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EPS 127: From IDF Cyber Ops to B2B Marketing: Building GTM from Scratch | Avishag Daniely
00:37:31
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Welcome to another episode of the Always Be Testing podcast. I am absolutely thrilled to welcome Abhishek Danieli. Avi, how are you?
- [00:16]
B
Hi, Ty. I'm great. How are you?
- [00:18]
A
I'm doing well. We're here in Austin, Texas. You're in Boston area, is that right?
- [00:24]
B
Yeah.
- [00:25]
A
Yep. Look at us. Austin and Boston. Love rhymes. Avi is an amazing wealth of knowledge. She's got deep technical foundation in cyber security. She's led cyber operations for the idf. She's been a security analyst. So there's a lot of good things to talk about here at the intersection of cyber marketing technology. So I think you're in for a treat. Thanks for joining us, Avi.
- [00:52]
B
Thank you for having me on. Happy to be here.
- [00:55]
A
Absolutely. So currently leading marketing at One Layer. Right.
- [01:00]
B
So marketing and alliances. I run both our strategic partnerships and marketing functions.
- [01:04]
A
Amazing. Amazing. Obviously, marketing and partnerships are something very near and dear to me and our team. And you've built, you know, all sorts of things in terms of systems, teammates. There's a lot to cover. So I think we've got some good things to talk about. Sometimes I like to do jumping right into the nitty gritty and then kind of doing the personal and getting to know you at the end. But we kind of talked about it and said, let's do it at the beginning. So give the audience a little something about yourself and your background and maybe some things that people don't know about you.
- [01:35]
B
So today, as you mentioned, I'm heavily into cybersecurity. I've probably been doing that for about 15 years. But something that people don't know is that probably in a parallel universe, I would have been an artist about 15 years ago. Actually had my work in some museums across the world. So it was feels like a different lifetime back then, but probably find them somewhere.
- [01:57]
A
Wow. Oh, my gosh. Now I absolutely want to look that up and see that's what I would not expect from someone in your field.
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B
Yeah, it's not something that I usually talk about, but definitely something that's maybe that thing that I go back to when I retire. Who knows?
- [02:14]
A
I love that. I love that. I think we all have those things and I think it's a cool reminder, like everyone's. So it can be so multifaceted and nuanced. And I think it's a great reminder. I'm probably going to ask you more about that at some point. Jumping into our discussion at hand as well. There's a lot of talk in marketing and in partnerships around kind of the Shift in the journey, maybe beyond. Like a typical funnel for your world where you're dealing with a very unique buyer Persona, very unique trust journey. How do you kind of think about your buyer journey, maybe differently. And in the context of marketing and partnership, how do you address it versus maybe more typical funnel?
- [02:56]
B
My take about the traditional funnel, the awareness consideration that it's very, I'd say enterprise centric from, from the vendor perspective, right? It's what the funnel looks like for us. But if we step into the perspective of the buyer, then they have their own journey of purchasing, which might or might not map to our traditional marketing funnel, right? So when we look at private cellular, for example, when you break down the buyer journey not related to cybersecurity or one layer, the buyer journey of cellular networks, you can break it down into the different steps that your customer, that our potential customer is walking through. So it would be first you need to purchase spectrum or have some form of spectrum license so that you can even start setting up your network. Then it leads into infrastructure. They'll need to look for a vendor to sell them the infrastructure for the network. They can rent it, they can buy their own cellular core. There's a whole, your own ran your own antennas, so there's a whole infrastructure layer there. And then if you follow that, then that's when they start adding different layers on top of it, right? So they've got spectrum, they've got their infrastructure, and now they need to start adding devices, right? So there's a whole device purchasing layer. SIM cards. You need to purchase SIM cards because it's cellular. All these different steps in a journey to set up the network are the key customer journey that we look at. And when I advocate for a buyer journey or a customer journey versus a traditional funnel, I mean, we need to map our funnel to that buyer journey if we really want to intercept a deal, let's say as early as possible. Because the more if we're thinking brand awareness, if you're thinking how do you make yourself the go to product, you want the customer to be aware of you from that very, very first, early stage of looking at spectrum, right? So that when they're already maybe buying infrastructure, which is the second stake, that's when they're already getting you built into that solution to that end to end architecture of a network. So the funnel, the traditional marketing funnel, helps us understand where our buyers are in our internal journey. But they're not necessarily the right tool when you want to incept yourself into the customer journey. So that's Kind of my.
