Untitled Linux Show 218: "We Want to Be Evil"

Date: August 31, 2025
Host: Jonathan
Panelists: Rob, Jeff, Ken

Overview

In this lively episode of the Untitled Linux Show, Jonathan, Rob, Jeff, and Ken cover the week’s big developments in Linux, open source, and related technologies. Major topics include a flurry of AI developments in Linux projects, Microsoft’s DocumentDB joining the Linux Foundation, new Linux distributions for retro hardware, major updates to open source tools like OBS and OpenSUSE, file system and kernel drama, a review of the Python documentary, and a heated discussion about Android locking down sideloading. The group’s banter keeps the conversation energetic, with plenty of insights and subplots throughout.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. AI in Open Source: LFN's Esdom and Kernel Patching

• LFN’s Esdom 1.0: The Linux Foundation Networking group released Esdom, a platform for integrating AI into networking environments, aiming to accelerate AI data models and applications in open networking.
  • Features: Secure data connectivity, model management, multi-platform deployment, adapters, and remote executors. (03:00–06:45)
  • Skepticism: Jonathan calls out the hype, noting it’s hard to find substantial code ("This sort of sounds like vaporware to me." – Jonathan, 06:45).
• AI for Kernel Backporting: Sasha Levin (Linux LTS co-maintainer/Nvidia) pushes for AI to help automate patch backports. The panel notes this isn’t new but welcome—important for distinguishing AI-generated content:
  • Quote: “When the AI sends this email, it starts with 'LLM generated explanation. Maybe completely bogus.'”—Jonathan, 09:48
  • Best practice: Transparency about AI-generated contributions is essential.

2. AI in Developer Tools: Zed, ACP, and IDEs

• Agent Client Protocol (ACP): Zed and Google are introducing ACP, a protocol to connect AI agents to any IDE, reducing lock-in to VS Code.
  • Open ecosystem: Built atop JSON RPC, Model Context Protocol, and supports custom agents and editors (neovim, Zed, etc.).
  • Quote: "We believe the best tools come from openness. Just as the language server protocol opened up IDEs to specialized tools, ACP creates spaces for an ecosystem of agents tailored to every developer's workflow."—Zed CEO Nathan Sobo (12:00–13:45)

3. AI and Plugins in OBS Studio

• OBS Studio 32 Beta: The new beta features voice activation detection (VAD), improved plugin management, better chapter markers, and UI foundation improvements. (16:20–21:00)
  • Anticipation of AI plugins: The new plugin system is seen as a possible AI on-ramp (“If they're making plugins more robust, you know the AI is going to be in there sometime.” —Rob, 20:38)
  • Warning: Beta stage means caution for production use.

4. Microsoft DocumentDB Joins the Linux Foundation

• DocumentDB: Now open source (MIT license), positioned as a NoSQL DB with Postgres compatibility, aiming to offer both transparency and reduced vendor lock-in.
  • Clarification: The “NoSQL” label can mislead—DocumentDB supports SQL queries ("NoSQL actually stands for 'not only SQL.' Terrible name..." —Jonathan, 28:36).
  • Governance: Linux Foundation serves as a neutral, fiscally responsible steward but not a traditional non-profit. (30:28–32:03)

5. OpenSUSE’s New Agama Installer & SELinux Default

• Installer overhaul: Agama 17 brings usability improvements, RAID/pure-disk installs, RMT registration, and SELinux as default LSM for SUSE Linux Enterprise 16 / OpenSUSE Leap 16.
• Customizability: Focus on making default installs easy while retaining full power for advanced users. (32:39–36:56)
• Wish-list: Saving installation profiles for automation—potential Ansible tie-in.

6. Kernel/File System Drama: ButterFS/BcacheFS, GNOME, and Developer Moves

• ButterFS (BTRFS) and BcacheFS:
  • ButterFS: Long-time maintainer Joseph Bacik leaves Meta for Anthropic, stepping away from kernel work. The project remains stable.
  • BcacheFS: Not included in the kernel mainline for now, moves to an out-of-tree module. Comparison to ZFS in terms of user difficulty.
• GNOME Leadership Turnover: Another executive director steps down after 4 months, adding to the project’s instability.
• Alyssa Rosenzweig leaves Asahi Linux (M1/M2 graphics) for Intel GPU work. (38:01–48:02)

7. Proliferation of Minimalist Linux INIT Systems

• Nitro: New lightweight, minimalist process supervisor/INIT system led by Leah Neukirchen (Void Linux developer), focusing on embedded, container, and resource-limited environments.
  • Contrasts with all-encompassing Systemd, but unlikely to replace it on mainstream distros any time soon due to tight integration (snaps, networking, etc.). (58:34–62:28)

8. Distros for Old Hardware: Q4OS & the Retro Angle

• Q4OS: Lightweight Debian-based distro supporting 32-bit x86, with Trinity Desktop as default; still usable on very minimal hardware.
  • Appreciated for revitalizing ancient laptops/desktops; example requirements: 350 MHz CPU, 256 MB RAM. (64:21–69:28)
  • Environmental sidebar: Is it greener to recycle or keep using old devices? (69:35–70:38)

