A (2:53)

So there were some aha moments, both when I was using it on the in house side, and then there's been a whole lot of aha moments on the consulting side on the, like, early, early days. I think my biggest like, whoa moment. There were two. One was that the quality of the writing that I was getting, like, submitted to me from my team just instantaneously went through the roof. And so we had to do a lot less editing, a lot less revisions, a lot less back and forth feedback. Not just that. I mean, even now when you get something straight out of the AI, it's not done. You still need a human involved, but it just so dramatically cut down on that back and forth time that was going into getting something live. And I think when I saw how fast that happened, that it cut down on that time. That was a huge aha moment. And then we also had a situation that I essentially, I gotta be a little bit vague because it's, you know, one of those, you don't want to reveal too much, but I had somebody in the company come to me and say, like, hey, could we get marketing content about this? I need it for this specific purpose. And I went, I have an idea. Let me try doing this. Put like, we just sat down, we had a conversation. I was like, what do you need this content to cover? He told me, I took notes, I threw it in the AI and I'm not kidding, we were done with that conversation. And an hour later we had live content that was exactly what he had asked me for, to support in something really important that was going on in the company. And I think that was a real aha moment. Everybody was like, this is so good. And nobody could comprehend how we turned this idea into published live content the same day, you know, like within an hour.

B (4:45)

Amazing.

A (4:45)

And I think that was like. And it helped with the thing that we needed it for. So it was. That was a very huge aha moment. I am constantly having that with clients. I teach a lot of, like, skills how to understand the technology, how to communicate what it's capable of and help them with the strategies. But I think a lot of my aha moments with clients come from once they have the skills and the understanding of the technology and they're able to combine that with their own internal processes and workflows, the ideas that their teams bring out of it that completely, completely change their entire way of working. I constantly like, I, I don't think I go more than a week without going, wow, that's the coolest thing I've ever seen. And it's been like that for a few years at this point.

B (5:34)

So that's amazing. How do you integrate different tools and marketing into the marketing strategies for Obviously you're helping a range of types of businesses, but how are you integrating those tools? Maybe what types of businesses are like really clicking with what you're providing in that, in that sense, yeah.

A (5:56)

So I tend to recommend for most companies to choose a single tool at first, not to be like doing a huge range of tools. Actually, one of the biggest mistakes I see companies making is trying to find a different AI tool for every single thing that they do. I am very big on. Like, let's figure out with the combination of what your goals, what we want to accomplish with AI, your specific, most important pain points and needs are combined with what are you allowed to do within your company. Because then sometimes there's a disconnect between the goals and what they are even allowed to do from a legal standpoint and IT standpoint, security, whatever. Like different companies have different thresholds around those things. So we will identify what tool is going to be the biggest impact maker that they are allowed to use. Usually that comes down to being one of three tools that we end up going with. It will either be ChatGPT, Google Gemini or Microsoft Copilot. Occasionally it is also anthropic Claude. But the reason that we tend to start with one of those tools is those tools can do all different types of things. They are not pigeonholing you into one use case. They are really adaptable to almost anything that you would want to do with AI with. I mean, there are obviously a few exceptions, but we will adapt that. They're building the skills, the understanding how to use that tool that we have chosen on their team, those fundamentals and starting to bring that tool's functionality into whatever they are doing. And only once people are very well versed in really adapting those workflows do we start going, okay, now what do you need that we need to supplement with external tools? But if you give somebody five different tools to use, they will use zero. If you give somebody one tool to use and they know that's the first place they go, they will actually use it. So you really, you know, if you think about it, even with one tool, these companies and these tools are adding features, they're adding functionality, and they're changing their interfaces every 30 seconds. And so it's a lot to keep up with with a single AI tool with how fast it's going and like knowing how to use it and take advantage of it if you, unless it is your full time job like it is for me to understand AI tools, yeah, it is impossible to have a huge arsenal of different tools to use and actually know what does it do and how the heck do you do it with that specific tool. If you're trying to do. You'll spend all day, every day just figuring out where did they move the button to or you're getting like half baked responses from every single thing.

B (8:40)

So when you advise, let's say someone lands on ChatGPT for example, is there how much of that is that one tool approaches because you're going to get more value from the reps and learnings ingested by the tool for the group or for the individual.

