Podcast
Always Be Testing
Hosted by Tye DeGrange · EN
Always Be Testing explores the experiments, insights, and growth stories shaping the future of affiliate and partner marketing in B2B SaaS. Hosted by industry veterans, the show dives deep into real-world lessons from the people driving measurable impact at companies like Google, HubSpot, Ramp, Webflow, G2, and beyond.
Each episode uncovers what happens when today's most innovative marketers challenge assumptions, run smarter experiments, and build programs that scale revenue through meaningful partnerships. If you’re in affiliate, partnerships, or SaaS growth — this is your front-row seat to how the best do it (and what they’ve learned along the way
66episodes
Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
Horse Lessons from Mom | Ginger DeGrange
1w ago00:39:01Summary readyFor Mother's Day, Tye DeGrange hands the mic to his mom — Ginger DeGrange. Rodeo queen. Horse trainer. Summer camp founder. 36-year instructor who's taught 10,000+ students the art of horsemanship at Santa Rosa Junior College. This one's full of great stories: the OJ Simpson trail ride, a student who went on to dine with the Queen of England, competing at the Grand National, and the old reinsman who taught Ginger that quiet confidence beats loud energy every time. Plus real lessons on building confidence, earning trust, and leading with feel — on and off the horse.
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#121 Zero Platform: 10 Great Partners Beat 100 — The Future of Local Marketing | Adam Dewer, Soci.ai
3w ago00:28:48Summary readyAdam Dewer leads partnerships at Soci.ai — an AI-powered platform helping 800+ multi-location brands manage their local presence across social, listings, and reviews.In this episode, Tye and Adam get into the "zero platform" future of local marketing, where AI agents replace dashboards entirely — handling updates, review responses, and social posts through a simple SMS conversation with the business owner. They also dig into Adam's approach to building and measuring partnerships (he tracks just two numbers: net new revenue and expansion revenue) and why he'd take 10 incredible partners over 100 mediocre ones any day.What you'll learn:• Why "automagically" is the most dangerous word in AI marketing• How to identify your AI strength areas before trying to scale• Why agency partners are Adam's #1 channel play right now• The early signals that tell you a partner is going to scale• How to tee up a partner for success without making it transactional• What the "zero platform" future looks like for a local business ownerConnect with Adam: linkedin.com/in/adamdewer | soci.ai
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SaaS Class EP 1: AEO is the New SEO — How HubSpot & Webflow Are Winning AI-First Discovery | Nancy Harnett & Guy Yalif
4w ago00:34:37Summary readyThe first episode of SaaS Class tackles one of the most pressing questions in B2B marketing: how do you win when your buyers are finding answers on ChatGPT and Perplexity instead of Google?Tye sits down with Nancy Harnett (Head of Affiliate & Offsite AEO at HubSpot) and Guy Yalif (Webflow, formerly CEO of Intellimize) to break down what's actually working in the race to become the most visible brand in AI search. Nancy reveals how HubSpot generated 200K+ AI citations in 6 months and became the #1 most visible CRM across AI search. Guy shares how Webflow appears in 67% of the AI answers they care about — more than any other CMS including WordPress.What you'll learn:Why AEO is a natural evolution of great SEO, not a replacementThe 4 pillars of AEO: Content, Technical, Authority & MeasurementWhy affiliate marketing is now the "new backlinks" — driving top and bottom-funnel AI impactHow HubSpot used Reddit to go from ~100 to 146K AI citations in 7 monthsContent depth and localization: what actually moves the needleHow to build a closed-loop measurement system to iterate fast
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90% of Media Buying Workflows Are Still Manual—Here’s What’s Broken | Lacie Thompson
Mar 2400:30:14Summary readyIn this episode of Always Be Testing, host Tye DeGrange sits down with Lacie Thompson, an experienced agency leader, affiliate and partner marketing expert, and former operator at brands like Expedia and Blue Nile. After successfully scaling and exiting her agency, Lacie is now building Media Pack—an AI-powered platform designed to modernize and streamline how brands buy media.The conversation explores Lacie’s journey across brand-side, agency, and startup environments, highlighting how real-world frustrations led her to build solutions rooted in efficiency and transparency. From the broken workflows of flat-fee media buying to the lack of standardization across the industry, she unpacks the core problems that still slow teams down—and how AI is now making it possible to rethink the entire system.Beyond product and tech, the episode dives into the mindset behind building and scaling—from making decisions beyond data, to taking risks before feeling “ready,” to focusing on what truly creates differentiation. It’s a grounded and insightful look at what it takes to build in today’s AI-driven landscape while staying anchored in real customer needs.