- [05:08]
A
Yeah, that's amazing. I think it's such a great reminder and call out. It's like I don't think enough people are, they need that reminder sometimes to kind of think about the shoes of the customer and less about the perspective of the vendor. And I think it sounds obvious, but I think it's something that's a really great call out to make sure you're considering.
- [05:30]
B
Yeah. And I think one of the major things that I find very beneficial is once you're able to articulate to yourself what's the relevant buyer journey that you want to incept yourself into at that phase, you can also start mapping the different functions of your company that can influence that specific step. If it's partnerships, if it's content that you need created, if it's targeting, if it's customer advocacy, there are all these different tools within your marketing toolbox that you can then go and influence within these different steps. So that's kind of the way that I recommend approaching this.
- [06:05]
A
Yeah. And do you have, maybe this is a bit of an off script question, doubling down on the ICP thing that we love. Is there, is there maybe some suggestions for people or maybe a little peek behind the curtain of like how, how you're getting the best data on ICPs and Personas and how often you're updating them?
- [06:27]
B
I'd say this, it really depends on your data sources, but I'll be centric to what we are, what I would recommend doing and what like my experience has brought to the table. So first of all, you need to work with the right partners, right. As to get that information. You want to know who they are working with so that you can then help intercept or help influence or even build a joint motion towards them. Right. Not all partners will be your pipeline partners, but a lot of your partners can be your influence partners to eventually lead to pipeline. So you need to be very strategic in mapping that. So that's one area of data that you can use. The other area of data is to look for. I'd say you can use public knowledge. Right. So if somebody is buying Spectrum, it will be listed in a public database. You need access to that. You want to be looking at that if somebody is thinking through their process of hiring, right. Somebody to manage that network. That's another nice indicator that you can use to understand where your customer is. So you can look at public information, public data to get that information. But you also need to leverage the tools beyond what you can do yourself, like partners. And of course, last but not least you can look at the classic inbound, let's say whoever visits your website, those that will look at your information, those that will attend your events or events that you go to and go by your booth and have those conversations. So all those can be different areas of data points that can help you build, let's say or map the different potential customers or ICPs to their, to that specific funnel journey, buyer journey. But I say more so than everything as a startup, right, that needs to grow. You have to have those hands on conversations with as many customers as possible to be able to really gauge where things stand. So it's about getting in front of your potential customers as much as possible and then assisting through who is in the right ripeness to move towards more of a buying phase.
- [08:27]
A
Yeah, this on my SaaS class variant of the POD we do monthly. This came up specifically around a takeaway of like thinking about tools like Gong and LLM, combining and thinking through, synthesizing your actual customer conversations, your actual customer questions and pain points and then really learning and developing plans from those. I actually brought it up in my talk last week at IPX Impacts annual partner event here actually in Austin. And it was something that our team historically has done a lot of as well, of like really not shying away from those sales people that have such great rich knowledge, talking to customers live and going through their issues and challenges. So I love that call out that you referenced too.
- [09:19]
B
Yeah, definitely. You've got to tune in to as many customer conversations as possible. There's no better data than what the customer is saying or those closest to them are.
- [09:29]
A
Yeah, that's fantastic. We talked a little bit about how do you think about de risking the decision. You know, it's obviously a large one, it's obviously multifaceted. There's a lot of players involved. When the enterprises think about cellular spectrum as a topic, we've talked about this. They kind of have a buy rent or a piggyback option. Can you educate us a little bit around how that works for the buyer and how you derisk that decision?