A (8:58)

To me that's like a very secondary consideration. I actually think you should be building out processes that could be interchangeable because we are super, super in the early days of this stu. So you want to be building out, not reliant on that tool. Even if you're building for that tool now, like your prompts and everything, you should have that all also separate so that if you needed to switch to Gemini, you needed to switch to Claude. You can do that in a heartbeat. So I don't want you to become reliable on building out the memory of ChatGPT. I actually personally don't even keep memory and ChatGPT turned on. So I, I think it's like which is when it actually is ingesting and learning from you. There are plenty of people that love it. I think that's a personal preference kind of thing. But I don't think you should be like locking yourself into a single tool for that purpose yet. It may be something that in the long term it is valuable, but I think it's more important like can the tool connect to your external data the way that your company is comfortable and okay with. But these tools are evolving so fast and also internal policies are evolving so fast. So like I have clients that we brought them in when we onboarded them when we're doing this. ChatGPT was the great perfect option for them. And now and you know they're big companies and this is like for the marketing team and they're like yes, you know, and IT and security and stuff signed off and now IT and security are like, you know what? We've decided company wide we're changing to this tool but because we didn't build their processes around what is ChatGPT remembering about us long term? It's more built around like how have we got great processes and great workflows and great prompts that work. GPTs that work really well when they switch to their new tool, they're going to be able to bring everything with them and seamlessly. We just need to teach to people like okay, in ChatGPT where they called it a GPT, in your new tool it's going to be called this. But like this is where the button is, but you're just teaching them this is where the button is. You're not having to fully onboard a new employee. Like the AI itself.

B (11:17)

Is Google, Google, Gemini or Copilot maybe a little bit more applicable or appropriate for like a more enterprise. Is that directionally what you've learned a little bit or is that not always the case?

A (11:30)

I wouldn't say it's necessarily more applicable like as far as like the functionality and features and stuff. What I do see is you kind of have one of a few things like there's the companies that are like, they look at the ChatGPT stuff and they're like this is totally great. And like plenty of enterprises are like this is great. It has the security, it is what we need. I find that a lot of larger enterprises are very stuck on the security elements of copilot. And so it's not that it's more functional in what it does, it's just that their, IT, their security people are more comfortable with Microsoft. The fact that it's integrated in their entire ecosystem and some of this security stuff that is built in. So I do see the companies that like they are, it's just non negotiable. We use Microsoft. Right? Like that is.

B (12:22)

Yeah, totally.

A (12:24)

And then you do similar with Google I think because a lot of times the companies on Google aren't necessarily as big of companies. They sometimes have a little more flexibility. But on the same token, like I mean if you have access to, if you use Google, you should be using Gemini. Like not necessarily, that's the one exception I would say like even if you're doing like we're onboarding you and chatgpt, you should also, if you're paying your company basically has access to it anyway, you might as well know how to use it and have it.

B (12:57)

Yeah, we're having, we're having a lot of success there because we're utilizing so much of their, their product suite. So when you come in and you're kind of Saying, hey, let's use one tool. I love that logic. You're more likely to use it. What are some of the other kind of things that, that these teams are kind of signing up for in terms of, of making sense of this stuff? And in those workshops, I'd love to learn a little bit more about that and share that with folks.

A (13:21)

Yeah. So, you know, none of us went to school. I mean, with the exception maybe if you've graduated in the last like six months, very few people learned anything about AI. Right. Like any, any kind of a formal way. So there is a lot that, yes, you can kind of learn through trial and error, but at this point, there's a lot we know that you don't have to go through that trial and error the same way somebody like me did, because there was a, like, literally we didn't know anything about this stuff when I started using it. So we're starting with everything. I mean, obviously depends on the company, but everything from things like you need to understand the tools can make things up and you have to fact check everything and hallucinations and some of the pitfalls of working with this technology, how important the human is in the loop, what your role is in the editing process, the fact checking, all of those things. Um, and honestly, like, I think this is going to. I thought it would kind of go the direction of people started understanding this stuff and they were like, that was a less important part of the training. But what I'm actually finding is I'm having a lot, a lot of marketing leaders coming to me going, we're having an issue with cognitive offloading. People don't understand that they can't just copy and paste and take whatever the AI says as gospel. Like you have to actually read it. So that's become a little bit more of my training, actually. Not the opposite, but that, like, really you got to be the human in the loop. And how do you force the human into the loop is part of it. Like some of the psychological stuff you have to do to force the human into the loop so that it's not too easy to offload. So that's one of the components, how to communicate with your tool, how to effectively, like, what needs to go into a prompt? What can you. What do you need to explain to it to get what you want out of it? What is it even capable of doing and what is it not? Where are we really with the technology? And also what are the things you shouldn't be doing? Because even if it could, you shouldn't. There are Definitely those things, especially with some of this agentic technology that's in some of these tools.

