into ROCM, aiming to compete not just in gaming, but also the compute domain."

• Jonathan Bennett [68:12]: "There is beginning to be more and more use cases for that. And I think you'll see people doing more things with AI inside a video game."

6. Fish Shell Conversion to Rust

Key Discussion Points:

• Migration Overview: Jeff reports on the Fish shell’s transition from C++ to Rust, citing its benefits in enhancing performance and safety. The migration includes banning unsafe C functions like gets and scanf to prevent buffer overflows.

• Community Reception: While some view the migration positively, others express concern over Rust's learning curve and its impact on existing workflows.

• Future of Fish Shell: The panel anticipates that continuous iteration and testing will bolster Fish’s stability without necessitating a complete rewrite, aligning with Rust’s strengths.

Notable Quotes:

• Jeff [33:13]: "They’re not going to rewrite Curl in any language because they’re at the point where they’re just polishing and bug fixing."

• Jonathan Bennett [37:59]: "Rust is not a silver bullet. You can have logic errors in your Rust code easy enough."

7. Open-Sourcing Command and Conquer Games

Key Discussion Points:

• EA’s Move to Open Source: Rob Campbell excitedly shares that Electronic Arts has open-sourced several classic Command and Conquer titles, including Red Alert and Generals.

• Community Opportunities: The release allows enthusiasts to fork and modernize these games for Linux compatibility, potentially revitalizing interest and fostering community-driven enhancements.

• Technical Considerations: Jonathan Bennett notes the challenges of updating legacy games, such as dependency on older technologies like DirectX 5, but remains hopeful about community efforts to adapt these classics for modern systems.

Notable Quotes:

• Rob Campbell [73:11]: "One of my favorite games was Command and Conquer, a real-time strategy game... Now EA has enabled Steam Workshop support for more Command and Conquer titles."

• Jonathan Bennett [78:07]: "They're fun games. They are. Now, I will say that real-time strategy is probably not everyone's cup of tea, but they are fun."

8. Pipewire Commands: PW Loopback

Key Discussion Points:

• Introduction to PW Loopback: Ken Starks introduces PW loopback, a Pipewire command used to create loopback nodes for audio devices, facilitating advanced audio routing and management directly from the command line.

• Practical Applications: Jonathan Bennett shares personal use cases, such as mixing audio streams for live recordings and applying real-time audio effects like compression.

• Technical Demonstration: The panel discusses configuring loopback nodes with various parameters (e.g., latency, delay) and integrating them into existing audio workflows, enhancing flexibility for both casual and professional users.

Notable Quotes:

• Ken Starks [80:45]: "PW loopback allows you to create loopback devices configured to automatically connect to speakers, microphones, or applications."

• Jonathan Bennett [100:41]: "There is another use case for PW loopback when you need to take edited audio and use it as an input device."

9. Command Line Tips: More Utils

Key Discussion Points:

• Introduction to More Utils: Rob Campbell explores the More Utils package, specifically focusing on the chronic command, which runs programs silently in the background unless an error occurs.

• Practical Usage: The panel discusses scenarios where chronic can be beneficial, such as automating tasks without cluttering the terminal with unnecessary output, while still being alerted to issues.

• Additional Tools: Ken Starks introduces pw-loopback, expanding on advanced audio management, while Jeff presents the wall command for messaging all users on a system, useful for administrative notifications.

Notable Quotes:

• Rob Campbell [91:35]: "Chronic runs a program in the background, completely silent unless there is an error."

• Jeff [102:18]: "wall is used to display a message or the contents of a file on the terminals of all currently logged-in users."

10. Conclusion

The episode wraps up with the hosts sharing personal insights and teasing upcoming topics, including further command-line tools and potential deep dives into applications like the Fish shell. They encourage listeners to engage with their content through various platforms and support channels.

Final Remarks:

• Jonathan Bennett [108:25]: "Thank you guys for being here. If folks want to follow me, there is of course Hackaday... We appreciate everybody being here, those that get us live and on the download and hey, we will see you next week on the Untitled Linux Show."

Key Takeaways

• Rust’s Integration into the Linux Kernel: Continues to be a contentious issue with both support for safety and performance and resistance from some maintainers.

• GPL Licensing Challenges: Legal battles like the PureThink vs. Neo4j case could have widespread implications for open-source licensing enforcement.

• Mozilla’s Privacy Policy Shifts: Changes in Mozilla’s data handling practices have stirred community concern over user data privacy.

• Advancements in GPU Technology: AMD’s push with ROCM aims to challenge Nvidia’s CUDA dominance, especially in scientific and AI compute workloads.

• Legacy Software Modernization: Open-sourcing classic games like Command and Conquer opens opportunities for community-driven enhancements and Linux compatibility.

• Enhanced Audio Management with Pipewire: Tools like PW loopback empower users with advanced audio routing capabilities directly from the command line.

• Command-Line Efficiency: Utilities such as chronic and wall streamline background task management and user communication within Linux environments.

This episode of the Untitled Linux Show offers a comprehensive look into critical developments within the Linux and open-source ecosystems, blending technical discussions with community-focused topics. Whether you're a developer, system administrator, or tech enthusiast, the insights shared provide valuable perspectives on the evolving landscape of technology.