Always Be Testing Podcast – Episode #107

"Why Most Product Teams Miss What Customers Really Need"

Host: Tye DeGrange
Guest: Amro Naddy (Former Head of 360 Reviews, US News & World Report)
Date: November 4, 2025

Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, Tye DeGrange welcomes Amro Naddy to dig deep into the realities of building, scaling, and operating data-driven review products at US News & World Report. The conversation ranges from the unique growth phases of a business to the ethical and operational challenges of review platforms, the evolving landscape of AI and user trust, and the future of publisher monetization. Amro brings nearly two decades of e-commerce and media experience, sharing candid stories and practical advice for navigating growth and maintaining integrity in product teams.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The US News 360 Reviews Journey: From Concept to Scale

• Three Phases of Growth (03:09–04:02)
  • Startup Phase (0-to-1): Ideation, scrappy experimentation, and initial traction.
  • Growth Phase (1-to-10): Expanding team, processes, and scaling operations.
  • Portfolio/Maturity Phase (Multiple 10s): Managing a collection of businesses, more “surfing than paddling.”
• Personal Lessons
  • Amro shares vulnerability about struggling with “the messy middle”—transitioning from hands-on management to letting managers manage (04:43–06:54).
  • Quote: “The phase I sucked at the worst was the sort of one to ten phase… it’s the middle school of your sort of business education.” – Amro Naddy (04:43)

2. Balancing Editorial Integrity and Commercial Realities

• Editorial vs. Business Wall (11:00–16:32)
  • Outlines US News' strict protocols to maintain editorial independence from business objectives.
  • Quote: “Editorial independence... there is a rule. This is that rule. I think editorial independence is kind of the latter camp. It’s like there’s a bright line and you just don’t.” – Amro Naddy (11:31)
  • Integrity Tax: Sacrificing some short-term profit to preserve long-term trust.
  • Quote: “You pay an integrity tax where sometimes... a credible national brand is an advertiser... and they might be [angry] if they're ranked eighth. But... I’ll pay that tax all day long because you have a reputable brand and a reputable commitment to the consumer.” – Amro Naddy (15:35)

3. Case Study: The Perils of Pay-to-Play Review Sites

• Shares the infamous Sleepopolis/Casper mattress saga as a lesson in how easily trust can be compromised in review ecosystems (17:37–21:41).
  • Quote: “There’s a real cleanup that’s needed in the online review space… the temptation to not pay that integrity tax and just do these pay-to-play or corrupt kind of dynamics, it can be a very strong temptation for a small business.” – Amro Naddy (20:25)

4. The Trust Gap and Data-Driven Reviews

• Discusses the growing skepticism among consumers toward online reviews, the importance of transparent methodologies, and the unique value of data-driven, expert-led reviews versus pure user-generated content (21:41–27:21).
  • Quote: “The work that U.S. News and other publishers were doing was not a wisdom-of-the-crowds approach. It was a centrally sort of expertise-driven approach…” – Amro Naddy (25:20)

5. AI, LLMs, and the Future of Search and Publishing

• Impact of AI and ChatGPT on Discovery (28:49–29:35)
  • Rising importance of optimizing for AI results.
  • Shift in traffic sources from Google to AI platforms.
• Publisher Monetization Dilemma (29:35–36:31)
  • The “scrape vs. value” problem: LLMs ingest content with little or no attribution or compensation for publishers.
  • Exploring pay-to-scrape, micro-payments, and models like Perplexity or Stacker.
  • Quote: “I think there’s this fundamental... exchange problem where the incentive for publishers... to go invest in localizing a bunch of industry data... you’re just going to suck up that data and present it to the user with no attribution, no pay.” – Amro Naddy (30:25)

6. Will AI Platforms Become More Open?

• Prognosis for the Industry (41:04–45:41)
  • Draws a parallel between today’s AI platforms and the early, closed-walled AOL/Yahoo model that Google disrupted.
  • Predicts platforms (like ChatGPT) will open up to more ad-based and competitive models, echoing Google’s auction-driven approach.
  • Quote: “What I see is a more open OpenAI would be one that allows ads and allows multiple people to compete for the organic result and paid results, similar to Google...” – Amro Naddy (44:42)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Organizational Growth:
  • “I think we naturally gravitate towards enjoying the things we’re good at. …When you have a good ride going zero to one, it’s awesome. Every day is learning, it’s big growth, it’s great.” – Amro Naddy (06:56)
• On Mission-Driven Product Development:
  • “Some things aren’t for sale. And I think that notion that you said of integrity tax... that’s a really smart learning.” – Tye DeGrange (17:27)
• On the Skeptical Consumer:
  • “We live in this trust gap era where consumers, rightfully so, are pretty skeptical. ...It’s really important to highlight those things that we are doing that is authentic, real, validated...” – Tye DeGrange (21:41)
• On AI’s Impact:
  • “I’m a little bit more, I’m more than a little bit skeptical that you can just apply killer math to a crapload of UGC and come up with just the right answer…” – Amro Naddy (25:08)
• On Staying Adaptable:
  • “Stay empirical, stay learning. ...regardless of what level you are in your career, what stage... it's so important to be a lifelong learner and keep learning and keep being adaptive and resilient and just going where your learnings take you.” – Amro Naddy (47:37, 49:02)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• US News 360 Reviews Backstory: 01:09–04:02
• Startup, Growth, and Maturity Phases: 03:09–06:54
• Editorial vs. Business Wall, Integrity Tax: 11:00–16:35
• Sleepopolis/Casper Ethical Case Study: 17:37–21:41
• The Distrust Era & Data-Driven Approaches: 21:41–27:21
• Rise of AI, LLMs, and Threats to Publishers: 28:49–36:31
• Micropayments, Perplexity, and the Monetization Debate: 36:31–39:37
• OpenAI/ChatGPT – Future of Search, Ads, and Internet Openness: 41:04–45:41
• Closing: Lifelong Learning and Resilience: 47:36–49:02
• Personal: Family Adventures & Horseback Riding: 49:37–51:49

Tone & Style

The conversation is candid, insightful, and full of lived experience—mixing an analytical approach with humor, humility, and practical advice. There’s a clear appreciation for data-driven rigor, authenticity, and a willingness to challenge assumptions on both the business and tech sides.

Conclusion

This episode is a goldmine for product leaders, marketers, and anyone working at the intersection of growth, content, and technology. Amro Naddy’s reflections provide pragmatic guidance for building trustworthy products, navigating organizational growth, and anticipating monumental shifts in how information is valued and found online. If you want to stay relevant in a rapidly changing digital landscape—“stay empirical, stay learning.”

Connect with Amro Naddy:
Best place: LinkedIn

Host: Tye DeGrange — Always Be Testing Podcast