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#119 Why 70% of Affiliate Programs Fail Before They Launch — and How AI Can Fix That | Kyle White
Mar 1000:32:39Summary readyKyle White is the CEO & Founder of Refinery, an AI-powered affiliate technology solution. He brings a rare blend of experience across affiliate management (Overstock, Uber), product development, and data-driven experimentation. He previously built tools at Impact, led global affiliate/ambassador programs at Uber, and now focuses on making affiliate programs smarter, more automated, and more profitable using AI.In this conversation, Kyle breaks down how AI is transforming affiliate marketing, how brands can adopt product‑led growth principles, and why relevancy—not payouts—is the strongest signal in partner matchmaking. He shares lessons from scaling Uber’s Ambassador Program from a 7% to an 80% activation rate, what most brands get wrong about affiliate recruitment, and how to design tests that actually produce meaningful insights.The episode also covers trends shaping the future: the threat of AI search bypassing the affiliate channel, the rise of pay‑per‑performance TV & audio partners, and why the next era will require filtering through more noise to find true value. Kyle also shares personal stories—building a company with a newborn, being featured in South Park, speaking Russian from missionary service in the Baltics, and his love of film photography.
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#118 Why Most Marketing Teams Miss 95% of Real Buyers | Doug Bell
Mar 300:41:39Summary readyIn this episode, I sit down with Doug Bell — Fractional CMO, former leader at Automation Anywhere, LeanData, and Searchmetrics, top‑40 Substack writer, and co-host of Cannonball GTM — to unpack why modern go‑to‑market playbooks are breaking… and what the next generation of GTM looks like in an AI‑driven world.We go deep into the new patterns shaping high‑growth companies — and the uncomfortable truths most teams don’t want to face.
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#117 3 Structural Shifts Are Breaking Traditional SEO | Jordan Koene
Feb 2400:38:35Summary readyThis episode explores the future of search and digital discoverability with an experienced SEO executive and growth advisor who has worked with high-growth marketplaces and SaaS companies. The conversation unpacks how the mechanics of online discovery are being reshaped by AI, shifting user behavior, and the declining reliability of traditional traffic channels. Together, we examine why visibility is no longer just a marketing function but a product and experience challenge — where trust, intent, and usefulness determine whether users discover and choose a product. The discussion also covers how teams should rethink SEO from a tactical ranking exercise into a strategic growth capability, what durable acquisition looks like today, and how organizations can adapt their playbooks to stay relevant as search continues to evolve.
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#116 Scaling from $175M to $5B: Enterprise Affiliate Lessons from Fanatics | Wade Tonkin
Feb 1700:41:34Summary readyWade Tonkin is the Director of Global Affiliate Marketing at Fanatics, Inc., where he oversees one of the largest and most complex affiliate programs in the world. With over 20 years of experience in performance marketing, he has played a key role in shaping Fanatics’ global partner ecosystem, driving growth through content creators, media publishers, loyalty partners, and innovative performance channels.This episode dives deep into the evolution of affiliate marketing at massive scale. The conversation spans growth levers beyond the traditional affiliate playbook—ranging from content partnerships, media integrations, sports‑driven real‑time demand, coupon ecosystem shifts, loyalty dynamics, influencer performance trends, incrementality measurement, BNPL behavioral changes, AI’s emerging role in affiliate operations, transparency challenges with subnetworks, and experiments in compensation modeling. It also includes personal touches: international travel, hiking adventures, and the guest’s surprising hobby as a certified bourbon steward.
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#115 The Measurement Mistakes Costing Brands Millions | Cormac Jonas
Feb 1000:37:19Summary readyIn this episode of Always Be Testing, host Tye DeGrange is joined by Cormac Jonas, CEO and Founder of The Jonas Agency, for a deep dive into what’s actually broken in modern performance marketing. With years of experience across affiliate, paid media, and creator-led growth, Cormac brings a sharp perspective on why so many brands are optimizing campaigns while ignoring the bigger problem: flawed measurement.The conversation unpacks how misattribution, last-click bias, and platform incentives distort ROI, using the recent Honey browser extension controversy as a real-world example of how value gets misassigned across channels. They explore why TikTok and YouTube reshaped high-intent demand, how AI, CTV, and programmatic traffic are inflating “performance” metrics, and why owning an audience now matters more than owning traffic. This episode is a candid look at where affiliate and performance marketing are heading — and what brands need to fix before scaling spend.
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#114 Why Most Growth Teams Fail Before They Start | Guillaume Cabane
Feb 300:43:11Summary readyIn this episode of Always Be Testing, host Tye DeGrange sits down with Guillaume Cabane, Founder of HyperGrowth Partners and one of the earliest leaders to shape modern B2B SaaS growth.Guillaume breaks down why most companies struggle to scale—not because they lack tools or talent, but because they’re unwilling to embrace the speed, risk, and failure real growth requires. The conversation unpacks what actually defines a growth team, why experimentation must move faster than polish, and how founders often sabotage growth by demanding results without accepting uncertainty.They also explore where AI is genuinely creating leverage in B2B today, why SDRs haven’t been fully replaced, and how trust, culture, and incentives shape whether growth teams succeed or stall.This episode is a practical, no-fluff look at what it really takes to build growth systems that scale in B2B SaaS.
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