B (15:31)

Relationship maybe relationship advice is not what you want to ask.

A (15:35)

Maybe not. I mean it's like just because you can tell ChatGPT to go into your HubSpot and like make changes in your HubSpot with the agent functionality, like maybe we shouldn't be giving it access to actually take actions in other software on our behalf. Like there's certain things like let's maybe back off a little bit on that and then the last piece, like what are the features, what are the functionality? Like best practices on the workflows. And then we'll get into how do you actually apply this to your specific marketing workflows already. Like the end the goals and to reach the goals that your company has. That tends to be my overarching. Like when I'm doing a training kind of what we walk through and it depends, I mean obviously I'm meeting every company where they are. If they're not having the issues around people cognitively offloading, then we don't necessarily spend the time on that where, you know, everybody's at a different place on that stuff.

B (16:32)

It's kind of a cool segue. You know, we talked a little bit about like misconceptions with AI and things that people get wrong. And you talked, you had a great point earlier about the structure of a prompt and then also like even just knowing when to utilize and when not. What are some of those misconceptions that you've seen and kind of helped people break through? And those two things jumped out at me because you shared them earlier just as a thought.

A (16:57)

Yeah. So for a really long time I think there was a lot of misconception that like you can't use AI for anything strategic or like higher level thinking. I would say I feel like since GPT5 came out in ChatGPT, which if you've not used, if you're not a ChatGPT user, if you've never used GPT5, GPT5 auto in the main setting that the average person is using on there, it can auto decide if it needs to think through things and reason. Now that ability has been in AI for a while, but the average person, the average user had no idea that they could change the model in ChatGPT to do reasoning, to do thinking, to do, do logic. And so for most people this GPT5 has been their first experience with AI reasoning and AI thinking. And so I think the, the idea that AI can't think and do strategic work has like maybe not like it used to be like a huge misconception. I think now we're seeing this flip is that oh, the AI reasons through it. It's absolutely right. And that is just as much a misconception. So. And I think we're moving to a place where the biggest misconceptions that I'm seeing are one that it's never going to give you a good response. Right. Like it's never good enough. It's never as good as a human. It's like always dumber. Human superior. I always call it like a human superiority complex. On the one side we have the people who see it that way and that is a misconception because there are plenty of times where the AI is going to do a better job than a human. It just is where the tech is. But or like more most likely it's the like working together that's going to give you the best job. Like far better than either on their own. But on the flip side, we are starting to have this misconception that the AI is always better knows everything. If the AI says it, it is true and it's kind of missing the understanding that there's lots of different ways that this could go wrong. Now a lot of times that's your own fault from prompting like you've prompted. But a lot of times it's just the technology is not like some flawless, magical, perfect technology. And so this misception that like if the AI said it, it is true is becoming a big. And then I would also just say the misconception that you like the AI can just do things without you. Right. Like it's just like magically like I mean technically you could automate yourself out of the process, but it's a really bad idea. Like it's not gonna. Because the AI is not always doing it correctly and perfectly. But this just misconception that you could just automate everything and the AI just couldn't magically do this perfect job. It's definitely more dealing with right now.

B (19:51)

That's amazing. As a marketer obviously you've seen a lot your in house experience certainly now with consulting. What are you seeing in terms of like the marketers kind of clicking with AI? Where are you seeing the. The workshop in coaching and consulting kind of really resonate and kind of just make sense for marketers where they're trying to navigate when to use it, how to use it, when not to love to hear your perspective as it relates to like marketers and their outputs.

A (20:19)

So I Think that as soon as they realize that if I take this understanding of like the communication and what the tool is functional with and I apply it to my own pain points, my own workflows, not something somebody else has prescribed, Right. Like it's not about like the best use cases that people are building out, like workflows and structures for. It's for something that is uniquely theirs. And when they realize that it's not about the pre prescribed, how does somebody over here do it? Right? Like, how does Tai use AI? But it's about what in my workflow is bottlenecking? Like, what in my workflow is just slowing me down or painful psychologically or just for whatever reason I need help with it and they realize how to marry. I understand how to talk to the tool and what it's capable of and I understand my own needs and I can put those two things together and come up with my own AI solution for that. I think that's where the light bulbs really start going off for both individual marketers and team. Because as soon as that understanding happens, it's like, oh my gosh, we can completely change how we operate and it starts to make a really dramatic difference. But I can't talk to you. I mean, I can talk to you. And hours and hours and hours of learning about your workflows and like understanding your own pain points, needs, processes, all of these types of.

