Always Be Testing Podcast – Episode #103

“Human in the Loop: Smarter AI Adoption with Nicole Leffer”

Host: Tye DeGrange
Guest: Nicole Leffer (AI Consultant)
Date: October 7, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Tye DeGrange sits down with AI consultant Nicole Leffer to unpack the realities of introducing AI into marketing teams—specifically, the importance of keeping “humans in the loop.” The conversation covers Nicole's early adoption of generative AI, common pitfalls and breakthroughs in AI integration, the evolving role of marketers, and what skills and mindsets futureproof teams. The episode is packed with practical examples, cautionary tales, and a celebration of the blend between creativity and technology.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Nicole’s Entry into AI and Early “Aha” Moments

• Nicole began experimenting with generative AI in 2021 as head of marketing at a B2B SaaS company.
• Initially, her evangelism met with indifference—until ChatGPT’s release in late 2022 made AI mainstream.
• Aha moments:
  • Dramatic increase in the quality of team writing, reducing back-and-forth editing.
  • Real-time creation of marketing collateral that once took days, now down to an hour.

  “We had a conversation. ... I threw it in the AI and I’m not kidding, ... an hour later we had live content that was exactly what he had asked me for.” – Nicole (03:55)

How Nicole Advises Clients on AI Integration

• Start with one versatile AI tool (usually ChatGPT, Gemini, Copilot, or occasionally Claude)—not a different tool for every pain point (05:56).
• Build processes that are tool-agnostic, focusing on transferable workflows and prompts so switching tools isn’t disruptive (08:58).

  “If you give somebody five different tools to use, they will use zero. If you give somebody one tool to use and they know that’s the first place they go, they will actually use it.” – Nicole (07:58)

• Legal, IT, and security requirements often dictate which tool is adopted, especially in larger enterprises. Firms using Microsoft often default to Copilot for security integration; Google-centric companies lean on Gemini (11:30).

What Nicole Teaches in AI Workshops

• No one learned about AI “formally,” so training often covers:
  • Understanding tool limitations (hallucinations, need for fact-checking)
  • “Human in the loop”—why it’s essential and how to reinforce it
  • Crafting effective prompts and understanding tool capabilities/limitations
  • Avoiding over-reliance and not automating critical tasks (14:00)
  • Customizing workflows to embed AI in ways that match a team’s pain points

  “People don’t understand they can’t just copy and paste and take whatever the AI says as gospel. You have to actually read it ... you gotta be the human in the loop.” – Nicole (13:55)

• Resistance remains on both extremes: the belief that AI is either inferior to humans or that it’s infallible and should replace humans (16:57).

  “There are plenty of times where the AI is going to do a better job than a human ... but, ... we are starting to have this misconception that the AI is always better, knows everything. ... And that is just as much a misconception.” – Nicole (16:57)

Misconceptions and Organizational Pitfalls

• Early misconception was that AI couldn’t be strategic; now it’s that AI can do everything reliably.
• Companies can’t eliminate internal bottlenecks just by adding AI; process design must evolve too.

  “You cannot AI out your own stupid bottlenecks ... If you have 25 people that an email has to pass through to get approved ... AI is not going to solve that for you.” – Nicole (22:37)

• Small, agile teams extract more value from AI (less bureaucracy = higher leverage).

Guidance for Marketers and Future Skillsets

• Most powerful breakthroughs happen when teams apply AI to their unique bottlenecks, not prescribed use cases (20:19).
• Nicole’s top skills for modern marketers:
  • Communication: Clearly articulating needs to both humans and AI.
  • Critical thinking: Evaluating and editing AI output.
  • Experimental mindset: “No one can prescribe how to make AI work for you.”
  • Continuous learning and creativity: The market will demand more creativity, not less.

  “The most creative I have ever, ever been is working with AI because it’s like, oh, I can literally bring whatever is in my mind into reality.” – Nicole (29:00)

Trends and What’s Next

• Nicole is most excited about people’s creative uses of AI as adoption deepens, not just technological advances (31:15).
• Explosion of content means creativity and human touch are more valuable than ever.

  “You have to stand out in this world where everybody can crank out content ... I think we’re going to start seeing a lot more creativity in marketing.” – Nicole (32:20)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the “human in the loop” essentials:

  “You really gotta be the human in the loop. And how do you force the human into the loop ... so that it’s not too easy to offload?” – Nicole (13:55)

• On process overhauls:

  “You cannot AI out your own stupid bottlenecks ... AI is not going to solve that for you.” – Nicole (22:37)

• On skills for marketers:

  “Being a strong communicator that is able to clearly convey ‘this is what’s in my head’ and ‘this is what I want’ is like the number one skill that you actually need to be able to get something good out of the AI.” – Nicole (27:06)

• On AI’s amplifying effect:

  “AI is an amplifier, it’s a supporting cast member. … The value of that humanness goes up in this environment from my perspective.” – Tye (32:39)

• On favorite creative (non-work) AI tool:

  “I love SUNO … it is an AI music generation tool. … I’ll have ChatGPT write me lyrics … and 30 seconds later, I have what sounds like a professionally recorded song.” – Nicole (36:08)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:53 – Nicole’s first “aha” moments with generative AI in marketing
• 05:56 – Why companies should start with a single AI tool
• 08:58 – Building workflows that are adaptable across tools
• 11:30 – AI tool selection in large enterprises (Copilot, Gemini, ChatGPT)
• 13:21 – Core training elements for marketers using AI
• 16:57 – Common misconceptions about AI in marketing
• 22:37 – Why process, not just technology, dictates efficiency gains
• 27:06 – Critical skills and mindsets for futureproofing marketing teams
• 31:15 – What excites Nicole about the next 12 months in AI
• 36:08 – Nicole’s favorite creative AI tool for fun: SUNO (AI music)

Personal & Fun Touches

• Nicole is an avid world traveler, especially loving Croatia and the Balkans (33:47).
• Favorite book for work-life clarity: Essentialism by Greg McKeown (34:31).
• Go-to fun AI tool: Suno for generating custom music tracks (36:08).

Connect with Nicole Leffer

• LinkedIn: Nicole Leffer
• Website: nicoleleffer.com

Nicole’s core message:
AI’s power is best unlocked through process redesign, human creativity, and a commitment to learning and experimentation—not by looking for a magic tool or shortcut. The winning formula is “human in the loop.”