Podcast Summary: Always Be Testing #111

Episode Title: Why 3 Common Leadership Habits Are Killing Your Growth
Host: Tye DeGrange
Guest: Jen Goodwin
Date: December 2, 2025

Overview

In this episode, Tye DeGrange is joined by Jen Goodwin to discuss evolution in the affiliate and performance marketing space, with a special focus on leadership habits that hinder growth. The conversation dives into Jen's work with publishers, the importance of adaptability (especially regarding AI), the value of relationships versus transactional partnerships, and practical learnings from working with both startups and enterprise clients. Jen also teases the launch of her agency’s new AI-driven platform and shares personal anecdotes about resilience, career pivots, and even her college days in a rock band.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Shifting Landscape in Affiliate & Publisher Support

• Different Needs, Different Clients:

  • High Energy works flexibly with both enterprise publishers (e.g., Western Union, PayPal, Forbes Vetted) and startups (e.g., dupe.com).
  • "It's definitely not a one size fits all. ...Western Union...never been in the...affiliate space...so they came to us to help them...understand the affiliate space, how to navigate it, introducing them to all the right players." (05:00, Jen)

• Rebrand and Platform Launch:

  • Jen reveals High Energy’s upcoming relaunch as "High Energy AI," focusing on their new affiliate intelligence platform, Rocket.
  • The platform aggregates affiliate network APIs, automating application, rejection tracking, commission management, and business development tasks for both publishers and agencies.

2. The Impact of AI and Embracing Change

• Testing and Adaptability:

  • Jen stresses that survival in the current climate means being able to pivot, test, and lean into discomfort, especially with rapid AI development.
  • “Everyone just needs to be good at pivoting and getting comfortable being uncomfortable.” (07:10, Jen)

• Platform as a Force Multiplier:

  • Jen highlights how AI tools are automating manual, time-consuming work, freeing teams to focus on strategy and relationship-building.
  • "Now we get to do the stuff that you love most...drive the relationship, do strategy...And it's really handing off the really data crunching stuff." (17:45, Jen)

3. Relationships Over Transactions

• Sales Isn’t Just Sales:

  • Jen contends that, while all work has an element of sales, focusing on relationships and mutual trust is what differentiates enduring partnerships.
  • “I do look at it—I’ve always looked at it—as a relationship...and what they're looking for and then being able to deliver on it and get their trust.” (14:10, Jen)

• Industry Resilience Through Human Connection:

  • Despite AI’s rise, both Tye and Jen agree that the distinctive, human side of affiliate partnerships gives the industry staying power.
  • "The human element isn’t going away." (16:16, Tye)

4. Learnings from Working with Publishers

• Every Client is Unique:

  • Jen’s biggest 2025 lesson: no company or client is the same; all will encounter unique roadblocks.
  • "You cannot be prepared enough...Everyone has their own roadblocks. It’s just gonna happen." (23:39, Jen)

• Turning Away the Misfit Client:

  • Jen recounts saying no to overfunded but unfocused startups, prioritizing authenticity and fit over a quick buck.
  • “If you want out, you have 30 days to get out. We're not going to trap people to make them miserable.” (20:04, Jen)

5. Counseling Leadership & Teams

• Don’t Panic—Problem-Solve:
  • Jen invokes her father’s wisdom: “Nothing can’t be solved. Nothing is that big of a deal that you can't fix it.” (24:10, Jen)
• Encouraging Experimentation and Continuous Learning:
  • Both urge leaders to “lean in”—regardless of discomfort or fear—especially with AI adoption.
  • "Don't be afraid...If you don't do it, you will be left behind eventually." (27:42, Jen)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Everyone just needs to be good at pivoting and getting comfortable, being uncomfortable. Right. We don't know what it looks like, the future looks like.” (07:10, Jen)
• “I do look at it as a relationship...you're not just there for the money, you're there to help them, to work closely, to actually bounce ideas.” (14:10, Jen)
• “To me, the relationships, hands down, are the most important. That's being transparent and honest—even telling people the things they don't want to hear.” (15:55, Jen)
• “Now we get to do the stuff you love most...do the strategy and come up with these brilliant ideas...and it's really handing off the really data crunching stuff that we've all been doing.” (17:45, Jen)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [05:00] High Energy's differentiated support for publishers and clients
• [10:14] The Rocket platform concept and AI integration
• [13:46] The importance of relationships in partner marketing
• [19:43] Startup lessons: consulting approach and filtering good fits
• [23:31] Biggest 2025 lesson: every client and challenge is unique
• [25:31] Counseling legacy publishers on embracing AI
• [27:55] Advice for staying relevant: lean into AI, don’t stand still
• [31:11] Jen’s college band and infamous potato slingshot story (personal anecdote)

Extra: Personal Insights & Fun Facts

• Jen was a vocalist in an alternative rock cover band in college, played frat parties, and survived being hit by a potato shot from a water balloon slingshot. (31:11–32:41)
• Her most recent purchase: a Pilates box from Better Me—her new go-to for home workouts. (30:09)

Conclusion

This episode with Jen Goodwin is a crash course in the evolving world of affiliate and performance marketing leadership—reinforcing the necessity of adaptability, transparent relationships, and a willingness to test and learn, especially in the face of AI-driven transformation. Jen’s candid storytelling, industry humility, and actionable advice make this a must-listen for marketers and leaders alike.

To watch for updates on High Energy AI:
Check out their website (soon relaunching) and stay tuned for Jen’s posts about features for agencies. (34:47–35:26)