B (21:53)

Mm.

A (21:54)

I can help you ID those places. I can probably help you ID a few quickly and then like the really impactful stuff. It's gonna take serious digging. But you going, oh my gosh, I just absolutely hate that after, like I have to do this thing after this thing or whatever. And figuring out that you could just write a prompt to have the AI do it or a GPT that does it.

B (22:15)

Yeah.

A (22:16)

And it's just like, oh, that sets off the light bulb.

B (22:20)

Yeah. Have you, I love that. Have you experienced some interesting realization just around like unblocks of like, okay, we were able to save this amount of time or we were able to generate this additional revenue. Like, have there been some interesting outcomes that you've kind of been like, wow, that was awesome.

A (22:37)

Constantly. And I gotta be careful saying on a podcast because I have NDAs and stuff, so I gotta be careful that I don't say any like super specific client ones. But what I will say, actually I'm going to flip it from the, like, that was interesting to like the biggest that I think I have had and that a lot of the companies I work with eventually get to. I Mean, I tell them early and they don't get it. And then later they're like, oh, I get it. You cannot AI out your own stupid bottlenecks, right? And I say, I. Sorry to use the word stupid, but a lot of times they are right. So if you have 25 people that an email has to pass through to get approved, or, you know, you've got these processes that's going from this person to this person to this person to this person, and it's like getting stuck in bureaucratic approval nightmare. AI is not going to solve that for you. You aren't going to get something to market quicker because you've brought AI into the process. If you're process does not change to allow AI to help you speed through that process. And I think that I've seen it so many times that I'm like, this is not an AI issue. You're asking me to solve your efficiency. You need too many humans sign up an agreement, adding their two cents. And so I think that's one of the biggest AHAs that I see a lot of companies have once they start understanding this technology. Like, you can't, you just, you have to rearrange. And I'm not saying by like getting rid of humans, but like rearranging what individual people's roles are so that you're not creating bottlenecks. Even if you have one person and their time with the product, use AI to do it. If you pass it around, you still have to keep passing it around.

B (24:30)

Kind of makes me think there's a, there could be an interesting concept for, for you and for the audience and for others around. Like, if you're trying to solve these core problems, you're almost like, yes, you might be using AI's basic functionality, but you're, you're really limited to how much AI you're going to be able to ingest into the org to make the org better, make the outputs of marketing better. If you can't even get by the following foundational things, then it's like, yeah, you can, you can use your chat GPT, you can occasionally go into Gemini and organize things or help you with ideation or, or refinement or brain, you know, But I, I think there's an interesting thought there. Do you feel like there's, is that something that's come up for you in the past?

A (25:14)

It definitely has. And like, I think it's also something that I very much see that in general a small company, like a small marketing team, gets far more substantial value out of AI. Than a large marketing team because they don't have those process bottlenecks. So like if you think of like a scrappy series A series B startup where each marketer is doing a lot of different things in their work, like you know, they don't have one person writes email. Subject line. Subject lines. Right. Like, you know, like that's not one person's entire job is to do some very narrow thing, but it's one person is doing email and landing pages and like they're doing like all kinds of different things. Those companies are in a situation where you can expedite your product processes so much and make that one person be able to do 5 people or 10 people's job with the AI and 5x or 10x their output at a high quality. Where if you have a company that you have so many people involved in the process, there's just only so much you can do because you're not giving one person that space, that authority to be able to come in and do multiple people's different jobs with that AI tool, allowing them to do it.

B (26:36)

Wow, that's amazing. You've obviously worked in a number of marketing teams, mentored marketers, had some great folks around you. What kind of skills, mindsets do you think you kind of want to see and you want to coach people and help people with that are kind of required right now with things. When you think about improving current teams, future proofing future teams and what's coming, love to get your perspective on. On that. From a coaching and team perspective.