- [09:58]
B
So what we first of all what we do at one layer is we focus on the cybersecurity space or securing the actual assets connected to a private cell. But what we are doing is we are building the go to product, the de facto product for anyone building their own private cellular network. We are that specific solution that can help them operationally manage that network, be able to secure those devices connected and make sure that they are making those decisions as early as possible within Their buyer journey of a network not related to cybersecurity. Because when you build a network from scratch or when you start out in your journey in the very beginning and you build in these operational elements and security elements from the get go, then you're actually building a resilient operational technology network from the get go and adhering to any compliance or any regulations, internal or external, that you might need. So when our customers are looking at cellular spectrum, that's their, I'd say the first stage within the decision to. So are within the process of building their own private cellular network. And a private cellular network can be anything from I'm buying my own spectrum to then set up my own private core, my own private antennas. That's very utility oriented. Think of a grid, right? Of a utility grid. They would need their own infrastructure. They can't necessarily rely on public providers. They might augment with public providers, but still they, they need their own resilience, right? They have their own regulations, so they'd buy. But if it's a factory, for example, they might not need to buy their own spectrum. They can rent it. Rent as in buy a slight. Hospitals are very common to do that. They would, I say, buy a slice from a public provider like a Verizon and AT&T a T Mobile and, or, or anyone in Europe or, or Latin America for that matter, and actually rent the spectrum and maybe even. And then the antennas that come with it to provide that spectrum. But they might set up their own core or they might then what we call piggyback and use a public core provide provider as well with their own SIM cards. So there's a lot of different models and you can call it complete private. It's my own core, it's my own antennas, it's my own spectrum. It can be a hybrid model. I might have my private core, public antennas, and I'm using the Lehman terms here, right. It's not necessarily the. No problem. And then last but not least, there might be a complete. Let's say I'm piggybacking on a public provider network. I'm using their connection but my own SIM cards. So all of these are still considered a private network. If you own the device, it's yours to secure. If that device is the reason that you were eventually under risk or attacked or hacked, you still hold the accountability doesn't matter if the infrastructure is yours or not. So that's. Any one of these would be a private cellular network for that matter. And they're just different ways there. Now the reason A customer would choose one or the other, or the reason an enterprise would choose one or the other is related first and foremost to their own needs. So if we're thinking utilities, think large area networks, right? You need to cover a whole city, a whole state. In those cases you'd want. You'd need resilience, you'd need your ability. If there is a Verizon outage, you'd need your ability to still maintain connectivity to all those different devices connected to that network. So you build your own infrastructure. You might augment with public providers as well so that you have that backup. But a lot of them are choosing for the I'll own the whole infrastructure. We have seen enterprises still go for full public LED or a hybrid model in utility cases as well. But still, that's a very classic path of I will own the whole thing end to end. If you're thinking of manufacturers or hospitals or mines. Right. They could choose different models. Mines would usually still build their own antennas for coverage. If you think about it could be underground, could be a huge hole that needs to be covered. And then public providers may not provide the coverage. So there's a lot of different elements that you'll need to consider in this and they can be first, what kind of coverage do I need? Do the public providers give me that coverage? Yes or no? What eventually is my return on investment for this network? Building your own network, end to end has its cost. You need to weigh the price of renting the spectrum versus building your own for a 10 or 20 year project, because we're not talking about short term projects here. So all these are different elements that our customers consider when deciding which path to go down for their own private network. And they also do this, by the way, by consulting each other, either by forms that were built for their specific domain around this space, or by forms built by and by affiliates in this domain. But they still do have that, those conversations to learn from each other.
