Podcast Summary: Always Be Testing #106

Episode Title: Why 70% of Brands Are Undervaluing Affiliate Marketing
Host: Tye DeGrange
Guest: Michael Cole, SVP of Marketing at Everflow
Date: October 28, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode delves into the undervalued world of affiliate marketing and its pivotal role in growth, customer acquisition, and future-proofing marketing efforts. Host Tye DeGrange and Michael Cole discuss why most brands fail to maximize affiliate’s full value, the evolving landscape with AI and measurement, and actionable strategies for brands wanting to harness affiliate and partner marketing more effectively.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. State of Affiliate and Performance Marketing

• Economic Uncertainty & Resilience
  • Amid economic ups and downs, affiliate and performance marketing remain robust channels.
  • Companies are slower to make decisions but are still investing:
    “They’re taking it slower, but they’re still moving forward… things are fine.” (Michael Cole, 01:59)
• AI Bubble on the Horizon
  • Massive investment in AI could lead to a market correction, but for now, growth continues:
    “...we will almost certainly have a bubble pop within the next year on the AI side… just because the entire economy is being propped up by so much money flowing into these AI companies...”
    (Michael Cole, 02:42)

2. What Is Everflow? (Affiliate/Partner Marketing Platform)

• Platform Flexibility & Control
  • Brands can layer Everflow on top of existing setups for better tracking, event management, and direct partner relationships:
    “You can always add us on top of anything you’re already doing… and leverage our tracking and analytics.” (Michael Cole, 03:55)
• Power for Complex Customer Journeys
  • Particularly valuable for industries with complex events (insurance, finance) and for tracking post-conversion activity (renewals, upsells, repeat purchases).

3. Why Affiliate Is Undervalued (70% of Brands Get It Wrong!)

• Under-Resourcing & Misunderstanding
  • Brands often have small teams managing massive revenue streams, which would be "unthinkable" in other departments:
    “Most large brands have two to four affiliate managers… They might be paying out $100 million. No other division making that much revenue would be so understaffed.” (Michael Cole, 07:03)
• Limited Measurement Focus
  • Most brands focus only on immediate conversions, missing long-term value from affiliates (e.g., repeat customers, downticket behaviors).
• Top-of-Funnel Blindspot
  • Affiliates drive discovery and awareness—new user actions should be recognized and rewarded to grow the channel and credit its role properly.

4. Evolving Measurement & Attribution

• Attribution is Inherently Messy
  • True customer journeys have many touchpoints; it’s impossible to be perfect, but brands should focus credit where it fuels long-term value:
    “A true customer is often driven by like 28 points of influence… the answer is like, everyone had some influence. Who do you want to get credit so they can scale their promotions and do more?” (Michael Cole, 10:59)
• Feedback Loops & Transparency
  • Giving affiliates detailed info on what’s working and what isn’t—specific placements, quality of leads—unlocks better performance for all.
• Compensation Drives Growth
  • “The more you pay affiliates, the more they’ll scale.” Accurate measurement allows higher payouts for high-performing partners. (23:31)

5. Non-Traditional & Emerging Affiliate Opportunities

• Beyond Coupons & Loyalty
  • Nontraditional partners (influencers, referral/ambassador programs, tech integrations) expand opportunity but require internal or agency resources to execute:
    “It just doesn’t matter how big your brand is. If you create an affiliate program and never accept any affiliate… it will not work.” (Michael Cole, 12:39)
• Micro-communities, Audio, Newsletters
  • The breadth of modern affiliate is vast, covering communities like Reddit, Substack, and niche influencers.

6. Trust: Affiliate’s Superpower

• Third-Party Validation
  • Affiliates and publishers bridge the trust gap, making affiliate a foundation for building credibility:
    “We need those third parties to really tout brands… third parties are great mechanisms to build that trust.” (Tye DeGrange, 15:41)

7. AI, LLMs, and the New Discovery Paradigm

• Affiliate-as-Discovery in the Age of ChatGPT
  • LLMs cite affiliate and publisher content for answers. Being present (with correct, positive sentiment) in citations is now crucial.
  • “If you’re not mentioned in the citations, you’re not going to be part of that answer.”
    (Michael Cole, 20:36)
• Sentiment & Accuracy Matter
  • How affiliates and reviewers talk about your brand influences how AI presents you; controlling the narrative is vital.

8. Future-Proofing and Leadership Buy-in

• Affiliate Should Be at the Table
  • Increasing data sophistication, attribution, and AI integration make this the time for affiliate to claim a seat with C-level decision-makers:
    “Now’s a really good time… for affiliate to come from a position of strength and have a seat at the table as you’ve alluded to.” (Tye DeGrange, 22:25)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Affiliate’s ROI:
  “You’re only spending 10% of what you make. That’s an incredible channel.”
  (Michael Cole, 06:43)

• On Resource Gaps:
  “No other division making that much revenue would be so understaffed.”
  (Michael Cole, 07:11)

• On Attribution Reality:
  “…a true customer is often driven by like 28 points of influence.”
  (Michael Cole, 10:45)

• On AI Discoverability:
  “If you’re not mentioning the citations, you’re not going to be part of that answer.”
  (Michael Cole, 20:27)

• On the Magic of Collaboration:
  “Some of the most magic conversations I’ve had in my career have been where you can get a publisher, a good partner to really… give you so much to work with.”
  (Tye DeGrange, 25:10)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:59] - Current state of affiliate and brand strategies in a shifting economy
• [03:46] - What is Everflow and how does it add value?
• [06:25] - Why is affiliate constantly undervalued?
• [10:42] - The realities and value of attribution
• [12:26] - The importance of resources and agency partnerships for affiliate
• [16:30] - Trust as a core advantage of affiliate marketing
• [18:50] - The emerging role of AI and LLMs in discovery, and affiliate’s place in it
• [23:23] - How better attribution allows bigger, smarter payouts and growth
• [26:07] - Favorite software tool: PromptWatch for citation and LLM monitoring
• [27:31] - Long-lasting consumer tech pick: The iPad
• [28:30] - Fun fact: Growing up in Yosemite and family history in early video game design
• [29:37] - Podcast recommendation: 99% Invisible
• [30:50] - Where to learn more about Michael and Everflow

Recommendations & Fun Extras

• Tool: PromptWatch.com for LLM prompt/citation monitoring (26:07)
• Consumer Product: iPad for longevity and practicality (27:31)
• Podcast: 99% Invisible for design/architecture insights (29:37)

Connect with Michael Cole

• Everflow: everflow.io
• LinkedIn: Search "Michael Cole Everflow" for easiest connection

Takeaways for Listeners

• Invest in affiliate with eyes wide open: Staff it properly, measure more than last-click, and recognize its value for both awareness and loyalty.
• Make data and feedback loops central: Empower partners with detailed performance feedback and reward long-term value.
• Stay discovery-ready in the age of AI: Your affiliate presence and reputation will shape how AI platforms present your brand.
• Don’t fear the future—affiliate is the bridge: Between trusted third-party validation and where search and discovery are going next.

For marketers and growth leaders, this episode is a masterclass in why and how to stop undervaluing affiliate—and how to ride the next wave as AI disrupts digital discovery.