A (27:06)

Yeah. So I think there's a few things, like if I was like from a coaching and team perspective, but also like I was hiring somebody and I want them to be able to excel with where we are going. The biggest things I am looking for are how are your communication skills? Like, are you a good communicator? Because being a strong communicator that is able to clearly convey this is what's in my head and this is what I want is like the number one skill that you actually need to be able to get something good out of the AI if you don't understand, I kind of liken it to have you ever had one of those managers that you have like no idea what they want from you, but they're never happy. That is the hardest person to work for is if they're like, go do this. They never communicate what they want out of this and then they're mad you didn't do it. And so many people don't have the skills to communicate what is the thing you want out of this. But that is a necessity if you want to get a good result from AI. So number one, I'm looking for people with critical, with good communication skills and then hand in hand with that critical thinking skills. You can't just use the technology and just blindly like accept whatever it gave and not think about it. So that's number two would be critical thinking. And then the next thing is like a mindset of experimentation, right? So this is not a technology that, yes, I am, somebody like me is out there and I can teach you the things about it. But the real power of this technology is you being the type of person to go, I understand how it works, I'm going to figure out how to make it work for me. And nobody can prescribe to you the answer to that. So the type of personality to go experiment, be a little bit creative, connect the dots between different ideas and apply them. That is such an incredible skill skill that experimentation, mindset and then the mindset of continuous learning. Right. And so like, I mean, I think this has always been very necessary in marketing, but I think now more so than ever just because you learned something, you're not going to learn this in an hour from a webinar two years ago and be done. Learning AI, it's not like learning how to check your email, right? Like this is something that you're, it is constantly evolving, constantly changing and you have to be adaptable to that continuous learning. So all of those things are the skills that I think we're like, we really need to foster in our teams more than anything to help them get to that next level to be able to apply this, this technology in marketing. Creativity is another really big one. I actually think a lot of people are like, oh, AI doesn't let you be creative. That's so untrue. The most creative I have ever, ever been is working with AI because it's like, oh, I can like literally bring whatever is in my mind into reality. And so like that creativity and ability to take creative ideas and turn them into something is huge. And I think it's going to take a lot more creativity to stand out in the market when we have AI.

B (30:23)

I like that. My sentiment has been similar in that as we adopt more AI and more tech becomes central. It's an amplifier, it's a supporting cast member. It can be used as a, as ideally in a lot of cases it's something that's going to help support you, not necessarily replace. Obviously there's examples where that, that, that isn't happening. But I just like the thought of you being more creative and being able to embrace it and use it for. For big things. It's just something that there's. There's just a lot there and I think you clearly are showing that. So it's fantastic. What are some trends that I guess, I guess for me, trend wise, I think there's a lot, lot coming. Right. And what are you most excited about in the next coming 12 months? Are there things that are really getting you excited about the space?

A (31:15)

I think I'm most excited. It's not so much about like the technology itself and what's coming. Like there is some cool stuff that is obviously coming out, but I think I'm the most excited. Excited about more and more people understanding the technology and seeing what they come up with to do with it. Because like, I think we have, we are in this space where really cool stuff is starting to happen because people have access to the technology and just seeing like that creativity and action of applying. Like now I have. I'm like a creative person and now I have this technology to bring that to life. And I'm just super excited to see what is this. We start seeing because of it. And people like companies starting to realize that to stand out you have to allow that creativity because if you just keep putting out the content that is kind of like we kind of got lazy with marketing. Can we be honest for a second? Like a lot of marketing got really lazy prior to AI coming out and they all sound the same and you don't know what they even do and.

B (32:18)

Like a lot of copying.

A (32:20)

Yeah. And I think that we're going to start seeing a lot more creativity in marketing because you have to stand out in this world where everybody can crank out content that's boring content really quickly. So I'm kind of more excited about that, to be honest, than actual like technical evolution right now.

B (32:39)

I love it. And I think like what I was trying to get at earlier and you kind of touched on it is this like the value of the human touch and the value of that creativity and the value of that spark of in persons and live human created content. Content. And I just think the value of that humanness goes up in this environment from my perspective.

A (32:58)

And it's not to say without the AI's involvement, but it's the creative, like the creativity of the human using the AI is totally.

B (33:08)

I love that. The combo. Speaking of the personal and the human coming down the home stretch, Nicole, you've shared some awesome insights with us. Today it's been great. Just kind of getting to know you on some final questions. What's something that people might not know about you?