- [14:49]
A
Yeah, I love that. It's so. There's so many interesting nuances to this. Are there? I'm curious, like at a basic level, what's that threshold of like size and complexity for a business that's. And an entity that's like willing and able to do this, someone who doesn't know this world and is, you know, not familiar with it. Right. So what's the smallest type of entity that would be able to even consider this? I know it's enterprise, but it could
- [15:19]
B
be as small as a factory with key 50. With 50 key devices. Right. Because if you're thinking fully automated factory floor, right? And they would need think manufacturing 4.0. No humans on the floor, right? No person to manage anything on the floor. Everything needs to be fully automated and everything needs to run smoothly with maybe somebody in headquarters clicking a couple of buttons here and there. Right? That's, that's the mindset of, of the fully automated factory floor that could set up to about 50 devices, key automated guided vehicles that you need within that area, maybe a couple of other key devices, operational technology devices connected there. But that could be it as small as that could be a key factory. But usually you won't see a single factory. Right. If you're thinking one of the major manufacturers, they would deploy private cellular across tens of factories or the whole. They probably start with one just for like the let's see how this goes and then expand which we've seen, we've seen within the past couple of years. Enterprise manufacturers starting with one site ending up with 600, one site ending up with 40. So it really is evolving. But it could be as small as that. Think of airports, for example. They would start out with specific cases of operational OT devices connected to that network. It could start out with about a 20, 50 device case, but then it would go and expand to more and more different devices, different kind of operational devices on that floor. And so even if we're thinking about, let's say how you scale this, right? So you can start with a small network, as small as 50 devices and that could be it if it's a manufacturing floor, but it could also. And then scale would be more factories covered by that, by cellular. Or you start out with a specific amount of devices, not too large, but you add on use cases as you go and adopt the technology successfully to show value. Which we've seen by the way. We've seen this in airports here in the US on the east coast, starting out with a couple tens of devices, ending up with hundreds, if not thousands eventually.
- [17:26]
A
Wow. So yeah, wow, that's fascinating. We talked a little bit about like, you know, kind of how do you build out for the non expert and we talked a little bit about the, the different like, you know, chain of influencers or the, the customers themselves at a basic level. You kind of touched on it a lot. I mean I think you, you, you shared a little bit about ideal customer Personas and who influences that buying decision. Can you maybe talk a little bit more about that and like, you know, what other, what other aspects do you use as those triggers and what do you look for in Those influencers that help determine the decision.
- [18:06]
B
So when we think through the, let's say, the ideal customer Persona or the key influencers, it, it does depend, it does change a little bit per, let's say industry. So if you're going for your own fully set up, end to end network with a private core and your own ran your own antennas, you'll probably invest also in an expert in private cellular to run and manage that whole network and architect it. Right. So you'd have a network architect or a director of, Director of LTE or Director of Private 5G within your enterprise that is dedicated to this. And that is the ideal Persona, right? Somebody who has their own budget, their end to end responsibility for the core team to, for the, for the network, a team to perhaps manage it. That is the key, let's say, Persona that you'd look for. But in smaller enterprises, we're thinking about that Factory with the 50 devices, they probably not go and invest in hiring their own cellular expert in house to do the whole thing end to end. In that case, what they do is usually have a system integrator come in, help them build that network, help them architect it, design it, but within the enterprise. And then of course, we need to know and work with the system integrators. And that would be not necessarily the Persona on the end customer, but still the partner that we would need to focus and work with on the end customer. Those would be maybe traditional IT or network architects that are more of the IP side of the domain, not cellular, but still, still definitely the people that are running the network. If we're thinking like second circle of influence there we're going to be looking at the device owners, the people that actually manage the devices and are responsible for the end device connected to the network. Those are on their own, a whole kind of team. Especially in larger enterprises, but still, even in smaller enterprises, there are people that are in charge of the device itself and those are the people that would have to be responsible for connecting that device to the cellular network, for the SIM cards involved, for the device itself and securing it. Those are additional Personas that if they have their own budget, amazing. Sometimes they do. But most of the cases there'll be an influencer within this decision. And if we step a step further, of course security teams have to be involved. They're a major influencer. It can go all the way up to the CISO or it can be within a committee there. But in a lot of cases, the security teams are either leading this, which we've seen in many manufacturers, we've actually had a manufacturer that has about 40 different private cellular networks, 40 different factories covered with private cellular. And security has made the decision to not roll out any factory floor operationally if it's not secure. Right. If it's not. If you want to roll out a private cellular network for this specific factory, it has to be secured specifically in that case with one layer. But just generally, if you're thinking through this, it shows how important that influence is. Right. They can be a go, no go for a network setup. So if we're involved with the security team from the get go, then you can help, let's say unblock those potential blockers or even rolling out a network. So those are key influences within the decision and many times they also hold their own budgets to be able to buy the solution.