9. The Python Documentary ("Python: The Movie")

• Review: 90-minute documentary charts Python’s journey from side project to the world's most popular programming language.
  • Origins, language philosophy ("There should be one way to do it and it should be obvious."), differences from Perl, and historical context (ABC language, Usenet releases).
  • Panel debate: Python’s indentation rules—enforcing programmer discipline or not so obvious?
    • “Requiring exact spacing for everything...is not completely obvious.”—Rob, 75:53
    • “I think forcing good programming structure [is good].”—Jeff, 76:26
  • Free on YouTube, link in the show notes. (71:11–78:37)

10. Android to Block Sideloading—Implications and User Backlash

• Major news: Starting in 2027, sideloaded APKs on official Google Android devices will require developer verification—effectively killing F-Droid and restricting user freedom.
  • Security is cited as a motivation, but panel sees it as a blow to user control and the open ecosystem.
  • Comparison to Apple and EU antitrust rulings; possible bright spot in non-Google/AOSP Android forks and the potential rise of true Linux phones.
  • Quote: “Dang it, it’s your phone. You should be able to run whatever software you want to on it.” —Jonathan, 80:23
  • Panel agrees: “We miss their old model: Do No Evil.” (81:36–85:38)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Esdom/AI hype:
  "This sort of sounds like vaporware to me. Maybe another spin on doing... MCP, that's it, isn't it?" —Jonathan (06:45)
• AI transparency in dev workflows:
  “When the AI sends this email, it starts with ‘LLM generated explanation. Maybe completely bogus.’” —Jonathan (09:48)
• Linux Foundation as fiscal host:
  "The Linux Foundation sort of works like a fiscal host... so it's no longer under the Microsoft Corporation, it is now under the Linux Foundation." —Jonathan (28:58)
• On NO-SQL confusion:
  "NoSQL actually stands for 'not only SQL.’ Terrible name." —Jonathan (28:36)
• On butterfs/bcachefs drama:
  “Is this a kiss of death for the file system? No... but it will be a higher barrier to entry for most users.”—Jonathan (49:45)
• Android sideloading policy:
  "Dang it, it's your phone. You should be able to run whatever software you want to on it." —Jonathan (80:23)
  "We miss their old model: Do no evil." —Rob (85:22)
• On Python’s philosophy:
  “Requiring exact spacing for everything to be exactly correct before it works is not completely obvious. Put it in brackets.”—Rob (75:53)
  “I think forces good programming structure.” —Jeff (76:26)
• Old hardware, new distros:
  "The last time I did a 486 install, it was just a place for me to upload some pictures from a vacation live." —Jonathan (69:11)
• On physical media:
  "I still buy CDs and DVDs because I actually own the thing. Not renting it from somebody." —Jonathan (110:44)
  "Vinyl has come back. We've seen a big resurgence of vinyl. I anticipate a few more years and you're going to see a resurgence [of] CDs and maybe not DVDs, but CDs and Blu Rays." —Jonathan (112:42)

Segment Timestamps

• AI in Networking, Kernel Patching: 02:01–10:34
• AI in Developer Tools (Zed, ACP): 10:44–14:28
• OBS Studio Beta & Plugins: 15:05–21:29
• Microsoft DocumentDB & Linux Foundation: 23:45–32:39
• OpenSUSE Agama Installer: 32:39–37:06
• Kernel Drama – Butterfs, Bcachefs, GNOME, Developer Moves: 37:31–56:18
• Minimalist INIT Systems (Nitro): 56:28–62:28
• Q4OS for Old Laptops: 64:21–70:13
• Python Documentary & Language Philosophy: 71:11–78:37
• Android Sideloading Lockdown: 78:50–85:42

Command Line Tips Segment

• Systemd Service Auto-Restart (Rob): 86:24–91:42
• WirePlumber Inspect (Ken): 91:59–97:55
• Aptitude & Python Tenets (Jeff): 98:01–101:16
• Converting MBR to GPT (Jonathan): 101:10–108:11

Closing & Fun Diversions

• In Defense of DVDs/CDs: The panel amusingly debates tangible media vs. streaming. (“I still buy CDs and DVDs because I actually own the thing. Not renting it from somebody.” –Jonathan, 110:44)
• How to Find the Panel: Rob plugs robertpcampbell.com; Jeff prefers you find him through Rob; Ken recommends an article advocating for a return to physical media.
• Club TWiT Promo: Join for bonus content and ad-free episodes. (116:49)

Summary

This episode is a microcosm of the Linux/open source world: rapid development, shifting alliances, passionate philosophical debates (from AI ethics to indentation style), technical deep-dives, and steadfast defense of user freedom. Whether you’re nostalgic for old hardware or fired up about Android’s direction, you’re sure to find both insight and laughter in this episode.

Listen for:

• Strong, balanced takes on AI (both hype and substance)
• Clarity on DocumentDB, NoSQL, and the nuances of open governance
• Kernel drama explained for real users
• Reflections on open hardware, retro computing, and why physical media may matter again
• The ongoing battle for user freedom in mobile Linux

Recommended for:
Linux power users, open-source enthusiasts, retro hardware hackers, AI-in-tech skeptics, and anyone invested in the future of software freedom.