A (33:21)

Ooh. Well, I am a very big world traveler, so I love going new places, having new experiences, seeing the world in a new way, getting a different perspective. I think that's just something that really is my happy place is going and having.

B (33:40)

Love that. Top destinations. Any vacations or spots that jumped out of you that you recommend or that you love to talk about?

A (33:47)

Obviously, like, very much depends on my mood and, you know, like, exactly what I'm liking to get out of a vacation. But I gotta say, like, Croatia holds a place at my heart. That's a place I find myself, I keep going back to. And there's not a lot of destinations that I like, continuously find myself going back to. I experience new places. So I'm a big fan of, like, Croatia and the Balkans in general.

B (34:14)

Wow. Very cool. What a great suggestion. On my list somewhere there and I've heard amazing things. So it's. It's fun to. To get that.

A (34:21)

Definitely. Don't talk too many people.

B (34:25)

No, no, it's just. Just. What's your go to. Go to book recommendation?

A (34:31)

Oh, I think the book Essentialism, if you like a good business read. Greg McCowan, probably mispronouncing his last name. Essentialism is a really, really great read for work, business, life. Kind of just making sure that what you're doing is actually what matters.

B (34:53)

Love that. I was literally just talking to the team about that today and sharing that, even for myself as a leader. I'm the old pebble analogy of the rocks, pebbles and sand, and you're trying to kind of balance it all. Like you cannot fit it all. Something's got to give. I'll have to check out Essentialism. I think that's a topic that came up today for us, too.

A (35:12)

I said, I guess we're on the same wavelength.

B (35:14)

Yeah, there you go. I love it. Is there a tool that's not AI related per se, or maybe not like a LLM per se that you're just obsessed with? It's B2B that you can't really live without, that you enjoy using, that you recommend to people?

A (35:29)

You know, that's a good. That's not an AI tool.

B (35:33)

It could be. It's like not. Not one of the ones we've mentioned. How's that?

A (35:36)

Okay, I'm going to answer that question, but I'm not going to say it's like B2B or you can't Live without. It's just one I love. It's like really fun. Yeah, Some people need it, some do not. But I love SUNO with S U N O. It is an AI music generation tool. So if you need to create music like, then that's like really cool. I have so much fun. My favorite thing to use sooner for it has nothing to do with work. I rarely use it.

B (36:05)

Way cooler than work stuff. Oh my gosh.

A (36:08)

I will a lot of times, like, I'll be on a road trip or driving somewhere like vacation and I need a theme song for whatever we're doing that day. And so I'll go in charge you and be like, okay, like I Asia driving from here to here and like doing this. And we're in like this kind of rental car. And this is the part of the day I'll be like, write me lyrics for a song. I'll have chatgpt write me lyrics. And for the song, I paste them into Suno in 30 seconds and then like tell it the genre I want it to be. And 30 seconds later, I have what sounds like a professionally recorded song on that top. It's so fun. It is just like it is my go to magic trick. Yeah, but do I use it for work? Like, never. But like, it is definitely my favorite fun tool.

B (36:58)

It's the funnest. It's one of the most amazing software suggestions. I've gotten some good ones on this show. But I love that there's plenty of.

A (37:07)

Marketing use cases for that. It's just for me personally, I see it as just a fun to play with tool. And you can be like really wildly creative too. You could be like, I want ancient Egyptian country music hybrid. And then like, see what it comes back with.

B (37:23)

I'm gonna go down a rabbit hole now. What a great call, Nicole. This has been amazing. Thank you so much for joining for sharing. That was a mic drop moment there with the best software suggestion I've had, I've had this year. And where can people find you if they want to learn more and connect?

A (37:42)

So best way to connect with me is on LinkedIn. My name, Nicole Leffer. If you send me an actual connection request, please tell me where you came from because I have a bazillion requests pending and every time I try to clear them out, LinkedIn thinks I'm a robot. Like every time I try to go through like in mass, LinkedIn sends me an alert like, you can't use robots on you're going too fast. And so please tell me where you came from.

B (38:06)

So I just accept you don't use robots, Nicole. Don't use robots?

A (38:10)

Yeah, don't. Don't use robots on LinkedIn. And then my website is nicoleleffer.com so all the information about my trainings, my course, like all of that stuff is available there.

B (38:21)

Awesome. Well done. Just a fun chat. So fun to chat with you and we'll talk to you soon. Thank you.

A (38:27)

Thank you so much.