- [21:28]
A
Yeah, absolutely fascinating. Yeah. The obviously the testing theme of the pod is huge and we, you know, we, we lean into that and there's, there's so many learnings that come of it. Can you share a little bit about some of the test and learn experiences you've, you've had and maybe some that are notable that the audience might find interesting. Like I'm curious to hear more about some of the things you've experienced there,
- [21:51]
B
there, there are different aha moments that can happen along. Maybe I'll use something that's not from my recent role, rather from a previous one. I was part of a company a couple of years ago called Gardacor. It was eventually sold to Akamai for 600 million. Was a great exit, a great, I'd say great experience. It's absolutely amazing, really absolutely amazing. And I call it the best school for startups. Right. We've seen it all, we've pivoted, we've invested in the right and the wrong places to eventually come to great success. So really a wonderful journey there. And there was a key aha moment that happened in a customer conversation. There we were selling into a specific security market. That isn't where we ended up. We ended up in segmentation. We were early on in deception in a specific market. That's called deception back then. And we were already selling for a few million dollars. We had nice ARR, but the general feeling is was that market is probably capped. There's just that far that you can go in that specific security market. And we sat down with customers who were really appreciative in using the solution in their day to day. And what we had was a map, a visual map of how everything is communicating in the network and one of our customers literally sat there and looked at this map and was like, that line shouldn't be there. These two servers, they shouldn't be communicating with each other. Why is that line there? Can I just click this and prevent that from happening? And that is this amazing aha moment that literally shifted the company into a segmentation market where we're saying we have this tool, this amazing visibility tool that comes with all these security layers. And what our customer really, really wants is to govern what they're seeing. They need the information to understand what's actually communicating and they need the ability to shut it down. What does that call? How much is that worth? That takes you down a whole new route. And we ended up in micro segmentation from there, which was an amazing moment and brought the company to that amazing success to eventually actually lead that category by the way of micro segmentation and become the leader post the appoint purchase. Yes, it was amazing. So definitely the most amazing aha moment within a journey. And yeah, that goes to teach, by the way, how important it is to listen to customers.
- [24:11]
A
There it is. Yeah, that's the. You stumbled across this basically gold mine through listening to customers.
- [24:17]
B
Yeah, exactly so. And the more people listen, the more, the more probability there will be for detecting those different aha moments because they can be very subtle.
- [24:27]
A
I love that there's been some good ones like that shared on this really cool stories from the past and that you learn from and that you, you aim to, you know, repeat and advise people on. Obviously, you know, partner led growth is something we live and live and breathe and we work extensively on, on it with brands in SaaS world and in, in our, in our consumer world a bit. You're taking that on. It's a big motion for, for you and you look at partnerships, how are you thinking about partner led growth?
- [25:02]
B
So maybe I'll start with my, my mantra. Okay. I think a lot of early stage companies or a lot of companies tend to think of partners as every partner should generate pipeline. And I think that that is a little bit crippling for an organization to think that way because not every partner is designed to do that. What I my approach to partnerships is to be strategic about the goal that you have with each partner that you're working with. Some could be just to generate awareness and then that's where you invest with that specific partner. Some could be to create your moat. Right. Once I'm running in a customer environment, I integrate with that specific partner, for example, right. I work, I get to a position where it's harder to take my solution out because I'm part of that operational process. Right. With a technology partner, for example. So you could do technology moats as a key area with a partner. Another one could very, very specifically be for pipeline. You can say these are system integrators. Their goal for me is to help me generate my pipeline. I will help educate them on the best ways to set up networks. We will build the architecture together as to what that needs to include. And then their goal for me is to generate pipeline, but not necessarily and be there if a customer asks them for us kind of thing. Right. Or even influence that decision within that. And last but not least, it's advocacy. So partners could be just like a customer, the most amazing voice for you. Right. So if we're thinking, let's go back to our original buyer journey, right. If we go back to our original buyer journey and you're thinking through that during that spectrum choice phase, if you already have customer, a partner influencing that decision, being your advocate at that stage already as to why you need to introduce security early on in the process, as early on as spectrum choice, then you are already influencing the full journey of a customer there. So they could just like any customer, they could be key influence. So if you're thinking about these four, right. Or these, and they're more. By the way, I'm throwing in my top four categories for partners. There are more there. But if you're strategic about each partner and their role for you, but you also are attentive enough to understand what they need out of this. Right. What can they gain then it's a mutual partnership and you're both mutually aligned. And then from there everything becomes really smooth sailing. If you think through core vendor partnerships with us, right, we enhance their offering, we can give them a competitive advantage, for example, versus others in this domain. If they bundle in security within their original offer. Right. That could be their incentive. Well, my incentive is to join the funnel as early as possible. So there's very different ways to look at different partnerships and be able to then map them accurately into what will eventually lead to your best success. And I wouldn't treat all partnerships equally, I think, or give them the whole same goal. And by the way, from that you actually measure them differently. If it's an awareness partner, they have their own metrics of what success looks like. If it's a pipeline partner, then it's down to revenue. If it's. Yeah. So each one needs to have their clear role. They might have several roles by the way, but each one can have a clear role and then you're able to actively measure them successfully.
- [28:22]
A
I love there's so many like, you know, fun aspects of partner partnerships, partner led growth, and I mentioned this in a little bit, but there's like the economics, there's the incentives, there's the psychology and I think, you know, like some of the other mantras that we've talked about, you know, some of them sound easy, but truly putting yourself into the how does this benefit the partner? What are their concerns, challenges, reasons for being, points of their journey? Like, it's just a great call out and I appreciate the thinking around it. It's so important.
- [29:01]
B
Yeah, I can throw in an example there where when we know what our partner is measured on for the next year, five years, and then we build our motion to align with that goal. So let's say we have a partner that has a portfolio of different products, but they're banking on one of those products to be the major revenue source. If we are able to contribute to that effectively.
- [29:28]
A
Right.
- [29:28]
B
And amplify that for them and still get what we need, then that's a mutually beneficial partnership and everybody will, will win and everybody has the incentive to invest in it. Right. Because a lot of the times it can end on paperwork. It's just, let's put this in writing. But then nothing really happens. You put a logo on a slide and then it doesn't actually end up taking you anywhere. But if you're able to understand your partner goals and really understand what they're being measured on, and then build your emotion with your goals in mind, but map that to that incentive, then they will have the incentive to invest in it as well and everybody will be, will be able to benefit from it.
- [30:07]
A
Yeah, I love that. For people who are less familiar in the cyber security world and the IT world, what are some understandings that like this is the risk out there for you and how likely is that risk and what can without, you know, scaring the heck out of people, maybe scare them a little bit. What, what is it out there that they should be aware of to be like, hey, one layer protects you against these, these bad things. I'm just curious for folks that are really not as familiar and kind of just understand what it is?
- [30:38]
B
Sure. So first I'll start with the network is a network. Doesn't matter what infrastructure it's running. If it's IP or cellular, it's a network and it's running your key elements that need to be run on that network. That are part of your enterprise and are possibly key to your operations. In most cases, you have to secure it. There's just no question about it. Right? That's the basics. Today you won't roll out a new network without setting your specific safeguards in place. Especially if you're going to run a factory floor fully automated on it, or if you're going to be securing a grid, whatever it is, you'll need to be able to set some sense of security to that. So that's way before everything else. And I don't think anybody will disagree with that assumption in today's world. Now, if we're thinking cellular specific, what's unique to it is a few things. One, it's completely new technology for enterprise. They really aren't familiar with it. There are whole new elements that are introduced into a private cellular network that create a knowledge gap. There's SIM cards. And a SIM card is not a device. It's an element that helps you connect devices to your network. And in most cases today, devices are not cellular ready. So you'll need an adapter. If you think of that automated guided vehicle, it will have a cellular router on it. Because the automated guided vehicle is not cellular ready. It needs an adapter to connect. So if we're thinking about it from the enterprise perspective or in the cellular network perspective, the network will see up to what the SIM card is connected to. But if that SIM card is in a router, what's behind it? Is anybody changing a device behind it, which we've seen by the way, in a port, a contractor went out into the field and literally removed a device from behind one of the routers to connect their own laptop so that they have connectivity. That's a contractor. It's an insider threat still, but it happens. If you don't know what's happening, if you don't know that that happen, how can you possibly take action on it? So that's one element, for example. Other is just any traditional kind of security threat. When somebody is in, they can move laterally within your network. They can reach your crown jewels in your data center because these networks are connected. So you need to be able to be aware of what's happening. You need visibility, you need control. But if we add another layer to it, it's the cellular specific layer, which is there are cellular threats. Just like there are IP attacks, there are cellular attacks. And you need to be aware of them and you need to be able to detect them and safeguard against them. So it's not to scare anybody. Or deter. I don't think today anybody is deterred by security being an element when setting up a new network somewhere or other. They just know that there needs to be security within that, within that setup so that they can use the network effectively. It's just cellular unique. You need to be able to protect against those specific thefts.
- [33:28]
A
Yeah, exactly, exactly. You've obviously had a wealth of experience when it comes to product, when it comes to marketing, when it comes to partner. What advice do you have for builders of those arenas and those that are trying to get into it, those that are trying to advance their career. What, what things can you share that would help them based on your sage words of wisdom?
- [33:51]
B
For those trying to enter the cellular domain or for anybody building their own
- [33:54]
A
status, I think more, you know there's been a lot of. You've had a lot of experience in you know like product building and marketing and partners. Maybe, maybe not hitting all those but what's the greatest hit that you want to share with people just wanting to learn from your experience.
- [34:11]
B
I'd say remember that a company is a team and it's a good success as an enterprise or as a team looks is actually possible when you're able to share and execute on joint information effectively. So whatever information is coming your end from a customer, from a partner, make sure that it's reaching all the relevant people within the broader team, not just your own team, the whole company and then have that as fast as possible translate into action as a startup because what you want to do is be able to take action and if you need pivot very fast. But the if you're stale in use in translating information that you get from the field into action, that slows down everybody so or and that slows down the company. So the faster we can operationalize the information the better you are at executing, adjusting if there are mistakes and eventually reaching your goal.
- [35:04]
A
Yeah, I love that like mental agility is interest. It's fascinating. So many good avi. There's so many good learnings, so many good experiences appreciate you you know taking us into a field that is not as aware of and you're still doing some really foundational principles of product, of building, of marketing, of, of partner led growth. So it's appreciated. Give us a little. So kind of winding it down here into some of the wrap up and the personal. You obviously shared your artist background which I am blown away by. I will have to look up and see do you have any readings or book recommendations for folks that want to nerd out further or just a good one that you'd suggest for people in the book category?
- [35:50]
B
Yeah, sure. I think my classic, which I read several times, is Shogun Good Literature.
- [35:56]
A
Oh, yes, yes, that is. I so appreciate that. I have heard that in the last year. It's popped up a couple times. So hearing from you, I'm. I'm now curious. I might have to. I might have to bump it up my list a little bit. Any. Any dream trips coming up or summer plans or maybe like a trip memory that you recall that you want to share that you. You suggest or you've had a good experience with?
- [36:25]
B
I have. The place that I need to go to is Kanye Crusales. And in Colombia, it's called the five Colored River. There's specific two months a year where it's lit up by all these different plants. And literally it's like, spectacular and completely. I'd say maybe a little bit psychedelic, probably. So it's have that going mind and hopefully soon with the family.
- [36:52]
A
I love that. That's amazing. That question just keeps getting better. The last time I asked it, I was floored by the response. And then today, I think you may have topped it with that. I like. I'm like, what I didn't know existed. Google it.
- [37:08]
B
Look what that looks like. It looks amazing.
- [37:10]
A
Yeah, I will. I will. Avi, this has been so fun. Thank you for taking the time. If people want to reach out, learn more, what's the best way for them to do that?
- [37:22]
B
Definitely LinkedIn.
- [37:23]
A
We're hoping to see you again here maybe one day or maybe in Boston. And thank you so much for coming on.
- [37:29]
B
Same. Thank you for having me.